Mild 454 build [Archive] - River Dave's Place

obnoxious001

12-08-2009, 01:09 PM

Ok,, working on a mild 454 build for a certain jet boat in Utah. Probably something over 500 HP, but don't think it will be dynoed due to budget. Plans call for .060" over 4 bolt block,, forged crank and pistons,, 990 heads and a hydraulic roller cam.

Any interest in seeing a photo essay on this one?

Community

12-08-2009, 01:36 PM

I always enjoy the threads personally. 60 over is a 496?

djunkie

12-08-2009, 01:41 PM

I always enjoy the threads personally. 60 over is a 496?

I believe .60 over is a 468. A 496 is a .60 over 454 with a 4 1/4 inch stroker crank. Stock 454 crank is 4 inch.

Halvecto

12-08-2009, 02:11 PM

At that +/-500 level, how critical is the hydraulic cam? Is it dependent on intake and exhaust?

Pics are always good!

obnoxious001

12-08-2009, 03:33 PM

At that +/-500 level, how critical is the hydraulic cam? Is it dependent on intake and exhaust?

Pics are always good!

500 HP is a very conservative estimate for this engine. I built a "budget" 468 awhile back that dynoed 517 HP with a flat tappet hydraulic cam.

It's always important to match the cam to the rest of the parts in an engine, rather than trying to build an engine around a cam design. Not only does the type of induction and exhaust come into play, but also the type of boat,, type of gas,, how the boat (or car) will be used,, rpm range desired, etc.

jrork

12-08-2009, 05:54 PM

Barry, I for one always enjoy your builds if for no other reason that I "may" learn sumthin......

Iff'n you're willing, I'm sure the gang would enjoy it.

obnoxious001

12-08-2009, 09:02 PM

I have a block ready to go for this build,, and just got a brand new set of KB forged pistons. Sending to balance tomorrow.

http://i122.photobucket.com/albums/o256/obnoxious001/Dave%20Lee%20468/DSCN5403.jpg

http://i122.photobucket.com/albums/o256/obnoxious001/Dave%20Lee%20468/DSCN5402.jpg

http://i122.photobucket.com/albums/o256/obnoxious001/Dave%20Lee%20468/DSCN5453.jpg

Starbuck74

12-14-2009, 08:13 AM

Hi. I'm the "certain jet boat in Utah" owner. I'd like to see the build documented of course. :D

I think everyone already knows why I went with Barry for the build, :thumbsup but the reason for changing the engine was due to the rear support bearing having no clearance to the pump and failing.

With Barry's permission, here are a couple of pics. Engine is going into 1974 Starbuck. My aim is to keep everything as original as possible. Original far out wavy gravy graphics on silver flake gel.

http://www.riverdavesplace.com/gallery/displayimage.php?imageid=4754

This is how bad the condition of the stringers was. Note mounts were lag screwed with galvanized screws. Saturated with water. Rear mount was two angle pieces from a cut down bell housing directly to pump grate mount. I don't know how the motor stayed in the boat.

http://www.riverdavesplace.com/gallery/displayimage.php?imageid=4755

New stringers and bulkhead layed out on West System. I'm no handyman. I followed original set of stringers and found them to be off-center a bit.

http://www.riverdavesplace.com/gallery/displayimage.php?imageid=4756

Glass and paint, tanks fitted. Original had a deck covering the stringers. Engine mounts set for 3.6 degrees.

http://www.riverdavesplace.com/gallery/displayimage.php?imageid=5022

Still working with Barry on cam options and will most likely opt for solid lifters and dyno pull. Pretty excited about moving forward on this.

Outlaw

12-14-2009, 09:51 AM

Hi. I'm the certain jet boat in Utah owner. I'd like to see the build documented of course. :D

I can answer any questions on why I went with this type of build. I think everyone already knows why I went with Barry for the build. :thumbsup

Welcome Mr Certin jet boater:D
good looking boat

Starbuck74

12-15-2009, 02:16 PM

Starbuck74

12-16-2009, 01:38 PM

Welcome Mr Certin jet boater:D
good looking boat

Thanks. I'm trying to keep it 100% original but will change the interior colors. It has a back bench-type of seat. I was tempted to get rid of it and make an upholstered bulkhead, but we just don't see many boats built for four in this size anymore.

It'll be one of the most expensive $3500 boats anywhere. ;)

H20MOFO

12-30-2009, 02:35 PM

Starbuck are you in tooele? I think I know who this is. Barry how much if any do you take altitude into consideration when deciding on CR/piston choice?

Starbuck74

12-30-2009, 03:48 PM

Starbuck are you in tooele? I think I know who this is. Barry how much if any do you take altitude into consideration when deciding on CR/piston choice?

Yes you do! :party2: If I can answer for Barry-we didn't discuss altitude when planning, so perhaps he doesn't figure that in. I just ran a calculator and 9.6:1 at 0' will be something like 8.7 at 4500'

Maybe not an issue for non-race, non boost applications?

My carb is going back on, and it's jetted for this altitude.

obnoxious001

12-30-2009, 05:53 PM

Yes you do! :party2: If I can answer for Barry-we didn't discuss altitude when planning, so perhaps he doesn't figure that in. I just ran a calculator and 9.6:1 at 0' will be something like 8.7 at 4500'

Maybe not an issue for non-race, non boost applications?

My carb is going back on, and it's jetted for this altitude.

Last I knew you were going to be house hunting at the river in two weeks?

I selected pistons based on a normal pump gas iron head jet boat engine.

Jetting will need to be changed for dyno down here, and would need to be leaned back down if you will run it at 4500 ft.

Starbuck74

12-31-2009, 04:26 AM

Last I knew you were going to be house hunting at the river in two weeks?

I selected pistons based on a normal pump gas iron head jet boat engine.

Jetting will need to be changed for dyno down here, and would need to be leaned back down if you will run it at 4500 ft.

Yes, I'll be at the river on the 9th to the 16th. Jet sizes are written in pencil on both ends of the bowls. I want to say 80 and 91, but not sure. I thought it ran a tad rich with the other motor.

Let me know if you think I can pick it up during that time, and I'll swing by.

H2O's post made me check out those on line CR calculators. Now I understand why some folks around here (altitude) run such high stated compression on pump gas.

obnoxious001

12-31-2009, 10:34 AM

Yes, I'll be at the river on the 9th to the 16th. Jet sizes are written in pencil on both ends of the bowls. I want to say 80 and 91, but not sure. I thought it ran a tad rich with the other motor.

Let me know if you think I can pick it up during that time, and I'll swing by.

H2O's post made me check out those on line CR calculators. Now I understand why some folks around here (altitude) run such high stated compression on pump gas.

My point was, if you are moving to the river, then I feel the compression I chose for your engine would be the right way to go.

Starbuck74

01-01-2010, 02:31 PM

My point was, if you are moving to the river, then I feel the compression I chose for your engine would be the right way to go.

Understood. I didn't even consider that until reading H2O's question. I'm fine with how it works out. It'll be a good running boat either way.

CycloneRacing

01-11-2010, 09:22 PM

obnoxious001

01-12-2010, 12:34 PM

Why did you decid eto go with a solid lifter on this build and not a hydraulic lifter? Since it is going to be at or around 500 HP that is perfect range for a good Hydraullic lifter to function. Here is a link to our Hydraulic Roller lifters.

http://www.edelbrock.com/automotive_new/mc/valvetrain/lifter_kits.shtml

There have been numerous discussions and changes since we started on this project, a couple of which are indicated on the thread. I think we may pull a little more power with the solid cam, as I think Dave has had a few regrets that he didn't choose the 496 option we had discussed.

Anyway, no huge boasts of power, but the engine will run on the dyno, so will see what happens.

Starbuck74

01-12-2010, 02:28 PM

There have been numerous discussions and changes since we started on this project, a couple of which are indicated on the thread. I think we may pull a little more power with the solid cam, as I think Dave has had a few regrets that he didn't choose the 496 option we had discussed.

Anyway, no huge boasts of power, but the engine will run on the dyno, so will see what happens.

True enough Barry on the changes. I hope for more than 500 HP, and with a dyno run I'll know where we sit. My only reason for opting with the solid is to squeeze out a bit more power.

Outlaw

01-14-2010, 07:32 AM

There have been numerous discussions and changes since we started on this project,

is this engine for Brett Farve:D

Hotbo

01-21-2010, 01:31 PM

nice pics i look forward to seeing and hearing the progress :thumbsup

obnoxious001

02-08-2010, 01:48 PM

Been getting ready to post more photos as this one goes together. Probably will go ahead and start a new thread so someone doesn't have to skip 3 pages to get to the start of the build. Crank is going into the block in a few minutes, and building is more important than uploading photos and writing it up for the time being.

wrighton

02-08-2010, 07:47 PM

Thanks for keeping us updated Barry. Spring is right around the corner.:thumbsup

obnoxious001

02-18-2010, 02:06 AM

Full story and photos coming soon now,, should be together tomorrow and delivering to dyno Friday if there are no problems. I have been shooting photos daily but a slow computer connection for a few days, and not much free time has kept me from starting. Still waiting on a set of "Obnoxious" valve covers that are supposed to ship tomorrow, but may have to dyno with something else since they will need polishing and breathers installed.

Constant840

02-22-2010, 03:23 PM

Any updates on this Barry?

obnoxious001

02-22-2010, 03:46 PM

Any updates on this Barry?

Connected to dyno today, should get some results tomorrow and work on writing the whole deal up.

Starbuck74

02-23-2010, 06:10 PM

obnoxious001

02-23-2010, 06:24 PM

Barry will be posting a new thread on the engine build which culminated in a dyno run today.

I wont give up the numbers, but I am VERY happy with the outcome. :champagne:

Looking forward to the new thread on the build Barry!

I am happy with the results as well, tired from all the work but happy that it exceeded expectations, and sounds like a race engine even though it's only 9.6-1. If the boat hooks up, some guys with tunnel rams are going to be scratching their heads wondering how this little single carb, iron headed engine beat them.

http://i122.photobucket.com/albums/o256/obnoxious001/Dave%20Lee%20468/DSCN6143.jpg

Constant840

02-24-2010, 02:44 PM

Enough with the teasing... lets hear some results!

jrork

02-24-2010, 09:46 PM

I wont give up the numbers, but I am VERY happy with the outcome. :champagne:

Congrats! Barry builds awesome stuff and you can't go wrong.

SangerDude

06-20-2010, 01:09 PM

uh...yeah! Serious builds right here.....serious talent!

HALLETTRIZZ

08-18-2010, 09:02 PM

Great build!

obnoxious001

08-18-2010, 11:57 PM

Great build!

Did you read the whole story?

http://www.riverdavesplace.com/forums/showthread.php?t=29409

HALLETTRIZZ

08-19-2010, 11:13 AM

Did you read the whole story?

http://www.riverdavesplace.com/forums/showthread.php?t=29409

yes actually that was the thread I read... great stuff. I actually wanted to pm you but dont have enough posts yet. (fairly new to RDP) Bob McKenna (highvoltage329) said you are the man and referred me to you. IM thinking of puting something together for my hallett 19. would love to speak in more detail.