What would you run?

[Flat Broke]

So I've got a boat in my sights that I have a couple power options available on. The hull is a 21 Superboat which should weigh in the 1300-1500lb range dry without outboard. I have the option of a fresh 2.5 280, saving a few grand and taking another 2.5 280 with 160hours, or I can buy the boat less power. The spread on cost is +6k for the fresh 2.5, or +4k for the 160 hour but running strong 2.5.

I want the boat for use at Havi and in the harbor for mostly family duty and the occaisional speed run in the afternoons. When the boat is toting the family around, it will usually be pretty full with 3 adults and 2 kids. The boat has a nice pyon installed that I would like to put to use at some point. Balancing budget against performance, fuel econonmy, etc; is there a magic bullet? I'd prefer used from a cost standpoint; and realize that savings may cost at the expense of a rebuild in the near future.

I have no preference Merc vs. Yami vs. Rude, so let's hear it.

Chris

[stevel]

For most uses the new four stroke yamaha would be a great motor. I think you would get more performance with the 2.5 but i would worry about how reliable it will be

[Groper]

I would run from the 2.5, I just sold mine, some buyers were scared about only having 40+hrs on it. There not family friendly, they don't like to idle very long or they will load up, EFI motors are better but still just like to run at higher rpms. Parts are getting harder to find for these motors also.

My boat will be used in exackly the places you stated, with several hours of dragging the kids around.

I went with a new 300xs, yes its a 2-stroke but have a great track record so far, and run cleaner than most four strokes, with less moving parts and weight. However my second choice was the Yamaha Vmax250sho, both weigh 505lbs. and cost about the same, and will use about half the fuel a 2.5 does. just my .000002cents

[Tom Brown]

The 280 is a great motor but that hull is a little heavy to take advantage of a light weight screamer.

The knock against the "fresh" 280 is that you don't know if they fixed the problem that caused to to grenade. Frankly, I think it's unlikely.

The 160 hour 280 is more interesting but I'd want to see a leak-down and compression analysis on it. The $2K savings will look pretty cheap if you have to rebuild it. If it's still a nicosil motor, 160 hours isn't a lot but a 280 won't crank out 2K hours like a fishing engine.

I love the Merc 2.5 but wouldn't have one on a family boat.

[138]

The 280 and 260 do not like to idle around that much...That kinda is a heavy boat... a 300xs would work great. I do not have time to type but if you want all kinds of info on the 280 and 300xs you can call me
310-409 8499
Carl

[STV_Keith]

As mentioned, the 2.5 is a hot-rod motor. That boat is a little big for one, but hell, I've seen a 24 HTM with a SINGLE 2.5/260 on it. Just have to prop it down to take advantage of the 7500+ RPM band.

That being said, I would count on the 160hr motor needing tore down immediately. Figure it will need pistons, at about $1700/set. Add a gasket kit, injector flow test/cleaning and if you do the work yourself, you'll be into it almost 3k.

The fresh one is like a mystery box. If they are going to provide some kind of warranty (not likely in private sales), consider it's going to have a problem. Why was it freshened in the first place? Hours? Grenade? The bottom line is there are so many parts out there and people throwing stuff together, you never know what you're going to get. 6k is a fair deal if that's coming with a Sportmaster and an offshore mid, but at the very least, I'd expect to disassemble it, check it all over and put it back together if everything looks good. Worst case, you're into it for a gasket kit for ~$250. Of course, this all assumes you can do the work yourself.

On a larger boat like that, I'd suggest you look for a used 300PM or 300x. The prices have come down, and they are a bit more of a utility/fishing type motor, with longer life expectancy than the 2.5 hot rods.

If you're really a tinkerer, consider the old OMC V8's, which have great torque but can be a finicky motor. With the newest ones being over 15 years old now, they are usually fairly inexpensive, but a good workhorse for the money. My dad has one with over 400hrs on it that's never been apart.

[Flat Broke]

The deal on the fresh 280 (it's actually on the boat right now) is it was rebuilt by Jay Smith as a freshen up, not as a result of a failure. So if I were to take everything a face value, it sounds like that's the better route if I were going to go with a 2.5 based on what Keith is saying. So is 160-180 hours about what is expected out of a 280? Is there an optimistic chance that if the motor was well taken care of I'm only looking at a re-ring and injector service? And I thought 250 hour valvespring life outa my 498 was bad :grumble:

The 6k above the cost of the boat was getting close to the upper limit of my total budget for this boat, so with that in mind, a cursory look tells me that I'd probably have to settle for less than a 300. I'm told the boat runs right at 80 with the 280 without having fully gone through the setup. Any estimates on what it would likely run with a 225 or 250 3.0 motor? I'm guessing that in the midrange either of those options will be comparable to or work better than the 2.5; but we're all guys here, and any compromise that significantly reduces top speed kinda sucks :D That said, I prefer stuff that is responsive to throttle input in rougher water, over stuff I have to wing out on flat water to get to the big number. I.E. I'd be happier with mid seventies and strong midrange over low-mid 80s and taking a little while to get there.

I also have the option to buy the boat less powerhead, but with the mid/lower installed for +2k. What kind of exchangability do I have bolting different powerheads to the exisiting mid that's on there? Does this open up or narrow options for me?

Last question for now, aside from S&F where is a good place to start looking for alternative powerplants for the boat if I want to stay away from the 2.5?

Carl, thanks for the offer to contact you with questions. I'll hit you up either tomorrow or Wednesday. I also wanted to ask you some questions about a trim tab setup I saw on a picture you posted in a different thread a while back, so your timing was perfect.

Chris

[STV_Keith]

I believe most of the 280's got top pinned pistons. The 260's got side pinned pistons and the locating pins were known to come out around 150 hours or so. My bone stock 260 made it to about 185 hours before it lost a pin and scratched the block. Now I'll be into it $3k to put it back together, with all new pistons.

The top pinned pistons will not have the same failure, but the pistons tend to oval over time. Figure you will go through it around 150 hrs. That should take you a few seasons though, I'd imagine. I'd do the injectors just out of precaution. One of those doesn't do it's job and you're spending a bunch more. Just nice to know they are 100% when you start at the least.

I would think it should run harder than 80. Check with S&F...plenty of guys over there with them. Engine height is a big factor usually. Could be 10mph just in tuning the setup. The 3.0's will accelerate better, but probably suffer a little on top end.

The mid will likely accomodate any of the 2.0/2.4/2.5 engines Merc made. Is it an offshore? What gearcase is on the boat? Is it a single piece exhaust adapter (hi-perf) or 2-piece fishing mota adapter?

S&F is really it for these kinds of motors as far as a large internet source goes.

[Flat Broke]

Thanks Keith,

I'm waiting on info on the mid and lower from the owner. But if I understand what you're saying, the largest block that would bolt up would be a 2.5, which seems like it narrows my options if I bought the boat with the mid and lower.

Another question I had was whether or not you can have the ECU re-mapped for different applications etc. on EFI outboards. As an example, if the 280 is notorious for loading up at idle, it seems like a fuel curve change could address that issue. I haven't started looking into that aspect of outboard fuel and ingnition managment, but it seems like it'd be a simple fix even for a rudimentary four stroke EFI setup.

When I get more info on the mid and lower, I'll be sure to post up.

Chris

[STV_Keith]

Well, the 280 had Motorola electronics and there are a few guys that can do stuff with them, but nothing for the hands on types (yet). The 280's idle and run great, you just can't monkey with the electronics, which is why you will see guys that mod them, go back to 260 electronics. The 260's have aftermarket fully adjustable ECU's that you can buy, like the Brucato PCU.

The 260's use mechanical timing advance, so no electronic management there either...just fuel.

[Flat Broke]

Keith,

For reference, the mid/lower is a 20" setup with the lower being a CLE and the exhaust plate of the one-piece variety.

When you say the 280s idle fine, do you mean their smooth, don't load up plugs, or both?

I started adding up my projected use for the boat, and like you indicated, 150 hours should last me a few years. If the 280 would hold together reliably for that kind of time, the cost of freshening, even with new pistons isn't that bad. But the reliability and idle are major concerns. Depending upon where I launch from in LB, it can be a little bit of a cruise to get somewhere I could roll the boat over and clear it out. Couple that with reports from some 280 offshore owners claiming 50 hour rebuild windows, and I don't know what to think. Since the exisitng mid/lower on the boat won't accomodate a 3.0 setup, I guess my first step is to decide if I want to stay with a 2.5 variant, or grab the boat without any drive components and start from scratch with a 3.0 outboard.

If I go that route, what are my most cost effective options in the 225-300hp range going to be? Any years specific models to stay away from?

Chris