Hydraulic steering

[RitcheyRch]

Thinking about putting hydraulic steering on my boat and getting rid of the dual cable system. WHat do you guys recommend? Always was told that it wasnt recommended on a boat that goes over 75 mph.

Keep hearing good reviews on the Sea Star Pro but not sure.

[badluck]

I had mine rerigged with the sea star and a 300x and love it.

[RitcheyRch]

Heard is night and day compared to the cable system.


I had mine rerigged with the sea star and a 300x and love it.

[Tom Brown]

Always was told that it wasnt recommended on a boat that goes over 75 mph.

I think that comes from Scream & Fly types who haven't yet made the leap into the 20th century.

Hydraulic all the way. Check out the outboard drag boat guys. You will see a ton of Sea Star Pro steering systems on boats with wicked amounts of power and performance. It's more safe than dual cable, in my opinion.

[RitcheyRch]

Thanks. Going to look into the Sea Star Pro system.


I think that comes from Scream & Fly types who haven't yet made the leap into the 20th century.

Hydraulic all the way. Check out the outboard drag boat guys. You will see a ton of Sea Star Pro steering systems on boats with wicked amounts of power and performance. It's more safe than dual cable, in my opinion.

[River]

I went from cable to Sea Star on mine. No wheel torque and works perfect. Also nice only having the two small lines to the ram over the cables sticking out. You can't go wrong by doing this. I was getting tired ramming the wheel into my leg everytime I let go of it with my hands (big torque with cables). ;)

[whiteworks]

RR I just noticed your post, my boat came rigged with hydrolic steering (love it). My freind had one set up with cables and it looked like alot of work hoofin that wheel around. The hydrolic setup is so smooth and there is no real change in pressure on the wheel. on a side note I have heard that hydrolic steering will mask handling problems if the boat is not set up right. As well always make sure the shafts are clean so the seals dont get damaged. out of curiosity, how much does a hydrolic system cost?

[Flying_Lavey]

I've never driven a boat with hydraulic but I have driven a boat with a rotary cable system and mine with the rack and pinion no feed back system and I must say the rack and pinion is VERY easy to turn and there really is NO feedback. I think if you are upgrading from a rack and pinion you wont see much difference in the ease of turning but you could see some in the precision (less sloppy). I was also told that some systems like having the cables ran down opposite sides of the boat while some work better when they are ran down the same side (one used as a push-pull style while the other would be in a push-push or a pull-pull style). That might make a difference if it is in fact true.

[RitcheyRch]

It would have been a much cleaner install with the hydraulic steering lines as opposed to the steering cables but was going to be way too much work with doing all the glass work and everything. Not to say wont do it at a later date but timing not good now.

I went from cable to Sea Star on mine. No wheel torque and works perfect. Also nice only having the two small lines to the ram over the cables sticking out. You can't go wrong by doing this. I was getting tired ramming the wheel into my leg everytime I let go of it with my hands (big torque with cables). ;)

The Sea Star Pro is about $1700 installed but not including the glass work.

RR I just noticed your post, my boat came rigged with hydrolic steering (love it). My freind had one set up with cables and it looked like alot of work hoofin that wheel around. The hydrolic setup is so smooth and there is no real change in pressure on the wheel. on a side note I have heard that hydrolic steering will mask handling problems if the boat is not set up right. As well always make sure the shafts are clean so the seals dont get damaged. out of curiosity, how much does a hydrolic system cost?

[Flying_Lavey]

It would have been a much cleaner install with the hydraulic steering lines as opposed to the steering cables but was going to be way too much work with doing all the glass work and everything. Not to say wont do it at a later date but timing not good now.



The Sea Star Pro is about $1700 installed but not including the glass work.

I think you are probably doing the right thing. The No Feed back 2 cable rack and pinion system is about $420 with the helm and all. So you got to think, is the hydraulic system really worth that $1,600 +/- premium?

[RitcheyRch]

Exactly what I was thinking.


I think you are probably doing the right thing. The No Feed back 2 cable rack and pinion system is about $420 with the helm and all. So you got to think, is the hydraulic system really worth that $1,600 +/- premium?

[Tom Brown]

I've never driven a boat with hydraulic but I have driven a boat with a rotary cable system and mine with the rack and pinion no feed back system and I must say the rack and pinion is VERY easy to turn and there really is NO feedback.

I run a Teleflex dual cable NFB system and it has feedback. Quite a bit, in fact.

The system is mis-named. It's really a brake hub system. When you're not turning it, a brake is applied so the wheel won't turn from engine side pressure on the cable. When you turn the wheel, the brake releases and you're re-connected to the cables.

Hydraulic is safer. There is no question about it.

One thing about the cable setup is that you can tell if you're crabbing badly. Feedback will allow you to adjust your setup with torque tab or prop changes to reduce the torque steer. Setting things up just right won't hurt the top speed any, either. A hydraulic will mask all of that.

[River]

I run a Teleflex dual cable NFB system and it has feedback. Quite a bit, in fact.

The system is mis-named. It's really a brake hub system. When you're not turning it, a brake is applied so the wheel won't turn from engine side pressure on the cable. When you turn the wheel, the brake releases and you're re-connected to the cables.

Hydraulic is safer. There is no question about it.

One thing about the cable setup is that you can tell if you're crabbing badly. Feedback will allow you to adjust your setup with torque tab or prop changes to reduce the torque steer. Setting things up just right won't hurt the top speed any, either. A hydraulic will mask all of that.

He's got that covered. There is a HUGE difference once you upgrade... It's so very much nicer with hydraulic. :)

[ikster]

I race a V bottom with SeaStar Pro Hydraulic and like it. Most of the guys that have cable steering do not like the hydraulic. Personal opinion and what you are used to. The hydaulic is easy to drive.

[Flying_Lavey]

I run a Teleflex dual cable NFB system and it has feedback. Quite a bit, in fact.

The system is mis-named. It's really a brake hub system. When you're not turning it, a brake is applied so the wheel won't turn from engine side pressure on the cable. When you turn the wheel, the brake releases and you're re-connected to the cables.

Hydraulic is safer. There is no question about it.

One thing about the cable setup is that you can tell if you're crabbing badly. Feedback will allow you to adjust your setup with torque tab or prop changes to reduce the torque steer. Setting things up just right won't hurt the top speed any, either. A hydraulic will mask all of that.

Hmm.. Thats interesting because like I said I have almost no feed-back it its is sooo easy to turn. I wonder why that is? Im assuming its probably just personal opinion on this one. Although I will say I can crank the crap out of that wheel and turn it right around on the keel with almost no effort. It can be kinda fun to watch people come flying out of the captain chairs when they are pissing me off. :D lol

[Yellowboat]

Most of the guys that have cable steering do not like the hydraulic. Personal opinion and what you are used to. .

I wonder how much of that is a safety thing?( atleast in thier minds.)

I installed hydrolic steering on my dads old boat( I was small enough to get under the dash), it went from 2 hands on the wheel at all times too one finger could turn it lock to lock.

[Tom Brown]

Hmm.. Thats interesting because like I said I have almost no feed-back it its is sooo easy to turn.

What kind of prop are you running? You're probably running a 4 blade like a Trophy.

You're getting feedback. That's not a matter of opinion. The only time the feedback goes away is when you let go of the wheel, the brake engages, and the wheel doesn't spin.

The feedback you're getting is that you have a well balanced setup. Even without a brake hub, you wouldn't be getting wheel torque.

One of the problems I see with hydraulic is that guys use it to fix insane quantities of wheel torque. It doesn't fix anything; it just masks the problem. If you get everything set up nicely, there won't be a ton of wheel torque (although there can still be quite a bit if you're running some props like a big ear chopper).

For this reason, I think hydraulic makes it tougher to get a boat dialed in. It does make it nicer to drive once it is dialed in, though.

[Flying_Lavey]

What kind of prop are you running? You're probably running a 4 blade like a Trophy.

You're getting feedback. That's not a matter of opinion. The only time the feedback goes away is when you let go of the wheel, the brake engages, and the wheel doesn't spin.

The feedback you're getting is that you have a well balanced setup. Even without a brake hub, you wouldn't be getting wheel torque.

One of the problems I see with hydraulic is that guys use it to fix insane quantities of wheel torque. It doesn't fix anything; it just masks the problem. If you get everything set up nicely, there won't be a ton of wheel torque (although there can still be quite a bit if you're running some props like a big ear chopper).

For this reason, I think hydraulic makes it tougher to get a boat dialed in. It does make it nicer to drive once it is dialed in, though.

Hmm thats interesting. (BTW, Im in no way saying you are wrong at all just what I have noticed between my boat and my uncles boat. Both with 200hp mercs.) Im running a 21 Laser II though which is a 3 blade. I have run a large ear chopper before and never noticed a difference (I got a new chopper that Im hopefully going to be trying out in the next few weeks to see how well it works with my set-up). Maybe the water is different up there in Canada. lol j/k

[Mr. C]

I installed the Teleflex dual cable nfb last season and haven't been able to get it dialed in the way i want. It turns fairly easily to the left but is pretty tight/hard to steer to the right.
I think I'm sticking in the steering mounts that connect to the motor, Any suggestions on how to clean up the inside of the mount? Or should i just replace it.
Motor turns very easy when the steering cables are disconnected, same as the wheel when the cables are disconnected from the motor. put the two together and it's not happy. any suggestions.


almost forgot, Rich don't be a cheap ass put the hydraulic steering in:D:D:beer see ya on the water soon.

Mike

[RitcheyRch]

Had no problem with spending the money. Was going to take too much darn work to fill in the holes and everything. Plus figure, if it aint broken dont fix it.


I installed the Teleflex dual cable nfb last season and haven't been able to get it dialed in the way i want. It turns fairly easily to the left but is pretty tight/hard to steer to the right.
I think I'm sticking in the steering mounts that connect to the motor, Any suggestions on how to clean up the inside of the mount? Or should i just replace it.
Motor turns very easy when the steering cables are disconnected, same as the wheel when the cables are disconnected from the motor. put the two together and it's not happy. any suggestions.


almost forgot, Rich don't be a cheap ass put the hydraulic steering in:D:D:beer see ya on the water soon.

Mike

[Mr. C]

just having some fun with:D

[RitcheyRch]

I know. No harm no foul. :D


just having some fun with:D

[TBI]

I like cable better because I like to drive that sumbitch, not ride in it http://www.performanceboats.com/html/forums/images/smilies/action-smiley-035.gif

[Retired Member]

Hmm thats interesting. (BTW, Im in no way saying you are wrong at all just what I have noticed between my boat and my uncles boat. Both with 200hp mercs.) Im running a 21 Laser II though which is a 3 blade. I have run a large ear chopper before and never noticed a difference (I got a new chopper that Im hopefully going to be trying out in the next few weeks to see how well it works with my set-up). Maybe the water is different up there in Canada. lol j/k

I guess I got into this thread a bit late, but here's my take. As TB said set up has alot to do with torque steer. Your setup probably runs the prop fairly deep in the water, if this is the case, torque steer is minimal. As you raise the x dimension the torque steer will increase. This is do to the prop starting to surface. The higher it gets, the less of the prop is in the water, thus causing the the bottom of the prop is the only part to be "biting " the water making the prop walk the motor that direction.

Cables do give you more feed back, but the biggest benefit is the quickness of the reaction the cables give. Minute adjustments are much quicker then that of the normal Sea Star Pro (difference between regular and pro is the kevlar hoses and higher pressure helm). What we did on the Cyclone ski race boat was put a giant o-ring on side of the motor steering mount and connect it to the hull, thus helping reduce the torque. This boat has had all the setup any one boat could take, it runs 91mph with a bone stock 300xs with 2 people (driver and observer) 1/2 full of gas. The pictue was the last race we had the 2.5 on the boat.

My person boat had/has quite a bit of torque steer. It was easy to drive till you started to trim it out, them the torque made it difficult to keep straight, let alone turn left. I added the Sea Star Pro system, only I used a high ratio helm to make it more responsive to steering input. It has been the best money I have spent on the boat so far.

[River]

I guess I got into this thread a bit late, but here's my take. As TB said set up has alot to do with torque steer. Your setup probably runs the prop fairly deep in the water, if this is the case, torque steer is minimal. As you raise the x dimension the torque steer will increase. This is do to the prop starting to surface. The higher it gets, the less of the prop is in the water, thus causing the the bottom of the prop is the only part to be "biting " the water making the prop walk the motor that direction.

Cables do give you more feed back, but the biggest benefit is the quickness of the reaction the cables give. Minute adjustments are much quicker then that of the normal Sea Star Pro (difference between regular and pro is the kevlar hoses and higher pressure helm). What we did on the Cyclone ski race boat was put a giant o-ring on side of the motor steering mount and connect it to the hull, thus helping reduce the torque. This boat has had all the setup any one boat could take, it runs 91mph with a bone stock 300xs with 2 people (driver and observer) 1/2 full of gas. The pictue was the last race we had the 2.5 on the boat.

My person boat had/has quite a bit of torque steer. It was easy to drive till you started to trim it out, them the torque made it difficult to keep straight, let alone turn left. I added the Sea Star Pro system, only I used a high ratio helm to make it more responsive to steering input. It has been the best money I have spent on the boat so far.

I'm surprised the GMT steering column isn't bent from me making left turns...:D

[Retired Member]

I'm surprised the GMT steering column isn't bent from me making left turns...:D

I got it figured out: lift, turn, back on the gas.

Oh, you mean bend this?
http://www.riverdavesplace.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=19414&stc=1&d=1213750357

http://www.riverdavesplace.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=19413&stc=1&d=1213750357

http://www.riverdavesplace.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=19415&stc=1&d=1213750357

[River]

Those red x's are blinding...:)

[Ratso]

We run hydraulic on every fast outboard that we have. I actually went with the newest Sea Star Pro on my rig (with the anodized cylinder) because it is "keyed" and takes all the twisting out of the system where it mounts on the motor. It was only about $50 more than the Sea Star (soon to be old school) Pro.

[Retired Member]

Those red x's are blinding...:)

Hmm, not sure why they are blockning the hot link. They were supposed to let them be seen. :confused: I'll talk with them tomorrow.

[W.O.T MARINE]

hydrolic stereing hands down way to go for any fast boat. ive driven many boats and outboards, cable ( rotay) and rac and pinion) hydrolic is the only way to go, spendy but worth it plus any old rac and pinon or non pully cable you wont find replacment cables with hydrolic just keep fluid topped and no air and keep the ram clean ( no pitting) and your good.

i can drive our connlley 75 one handed (sea star pro) and parts let me know paid $1200 for all my stuff

[DAVEO]

Hay RR, I converted my 20 stoker several years ago and Im glad I did. Much nicer to drive. Had the dual cable system and hated it. I would go out for the day and it was like I did yard work all day hands and arms were wore out. Now I can run 150 miles in a day and not be tired at the ene of the day.:party2:

[badluck]

I can hardly drive 150 miles a day and not be tired.Hydro on a Stoker for sure. must have

[Eggbeatn ur Ass]

maybe you need to work out those buggywhips you call arms a little more. Who complains about driving the boat all day?:D

[RiverDave]

I've driven boats with cable and hydraulic.. To me it's a no brainer, I'd prefer the hydraulic. the cable guys claim more "input" but I don't think so at all. Cables will "stretch" under tension etc.. Hydraulic fluid doesn't compress at all. The hoses will enlarge a bit giving a bit of "cushion" but even then I believe it to be less then cable.

There is a lot of "myth" involved in this shit though.. People will say hydraulic is easier to turn, vs cables etc.. That isn't necesarily true.

There is no "power assist" in any of this stuff.. Ultimately you get out what you put in. What I mean by that is if you were to make everything equal. The mount where the hydraulic ram pushes / pulls the motor and made a mount that replaced that with cables.. In theory it should all be the pretty much the same.

If one is harder to turn then the other, then all things aren't equal, something has changed between the 2. In my mind though hydraulics is way easier to rig, and cleaner so it would be the better option for me.

RD