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Common Core

IN AWE

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Real quick add 170 and 220 in your head......

Another way is to add 200 plus 200 and subtract 10. Numbers greater than 5 you base up and subtract, numbers lower than 5 you base down and add. It is easier to add and subtract small numbers in one's head than large numbers so base 10 turns it all into small numbers.

It is how I was taught in the mid and late 60's math before calculators. It makes it easier to add big numbers like 10,465 plus 62,982 in your head without pencil and paper.

Or add 70 + 20 + 300, or ????? My point being that there is no "right" way now, that it is open to interpretation. In the 70's we had to "show our math".

Correct answer is, I don't care how you get it. This is how you right it.

170
+220
----------- or 170 + 220 = 390
390
 

Gelcoater

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Or add 70 + 20 + 300, or ????? My point being that there is no "right" way now, that it is open to interpretation. In the 70's we had to "show our math".

Correct answer is, I don't care how you get it. This is how you right it.

2+2=5;)
And it's write;)
 

rivermobster

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1) Public education is a mess because a small percentage of parents don't value education or don't value their children enough to demand the children attend and pay attention. Because of this, the vast bulk of kids in school are getting harmed by this small percentage as the small percentage takes up a vast amount of resources. Until those children can be legally removed from the system, US education will lag other developed countries that do not tolerate or waste resources on dis-interested students.

You really think a "small percentage" of kids is a problem for the rest of the kids?? There have been dumbass's and bullies and there always will be. As a parent, your job is to teach your kids how to deal with them. (my solution is martial arts...my kids don't take Any shit!)

2) Public education should be available but not mandatory. If the system did not have to deal with number 1 above, achievement would soar.

Same answer as above. Teach your kids how to deal with this. It is NOT the teachers job!!!

3) There needs to be a core curriculum not based upon politics but science. The concept of a common core is correct, the implementation is as difficult as the political section of this site. People want their views to be taught and not the other views and vice versa. For example, we should teach that we are a constitutional republic and not a democracy but at the same time we should not teach evolution as the truth is creationism. On the other side, we should teach that we are a democracy and that the second amendment limits gun rights. So any attempt to solve the "curriculum" issue or a establish a "common curriculum" is doomed to failure as humans are absolutely incapable of agreeing on how the earth and man came about let alone anything else.

I don't see any need to teach ideals in school. History yes, and what the constitution is about, yes. How the laws affect people?? I would say those should be college classes, not grade school. Keep your opinions to yourself in grade school.


4) I don't understand the problem with "teaching to the test". In math class, they should teach math and then the students knowledge about how to do math is tested. If you don't teach math in math class, i.e. teach to the test, what should you teach in math class? History? The purpose of basic education is to teach basic subjects, not build a whole child (which really means build a whole child who thinks like "me" and believes what "I" believe). How about we teach math in math class, history in history class, welding in welding class and have a test on the subjects they are supposed to learn? The other stuff is for the home.

Agree

So yeah, I believe there should be a common core based upon common subjects. I think that it should be written in a way that helps the child be prepared to apply these basic core understandings to more complex subjects necessary to develop critical thinking and problem solving skills to support themselves. This is why the business community supports the concept of a "common core". But I also believe that humans are incapable of objectively doing that and so common core will not create any meaningful additional achievement.

You seem to have a very low view of humans. I find that quite interesting.

The fight over it will however come at the expense of America's competitiveness.

This is a whole different subject. And yet, you have not addressed the real issue of this program being forced down everyones throat monetarily! Do you really think this is ok? If so, why do you feel that way??

Or do you just feel humans are to stupid to figure stuff out on their own, so they must be force fed an agenda, regardless if it is right or wrong.


Sorry I used the doctors colors, they just show up well on my laptop. :D
 

RodnJen

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Didn't run away just had better things to do. As is often the case discussing important issues like this, in a forum like this, can go sideways quickly. The problems with education in America are endless because the problems with adults in America are endless. What happens with a subject like CC is that people that have a different political perspective or religious stance use issues like this demonize one group while attempting to pat themselves in the back for their own decisions.

I don't know that it is perfect, but what we were doing before isn't working, things change. There is less of a need for cursive because of the huge impact of technology on our children. I want my kids to have great penmanship but there are only so many hours in the classroom. I would rather the qualified teacher spend the time on bigger, better issues.

Back to the perspective thing. I have a friend (30 year friendship) that works for the Diocese in NorCal. It is his dream job. He gets to serve his faith and pursue his profession. His is writer/media type. He posed the question to a number of us, many teachers, who he grew up with. He is anti-Federal government and thinks that Michelle Obama will be dictating his lunch habits, you know the type. The overwhelming majority of the teachers were not against the curriculum, nor did any of them bring up the "tracking" of children. Now that being said, they are not necessarily all on board either. Any improvement of this kind will take time. The people from our elementary school days tend to be more liberal for whatever reason. The ones from college, more conservative. After all, it was the Reagan years and his visit to CSUF in 1988 was pretty damn exciting. Even the conservative teachers are giving it a chance. EXCEPT for the ones that our devoutly religious, there seems to be little room for discussion with them.

His choice was to pose the scenario as if he was a victim, which I see all too often these days. Once he listend to people in the know, he changed his tune. Don't ge me wrong, he is not on board, but he is not on a dozen websites playing the victim.

There was a reference earlier to having and unfavorable view of people, or something like that. I usually don't, but in the context of the school system, I find myself being more judgmental every day. The lack of parental involvement, their (parents) inability fo follow simple rules, how the walk-talk-dress, etc. is a very sad commentary on our society. Teachers have a tough job as it is, when you mix in the f-ups that are the parents it gets even worse. The economic divide and cultural diversity are only exacerbating the problem.

Like I said, the jury is still out for me but I'm giving it a chance because my kids deserve that chance.
 

rivermobster

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I guess I see your point. Since the USA is arguably the most advanced country in the world, I can see how that translates into our school systems need to be changed.

And since the main argument is poor parenting, it also make sense we can fix that at the school level too.

Some of you have become one with the Borg.
 

BigSteve

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To be a winner in education system you need to learn the rules of the game.

Politics is everything ! From the Federal grant money to fund research the RFP's to the SOQ's
for the university's big research projects

The better the university's ranking the better the cuts of beef from the Federal cash cow!

View points account for 7.5 % to a university's overall ranking! All left leaning to get money from the UN
in the save the world. The USA picks up a good chunk of the tap.

Only 2.5 % for industries that support research almost 100% ! for places like Cal tech. Korea, Japan ect

University's are ranked by the highest standards from the students GPA to SAT scores, IQ overall ranking.

For your kid to enter the education game they must understand what Newton wrote down as a 17 year old kid. Calculus and Physics
2+2 =4 ok I prefer RPN (reverse polish notation) 2 ent 2 + 4 is in the register for advanced math problems using a engineering calculator.

Creative writing exercises should be centered around leaning to outline and write a good RFP for university grants !
 

530RL

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1) Public education is a mess because a small percentage of parents don't value education or don't value their children enough to demand the children attend and pay attention. Because of this, the vast bulk of kids in school are getting harmed by this small percentage as the small percentage takes up a vast amount of resources. Until those children can be legally removed from the system, US education will lag other developed countries that do not tolerate or waste resources on dis-interested students.

You really think a "small percentage" of kids is a problem for the rest of the kids?? There have been dumbass's and bullies and there always will be. As a parent, your job is to teach your kids how to deal with them. (my solution is martial arts...my kids don't take Any shit!)

2) Public education should be available but not mandatory. If the system did not have to deal with number 1 above, achievement would soar.

Same answer as above. Teach your kids how to deal with this. It is NOT the teachers job!!!

3) There needs to be a core curriculum not based upon politics but science. The concept of a common core is correct, the implementation is as difficult as the political section of this site. People want their views to be taught and not the other views and vice versa. For example, we should teach that we are a constitutional republic and not a democracy but at the same time we should not teach evolution as the truth is creationism. On the other side, we should teach that we are a democracy and that the second amendment limits gun rights. So any attempt to solve the "curriculum" issue or a establish a "common curriculum" is doomed to failure as humans are absolutely incapable of agreeing on how the earth and man came about let alone anything else.

I don't see any need to teach ideals in school. History yes, and what the constitution is about, yes. How the laws affect people?? I would say those should be college classes, not grade school. Keep your opinions to yourself in grade school.


4) I don't understand the problem with "teaching to the test". In math class, they should teach math and then the students knowledge about how to do math is tested. If you don't teach math in math class, i.e. teach to the test, what should you teach in math class? History? The purpose of basic education is to teach basic subjects, not build a whole child (which really means build a whole child who thinks like "me" and believes what "I" believe). How about we teach math in math class, history in history class, welding in welding class and have a test on the subjects they are supposed to learn? The other stuff is for the home.

Agree

So yeah, I believe there should be a common core based upon common subjects. I think that it should be written in a way that helps the child be prepared to apply these basic core understandings to more complex subjects necessary to develop critical thinking and problem solving skills to support themselves. This is why the business community supports the concept of a "common core". But I also believe that humans are incapable of objectively doing that and so common core will not create any meaningful additional achievement.

You seem to have a very low view of humans. I find that quite interesting.

The fight over it will however come at the expense of America's competitiveness.

This is a whole different subject. And yet, you have not addressed the real issue of this program being forced down everyones throat monetarily! Do you really think this is ok? If so, why do you feel that way??

Or do you just feel humans are to stupid to figure stuff out on their own, so they must be force fed an agenda, regardless if it is right or wrong.


Sorry I used the doctors colors, they just show up well on my laptop. :D

Holy shit, pick on Rodney King day huh?

OK, one at a time.

With respect to number one. School, society and America has changed. You are roughly my age. Kids were spanked in school, they were disciplined. Parents supported teachers and administrators. More than once I was caught up in something that I did not do, but I took the fall with others. My parents did not go to the school on my behalf, they told me I should not have been there. They said life was not always fair, deal with it, that rarely happens today. If you spouted off, you had to copy a page of the dictionary and you were expected to turn it in. Take a stroll through schools today.

School environments or school cultures that have high expectations on all levels have high outcomes on all levels. There will always be dumb asses and bullies as you say, but it is no longer dealt with in as an effective way as it once was. Society will no longer allow it.

When my father was President of the Arizona State Board of Education, a senior failed a class necessary to graduate. Never showed up, never turned in work. In order to graduate, she had to do summer school and she would not graduate with the class. So, she along with her parents sued everyone from the teacher up to pops. The result is they gave her a D. Not the right outcome but cheaper than fighting. It was the wrong decision for the kid, but the right decision for the budget.

i was kicked out of public school at the end of the 7th grade for "behavioral" issues. In essence being a pain in the ass. That could not happen today.

But let's talk about your big point.

You seem to have a very low view of humans. I find that quite interesting.

I can see how you come to that conclusion but nothing is further from the truth. I believe in humans much more than most in the Political Section. I just believe humans are driven by self interest. Self interest is antithetical to the common good.

It is the self interest of those who believe that the second amendment does not support gun ownership, to teach that the second amendment does not support gun ownership.

People on this site talk about takers and lazy people and libtards. Why would anyone work for 400 bucks a week and pay taxes when they can get 350 a week and free healthcare. Human interest says taking the welfare is much better. Humans are smart, they make choices based upon self interest. I think policies that give someone 350 a week and free healthcare rob humans of the self dignity of caring for themselves, but self interest is what it is.

People also honestly believe what they are saying. Human want the low cost of WalMart but high wages for themselves and they honestly believe that is not inconsistent.

Let's make it personal. You are a great mechanic and someone comes to your shop, you want 100 bucks for x but the guy says pep boys will do it for 50. You say your work is better and you believe that. The manager at Pep Boys believes and his mechanic believes their work is superior. We can objectively say that your work is better but that does not change the fact that the guys at Pep Boys will pass a lie detector test that their work is better. I understand most people do not believe they will pass a lie detector test to this factual inaccuracy, but it is true and that is self interest.

Once people understand that RodnJen and the Classic Daycruiser and Squeezer before them will pass a lie detector test that what they are saying is the absolute truth, it becomes very easy to understand, but be labeled a cynic or someone who has a low view of humans.

This is a whole different subject. And yet, you have not addressed the real issue of this program being forced down everyones throat monetarily! Do you really think this is ok? If so, why do you feel that way??

Or do you just feel humans are to stupid to figure stuff out on their own, so they must be force fed an agenda, regardless if it is right or wrong.


Shit has been forced down humans throats since the beginning of time. I choose to participate in change I believe in the best way I can, but I understand that the opposition honestly believes what they are selling. They honestly believe (insert whatever issue one is in disagreement on) is not a cram down your throat but for your self betterment. I completely disagree with them, but no one want to make me King.

Now for the last point. My solution would be that every person gets a voucher to go wherever they want. Take away the financial risk from the parent and make parents in charge of raising and educating their children, not the government. Humans are smart and self interested. With a voucher, those who value education will go to the hardest schools with the highest educational outcomes, others who do not believe in education will follow their honest self interest and send their kids to the school that is easier and has lower educational outcomes.

Now, back to my scotch and cigar because I pay for my own healthcare.
 

JBS

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Now for the last point. My solution would be that every person gets a voucher to go wherever they want. Take away the financial risk from the parent and make parents in charge of raising and educating their children, not the government. Humans are smart and self interested. With a voucher, those who value education will go to the hardest schools with the highest educational outcomes, others who do not believe in education will follow their honest self interest and send their kids :Dto the school that is easier and has lower educational outcomes.

Now, back to my scotch and cigar because I pay for my own healthcare.

RK you are on a roll tonight :thumbsup

I like the voucher idea. Especially since my kid will most likely end up in the humble little school PCDS down the street from your house :cool

Heading to Parker tomorrow for the weekend. Lets get together next week and solve some problems. I am a bachelor for the next month :D

Now back to my Crown :drink
 

530RL

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I think you are being fed misinformation. Do you have kids in school? I do. They are in a charter school that is one of the best schools in the State. They unfortunately are coming home with number lines. Crap that we can't figure out but if we go back to the basic written methods taught from way back when it's easy. This goes as deep as UN Agenda 21. Gotta do some research on it. The stuff is bad.

With that said even if it was good proven tried and true methods and there was no politics involved Id still disagree with it. Why? Because we don't need everyone to have a PhD. If everyone does then we are all common. We need to have metal, wood, and auto shop etc. Basic math as well as advanced. Let's parents and teachers recognize that Johnny just isn't brilliant in academia but could rebuild a 4 barrel Holley with his hands tied behind his back. This is what has done us right and fueled the industrial revolution. And Jimmy can be smart enough to go to college and own the auto dealership that Johnny works at.

Dumbing the kids down has brought us the wonders of ESL and things like the LA Unified School District.

Look at it beyond California. A few states resisted and of the rest who said yeah then 43 I think it is already have bills or are working on bills to get rid of it. They said yes only because of the fed money but quickly realized they were duped not only is it crap but (I forget the exact numbers but to paint the picture) it is something like 15 billion to implement yet the promises funding ends up being 10 billion.

You have some good points here.

I do not have any children. However, I was the President of the State Board for Charter Schools in Arizona and my father was the President of the State Board of Education in Arizona. My wife and I also contribute to some less economically fortunate children to attend private school. I think that shows that 1) we both care about education and 2) we have some real life policy experiences in these subjects.

With respect to your point on the fact that not all children should end up in college, I could not agree with you more. I started and run a foundation for Arizona DPS and our scholarship program covers dependent children going to 1) a tuition based high school, 2) any trade school that leads to career improvement or career opportunity and 3) to college students. Your point is spot on. In many cases one can generate a better living for themselves and their families with skills and education other than college. We gave out 36 scholarships this year.

The math issues outlined above are not "new" techniques and even if you work on Holley Carbs (a lost art) or end up doing welding, fundamental math skills without a calculator are important. Any technique to teach a kid math, is not dumbing it down. No matter what you do, you can not get enough math. It is used every day from buying groceries to how you pay for your car or roof over your head.

Once you go to Agenda 21 you lose me. I understand Agenda 21 and I have never heard it mentioned in any meeting or conference relating to educational at the local, state or national level.

As I stated in a previous post and I think you agree from above, federal or for that matter local control of education opens it up to political whims. That is why I support parents receiving a voucher and choosing what is best for their children.

Happy to hear your kids are in a charter school. There are some great charter schools, (Basis is in the top ten in the country) and the ability to chose should be available to all parents.
 

rivermobster

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Holy shit, pick on Rodney King day huh?

OK, one at a time.

With respect to number one. School, society and America has changed. You are roughly my age. Kids were spanked in school, they were disciplined. Parents supported teachers and administrators. More than once I was caught up in something that I did not do, but I took the fall with others. My parents did not go to the school on my behalf, they told me I should not have been there. They said life was not always fair, deal with it, that rarely happens today. If you spouted off, you had to copy a page of the dictionary and you were expected to turn it in. Take a stroll through schools today.

School environments or school cultures that have high expectations on all levels have high outcomes on all levels. There will always be dumb asses and bullies as you say, but it is no longer dealt with in as an effective way as it once was. Society will no longer allow it.

When my father was President of the Arizona State Board of Education, a senior failed a class necessary to graduate. Never showed up, never turned in work. In order to graduate, she had to do summer school and she would not graduate with the class. So, she along with her parents sued everyone from the teacher up to pops. The result is they gave her a D. Not the right outcome but cheaper than fighting. It was the wrong decision for the kid, but the right decision for the budget.

i was kicked out of public school at the end of the 7th grade for "behavioral" issues. In essence being a pain in the ass. That could not happen today.

But let's talk about your big point.

You seem to have a very low view of humans. I find that quite interesting.

I can see how you come to that conclusion but nothing is further from the truth. I believe in humans much more than most in the Political Section. I just believe humans are driven by self interest. Self interest is antithetical to the common good.

It is the self interest of those who believe that the second amendment does not support gun ownership, to teach that the second amendment does not support gun ownership.

People on this site talk about takers and lazy people and libtards. Why would anyone work for 400 bucks a week and pay taxes when they can get 350 a week and free healthcare. Human interest says taking the welfare is much better. Humans are smart, they make choices based upon self interest. I think policies that give someone 350 a week and free healthcare rob humans of the self dignity of caring for themselves, but self interest is what it is.

People also honestly believe what they are saying. Human want the low cost of WalMart but high wages for themselves and they honestly believe that is not inconsistent.

Let's make it personal. You are a great mechanic and someone comes to your shop, you want 100 bucks for x but the guy says pep boys will do it for 50. You say your work is better and you believe that. The manager at Pep Boys believes and his mechanic believes their work is superior. We can objectively say that your work is better but that does not change the fact that the guys at Pep Boys will pass a lie detector test that their work is better. I understand most people do not believe they will pass a lie detector test to this factual inaccuracy, but it is true and that is self interest.

Once people understand that RodnJen and the Classic Daycruiser and Squeezer before them will pass a lie detector test that what they are saying is the absolute truth, it becomes very easy to understand, but be labeled a cynic or someone who has a low view of humans.

This is a whole different subject. And yet, you have not addressed the real issue of this program being forced down everyones throat monetarily! Do you really think this is ok? If so, why do you feel that way??

Or do you just feel humans are to stupid to figure stuff out on their own, so they must be force fed an agenda, regardless if it is right or wrong.


Shit has been forced down humans throats since the beginning of time. I choose to participate in change I believe in the best way I can, but I understand that the opposition honestly believes what they are selling. They honestly believe (insert whatever issue one is in disagreement on) is not a cram down your throat but for your self betterment. I completely disagree with them, but no one want to make me King.

Now for the last point. My solution would be that every person gets a voucher to go wherever they want. Take away the financial risk from the parent and make parents in charge of raising and educating their children, not the government. Humans are smart and self interested. With a voucher, those who value education will go to the hardest schools with the highest educational outcomes, others who do not believe in education will follow their honest self interest and send their kids to the school that is easier and has lower educational outcomes.

Now, back to my scotch and cigar because I pay for my own healthcare.

Outfuckingstanding post!!!

Tonight was back to school night for our kids, and I went and got edumacated.

I want to reply with what I learned tonight, but right now I just don't have time.

In my best Arnold voice:

I'll be back...
 

VoodooMedMan

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You have some good points here.

I do not have any children. However, I was the President of the State Board for Charter Schools in Arizona and my father was the President of the State Board of Education in Arizona. My wife and I also contribute to some less economically fortunate children to attend private school. I think that shows that 1) we both care about education and 2) we have some real life policy experiences in these subjects.

With respect to your point on the fact that not all children should end up in college, I could not agree with you more. I started and run a foundation for Arizona DPS and our scholarship program covers dependent children going to 1) a tuition based high school, 2) any trade school that leads to career improvement or career opportunity and 3) to college students. Your point is spot on. In many cases one can generate a better living for themselves and their families with skills and education other than college. We gave out 36 scholarships this year.

The math issues outlined above are not "new" techniques and even if you work on Holley Carbs (a lost art) or end up doing welding, fundamental math skills without a calculator are important. Any technique to teach a kid math, is not dumbing it down. No matter what you do, you can not get enough math. It is used every day from buying groceries to how you pay for your car or roof over your head.

Once you go to Agenda 21 you lose me. I understand Agenda 21 and I have never heard it mentioned in any meeting or conference relating to educational at the local, state or national level.

As I stated in a previous post and I think you agree from above, federal or for that matter local control of education opens it up to political whims. That is why I support parents receiving a voucher and choosing what is best for their children.

Happy to hear your kids are in a charter school. There are some great charter schools, (Basis is in the top ten in the country) and the ability to chose should be available to all parents.

The problem with the math is there are equations that are in the books to be solved using the provided number lines and such and high ranking math professors cannot figure out. I'm all for figuring out different ways. He'll I'm the most backwards way math person I know. But I get the job done.

Agenda 21 ties are there. I just don't have the time to pull up the info right now not so I want to railroad this discussion. Is be glad to take that offline if you are interested though.

Local control is fine. Our communities know best. If you don't like it then vote or find a better community to move to. We actually plan to move. Hate to leave the school behind though. However there are things we dislike about it but that comes from state garbage and now common core.

Vouchers would be good too but will never work in government because of the money. Same as local control though, you just don't have to move but rather find a way to get your kid to a school further away.

Back to common core itself. I could go on all day. The invasive testing practices were already mentioned but I do opt my kids out. Nobody has hit on any moral things either or the sex ed and gay stuff they are sneaking into the kids as young as kindergarten.

I appreciate what you are doing with the board of education. I'm sure you are studying up a bit. My problem with a lot of educators and their opinion is it's so new that they are only spouting off what they are hearing in the meetings given by the administrators selling it to them. Not a ton of experience with it yet and not researching what's really all coming.

When I had a meeting with my kids principal she had to bring in the testing coordinator. I was actually pleased with the principal who listened to what we had to say and addressed out concerns. This other broad was just defending common core from the admin book like I was attacking her personally. Tried to twist my words. I went in armed with knowledge and blew her away. Respectfully of course and diverted my attention to the principal who really had a say in things and signed off on my kids being opted out.
 

rivermobster

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Holy shit, pick on Rodney King day huh?

OK, one at a time.

With respect to number one. School, society and America has changed. You are roughly my age. Kids were spanked in school, they were disciplined. Parents supported teachers and administrators. More than once I was caught up in something that I did not do, but I took the fall with others. My parents did not go to the school on my behalf, they told me I should not have been there. They said life was not always fair, deal with it, that rarely happens today. If you spouted off, you had to copy a page of the dictionary and you were expected to turn it in. Take a stroll through schools today.

School environments or school cultures that have high expectations on all levels have high outcomes on all levels. There will always be dumb asses and bullies as you say, but it is no longer dealt with in as an effective way as it once was. Society will no longer allow it.

When my father was President of the Arizona State Board of Education, a senior failed a class necessary to graduate. Never showed up, never turned in work. In order to graduate, she had to do summer school and she would not graduate with the class. So, she along with her parents sued everyone from the teacher up to pops. The result is they gave her a D. Not the right outcome but cheaper than fighting. It was the wrong decision for the kid, but the right decision for the budget.

i was kicked out of public school at the end of the 7th grade for "behavioral" issues. In essence being a pain in the ass. That could not happen today.

But let's talk about your big point.

You seem to have a very low view of humans. I find that quite interesting.

I can see how you come to that conclusion but nothing is further from the truth. I believe in humans much more than most in the Political Section. I just believe humans are driven by self interest. Self interest is antithetical to the common good.

It is the self interest of those who believe that the second amendment does not support gun ownership, to teach that the second amendment does not support gun ownership.

People on this site talk about takers and lazy people and libtards. Why would anyone work for 400 bucks a week and pay taxes when they can get 350 a week and free healthcare. Human interest says taking the welfare is much better. Humans are smart, they make choices based upon self interest. I think policies that give someone 350 a week and free healthcare rob humans of the self dignity of caring for themselves, but self interest is what it is.

People also honestly believe what they are saying. Human want the low cost of WalMart but high wages for themselves and they honestly believe that is not inconsistent.

Let's make it personal. You are a great mechanic and someone comes to your shop, you want 100 bucks for x but the guy says pep boys will do it for 50. You say your work is better and you believe that. The manager at Pep Boys believes and his mechanic believes their work is superior. We can objectively say that your work is better but that does not change the fact that the guys at Pep Boys will pass a lie detector test that their work is better. I understand most people do not believe they will pass a lie detector test to this factual inaccuracy, but it is true and that is self interest.

Once people understand that RodnJen and the Classic Daycruiser and Squeezer before them will pass a lie detector test that what they are saying is the absolute truth, it becomes very easy to understand, but be labeled a cynic or someone who has a low view of humans.

This is a whole different subject. And yet, you have not addressed the real issue of this program being forced down everyones throat monetarily! Do you really think this is ok? If so, why do you feel that way??

Or do you just feel humans are to stupid to figure stuff out on their own, so they must be force fed an agenda, regardless if it is right or wrong.


Shit has been forced down humans throats since the beginning of time. I choose to participate in change I believe in the best way I can, but I understand that the opposition honestly believes what they are selling. They honestly believe (insert whatever issue one is in disagreement on) is not a cram down your throat but for your self betterment. I completely disagree with them, but no one want to make me King.

Now for the last point. My solution would be that every person gets a voucher to go wherever they want. Take away the financial risk from the parent and make parents in charge of raising and educating their children, not the government. Humans are smart and self interested. With a voucher, those who value education will go to the hardest schools with the highest educational outcomes, others who do not believe in education will follow their honest self interest and send their kids to the school that is easier and has lower educational outcomes.

Now, back to my scotch and cigar because I pay for my own healthcare.

Your point is well taken on what people believe. I really like that you made that point...

So let me help you out here with a couple of things, since what I believe/know is valid as well. ;)

There is a kid in Boy Scouts with my son. He has been kicked out of every grade school here in Glendora!!! He has the record for being the youngest kid ever put into continuation school here. And he is damm proud of that. You see, he is a VERY bright kid. I have talked to him on many different occasions. He knows he is welcome at my house and he is also friends with my daughter. I also know his entire family quite well. If you sat down to talk to him, you would think you are talking to an adult. He is wise beyond his years. He constantly fucks with the teachers and it pisses them off. the Reality is, he is bored to tears with school. Why am I telling you this??

Your perception on kids not being kicked out of school is wrong. (my best friend teaches continuation high school, his classes are not lacking for students.)

Your perception on discipline is wrong. Teachers can't get physical with kids anymore, but they sure as hell can dish out the heat. I HAVE KIDS. I know what their teachers have told them, and I have talked to their teachers. The teachers are more than willing to discipline the kids.

Society will not tolerate bullies? Lets say that it true, but the bullies missed that memo. Did you not read what happened to TPC's kid? His parents moved him to a different school. My son used to get picked on till I put him in martial arts. He has no issues with bullies at all any more, but he tells me they have moved just moved on to easier targets.

I guess the bottom line for you is, you have become accustomed to just going with the flow and having shit just forced down your throat. That's you, and that's ok! Cause you believe it to be ok. ;)

Me, I live by a different code that you. Mine is...

"I was told it couldn't be done, so I went ahead and did it anyway". This is the reality I live by.

__________________________________


Now for last night...

The parents all met in the gym. After the principal came to the podium, the first thing he did was have everyone stand, and he led us in the Pledge of Allegiance. Fuck yeah!!!!!!!!! Many of us applauded right after. :thumbup:

We then spent 10 min in each class our kids attended. Ruining around from class to class, just like they do during the day. I Ran into a ton of people I knew! From old jobs, Boy Scouts, current friends and made some new ones. It was a very enjoyable night for me.

Every teacher I met had been with GHS well over ten years. One guy had been there 18! The all had teaching backgrounds from college and grade school. They all seemed very well rounded, and very happy with their teaching careers. I had two teachers tell me my daughter was the bright spot in their classrooms. When I told my daughter that, she said "thats cause I'm the only person what asks any questions!!!". We didn't raise her to be shy. ;)

I asked about common core and they said it had been implemented for the first time this year, but in a very limited fashion. They said they may someday phase in all of the concepts, but for now, its a very limited thing so they can see how it works.

One teacher said...

"It's hard for me. I'm used to teaching with my mouth, telling the kids the things then need to know. Now I have to step back and let them do all the work. Looking in the books for answers and just helping them along when they need it. It's a very different concept to me"

I also asked if they were collecting any information from the kids. They all looked at me funny and said "what do you mean?". When I explained that I wanted to know if the common core curriculum required them to ask any kind of Personal questions, they said "oh! no not at all". I was happy to hear that from them. :)

I have to say I was more than impressed with how back to school night went down. I was impressed with the teachers and the principal as well. It was a HUGE difference from the back to school grammar school nights!

I have to say my daughter must take after her dad, since I was the only one asking questions in class last night.

_________________________

In closing, I would have to say that even though your views are correct, since you don't have kids and only work on an administrative level, you are missing out on the big picture.

I have two kids in high school, who I talk to daily about what Really goes on. And they are not afraid to tell me.

I work with Boy Scouts, watching kids go from kids to young men. It is rewarding beyond words I can say.

I am very much in touch with the kids in our town, from the best to the worst! And I see no need to change OUR school system.

My suggestion to you would be to get involved with the kids on a very personal level. I think you will find it to be a rewarding experience, and change your reality in BIG way.

:)
 

Old Texan

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Curriculum is all about the kids until reality hits and then it ain't about the kids at all.....The kids are only someone's means to a desired end.
 

Racer56

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Last night was my daughters back to school night and to say the least I was dumbfounded. First off, my daughter is an identified GATE student and is in her first year of middle school (6th grade). The school year has started off with total chaos, as LAUSD at the last minute tried to comply with a lawsuit from 1996 requiring total transparency. The new computer program MISIS was implemented and subsequently lost the records of most incoming students, resulting in my daughter being placed in all of the wrong classes. My daughters class schedule was rectified the end of the second week of school and she was placed in all honors classes where she belonged, but now she is two weeks behind the rest of the class. Luckily for her, all of her teachers are accommodating the last minute class changes for many of their students. LAUSD yet again receives an "F" for poor execution and sheer stupidity!

We were also informed that there is absolutely no funding for the GATE program this year in LAUSD. There are only three types of identified children in LAUSD. Special education, English Second Language and Gifted And Talented. The first two, Special Ed & ESL receive significant Federal, State and local funding, yet the best students in the school district receive $00.00 dollars. If we want ours kids special activities and programs to continue, the parents will have to pay for them through donations to the schools booster club. Starting last year, LAUSD has stopped administering the CST test, due to Common Core. Because of this,school administrators and teachers due not have any way to identify students as Gifted and Talented.

My wife and I, had 30 minutes in each of my daughters classes last night and were extremely happy with the quality of her teachers and their incredible enthusiasm to educate the children. This is the second year for my daughters school too teach Common Core. While I personally don't agree with it, I am willing to let my daughter give it a go. Here is the kicker to the story. All four of my daughters primary classes are Common Core, but all of their text books are CST. I asked all of the teachers why and their response was all the same. LAUSD cannot afford to purchase new Common Core text books for all of their students. Absolutely pathetic!:( So in short, the kids are using CST text books that are 7 years old, yet the teachers have to teach a Common Core curriculum. The teachers are having to photocopy course work from a Common Core text book and distribute them to each child.

Why does LAUSD keep implementing programs they cannot afford to fund? It baffles the imagination! They build $500 million dollar schools, but cannot afford the text books to go in them. If we want to keep the American way of life going, our first priority needs to be educating our children. As of right now, our education system is severely lacking and we need to do something about it. If my wife and I were not so involved with our children's education on a daily basis, they would most likely flounder in the current system.
 

rivermobster

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It's the same way everywhere. In Glendora we have a grassroots program that raises money for our schools. Last year they raised just shy of half a million, are looking to beat that amount this year. They are well organized and put on some stellar events. Louie from Custom Truck Shop held one at his home a few years ago. Seventy five bucks a plate and they auctioned off tens of thousands of dollars worth of donated stuff! We bid and won the auction for five thousand dollars of braces for my son. The local business donate most of the prizes.

If you want to be involved in your kids education, you have to get Really involved!
 

IN AWE

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Fuck ESL (English as a second language) classes. That is total bullshit that they take away funding from the gifted and talented.
 

530RL

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Your point is well taken on what people believe. I really like that you made that point...

So let me help you out here with a couple of things, since what I believe/know is valid as well. ;)

There is a kid in Boy Scouts with my son. He has been kicked out of every grade school here in Glendora!!! He has the record for being the youngest kid ever put into continuation school here. And he is damm proud of that. You see, he is a VERY bright kid. I have talked to him on many different occasions. He knows he is welcome at my house and he is also friends with my daughter. I also know his entire family quite well. If you sat down to talk to him, you would think you are talking to an adult. He is wise beyond his years. He constantly fucks with the teachers and it pisses them off. the Reality is, he is bored to tears with school. Why am I telling you this??

Your perception on kids not being kicked out of school is wrong. (my best friend teaches continuation high school, his classes are not lacking for students.)

Your perception on discipline is wrong. Teachers can't get physical with kids anymore, but they sure as hell can dish out the heat. I HAVE KIDS. I know what their teachers have told them, and I have talked to their teachers. The teachers are more than willing to discipline the kids.

Society will not tolerate bullies? Lets say that it true, but the bullies missed that memo. Did you not read what happened to TPC's kid? His parents moved him to a different school. My son used to get picked on till I put him in martial arts. He has no issues with bullies at all any more, but he tells me they have moved just moved on to easier targets.

I guess the bottom line for you is, you have become accustomed to just going with the flow and having shit just forced down your throat. That's you, and that's ok! Cause you believe it to be ok. ;)

Me, I live by a different code that you. Mine is...

"I was told it couldn't be done, so I went ahead and did it anyway". This is the reality I live by.

__________________________________


Now for last night...

The parents all met in the gym. After the principal came to the podium, the first thing he did was have everyone stand, and he led us in the Pledge of Allegiance. Fuck yeah!!!!!!!!! Many of us applauded right after. :thumbup:

We then spent 10 min in each class our kids attended. Ruining around from class to class, just like they do during the day. I Ran into a ton of people I knew! From old jobs, Boy Scouts, current friends and made some new ones. It was a very enjoyable night for me.

Every teacher I met had been with GHS well over ten years. One guy had been there 18! The all had teaching backgrounds from college and grade school. They all seemed very well rounded, and very happy with their teaching careers. I had two teachers tell me my daughter was the bright spot in their classrooms. When I told my daughter that, she said "thats cause I'm the only person what asks any questions!!!". We didn't raise her to be shy. ;)

I asked about common core and they said it had been implemented for the first time this year, but in a very limited fashion. They said they may someday phase in all of the concepts, but for now, its a very limited thing so they can see how it works.

One teacher said...

"It's hard for me. I'm used to teaching with my mouth, telling the kids the things then need to know. Now I have to step back and let them do all the work. Looking in the books for answers and just helping them along when they need it. It's a very different concept to me"

I also asked if they were collecting any information from the kids. They all looked at me funny and said "what do you mean?". When I explained that I wanted to know if the common core curriculum required them to ask any kind of Personal questions, they said "oh! no not at all". I was happy to hear that from them. :)

I have to say I was more than impressed with how back to school night went down. I was impressed with the teachers and the principal as well. It was a HUGE difference from the back to school grammar school nights!

I have to say my daughter must take after her dad, since I was the only one asking questions in class last night.

_________________________

In closing, I would have to say that even though your views are correct, since you don't have kids and only work on an administrative level, you are missing out on the big picture.

I have two kids in high school, who I talk to daily about what Really goes on. And they are not afraid to tell me.

I work with Boy Scouts, watching kids go from kids to young men. It is rewarding beyond words I can say.

I am very much in touch with the kids in our town, from the best to the worst! And I see no need to change OUR school system.

My suggestion to you would be to get involved with the kids on a very personal level. I think you will find it to be a rewarding experience, and change your reality in BIG way.

:)

It is nice to see that the school is working out for you and for others there as it is in your self interest.

All kids deserve the same shot, unfortunately that is only happening for some kids in public education. I have never been involved in "administration", only involved at the policy level and at that level, I see the forest from the trees. There are excelling schools and failing schools throughout your community and the nation. You are fortunate to live in a neighborhood with what appears to be an excelling school. Just a guess, but I suspect there are parents in other public school districts or schools who have not had your same experiences.

With respect to your statement,

I guess the bottom line for you is, you have become accustomed to just going with the flow and having shit just forced down your throat. That's you, and that's ok! Cause you believe it to be ok.

I previously had 1350 employees at my last company and one or two of them might possibly disagree with you. However, similar to your quote that I think poorly of humans, I accept you believe both of those views and I am OK with that.

With respect to your comment that I should get involved at a personal level and to that point, I did not have children by choice. I would not have been a good parent. Maybe if others had the same self awareness, the world would be a better place.

Come to Dave's race in October, I'll buy you a beer.
 

rivermobster

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It is nice to see that the school is working out for you and for others there as it is in your self interest.

All kids deserve the same shot, unfortunately that is only happening for some kids in public education. I have never been involved in "administration", only involved at the policy level and at that level, I see the forest from the trees. There are excelling schools and failing schools throughout your community and the nation. You are fortunate to live in a neighborhood with what appears to be an excelling school. Just a guess, but I suspect there are parents in other public school districts or schools who have not had your same experiences.

With respect to your statement,

I guess the bottom line for you is, you have become accustomed to just going with the flow and having shit just forced down your throat. That's you, and that's ok! Cause you believe it to be ok.

I previously had 1350 employees at my last company and one or two of them might possibly disagree with you. However, similar to your quote that I think poorly of humans, I accept you believe both of those views and I am OK with that.

With respect to your comment that I should get involved at a personal level and to that point, I did not have children by choice. I would not have been a good parent. Maybe if others had the same self awareness, the world would be a better place.

Come to Dave's race in October, I'll buy you a beer.
Sounds good. [emoji106]
 

SBjet

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They build $500 million dollar schools, but cannot afford the text books to go in them. If we want to keep the American way of life going, our first priority needs to be educating our children. As of right now, our education system is severely lacking and we need to do something about it. If my wife and I were not so involved with our children's education on a daily basis, they would most likely flounder in the current system.

Yes. Funny how we constantly hear about inner city schools not having books, yet no explanation is given as to why. Obviously we have to figure out for ourselves that the kids destroyed the books and didn't bother to turn them in at the end of the year, but that is not mentioned on the news. The news says they need more $, and if we don't pay it, we must be racist.
Yes. Lots of kids would flounder if not for parents. My kids were assigned way to much homework, in essence the teacher assigned the homework to me, to cover what she didn't get to during the day. Since I covered it, my kids had good test scores. What % of parents did that? We don't know. We just know the tests are racist because white kids test better. The next obvious conclusion we are led to, is that this must be "unfair" and the only way to make it "fair" is to have the feds distribute resources. (Sorry, didn't ya'll know you were being led?)

School, society and America has changed.

Yes, it has. We have decided to throw $ at problems where it has already been proven not to work
.

Self interest is antithetical to the common good.

Absolutely wrong but that is the kind of crap Common Core preaches.



It is the self interest of those who believe that the second amendment does not support gun ownership, to teach that the second amendment does not support gun ownership.

Sigh. But why? You have no clue do you? That's why you don't see how evil this is.


Human want the low cost of WalMart but high wages for themselves and they honestly believe that is not inconsistent.

Sigh.


Let's make it personal.

Yes. Let's do. "Enlightened" peeps in the big city think my kids should be taught about anal sex in first grade. Out here in boonies, we think that can wait til 6th grade. So we leave the city, start our own towns, elect our own school boards, and do it the way we want. Libtards CAN'T STAND this! Why can't they leave us alone? We have to retrained, and broken to the saddle of Common Core. (Not to mention city planning and zoning, diet, and energy use.) All for our own good, of course.

I choose to participate in change I believe in the best way I can, but I understand that the opposition honestly believes what they are selling.

Uh, no. The Left always lies about what it is doing, it can never tell the truth, or people would reject it out of hand.


They honestly believe (insert whatever issue one is in disagreement on) is not a cram down your throat but for your self betterment.

Yes. Now you're getting somewhere.
But you didn't notice that you talked about self interest above, and here you talk about what's better for others.



Now for the last point. My solution would be that every person gets a voucher to go wherever they want. Take away the financial risk from the parent and make parents in charge of raising and educating their children, not the government. Humans are smart and self interested. With a voucher, those who value education will go to the hardest schools with the highest educational outcomes, others who do not believe in education will follow their honest self interest and send their kids to the school that is easier and has lower educational outcomes.

.

Yes. Great conclusion. Why won't the Left let you do that? C'mon, think hard. I answered this because there is hope for you.

The math issues outlined above are not "new" techniques .

I have nothing against kids adding from the left instead of the right, but when all the books, even the math books, are written by leftists, you know you have a problem.


Once you go to Agenda 21 you lose me. I understand Agenda 21 and I have never heard it mentioned in any meeting or conference relating to educational at the local, state or national level.

.

Well of course you wouldn't. And 95% of the left's foot soldiers aren't aware either. In short, it's about total control. Control your thoughts, your speech, your actions. indoctrinate your kids. Take away your guns, make you dependent. If you want to complain about a school you have to call DC or hire a lobbyist, instead of appearing at a local meeting. If you want to complain about your gun rights, call the UN. If want to make a profit, first grease the Party.
 

Old Texan

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And that be SBJet, common sense advocate and telling it like it is for the average citizen who wants nothing of this big government enterprise aimed at putting the nation into one big socialistic basket of control......Thank you for your efforts. You've pointed out exactly what these all encompassing programs are aiming towards. The plot is to erase "self interest" with "self interest" and we know that to be a fact, we just ain't gonna allow it to happen..:thumbsup:thumbsup:D
 

Gelcoater

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image.jpg :hmm
 

530RL

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Yes. Funny how we constantly hear about inner city schools not having books, yet no explanation is given as to why. Obviously we have to figure out for ourselves that the kids destroyed the books and didn't bother to turn them in at the end of the year, but that is not mentioned on the news. The news says they need more $, and if we don't pay it, we must be racist.
Yes. Lots of kids would flounder if not for parents. My kids were assigned way to much homework, in essence the teacher assigned the homework to me, to cover what she didn't get to during the day. Since I covered it, my kids had good test scores. What % of parents did that? We don't know. We just know the tests are racist because white kids test better. The next obvious conclusion we are led to, is that this must be "unfair" and the only way to make it "fair" is to have the feds distribute resources. (Sorry, didn't ya'll know you were being led?)



Yes. Great conclusion. Why won't the Left let you do that? C'mon, think hard. I answered this because there is hope for you.



Well of course you wouldn't. And 95% of the left's foot soldiers aren't aware either. In short, it's about total control. Control your thoughts, your speech, your actions. indoctrinate your kids. Take away your guns, make you dependent. If you want to complain about a school you have to call DC or hire a lobbyist, instead of appearing at a local meeting. If you want to complain about your gun rights, call the UN. If want to make a profit, first grease the Party.


Let me just say that I accept that you believe everything you say here, and in all those other responses, is the truth and you would pass a lie detector that you believe it to be the truth and that all other competing thoughts or ideas can not be the truth.

With respect to my statement,

I choose to participate in change I believe in the best way I can, but I understand that the opposition honestly believes what they are selling.

and your response,

Uh, no. The Left always lies about what it is doing, it can never tell the truth, or people would reject it out of hand.


I accept that you believe the left is actually lying but you might consider that they believe their views as much as you believe yours.

With respect to what I believe to be the truth, factions, differences and conflicts are permanent fixtures of our lives, and quite frankly, I don't want my rights trampled by the "truths" of your views any more than I want them trampled by the "truths" of those liberals you so greatly hate. In my mind there is little difference between you and them.

I'll just think for myself, and hope that the majority of Americans wake up and start to think for themselves.
 

530RL

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And lastly,

I stated,

"Self interest is antithetical to the common good."

And SBJet stated,

Absolutely wrong but that is the kind of crap Common Core preaches.

The Websters dictionary definition of self interest is,

self-in?ter?est
noun
one's personal interest or advantage, especially when pursued without regard for others.


I understand that you believe in your very soul that self interest in not antithetical to the common good, but then again, liberals do not believe the second amendment allows for unbridled access to guns. Each is a truth, in one's own mind.
 

SBjet

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Thank you for your polite response.
You made a great case for vouchers, one that I appreciate from someone in your field.
Now why won't the Left you use them? That's the key.
 

530RL

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Thank you for your polite response.
You made a great case for vouchers, one that I appreciate from someone in your field.
Now why won't the Left you use them? That's the key.

I was just an appointee by the Governor, same with my father. Our field was commerce.

With respect to your question, It is not in their self interest...:D

Vouchers would destroy teachers unions, a main supporter of the left.

Vouchers would cut pay to some teachers at the expense of others.

Vouchers would destroy their ability to mold and change curriculum and "culture" in a way that they believe is better for America. Now despite you prior statement, making America "better" by their definition is in their self interest because better is defined by the "truth" they believe.

Vouchers pit one school against another for students. That is not public education in their view. They take funding away from things that support their self interest.

I could go on and on but I think you get the point.

I am not a republican or a democrat, but I fully believe that in order to succeed (however one defines success), you must understand what the other side believes (right or wrong), so that you can give them a little of what they want, to get most of what you want.
 

Racer56

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Anyone else think that Lausd should be broken up into smaller districts? My personal opinion is that smaller school districts would better serve their communities and would be a lot more manageable. Smaller school district's by region could tailor their curriculum and programs to better serve the specific needs of their local population. Lausd has become so huge and thick with bureaucracy, I don't think its fixable and is doomed to fail!
 

530RL

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Anyone else think that Lausd should be broken up into smaller districts? My personal opinion is that smaller school districts would better serve their communities and would be a lot more manageable. Smaller school district's by region could tailor their curriculum and programs to better serve the specific needs of their local population. Lausd has become so huge and thick with bureaucracy, I don't think its fixable and is doomed to fail!

The argument for large districts is economies of scale. No different than mergers in the private sector, but government does not work like the private sector. With that said, I think you are absolutely right. But that is not the trend in this Country.

There was no federal department of education at the cabinet level until Carter signed the bill in October of 1979. Reagan expanded it dramatically. The largest expansion of federal control over local education was with NCLB proposed by President Bush II and co-authored by John Boehner. And isn't it odd that the genesis for NCLB was Republicans.

Wouldn't have been nice if Reagan would have just killed it when it was small?
 

BigSteve

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Anyone else think that Lausd should be broken up into smaller districts? My personal opinion is that smaller school districts would better serve their communities and would be a lot more manageable. Smaller school district's by region could tailor their curriculum and programs to better serve the specific needs of their local population. Lausd has become so huge and thick with bureaucracy, I don't think its fixable and is doomed to fail!

I have taken the time to serve on the school boards! Very rewarding work at times !
The biggest problem in the education system teachers are afraid to speak up for fear of union retaliation.
Your children's education will always take a back seat to school unions :finger

After attending three medical school graduations, one thing is very clear to me it takes total commitment from all families involved, in support of the kids to make it happen.

My grandson Oliver, has a tough road ahead.
Oliver was named after my daughters, dept head of medicine @ Oxford UK

We all share a common family goal in prepping him for Oxford, send him their, by age 15
It will take many long hours of intense study and tutoring at the highest levels, at all times.

The bar is set for Oliver at the very highest level and it will not be lowered by the families.
The public school system isn't even on the radar screen. :(
 

500bbc

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The argument for large districts is economies of scale. No different than mergers in the private sector, but government does not work like the private sector. With that said, I think you are absolutely right. But that is not the trend in this Country.

?

The problem with this statement is, as you noted, for the public sector there is no economic benefit to larger, it just means greater waste and less accountability.

I would wager that if the entire workforce of LAUSD were forced to get public sector jobs 90% would be fired in less than thirty days.

Conversely if LAUSD was reformed under private control they would achieve ten times the results on 30% of the current bloated budget.:D
 

boatdoc55

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The problem with this statement is, as you noted, for the public sector there is economic benefit to larger, it just means greater waste and less accountability.

I would wager that if the entire workforce of LAUSD were forced to get public sector jobs 90% would be fired in less than thirty days.

Conversely if LAUSD was reformed under private control they would achieve ten times the results on 30% of the current bloated budget.:D

NO doubt about it!!
 

530RL

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I would wager that if the entire workforce of LAUSD were forced to get public sector jobs 90% would be fired in less than thirty days.

Not if they got union public sector jobs. :D
 

rivrrts429

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Thought I would bump this thread to the top.

My wife, she's a teacher, just got emailed a memo about Common Core.

California is changing the name from Common Core to California Standards.

It was mentioned that Common Core has a negative perception so in hopes of portraying a better image they are changing the name lol
 

Abc123

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When kids can't go to their parents and ask for help with their homework, it makes the child more dependent on the school (the government). Separate the kid from the parent, gain control over the mind of child (the future voter).

Public schools have become nothing more than indoctrination camps. I think most of us here would agree that most of the stuff taught in grade school is useless, confusing and will not help a child earn a living or become a better person. Isn't that the purpose of school?

Public schools are not underfunded. The money just goes into the wrong hands (teachers union and pointless programs like ESL).

I think the success of charter schools has proven that the education system should be privatized. Let the parents and local community control what the children learn. Not a group of gutless bureaucrats only doing what will earn them another term and make their friends rich. They don't care about your kids. They send their own to private schools.

Oh and how about a tax cut for the people who don't have kids? Parents get to write the kid off as a dependent, where's my write off for not having a child who uses the schools? Same should go to parents who send their kids to private schools.

Oh and one more thing. Fuck the teacher's union.
 

TeamGreene

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Thought I would bump this thread to the top.

My wife, she's a teacher, just got emailed a memo about Common Core.

California is changing the name from Common Core to California Standards.

It was mentioned that Common Core has a negative perception so in hopes of portraying a better image they are changing the name lol

Right out of the liberal playbook. Change the name to suit their needs/agenda.

Global Warming/Climate Change etc........
 

OCMerrill

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I think it's pretty much common knowledge what a cluster fuck common core is. It's been on the horizon and talked about for at least three years in my house.

It's way to late to do anything about it, except for putting your kids in private schools to avoid dealing with it. And that should be a decision every parent should make on there own after doing all their own home work on it.

Highly personal decision no?

Have you tried another boating site?

[emoji12]

The problem I am seeing with Common Core math is my 6th grade son is getting bombarded with all these multi steps to solve x, work that he has to show, making things way more complicated then they have to be. Then the next chapter they want the problems worked differently.

My Son is "Strung" and can't sit still let alone learn 8 different ways to tie a shoe. Honestly were trying to help him and keep telling him x=(whatever), whats the big deal? His argument is "I need help to show it this way....this week. Last week was the other way."

Common Core = more busy work. Learning the same thing.


I have also herd that certain History is being left out and so far up to and in the 6th grade he has learned very little about the Civil War and Slavery. A huge part of the country we are today and it's going to be washed out. Circled completely around it for sure with endless Daniel Boon and Mission projects.

Once common core settles down I wonder how bad it will really be?
 

regor

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When kids can't go to their parents and ask for help with their homework, it makes the child more dependent on the school (the government). Separate the kid from the parent, gain control over the mind of child (the future voter).

Public schools have become nothing more than indoctrination camps. I think most of us here would agree that most of the stuff taught in grade school is useless, confusing and will not help a child earn a living or become a better person. Isn't that the purpose of school?

Public schools are not underfunded. The money just goes into the wrong hands (teachers union and pointless programs like ESL).

I think the success of charter schools has proven that the education system should be privatized. Let the parents and local community control what the children learn. Not a group of gutless bureaucrats only doing what will earn them another term and make their friends rich. They don't care about your kids. They send their own to private schools.

Oh and how about a tax cut for the people who don't have kids? Parents get to write the kid off as a dependent, where's my write off for not having a child who uses the schools? Same should go to parents who send their kids to private schools.

Oh and one more thing. Fuck the teacher's union.

Perfection IMO :thumbsup

But what about Prop 30, don't we need that for the children? :(
 

rivrrts429

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Right out of the liberal playbook. Change the name to suit their needs/agenda.

Global Warming/Climate Change etc........

Can you blame them?

They know most Americans don't want to read beyond the headlines. Changing the name has worked well for them in the past.

They make a living off of rebranding, refocusing, but never retreating.

Every thing they do is based off of this business model. Ever see a Liberal admit they got it wrong? Fuck no they won't. I've read posts in this very forum that seem so ridiculous but it all makes sense when you consider the "liberal" politic business model.

To a large extent it's our own fault not holding these politicians accountable because we as a society don't want to be bothered. In other words politics is taboo to most people.
 

rivrrts429

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The problem I am seeing with Common Core math is my 6th grade son is getting bombarded with all these multi steps to solve x, work that he has to show, making things way more complicated then they have to be. Then the next chapter they want the problems worked differently.

My Son is "Strung" and can't sit still let alone learn 8 different ways to tie a shoe. Honestly were trying to help him and keep telling him x=(whatever), whats the big deal? His argument is "I need help to show it this way....this week. Last week was the other way."

Common Core = more busy work. Learning the same thing.


I have also herd that certain History is being left out and so far up to and in the 6th grade he has learned very little about the Civil War and Slavery. A huge part of the country we are today and it's going to be washed out. Circled completely around it for sure with endless Daniel Boon and Mission projects.

Once common core settles down I wonder how bad it will really be?

Most teachers I know feel the same frustration your son does. Their meetings are very "exciting" when discussing Common Core.

Time will tell how this Common Core shakes out in the years to come.
 

boatdoc55

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When kids can't go to their parents and ask for help with their homework, it makes the child more dependent on the school (the government). Separate the kid from the parent, gain control over the mind of child (the future voter).

Public schools have become nothing more than indoctrination camps. I think most of us here would agree that most of the stuff taught in grade school is useless, confusing and will not help a child earn a living or become a better person. Isn't that the purpose of school?

Public schools are not underfunded. The money just goes into the wrong hands (teachers union and pointless programs like ESL).

I think the success of charter schools has proven that the education system should be privatized. Let the parents and local community control what the children learn. Not a group of gutless bureaucrats only doing what will earn them another term and make their friends rich. They don't care about your kids. They send their own to private schools.

Oh and how about a tax cut for the people who don't have kids? Parents get to write the kid off as a dependent, where's my write off for not having a child who uses the schools? Same should go to parents who send their kids to private schools.

Oh and one more thing. Fuck the teacher's union.

Ya, My wife and I have been paying for these overpaid union babysitters for 44 years and they still want more from me. We have not seen the inside of a school since we both graduated from high school decades ago.
 

Old Texan

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I've heard that common Core is related to the business standards that are becoming prevalent in the industrial sales I take part in daily. If so it's a complete clusterfuck that has been described to me by an old engineer, "We're in relentless pursuit of useless information....." In other words, a tremendous amount of data is gathered that in the end is filed away and useless as to the product being sold and incorporated into a project, but teams of employees can't function without everything being filed specifically. They no nothing of what they are working on other than the data must be in order.

Common Core may very well be the language of drones that is being instilled into the next generation so they can be controlled. Conspiracy or fact?
 

TeamGreene

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I've heard that common Core is related to the business standards that are becoming prevalent in the industrial sales I take part in daily. If so it's a complete clusterfuck that has been described to me by an old engineer, "We're in relentless pursuit of useless information....." In other words, a tremendous amount of data is gathered that in the end is filed away and useless as to the product being sold and incorporated into a project, but teams of employees can't function without everything being filed specifically. They no nothing of what they are working on other than the data must be in order.

Common Core may very well be the language of drones that is being instilled into the next generation so they can be controlled. Conspiracy or fact?

So basically Common Core is like asking an engineer what time is it? And he/she resonds with how to build a watch.
 

FreeBird236

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So basically Common Core is like asking an engineer what time is it? And he/she resonds with how to build a watch.



Yes, except even the watchmaker is scratching his head at the way it's being built.
 

530RL

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The simple solution is to drop mandatory enrollment and attendance at public schools. You don't like it, don't come.

To go with it, let's just leave the welfare cap at one year like Arizona recently accomplished.

If a parent does not care about education, best of luck to you, but I am not gonna feed your child and I am certainly not interested in having your child mis-behave and keep kids and parents who value education from competing and winning in a global economy.
 

rivrrts429

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It doesn't sound as if changing the name is anything new. Even Emporer Brewer herself used and Executive Order.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/local...35843e-7ef7-11e3-9556-4a4bf7bcbd84_story.html

I don't think party affiliate has any bearing. It's a useless argument trying take the "us vs. them" approach. It's only a distraction from the real issue.

Your post further supports Governor Huckabee's statement "Rebrand it, Refocus it, but don't retreat," argument.

I don't give a shit what party you're from. Changing the name is a tactic that does nothing but distract from the real issue and that's the Federal Government creating a uniform curriculum. In addition to the government gathering info and tracking each student throughout their entire education.

You can believe, or not believe, but the government doesn't mettle in shit that they don't have a very specific agenda they're focused on. Time will tell what that agenda is.
 
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