From trailer car to nasty street driver...the transformation begins

Vegaskeith said:

Did you dyno the LS3? After you built it?

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Bigbore500r said:

So, I have a '67 El Camino that had a 12:1 440" BBC. Motor had a huge clay smith 270 @ .050 solid cam, Car was setup with a 4000 stall, TH400, 4.11 rear, and sounded mean as all hell. But...i never drove the car because it was so radical. Cruise nights were fine, but to and from work wasn't an option due to the lovely So-Cal traffic. It was just too much of a handfull, plus the 6-7 mpg with mixed race fuel wasn't much fun either. I got sick of the car just sitting under a cover, so I decided to change it up a bit and make it something I'd actually use
I finally bit the bullet and pulled the drivetrain, and its been sitting without a motor since February.

This weekend, I decided to brush off my other automotive obligations and work on my own shit! I assembled a built LS3 last year (which was supposed to be for my 72 chevelle) and I decided to drop that sucker in there. Well....its not done, but it is sitting between the fenderwells! Here is the new combo...And don't forget the dogs.

-376" 6.2L LS3
-Heads milled .030, .040" cometic gaskets for 11.5:1
-230 XFI /234 XER lobed comp cam. 114LSA .615 lift
-.080" flycut pistons (needed for clearance)
-Comp trunion upgraded rockers, .080 wall pushrods
-C5R timing set
-1 3/4" long tube headers
-25% underdrive SFI crank pulley
-4l65E trans w/ input speed sensor 2007+
-Yank 3000 276mm stall
-E38 / T42 gm ECM / TCM, with custom harness

Not sure when i'll actually finish it, but heres some pics of where we are....

OLD BBC combo...(pulled in Februrary)

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Car needed a bath from sitting in the garage collecting dust...

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Boxers with the new combo...

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Lowering it in...

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All mounted up. Next, the diveshaft needs to be shortened and the yoke changed. No mods were neccessary in the trans tunnel, since I kept the motor pretty low in the chassis and pulled it forward a little. I wanted to be able to access the bellhousing bolts easily, nothing irritates me more than when stuff isn't servicable. Engine compartments needs some cleaning up, wiring cleaned up, brake boosted will be changed to a smaller dual-diaphram unit eventually.

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rivermobster said:

Fargin schweeeeeet!!!

What made you pick That trans??

What harness and puter you gonna use?

Can't wait to see this all done!! :thumbup::thumbup:

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Bigbore500r said:

Using the 4l60e based trans because it fits with no cutting or fab work. I was going to go 4l80e, but didn't want to cut the floor of the car up. Also, a 4l80e does not play nice with Gen IV gm computers, so i would have to either use a Gen III ecm setup with an adaptor box for the different crank / cam signal, or a stand alone tcm.
This trans is stock, just to get the car swapped and running, but it will not stand the abuse. Im building another 4l60 once funds are available, with 5 pinion planetaries, billet sun shell, hardened input shaft, transgo shift kit, sonnax billet servos and some other goodies that should make it live.
I used a 2008 trans, which has the added ISS (input speed sensor) which is neccessary since im using a factory E38 ECM, with a T42 GM trans controller. The ECM / TCM is from a 2008 silverado, and the harness is a purpose built stand alone unit from a guy that I use to build all my harnesses, located in colorado.

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rivermobster said:

Nice. :thumbup:

I'm almost done with a 94 truck that someone else did the initial LS swap in. (Trying to make chicken salad out of chicken shit here!!!).

Supposedly, everything is out of an 03 Tahoe the guy wrecked. It's been a major pain in the ass, but the customer was willing to pay. He has been trying to get it done for over two years, and no one could figure it out!

What software are you guys using? We are looking at buying the HP Tuner Pro kit, but haven't bit the bullet just yet...

Thanks.

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Caydens Cat said:

absolutely bad ass. I've had a '42 sitting in my garage for too many years now. Wanting the same type of swap: 5.3L power & OD trans from a wreck. No skills = sit and wait. :grumble:

Killer that you have the know-how to get it done. :thumbsup

That's going to be a nice ride.

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Bigbore500r said:

Yea, nothing is better than sorting out someone else's nightmare! They are pretty straightforward, but there are alot of strange little things when it comes to the DBW stuff, TAC modules, pedals, etc. GM decides they want to switch wire positions on jumper harnesses for no reason sometimes, and also different model years do some different stuff. 2006-2007 truck ECM operating systems are configured for different TAC modules, and they will run with earlier harnesses / hardware but give you all kinds of grief with pedal position VS TB blade angle. I've played with the stuff for so long know i pretty much have experienced everything possible, let me know if I can help you troubleshoot anything.

I own HPT (pro) and also have access to EFI Live. Its actually cheaper to use the EFI live to flash computers, if you are changing the operating system. Its a flat 149 per license. The HPT is only $99 per ecm, but requires that you license the ECM, and the operating system you are flashing if it does not match the original ECM.

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rivermobster said:

We HAD a guy that worked here that had EFI Live, and he got it running for us.

Then he/we hooked up the cooling fans to the ECU (aftermarket, it came with a regular fan and clutch), and now it goes straight into limp mode.

Since he no longer works here, he does not wanna figure it out!

Not sure if I HAVE to have it put back to stock before we run the HPT on it or not. You have any insight at all on this deal??

Thanks in advance.

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Bigbore500r said:

The Ecm grounds a pin (pin 42 i think) to turn on the fans. The ground in turn activates your fan relay. Is it drive by wire? If it was a mechanical fan motor originally, he may have done a operating system flash to the ecm, to a later year that control fans. But, if it isnt the right year OS it may not be compatible with your current tac module and throttle body. Or.....if it is pulling power for the fans from a wire also supplying the ecm with power, this will cause wierd shit to happen. I would unhook whatever was hooked up fan wise, and retrace your steps to see where it is all hooked into. Could be something wired wrong, or just a tune issue if wiring checks out. Does it throw any codes in limp mode? Pm me i can decipher them

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rivermobster said:

You are on top of it here...

It ran fine when we first got it running (disabled the body control/alarm module, canister purge, etc...). I installed the fans, fan relay, exhaust, O2's and all that, and when he went back in to set up the relay trigger for the fans (just as you described, except for it is supplying the ground), thats when the whole thing went to shit!

Since it did come with manual fans, he HAD to have changed something else to get the relay control pin on the ECM to trigger. Fuck.

So............

So since he has already modified this ECU with EFI Live, will I be able to get HPT Pro to make it all right? Or will it have to be put back to stock first?

Also.......

There is no huge rush on this job, since the customer is still getting the final payment together for me. Can I pay you to come straighten this mess out for me? I have money in the estimate for this, as long as you don't charge me TOO much.

http://jmsservicecenter.com/contact/

If I can fix it at this point with HPT Pro, I can just go ahead and buy that now. We were gonna do it anyway, so no big.

Thanks for all of your help! :thumbup:

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Bigbore500r said:

It can be read and flashed with HPT, even though it was EFI Live tuned previously, thats not a problem. The only time you get locked out, is if somebody locks the tune with say EFI Live, then you cannot access it with EFI live. But you still can with HPT. Or vise versa. If the ECM gets fried during a "full flash" (OS change) you wont be able to recover it also, but this dosen't happen too often with GEN III stuff.

What year is the ECM? What did it come from?

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Bigbore500r said:

Well, just got the fuel system finished, trans cooler mounted and radiator mounted.....then I got a progress stopping call:

Vortech is going to use the car to develop a bolt-on GM musclecar blower kit, centered around their V3-Si centrifigal blower :thumbsup::thumbsup:thumbsup
Car is leaving my garage and heading to Vortech's shop in Oxnard, CA next Monday to begin R&D. Looks like im gonna need to re-evaluate my 4l65e transmission and fuel pump choice, but its all for good.

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Cole Trickle said:

Sweet....

You work fast. I want to come help you one Saturday so I can be better prepared of what to expect when I make a swap in my c10

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Bigbore500r said:

I have to work fast, my 2 year and 6 month old dont nap very long!

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djunkie said:

Awesome!!! I'd love to do a 5.3 swap into my '87.

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69GS said:

Love that body style El Camino :thumbup:

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Cole Trickle said:

Yep.....My first car was supposed to be a 67 ElCO. Saved up half the $$$ and my mom was going to loan me the extra 2K and when we went to look at it my dad wouldnt let me have it.

Ended up with the biggest pile of shit honda civic the world has ever seen...That car cost me thousands and left me stranded 10X more than the elco would have.

My parents were dicks

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chevellesb406 said:

My mom stipulated when I bought my brother got his first car and then later when I did, "I want you safe in something with a lot of metal around you." He came home with a 71 LeMans/GTO clone, and a couple years later I brought a 69 Chevelle home. Parents are English, not sure they realized what these cars were for

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chevellesb406 said:

My mom stipulated when I bought my brother got his first car and then later when I did, "I want you safe in something with a lot of metal around you." He came home with a 71 LeMans/GTO clone, and a couple years later I brought a 69 Chevelle home. Parents are English, not sure they realized what these cars were for

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Cole Trickle said:

Yep.....My first car was supposed to be a 67 ElCO. Saved up half the $$$ and my mom was going to loan me the extra 2K and when we went to look at it my dad wouldnt let me have it.

Ended up with the biggest pile of shit honda civic the world has ever seen...That car cost me thousands and left me stranded 10X more than the elco would have.

My parents were dicks

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djunkie said:

I had similar plans. I ended up with a bug. I made due with it though with a 200hp 2276. Lol

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bonesfab said:

I have done more than a few of these swaps. Even the 5.3's run amazing. Two of my workers have 5.3 in there trucks. One is 71 short bed and the other is a 55 chevy truck. I have a 6.0 in my wagon. We have put a 5.7 in a jeep cj 7 and got it past the referee. And we did a 5.7ls from a gto into a Amc pacer.. Ultimate sleeper.. They just run so good.. I actually have a 65 Elcamino waiting it's turn for a ls engine. Been there done that Joe. It sucks having to figure out what others have done wrong and then trying to explain it to the customer.. Just did a Trailblazer ss with a rear mount turbo on it. Everything was wrong with it. Just did not end....

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Bigbore500r said:

Got some more done tonight. Welded mounting flanges on my universal dual pass radiator (not my first choice for a radiator but i had it already). Then moved on to the not-so super bitchin Doug's swap headers....
The Doug's headers (which are made specifically for 64_67 A bodies) smashed the floorboards pretty bad and needed some surgery. Common complaint from everyone who has bought them. We cut the collectors off and took a pie cut, angled them downward about 1.25" to get away from the floorpan and play nice with the pipes coming thru the factory crossmember humps. Hopefully my harness gets here tomorrow so i can wire it over weekend. View attachment 354615 View attachment 354616 View attachment 354617 View attachment 354618 View attachment 354619 View attachment 354620

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boatnam2 said:

I got a header on my 65 nova one of the tubes is smashed down pretty good, and chance you could fix it?

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Bigbore500r said:

Getting close, took a pic with some LS1 corvette rail covers (which dont fit the LS3 but just to get a visual idea). Got the power steering hooked up, fuel connected, radiator mounted (needs a nicer radiator cap!), DBW gas pedal mounted, trans cooler in. Took a busted up 2002 camaro electric fan assembly I had laying around, and plastic welded it back together so I could mount it for mock-up purposes. It actually would work fine as is, but it looks a little shitty (you can see the plastic weld mark on the top) and i'm not gonna cheap out on that! Next, need to start sorting through the underhood wiring and eliminate the rats nest that has accumulated over the past 40 years and countless owners. The new motor has an internally regulated alternator so I can get rid of the external voltage regulator the car has now. Driveshaft should be ready to pickup today, and it has an appointment at the exhaust shop saturday morning. That just leaves final harness wiring, install the new smaller brake booster, then it goes to Vortech on Monday. View attachment 356449 So close!

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chevellesb406 said:

My apologies if you addressed it earlier, but for quite some time all the LS motors are "fly by wire" throttles correct, 2002 and after or something. What kind of modifications or conversion do you do to the gas pedal for this, or do you switch to a different throttle body. I am so done with tradition SBC stuff, when I am done with my current 421, a turbo'd LS is the next thing that will go in my car. Really enjoying this thread, thanks for posting. :thumbsup

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Bigbore500r said:

If you are doing a 24x reluctor wheel motor (most GEN III motors prior to 2007) you can run DBW or DBC (cable) throttle bodies, then just set up the ECM and stand alone harness accordingly. If going the DBW route, you have 2 options ....
1 - get a "red-blue" 0411 ECM from a corvette (or flash the ECM as a vette) and the run the corresponding vette gas pedal, and matching vette TAC module (the TAC module goes in-line between the pedal and main engine harness).

2 - get a "blue-green" ECM front any 03-07 truck, tahoe, suburban, etc. you would then run the corresponding truck throttle body, TAC module, and you have the option to either run the Vette gas pedal, or the truck gas pedal. The only difference between the 2 gas pedals, is that 2 wires need to be transposed between terminals when mixing / matching a vette pedal with a truck TAC, or vice versa. Most vehicles will want to run the vette pedal, as the factory truck pedal is huge and mounting it is difficult in older vehicles.

If you are going a 58x reluctor wheel motor (most GEN IV motors 2007 and later) you are stuck with DBW as the ECM does not allow a cable throttle (they never made a cable throttle vehicle of this type). You can run a 2007-later 58x motor and control it with a "0411 red-blue" ECM, and have the harness setup up for it, but it requires teh use of a lingenfelter crank signal conversion box so the older ECM can read the newer crank signal. But as far as DBW on the 2007-newer Gen IV motors go, it is a bit simpler. There is no TAC module, the ECM has that built in. You simply plug the pedal into the harness, and mount what gas pedal fits your vehicle best. I use a 2008 monte carlo pedal in most chevelles, it fits the best and is available for $50 through rock auto online.

There are some pitfalls you can fall into though - certain GEN III 2006-2007 truck ECM's used a different TAC module and pedal, with additional pins that cannot "talk" to the 03-05 truck computer operating systems. Also, Gen IV car throttle bodies were available with a "silver" and a "gold" blade and it is not entirely dependant on a cut-off year, so you have to know what the computer will be looking for. They open the opposite direction so the ECM reads that differently, the throttle body must be correct or it will go into a "limp" mode.

There is some other stuff, PM me and I can detail further, or point you in the right direction. I've pretty much done every combo imaginable, I can help you avoid some mistakes and sort though the internet BS that circulates rampantly on sites like LS1TECH lol

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Bigbore500r said:

GEARHEAD UPDATE -
Close to being done. Pulled the blower off because this motor is 11.5:1 compression and cammed for a N/A setup. Didnt feel like redoing the fuel system either, would have required running a return line, boost referenced fuel regulator, larger injectors....etc. Still need to swap out the nasty power booster and master cylinder, and probably do something with that ugly firewall. Other than that its done under hood for now. Time to start putting miles on it and datalog / tune

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ka0tyk said:

awesome project. what are the plans with the brake booster, etc? are you going to swap to a hydroboost setup?

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