schiada plate adjustment

[Hallett]

Hello Stan I have a question for you about my schiada what is the amount of travel
that my cavitations plates should be able to travel?. I have the large plates I think I
might need to have them re adjusted I will need to move the boat back some
to be able to check them. it seems like I am not making noticeable changes
with my plates. thanks Bob Stanfield.

[RiverDave]

This I hope will be a great thread!

To add some questions.. On a v-bottom boat, do you run the plates perfectly parrallel to the bottom of the hull? So the turnbuckles would be adjusted to make the plate "flat" or do you "pre-bend" the outsides down a little, insides up a little with the turn buckles?



I had read some threads on Hotboat years back about a guy that had a bit of an ill handling flat bottom, someone told him to take in the outside turnbuckles a half a turn and it fixed it.. Kind of blew me away how sensitive it seemed. I'm wondering if it's teh same on the cruisers? Or some tricks to know what's going on, and how to rectify?

RD

[schiadastan]

Hi guys
First of all this is were i start off on a new boat or a used one.
With long plates or standard plates, i like to start off with 1/3 up plate and 2/3 rd down plate . A v-drive has a lot of lift built into them
from the start. Run the boat and then we need to fine adjust them from there, all v-drives well act a little deffernt, pending the style of prop
that you are using and the bottom of the boat, (hook or rocker).
Now i deal with cruiser's not flat bottems. I'm also going to forward this over to Lee, and would like to see Prime and Steton jump in on this
one.
Thanks
Stan

[RiverDave]

Would you run all the turnbuckles "neutral" to the plate? Or do you tend to run the outer turn buckles down and the inners up? Vice versa? If so any reasoning as to why?

I'll make sure Prime and Stenton are on it as well. ;)

RD

[lebel409]

I'm thinking that it depends on the bottom, shaft angle, weight distribution and the amount of prop lift as to what works best with what.

That deal on HB was a specific recommendation on a specific hull.

My boat (the Lebel) has a bit of rocker on one side and a bit of hook in the other...and a big general rocker from the prop strut to the fins.

...so what will work for mine would probably be weird for another...

[Racey]

Really, like Stan says, every boat has it's own handling characteristics, but in the beginning you want to start out with 2 basic things, 1. Stan's 1/3 to 2/3 up to down is a pretty good piece of advice, we usually start with a long straight edge and the plates all the way up, then adjust the turn buckles to give between 1/16" and 1/8" clearance between the trailing edge of the plate and the straight edge. 2. You will also want to drop whichever side is opposite of your prop rotation a little bit to counteract torque and keep the boat riding level. Remember most plates don't move more than 3/8" overall at the tip, it's really pretty incredible how much that slight amount of movement affects ride. This why guys spend thousands blue printing the bottom of the hull before they drill one hole in the boat. All the 100mph

What we have found to work pretty good as well is to give the plates some bow that starts in the center where the plates join as convex, then gull wings out to the tips concave. Attached is an exaggerated illustration of what i mean by this. Keeping the tips down a bit gives chining stability, and the rocker in the center gives a good balance pad for the boat to set on. But like stated above every boat is different, and after a baseline setup like this all you can do is adjust by 'The Feel' which is difficult to describe in text, there are so many factors that you may be trying to solve that it just comes down to trial and error in a lot of ways. Bottom line, You don't know what good feels like until you know what bad does. ;)

The blue is the bottom of the boat and the black would the be the trailing edge of the plate.

I'd also be interested in what Mike at Prime says, he's done many of these boats as well and has a lot of time logged doing this stuff, V-Bottoms as well as Flatties. :thumbsup

[Hallett]

Some great info here guys I need all the help I can get I know nothing about plate adjustment. I know there is a wealth
of knowledge on here thanks for taking the time to share it with us. please keep it coming.

[RiverDave]

Our v-drive section doesn't have all teh chit chat of the other board yet.. but if someone asks a legit question, we have some good people around here that have the answers. :)

Still waiting on Prime's response.

RD

[Prime Marine]

Hey guys sorry about the wait. We are just busy trying to finish a 35 Donzi for a customer today. We will get you a repsonse either later tonight or tomorrow. Thanks for your patience and understanding.

Prime Marine

[Prime Marine]

Hello everyone,
Sorry about the wait. Just been one heck of a busy day. Anyhow as far as how we run em. Usually we start flat off the bottom until we can go out and see how the thing feels. Generally a straight edge off the bottom and the side opposite the prop torque down usually the furthest outside the second one in and sometimes the third. Kinda like this; outside 1 full turn, the second one in a half turn, and then the third maybe a quarter turn (depending on the boat!) Really though youve gotta go run the thing and see what it does. Sometimes it may feel like youve got the plates down to far when really the prop needs to go foward. These things can be tricky animals but youve gotta use your best judgment and stay safe. We also only make one change at a time. Youve gotta know if what you did worked. If you make more than one change youll never know how you fixed it! (Or not!) We find that as Im sure you all know, flatbottoms are way more sensitive to plate adjustments and that top sample would generally be incorrect to start with on a flatty. Belive it or not there is a lot of knowlegeble people out there that have probably tried different scenarios and been there done that. Ask around I still do, and why wouldnt you it'll save you a heck of a lot of time and headache. Anyhow if there are any other questions we would be glad to help. Just ask away!
Mike

[RiverDave]

What do you mean "swap and roll?"

RD

[Racey]

What do you mean "swap and roll?"

RD

Violent Chine walking? possibly making it feel like the boat wants to swap ends?

Im just off the lake and need help here as well. im set @ full neutral, big plates, 22'. It does some pretty crazy stuff @ 85mph. Itr wants to swap and roll. should i put a hook in the plates acording to racey?


22' schiada? what you have to remember is that plates only give you so much adjustment, and there is a lot more to be said with regards to the shape of the bottom (of the boat) than there is to be with the adjustment of the plates. If the bottom hasn't been worked and it's a stock Schiada then it has a ton of hook in it, and at 85mph all the plate compensation in the world will get you little if any results.

But be more specific with the boat and what it's doing and you might find some good advice :thumbsup

[schiadastan]

I'm going to chime in again . I think all the info that has been posted is great. So a littlle more wont hurt. It would help if you let all of us
know that type of horse power you are running (real horse power)
Not what you would like to have. How much gear and what type of
Prop you have on the boat ( 2 blade, 3 blade and size.) I would also
like to know were the water pick ups are and how deep they are.
I feel all the info we have well help us in trying to give you info on your
problems. Also make sure you are wearing your life jackets when you
are out there, things can happen.
Stan

[racerden]

The guys are right, make some baseline afjustments and go from there. However Stan, there are a few "Superman's Cape" things that may help you out.
1. Get the boat off of the trailer bunks and use a 3-4' straight-edge for your baseline neutral. Whatever you do, don't rely on eyesight.
2. During the initial process track every turnbuckle index by writing each one down. I/E: #1 1/2 turn down FN (from neutral), etc. Sounds goofy but it will really help when it comes time to do the in-water adjusting.
3. If you are running any kind of HP w/a 2 blade, it will probably be necessary to dip a corner a bit to counter act the prop wash at higher speeds. LH prop, dip RT side, etc. Be sure to do this in a progressive manner. I/E outside t/buckle 3/4 turn, next inside t/buckle 1/2, next t/buckle 1/4 etc.
Hope it helps
________
LESBIAN FISTING (http://www.fucktube.com/categories/728/fisting/videos/1)

[RiverDave]

Drive Bye check your PM's please. :)

RD

[LV R SCHIADA'S]

:D:D Plates full up and let her air out !!!!!!!!!!!:D:D

[MR. Rvrluvr]

22' schiada? what you have to remember is that plates only give you so much adjustment, and there is a lot more to be said with regards to the shape of the bottom (of the boat) than there is to be with the adjustment of the plates. If the bottom hasn't been worked and it's a stock Schiada then it has a ton of hook in it, and at 85mph all the plate compensation in the world will get you little if any results.

But be more specific with the boat and what it's doing and you might find some good advice :thumbsup

I have a stupid question. Why would Schiada build a boat with a ton of hook? What exactly is hook? Seems like you want a Schiada to be big power and fast, why don't they fix the mold? I don't know much about what you guys are talking about, but I am very interested in learning. I dream to have a big power Schiada 21RC V drive, I have wanted one since I rode in one at the age of 10.

Thanx

[RiverDave]

I have a stupid question. Why would Schiada build a boat with a ton of hook? What exactly is hook? Seems like you want a Schiada to be big power and fast, why don't they fix the mold? I don't know much about what you guys are talking about, but I am very interested in learning. I dream to have a big power Schiada 21RC V drive, I have wanted one since I rode in one at the age of 10.

Thanx

Hook - Is where the bottom of the boat will concave slightly from front to back on what would normally be a flat running surface. That concave brings transom lift.

Rocker - Is where the bottom of the boat will actually protrude a bit from front to back on what again you would think would be a flat surface.

Some boats are designed with hook to help them get on plane faster, ride a little smoother, etc.. (24 Spectra)

Some boats are designed with rocker for a faster top end, but usually at the expense of porpousing or being ridiculously trim sensitive (Nordics of the past)

Even if you bought a boat that was perfectly "straight" boats aren't made of metal.. As they sit on the trailers the bottom of them changes shape. Even humidity / temp changes will change the shape of a boat.. As well change the shape of a mold (from which the boat is made).

I've noticed people saying that all Schiada's need a ton of bottom work, and I've not really said much about it. The fact is, every Schiada rigged by Schiada has a blue printed bottom before it leaves. If it's rigged elsewhere, Schiada offers it as an option. I'd bet there isnt' another boat company out there that blue prints everyone of their boats.

In talking to the guys at Prime Marine, on their ski race boats every couple years or so they'll go through and blue print the bottoms of the boats because they do "move" a little bit.

RD

[MR. Rvrluvr]

thanx, that was very interesting. Schiada builds a beautiful boat, hands down the best on the lake in my book. My favorite is "Marko" (on the boards) red and white one. Seen it at the gas station once...WOW thing is a work of art. Someday I would love to go for a ride in a twin turbo or blown v drive, I rode in a naturally aspirated one when I was a kid and will never forget it. Anyway thanx for the info as this is a great thread:thumbsup

[racerden]

Would you run all the turnbuckles "neutral" to the plate? Or do you tend to run the outer turn buckles down and the inners up? Vice versa? If so any reasoning as to why?

I'll make sure Prime and Stenton are on it as well. ;)

RDStan's dead right RD. Most boats have some hook, all have rotation prop wash, lift etc. After getting the right prop for the INTENDED application, then it's turnbuckle time for the predominent speed the boat will be running. I/E, I dip a corner slightly to compensate higher RPM @ speed...say 4K+ with a skier. I really don't care to much what the attitude of the boat does below it this threshold as long as it's relatively stable and it doesn't gyrate when I lift at speed (w/out a skier).
________
Herbal vaporizer (http://herbalvaporizers.info)

[Marko]

thanx, that was very interesting. Schiada builds a beautiful boat, hands down the best on the lake in my book. My favorite is "Marko" (on the boards) red and white one. Seen it at the gas station once...WOW thing is a work of art. Someday I would love to go for a ride in a twin turbo or blown v drive, I rode in a naturally aspirated one when I was a kid and will never forget it. Anyway thanx for the info as this is a great thread:thumbsup

WOW, thanks for the compliment but I think if you were to see Hallet's or Lynch's boats mine would drop down a few notches on your list but It's still great company! :thumbsup

[RiverDave]

WOW, thanks for the compliment but I think if you were to see Hallet's or Lynch's boats mine would drop down a few notches on your list but It's still great company! :thumbsup

Don't sell yourself short.. Your boat is bad ass, no question.

RD

[MR. Rvrluvr]

WOW, thanks for the compliment but I think if you were to see Hallet's or Lynch's boats mine would drop down a few notches on your list but It's still great company! :thumbsup

Don't sell yourself short.. Your boat is bad ass, no question.

RD

your welcome and I agree with Dave, it is a gorgeous boat!!! :bowdown::bowdown: I am a big fan of red. I saw you last summer (I think) at Terribles in Havi. I have the conquest (Crack Whore) I was drooling all over your boat:boobeyes: and even made a comment, I was trying not to look like a dick :D:D

[Marko]

Thanks again, say hi next time and load up and go for a ride. :thumbsup
You to Dave, Talked to No name tonight, he wants to do a trip after the 4th.. We'll stop and say hello if you guys are around.

[Shark242]

Could somebody explain the reasoning for setting the plate 1/3 up 2/3 down?

I am unsure what is the function or need for 1/3 up...

Thanks for your explanation in advance.


Shark