Water bypass diagram?

[H8Monday]

At the end of last season i found water in the oil of my FRESH rebuild. Not alot of water, but the milkshake crap in the valve covers.

I run a Berk 12JG. The water goes from the pump fitting direct to the motor. I'm certain that the pump is overpressuring the block, gaskets etc. I'd like to limit the block pressure.

I've read about bypass valves, waterdumps, regulators etc. I get the idea, limit the water pressure in the block to 12-13psi, like the gaskets were designed for. But How? I can't quite get my head around it, and I'm not sure of the parts that are avail.

Can someone point me in the directioin of a plumbing diagram? and suggest some parts? I'm not a retard, and simple line drawing would be fine.

I'm running a big Ford with standard log style manifold through the transom.

regards -Todd-

[H8Monday]

Forensic, I tried the gate valve thing before the rebuild. I was getting good water temps at off idle speeds (plane) but getting creeping temps at extended idles, ie; the channel, and other long wakeless areas.

I messed with the adjustment of it a bit, but if I opened it enough to keep it cool during extended idles, then the dreaded milkshake showed up. I figured it was the age of the motor at that point and rebuilt it. Now with a new 'tight' motor I am getting the damed water in the oil still. So, I am very interested in strictly limiting pressure while providing as much water flow as possible.
I know... now I AM starting to sound like a retard! ;)

[randyjet]

THE MAIN ISSUE IS PRESSURE AND THE MOST IMPOTANT IS VOLUME. RESTRICTION TO FLOW CREATES PRESSURE SO THE BEST WAY TO GET RID OF PRESSURE IS TO LIMIT THE RESTRICTION AND STILL MAINTAIN THE VOLUME. USE THE REGULATOR BUT RUN A "T" WITH 2 FEEDS TO YOUR WATER IMEDIATLY AND RUN NUMBER 8 LINE ON TWO RUNS ELIMINATE BENDS AND I USE A THERMSTAT TO REG BLOCK TEMP. IN USING THE THERMASTAT YOU MAINTAIN A MORE CONSTANT TEMP THROUGH ALL ENGINE CYCLES; IDLE THROUGH WOP. USE A SEPERATE RUN FOR HEADERS AND GATE VALVE THIS I HAVE A BANDERLOG TO CONTROL WHEN THE WATER FEEDS FOR HEADERS. THE ENGINE BLOCK DUMPS ARE ALL NO. 10 LINE THIS LOWERS DOWNSTREAM RESTRICTION AND GIVES A QUICK CYCLE WHEN THERMASTAT DUMPS. I USE THIS ON MY 455 OLDS IT NEVER VARIES MORE THAN 10 DEGREES ON ANY DAY IN ANY LAKE OR RIVER. I GET BLOCK TO TEMP IN LESS THAN 5 MINUTES AND THATS WHERE IT STAYS. SEEMS COMLICATED BUT I GOT TIRED OF THE TEMP ISSUES AND THE MILKSHAKE SYNDRONE, OIL CHANGES LOOK LIKE WHAT I PUT IN NOT SOME STRANGE SLUDGY GOO.

[RiverDave]

You know my pops did some research for DCM right before he died..

He found a valve that would open / allow partial flow / close based on exit water temps.. Very simple valve and very cheap.

I'll see if I can find it, or perhaps Danny will post something up?

RD

[randyjet]

THIS IS MY BASIC LAYOUT.

[H8Monday]

Randy, that drawing is exactly what I was looking for... but something has shrunk the text so small, that I can't read it! :swear

[H20MOFO]

FWIW I put a water pres gauge on my intake, and havn't see it get over about 12 psi, and I have no bypass or reg. House of hose has both the gauge and a watts regulator if you decided to go the regulator route. I doubt your getting over 10-15 psi either. If it did this right after the rebuild, I'd be thinkin tword too much cam overlap, or bad gasket/install. Possibly never got the oil temp high enough to burn off condensation. Btw nice to see another"local":skull

[SPECTRALEN]

Are you running a thermostat? A thermostat would sound like more pressure to me.

[H8Monday]

I don't run a tstat

[H20MOFO]

THIS IS MY BASIC LAYOUT.

I can't really read this either H8, but it would appear to have a 4 port thermostat and/or a banderlog setup. Again fwiw if your old motor didn't milkshake from the jet,I doubt that's the cause of what's going on now. Remember the water to the motor isn't coming off the pressure side (bowl) of the jet, it's coming off the suction housing side(before the impeller).

[H8Monday]

Remember the water to the motor isn't coming off the pressure side (bowl) of the jet, it's coming off the suction housing side(before the impeller).

I never stopped to realize that. The water pickup IS in front of the impellor. Since its located up towards the bowl mount, I always thought of it as being on the pressure side (after the impellor) of the pump.

Dammit. My engine oil has water in it, because my pump sucks!

[Oldsquirt]

I never stopped to realize that. The water pickup IS in front of the impellor. Since its located up towards the bowl mount, I always thought of it as being on the pressure side (after the impellor) of the pump.



The water supply from pump to motor comes from the PRESSURE side of pump, NOT THE SUCTION side.

[H20MOFO]

Hmmmm I read something to the contrary the other day on Brads site. Mine appears to come off my berk just behind the wear ring(suction side). I'm surprised I hit 60 mph with 12psi(bowl pressure), I did have the gate valve 1/3 or so shut. I'd still think I'd have a hell of a lot more pressure than 10 or 15 lbs???? O.k. Tom where are ya at.lol

[Oldsquirt]

Kreg, unfortunately, there seems to be a little too much misinformation on Brad's site that doesn't get caught.

Here's a pic of a suction housing, clearly showing the water port adjacent to the rear of the wear ring. That definitely puts it on the pressure side of the pump. If it were ahead of the wear ring it would be on the suction side.

http://www.hotboatpics.com/pics/data/500/36331636intake_housing.jpg

[Oldsquirt]

I'm surprised I hit 60 mph with 12psi(bowl pressure), I did have the gate valve 1/3 or so shut. I'd still think I'd have a hell of a lot more pressure than 10 or 15 lbs???? O.k. Tom where are ya at.lol


If that 12 psi was measured somewhere other than on the bowl itself, it is not "bowl pressure". Pressure measured on the engine, or it's plumbing, will reflect whatever restriction to flow that is seen between pump and gauge. That would include gate/ball valve as well as hose size of inlet/outlet going to and from engine.

[H8Monday]

So, I've been imagining a regulator/t-valve looking affair. Full pump pressure into one inlet, 12 psi, full flow out one outlet, to feed the cooling system. Anything +12psi goes out the other outlet to a dump. Does this part exist?

[H20MOFO]

Thanks for setting me straight Oldsquirt, after I read that on brads site, I was scratching my head trying to figure out why I had water coming out of my dump line while the boat was still on the trailer. I still fell that a pres gauge would shed some light for him. Just out of curiosity Oldsquirt do you run a bypass/and or a regulator??? H8 is your avitar photo shot at Utah lake??? If so I think we need to hook up.:thumbsup

[H8Monday]

H8 is your avitar photo shot at Utah lake??? If so I think we need to hook up.:thumbsup

AF boat harbor.

[Oldsquirt]

Yes, you can purchase a "bypass regulator" setup. They are carried by most pump shops and performance marine suppliers. Two sources that come to mind are Hi-Tech Performance (http://www.hi-techperformance.com/) in the Midwest and Rex Marine (http://www.rexmar.com) in So Cal. I'm sure Tom at Jet Boat Performance carries one as well.

[H8Monday]

Sweet. I'm going that route this season. Thanks Old squirt.

[Oldsquirt]

I still fell that a pres gauge would shed some light for him. Just out of curiosity Oldsquirt do you run a bypass/and or a regulator???

I would definitely measure pressure BEFORE adding a regulator

I don't run either, but then again, I've run without for 20+ years without any problems. With a newer, blueprinted pump I do plan to at least see what kind of pressure the engine is seeing this year. I doubt I'll worry unless I see in excess of 25-30 psi.

[H8Monday]

Well, for anyone else following this thread, Here's the device I was thinking of. Its not as hi-tech looking as I thought it would be, but it appears to function as I had thought.

I was expecting to find a purpose built piece, with a pressure gauge built in. This is simply a cobble of plumbing parts.

http://www.hi-techperformance.com/images/Water_Bypass_Kit_DCP_0726.jpg

[Oldsquirt]

I was expecting to find a purpose built piece, with a pressure gauge built in. This is simply a cobble of plumbing parts.



You want the pressure gauge on the engine, not on the regulator. The length and diameter of the hose between the two can affect actual engine pressure.

There is not enough demand for parts like this to justify manufacturing anything task-specific. The part at Rex is regulator only. You add your own plumbing to make it as simple/complicated as desired.

In going back to your original post, it sounds like you have "condensation" not "water in oil". Sometimes all you need is to add a PCV valve or just try to keep the OIL temp higher. Don't worry so much about temp change between idle and cruise. That is only the OUTLET water temp, not ENGINE operating temp, and will vary since water flow will also vary with engine speed.

[H20MOFO]

AF boat harbor.

Cool, I always go to american fork also, I thought that pile of crete looked familiar,lol Sorry for the near dose of mis-information. Hope to see ya on the pond. We'll have to round up Wolfie and Bilge one of these days.

[H8Monday]

Old squirt, I agree with you and have wondered why so many boats run with no regulator/bypass without problems. I am running the original plumbing config that Hardin marine shipped the boat out with in 1977. As the old engine started to get down on power, and as water began to show up in the oil, I decided to rebuild it. It ran for the better part of last season with no signs of moisture in the oil. Towards the end of the season I had WAY more than just condensation. I have chocolate milk for oil in the dipstick WITH the thick brown foam in the valve covers and the top of the dipstick. I believe that a gasket has failed (an intake I hope, and not a head gasket) and I need to get it repaired and a prevention in place.

[Oldsquirt]

Since you are running a BBF, do not overlook the timing cover gaskets and the timing cover itself.

[jetboatperformance]

Todd , sorry been slammed and got in late here (havent completely read this thread) but I have a few ?? what motor and some details please Love to try to help Thanks Tom

[H20MOFO]

Any progress here H8Mondays? I went to Utah lake yesterday, and was looking at some rooster photos my kid took. I noticed that in most of them my pressure was under 10 psi(full throttle burst ,only going 45ish) Then I looked at the one when I legged her out a little(70ish) and it was over 20psi. Now I'm confused.lol Tom is that normal?, both passes were 5400 rpm,ish?

[jetboatperformance]

Too many Easter eggs Bro call me tommorow (cell) Tom

[ak49er]

I run a 460 with a tunnel ram, and a Pro billet MSD Distributor, supposedly for a Tunnel Ram 460. I ran across this guys site Performancejet.com, go to "tech Talk". He gives a great technical explanation of this ,"Full Block Volume, Regulated Temperature and Pressure conversion.

I followed his instructions and have had excellent results.

Basically I used a Watts Bypass Flow Control Regulator, Watts 5300A, adjustable from 0-100 PSI, with 1/2 NPT. It lifts at 12 PSI and dumps through a stern dump, I have a mechanical guage right on the Intake manifold.

The temperature is regulated by a Marine SS Thermostat, and I drilled two...maybe 3/16" holes in the flap. This allows steam pressure, and air pressure to bypass, so the thermostat won't lift under pressure, but "waits" for temperature.

The thermostat housing now dumps both ports , again through two other stern dumps. Now including the bilge dump, the boat has four dumps running across the stern.