Anyone try Wicky's Kratom?

About last Feb I stopped drinking Beer completely. I quit nearly all fast food and became accustomed to Subway (not a huge fan but its calorie controlled). I no longer eat anything past 7 pm and earlier if I can help it.

I have been drinking Muscle Milk Light and eating Pure Protein bars trying to keep all sugars under 5%. Eating as health as I can stand it. I am getting tired of chicken though.

In 6 months I have lost 50 lbs and I CAN'T exercise because of all the Heart meds I take to control arrhythmia.

No fad diet, no stimulants (actually could kill me) no exercise regiment.

Stay under 2k calories a day MAX, limit sugar and fat (watch the kinds of carbs your eating) and you will feel better all without anything different.

Also if your eating the right foods you don't need heaps of vitamins either. This way you can avoid pissing your stomach off.

Lastly - If anyone has chest pain don't think its indigestion w/o being told that by a doctor.

Kratom: Nature?s Gift to the Sick & Fit Alike
by Victor Lasato

In mankind?s never-ending quest to gain an edge over genetic limitations, feelings of discontent, and/or other members of the species, we often turn to doctors and their prescription pads to fill our medicine cabinets and ease our minds. Despite the massive pharmaceutical machine dominating modern medicine, Mother Nature is still a source and inspiration for modern medicines. Synthetic versions of human hormones are perhaps the best example for Mind & Muscle readers. Another excellent example is seen in the Opium Poppy and the dozens of natural and synthetic drugs that have been derived from it. However, unlike hormones and opiates, one very versatile source of pharmacologically active alkaloids, capable of producing three distinctly different effects, has flown under the radar (at least in our neck of the woods). Native to Thailand and Malaysia (and illegal in both countries as well as Australia), the leaves of the Kratom tree (Mitragyna speciosa) may be as close as modern medicine will get to the fabled panacea of patent-medicine days. The claims made on antique medicine bottles from the late nineteenth century, once laughable, may soon be laudable, and true.


Though heed this warning before reading on: Kratom is one plant that we do not want to see go the way of ephedra, GHB, and PH/PS supplements. Myself and other ethno-botanists envision fears of unethical chemists synthesizing 99% pure Mitragynine (Kratom?s major alkaloid) or other analogues; spawning a new generation of junkies free-basing and mainlining what could improve the quality of life for millions of people. Actually, we fear the pharmaceutical industry using their foot-soldier-senators along with the FDA will put the above scenario into the minds of millions of Americans. So please, for the love of mankind, for the love of what freedoms we have left, let?s not ruin this one too.

Pharmacology

Kratom contains over twenty different active alkaloids, the major one being the indole-alkaloid Mitragynine.1 Other alkaloids vary depending on the age and geographic origin of the plant. Specifically, studies of Kratom?s constituents has led to the isolation of several ?9-methoxy-Corynanthe-type monoterpenoid indole alkaloids.?1 Although the analgesic effects of Mitragynine resemble that of morphine (Mitragynine is approximately ? the potency of morphine1), structurally the alkaloids are similar to those found in the yohimbe tree (Corynanthe yohimbe). In fact, over twenty Corynanthe-type Oxyindole alkaloids have been found in Kratom leaves, explaining its differing effects at different doses. Yet why would alkaloids with stimulant, appetite suppressant, and vasodilating properties completely change their in vivo effects with larger doses, and activate kappa, delta, and mu opiate receptors?

The answer is pretty involved. Anyone who has experimented with various opiates knows that some knock you out (morphine, codeine), while others get you wired (hydrocodone, Buprenex, oxycodone). Even these effects differ from person to person. The effects of Mitragynine and several of its derivatives were completely reversed by the opiate antagonist naloxone,1 proving Mitragynine to be a potent opiate receptor agonist, though it?s not technically even an opiate.

Bodybuilding Applications & Dosages

For legal reasons, this section will be limited. I am not a doctor, and even if I were, I cannot claim ?if you take X amount of Kratom, Y will happen? without breaking any laws. That being said, as far as know (and I spent quite a bit of time looking) there are no laws against purchasing or selling Kratom for human consumption in the United States (there is conflicting information on this). However, like many other legal botanicals, it is not listed on the FDA?s GRAS list. There are currently five basic preparations of Kratom available on the Internet. The first, and cheapest, is crushed, dried leaf which contains ~2.5mg/g. of alkaloids. The second, resins, can vary drastically; not just in alkaloid concentration, but in alkaloid content as well. The reason being that some alkaloids are water soluble, while others are soluble in alcohol, and still others in acetic acid (yes, vinegar).

Resins are by far the easiest way to consume the herb, as they can be heated, rolled into different size balls, and swallowed. However, caution must be used as resins vary drastically between suppliers and even batches. Different vendors use different techniques to extract the resin. Some unscrupulous vendors even combine other plants into their resins to bring the prices down. Ironically though, the resin I found to be the most potent is also the least expensive.

Different retailers refer to different strength preparations by various names, so to maintain objectivity rather than advocate one retailer, I will refer to the different grades of powdered Kratom as: premium (~7mg/g.), enhanced premium (~12mg/g.) and super-enhanced, which can range from ~15-20mg/g. of Mitragynine. The latter two simply infuse Kratom Resin over the leaf to jack-up the alkaloid content. For safety?s sake, your best bet is to find one retailer you like and stick to them. And, the biggest retailer is not necessarily the best when it comes to Kratom.

There are three distinct dosing levels for Kratom: a light dose acts as a stimulant, both mentally and physically and also suppresses the appetite. The light dose by far has the most potential bodybuilding applications, especially if some of the industry?s great minds start formulating their ?proprietary blends.? This dosage ranges from 1-5 g. of dried leaf, depending on the grade and supplier. For more in-depth dosing guidelines, click here to read what Erowid.org has to say. Myself and others have found this dose to put one in a very focused state. It makes manual labor somewhat enjoyable and, combined with certain stimulant amino-acids such as L-tyrosine or ALCAR (NOT DLPA- we?ll discuss that later), is great for a workout.

The second dosing threshold is more suited for coming home after a hard day?s work and a grueling workout at the gym, and consists of approximately twice the ?light? dose. At this higher dose, Kratom has some crossover to the mu-opiate receptors, possibly responsible for its addictive properties. With the second and third dosing threshold, the addition of 200-500 mg. D,L-Phenylalanine significantly increases the analgesia and euphoria; it can also cause nausea and a bit of a crash afterwards. A higher dose can ease the mind, numb the pain of DOMS without the drawbacks of anti-inflammatory medications, and provide a legal alternative to people who like to catch a buzz, but don?t enjoy alcohol. A word of advice for those of you who are ?on?: there is really no information regarding hepatic or renal impairment from Kratom.

At the third and highest dosing threshold Kratom takes on disassociative effects, not unlike GHB or ketamine. Be warned though, there is no valid reason for using Kratom at such doses. No one knows how toxic it may or may not be. In addition, many people have reported severe tachycardia, paranoid delusions, and other effects that may bring about a trip to the emergency room. Never assume that just because you ate 5 grams of resin from supplier X, that you can eat five grams from supplier Y, or even the same dose from a different batch. If you?re going to go high dose with Kratom, resin is the obvious choice, along with some ginger for the nausea. And NEVER go at it alone.

Besides giving you an extra boost, or relieving the minor aches and pains of daily life, Kratom has stepped up to the plate and cleared the bases where even the strongest narcotics have struck out. Steven Abrahamson is a life-long fitness enthusiast who has been using dietary supplements since the industry first started expanding in the mid 90s. When his wife was diagnosed with Multiple Sclerosis in 2001, he redirected his efforts to find a natural way to help ease her pain and increase her quality of life. After much research and frustration with bogus and/or overpriced product as well as customs hassles Abrahamson added Kratom to his wife?s daily supplement regimen. He noted that it, ?seems to have a much better effect on her overall pain and is less harsh on her system while also simultaneously boosting energy levels. This has been a godsend as M.S. brings on the most intense fatigue I have ever seen.? Abrahmson added that, ?Kratom has allowed her to again live life with much less synthetic pain killers and a considerable amount more energy and overall quality [of life]. Kratom really has been a gift.? Abrahamson, like many others, emphasizes that although Kratom is a miracle plant for many people, retailers have a responsibility to keep government regulation out of the picture.

Abrahamson, and his partner Stan Leavy, frown on retail sites that make wide generalizations about Kratom. In effect, as Abrahamson puts it some sites are, ?slapping the FDA in the face by making wide medical claims on a retail site which may or may not be true about Kratom's use as a pharmaceutical replacement.? He adds that despite what many retailers are claiming about Kratom?s safety, he himself almost overdosed, and urges people to use the herb responsibly.

Is It Addicting?

Chronic use of Kratom, at any dose, is without a doubt habit forming. Whether Kratom is actually physically addicting is still up for debate, however Kratom chewers in Thailand tend to start in their mid to late thirties and stay addicted for an average of twenty years.3 With daily use comes tolerance and increased dosages, which correlate to more binding with the mu opiate receptors and a higher chance of addiction. Going back to pharmacology briefly, kappa and delta opiate receptors remain unchanged by chronic administration of opiate agonists, while mu receptors become drastically down-regulated causing tolerance and addiction4. This may explain why Kratom is believed to be addicting after years of use and constantly increasing dosages. The take-home lesson here, as with everything in life, is moderation; not just in consumption of Kratom but in how we discuss it, who we share it with, and exactly what we use it for. Another proprietor of Kratom, Mike Mills, is a daily Kratom user by his own admission, and has the following to say regarding its addictive potential ?I am not recommending that others should take it every day ? it is a personal choice. My own experience has been that Kratom is not highly physically addictive, but it can certainly be habit forming, and can cause mild discomfort if you stop taking it after continuous use for a while.?

Future Applications

Over the past thirty years, several derivatives of Mitragynine have been developed for various applications. 7-hydroxymitragynine, was found to act as an opioid agonist with higher potency than that of morphine.2,5 Another derivative, Mitragynine Pseudoindoxyl, first synthesized in 1974, has a higher affinity to bind to opiate receptors than morphine, and a ten-fold greater binding affinity than Mitragynine.2 Only time will tell whether or not these interesting compounds find their way into our medicine cabinets, become demonized street drugs, or merely remain in the annals of medical literature. One thing is certain though: with commercially available Kratom becoming increasingly potent, Kratom will inevitably gain unwanted attention.

References
Uncut version: http://www.mindandmuscle.net/mindand...p?artID=999394

Wicky said:

I 100% agree with what you say about what the dietery supplement industry gets away with. When I first took the kratom leaf, I had a busted up wrist and the store across the street was out of Advil. With a full on doubting Thomas attitude, I took it as a last result for the pain I had going on. I couldn't fucking believe that it worked so well and I scratched my head thinking to myself, this is too good to be true. I have been beat up my entire life on MX bikes, football fields, ski slopes, etc... and now I am nearly 50 and all the broken bones and abuse has caught up to me. I used to live on Ibuprofen and I am sure that it has done plenty of internal organ damage as it feels like needles in my guts when I take it as well as making me sick to my stomach. I'm sure right now big pharma is going holy shit, this kratom stuff really works and they are stealing our market. As human beings, we suffer from plenty of painful ailments. I am here to try and help those in pain as I was. Nothing more nothing less. I have helped thousands already and so many people thank me for giving them their lives back. I'm no doctor but, I have seen with my own two eyes how much kratom has helped others. Like I said above, starting next week we will be the only Kratom company in the world that will have the GMP stamp. This was no easy endeavor as it has taken a long time to get this certification.
If you are taken prescriptions for pain or other OTCs, kratom, IMO, is an excellent alternative.

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I've found a mixed bag of results with Kratom.. For the past few years, I occasionally take it as a sleep aid - 2 pills and I'm out within 30 minutes. Have friend who swears it gives him energy & another who doesn't claim any results. My original use for Kratom was to kick using Tramadol & it did that exceptionally well. I was able to get off the Tramadol within just a couple days & don't feel any sort of addiction to the Kratom. One thing I'm certain of though, if big pharma was scared of it, they would either buy into it & kill off the competition or squash it in a heartbeat.

Faceaz
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Hmmmmmmm....do I dare take Faceaz of my ignore list to see what he has written>?

Wicky, it sounds like you have a credible product that you truly believe in and are bringing to the market the right way.
Good for you and I hope you have excellent results.:thumbsup

Wicky said:

Faceaz
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Hmmmmmmm....do I dare take Faceaz of my ignore list to see what he has written>?

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I didn't read it as anything bad or negative,it helped him.

Gelcoater said:

I didn't read it as anything bad or negative,it helped him.

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Awesome...that is great news...we have had our differences politically speaking and thus the ignore button...sorry facaez, I take back 3verything I said about you minus the political shit 8)

Faceaz said:

I've found a mixed bag of results with Kratom.. For the past few years, I occasionally take it as a sleep aid - 2 pills and I'm out within 30 minutes. Have friend who swears it gives him energy & another who doesn't claim any results. My original use for Kratom was to kick using Tramadol & it did that exceptionally well. I was able to get off the Tramadol within just a couple days & don't feel any sort of addiction to the Kratom. One thing I'm certain of though, if big pharma was scared of it, they would either buy into it & kill off the competition or squash it in a heartbeat.

Click to expand...

Wicky said:

Faceaz
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Hmmmmmmm....do I dare take Faceaz of my ignore list to see what he has written>?

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I quoted him so you can see it Wicky

rivrrts429 said:

I quoted him so you can see it Wicky

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Isn't the whole point of ignoring someone...never mind, this is the internet after all.

Big pharma is buying into kratom as Glaxo Smith Kline has now synthesized the alkaloid and has applied for the patent.

OCMerrill said:

Isn't the whole point of ignoring someone...never mind, this is the internet after all.

Click to expand...

OCMerrill said:

Isn't the whole point of ignoring someone...never mind, this is the internet after all.

Click to expand...

Pump your brakes Deputy Internet

It was actually harmless so I went ahead and quoted. Faceaz had good info. Otherwise... your point was taken.

OCMerrill said:

About last Feb I stopped drinking Beer completely. I quit nearly all fast food and became accustomed to Subway (not a huge fan but its calorie controlled). I no longer eat anything past 7 pm and earlier if I can help it.

I have been drinking Muscle Milk Light and eating Pure Protein bars trying to keep all sugars under 5%. Eating as health as I can stand it. I am getting tired of chicken though.

In 6 months I have lost 50 lbs and I CAN'T exercise because of all the Heart meds I take to control arrhythmia.

No fad diet, no stimulants (actually could kill me) no exercise regiment.

Stay under 2k calories a day MAX, limit sugar and fat (watch the kinds of carbs your eating) and you will feel better all without anything different.

Also if your eating the right foods you don't need heaps of vitamins either. This way you can avoid pissing your stomach off.

Lastly - If anyone has chest pain don't think its indigestion w/o being told that by a doctor.

Click to expand...

Congratulations on your weight loss !! I hope you maintain your desired weight !!..However, The names of the foods that you eat and the time of day or night that you consume them have nothing to do with the effect on your body composition. You lost weight because you consumed less calories than you burned.Period. A rational diet composed of mostly whole, minimally processed foods, that insures micronutrient and macronutrient sufficiency with any remaining calories being discretionary. Minimum requirements are: Protein 0.6-0.8 grams per lb.of body weight. Fat 0.45 grams per lb. of body weight. Remaining calories are purely a matter of personal preference.

I thought cancer was gonna be number one. Turns out it's right behind heart disease...

http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/fastats/leading-causes-of-death.htm

• Heart disease: 597,689
• Cancer: 574,743
• Chronic lower respiratory diseases: 138,080
• Stroke (cerebrovascular diseases): 129,476
• Accidents (unintentional injuries): 120,859
• Alzheimer's disease: 83,494
• Diabetes: 69,071
• Nephritis, nephrotic syndrome, and nephrosis: 50,476
• Influenza and Pneumonia: 50,097
• Intentional self-harm (suicide): 38,364

If you are living an unhealthy lifestyle? There is no magic pill to make it all better.JusSayn..

Works great for the joint pain I get working out, no more advil before/after.

Old age isn't pretty.

Been trying not to eat as much as I normally do also, helps on that front.

Just placed a large order after going through Wicky's samples.:thumbup: