WELCOME TO RIVER DAVES PLACE

100 mph / 100,000 but with a Small Block? 24 Nordic SXIO

RiverDave

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As we progress forward into the "modern era" of performance boating, it's my opinion that you are going to see a lot more boats running small block power then ever before. They are lighter, more compact, and with the new LS series platforms are putting out phenomenal torque and HP numbers. Ilmor has embraced the LS Architecture with their new MV8-570!


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Thane, The GM of Nordic, is a long time boat designer and tooler. He is no stranger to setting up boats, and knowing what makes them tick. What I most like about Thane is the fact that he is the opposite of every single other person I know in the Marine Industry. Most the guys I know are for the most part stuck in their ways, and don't want to try new things. Thane takes the opposite approach being he is always trying new things, different setups and configurations, and that is one of the primary reason why Nordic is where they are at today. (#1 seller of boats in the Custom Boat Market in case you were wondering where they actually are at.)


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Thane introduced Nordic's 24' Cat early last year and have already built a handful of them with a variety of different power plants including a single 300XS Outboard. Awhile back he said "You know what would be cool in that boat? One of those LS series Small blocks." When Thane tells you something like that, you can bet the build is already on the horizon.


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The boat was recently completed, but John the head rigger was out of town. They ordered an IMCO 2 inch shorty lower, and for some reason the drive showed up with a standard length leg. John played around with it for a day just to see how it runs, and it became clear the X-dimension was waaayyy to low. They are currently waiting for the IMCO lower to show up, but Nordic had a Merc sport master case in the shop so they ran it with a few props just to see how it performs. The boat is currently running 98 mph with full tanks of fuel according to John and Thane at Nordic.


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The IMCO lower is usually good for a couple of mph on a Merc lower unit which should put the boat right at 100 MPH with full tanks, or 1/2 tanks and a couple of passengers. I'm confident with a little more aggressive prop, and cutting a few inches off the skeg of the current lower they could surpass the century mark if they wanted, but that's not the goal. The goal is to have a rock solid handling, legit 100 mph boat (with a standard load, not running on fumes in some stripped out boat) with a reliable stock motor package that is still financially viable for most looking for a new boat.


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That to me is dropping a bomb on the small performance cat market, and I think they will do very well with it.


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If you aren't impressed yet, Thane has intentions of running this Ilmor powered 24 in this years 336 Parker Enduro and believes it could be a contender not only for a class win, but a possible "Overall Win." With stock Ilmor power, the reliability factor is there, and he can either short prop it with a 28 and have crazy acceleration coming out of the corners and a top speed in the mid 90's, or Prop it up to a 30 and run just a touch over 100 in the long straights. Whatever they decide to do we look forward to seeing a new Factory model out on the race course with Factory power that anybody can attain!


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One can't help admire Randy Davis's sense of humor in knowing that he's footing the bill for a factory boat to come out and run against his very own Factory Nordic Ski Race 193 boat. Part of me thinks it doesn't matter to him so long as it's a Nordic out there giving it hell with a chance to win. The other part of me can't help but wonder though what happens if the employees get out ahead of the boss?

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RiverDave

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Additional Photo's of the boat / including rigging photo's.

IMG_1302.jpg IMG_1301.jpg IMG_1321.jpg IMG_1318.jpg IMG_1316.jpg IMG_1315.jpg IMG_1313.jpg IMG_1312.jpg IMG_1311.jpg IMG_1310.jpg IMG_1309.jpg IMG_1307.jpg

Unique Triple Step Bottom. The front sponsons actually come down below the bottom of the rest of the running surface and then rise up to the first flat surface ahead of the first step, you can see it on the left hand side if you look closely.
IMG_1304.jpg IMG_1305.jpg
 

HavaToon

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Nice write up and another killer build from the guys at Nordic.

Now when mercury builds a 400xs or 500xs outboard this will be a 100mph+ boat with a V6!
 

BUDMAN

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Beautiful boat. Do they offer this boat in an open bow or plan on offering one?
 

ChevelleSB406

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Thank you very much for posting this, this particular boat has been on my radar since it came out the mold, and I am very curious as well about this small block power. If anyone has info on it handy, please post a link. Beautiful boat, great numbers, really impressed with what Nordic is doing these days.
 

C-2

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Superb, wow. Wild looking with so many great ideas. :thumbup:
 

PVHCA

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Well done RD, great boat Nordic, but please put chrome fenders on the trailer to help kill the "too much black".
 

HavaToon

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Beautiful boat. Do they offer this boat in an open bow or plan on offering one?

I know John has said a few times they can make it with an open bow if that's what the customer wants.
 

RiverDave

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Thank you very much for posting this, this particular boat has been on my radar since it came out the mold, and I am very curious as well about this small block power. If anyone has info on it handy, please post a link. Beautiful boat, great numbers, really impressed with what Nordic is doing these days.

In the beginning of the article click the MV8-570 that is highlighted in white. It will take you to all the specs on the motor.
 

Uncle Dave

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100 w small block is damm good, but a bit of a misnomer- Id say 100 with an LSX.

At the same time its not really "astounding" as there a bunch of ways to get to 100MPH for 100K

I get about about 90 with a few peeps onboard for 50K ride. (originally it'd prob be 100 to rebuy the same thing 20 years later)

I would say that Ilmor is first class power after owning a 710 for 5 years and this rig likely to be quite trouble free.

Big fun- I want a ride.

Uncle Dave
 

HALLETT BOY

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I find it interesting they went with an SCX rather than and SC drive . I wouldn't think that engine would
have the low-down torque to hurt the SC ...
 

Uncle Dave

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I find it interesting they went with an SCX rather than and SC drive . I wouldn't think that engine would
have the low-down torque to hurt the SC ...

It doesn't and This drive will cost them MPH period.

I would have fit an ITS/ XR with an Imco lower on this rig.

UD
 

Uncle Dave

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Did we ever see #'s on this rig or is the claim 100 MPH?


UD
 

Bigbore500r

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Repowering a Merc 5.7 or 6.2 powered boat with a nice LS would be a great project. If anyone has the urge to do this to their boat I would love to be involved in that project.

JH
 

530RL

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I'd like to build an LS powered twin turbo V-drive but all the V-drive experts say that is a dumb idea. :(
 

RiverDave

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Did we ever see #'s on this rig or is the claim 100 MPH?


UD

I can go get a pic of the GPS if you want to see it.

Repowering a Merc 5.7 or 6.2 powered boat with a nice LS would be a great project. If anyone has the urge to do this to their boat I would love to be involved in that project.

JH

My plan is to eventually repower my Schiada from a Scorpion to a LS3.

I'd like to build an LS powered twin turbo V-drive but all the V-drive experts say that is a dumb idea. :(

Not sure why they would say that.

RD
 

Cole Trickle

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I can go get a pic of the GPS if you want to see it.



My plan is to eventually repower my Schiada from a Scorpion to a LS3.



Not sure why they would say that.

RD

I don't think the ls3 will give you what you want over the scorpion. Maybe 30-40 HP)

Your boat with a LSA would be awesome and almost able to keep up with my hallett:eek::D
 

Uncle Dave

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I can go get a pic of the GPS if you want to see it.

RD

Wasn't sure where the # originally came from.

If it was observed by you firsthand - or any credible boater thats third party its good enough for me.

UD
 

Bigbore500r

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I'd like to build an LS powered twin turbo V-drive but all the V-drive experts say that is a dumb idea. :(

Stock iron LS blocks and cranks handle 1200hp regularly, I think it would be awesome. There is no displacement for displacement.....except boost :thumbup:
 

Bigbore500r

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I don't think the ls3 will give you what you want over the scorpion. Maybe 30-40 HP)

Your boat with a LSA would be awesome and almost able to keep up with my hallett:eek::D

A stock LS3 makes 500 horsepower at the flywheel, it is considerably under-rated. The 377 will make more torque below 3500rpm, after that its all over
 

Uncle Dave

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A stock LS3 makes 500 horsepower at the flywheel, it is considerably under-rated. The 377 will make more torque below 3500rpm, after that its all over

Setup for a car- sure.

By the time you put a cam that will idle low enough not to crunch your drive and a water laden exhaust I doubt you'll see 500 at the crank from a "stock" engine.

UD
 

Cole Trickle

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A stock LS3 makes 500 horsepower at the flywheel, it is considerably under-rated. The 377 will make more torque below 3500rpm, after that its all over

You know the Lsx as much as anyone but that number seems a tad high? I imagine that is a long tube no smog set up?
 

rivermobster

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Setup for a car- sure.

By the time you put a cam that will idle low enough not to crunch your drive and a water laden exhaust I doubt you'll see 500 at the crank from a "stock" engine.

UD

BNAG. This is something a lot of people don't think about. You can cam the holy shit out of a v-drive, but with an I/O, you have to be Very careful.

The LSA would be bad azz, but I'm sure that would cost some huge coin.

LS7 would be better, but good luck finding a core.

Or you could do the 427 we are building right now: http://www.carcraft.com/techarticles/1404_building_a_427_ls/

Either way, the LS builds are Expensive...
 

LuckyDaze

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Super nice rig! That a big boat I wouldn't mind owning. Wonder how it is on fuel in comparison to its big block brothers.
 

Bigbore500r

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You know the Lsx as much as anyone but that number seems a tad high? I imagine that is a long tube no smog set up?

Yes, i guestimated a tad high...its closer to 470 :D
Here is a L99 engine, converted to stock LS3 specs (except for 1/2 point less compression due to the valve reliefs in the pistons, for VVT which is now deleted). Its laying down 460+hp with long tubes @ the flywheel. Add the 1/2 point of compression back in, and you should be closer to 470hp
stockdyno.jpeg

Yes, I agree the water injected exhaust is going to rob HP....but it is also going to rob HP from the 377 as well. If you strapped the 377 to an engine dyno with long tube headers, set up for a car, It will come nowhere near 500 fwhp.

I dont want to beat the LS drum, I appreciate anything that performs well. If I was shooting for over 650fwhp N/A I would go straight to a BBC, as the cost isn't worth it to stroke a LS to get there. But for lower HP requirements, where weight and size is a concern, they are awesome and major bang for the buck.
 

Bigbore500r

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Stock LS3 is 425hp

LSX 6.2 is 450hp < Crate race engine

As rated by GM......

Dyno reveals they come in a bit higher. Camaro's and Corvettes are getting 400rwhp with headers, cold air intake, and a tune, and the C6's are trapping 118-119mph @ 3200lbs.

All I'm saying is the power potential VS a traditional SBC platform (WITHOUT exotic 14-18 degree aftermarkets heads) is pretty incredible
 

Uncle Dave

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Just doesn't seem all that impressive to me vs an old school SBC.

I built this 406 SBC minus the Marine stuff for about 8K.

This is dry, but carries over 500lb ft for 1200RPM.

Ilmor putting570 to the prop with full marinization is awesome- but at 25-30K it should be.

Uncle Dave
 

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Bigbore500r

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Just doesn't seem all that impressive to me vs an old school SBC.

I built this 406 SBC minus the Marine stuff for about 8K.

This is dry, but carries over 500lb ft for 1200RPM.

Ilmor putting570 to the prop with full marinization is awesome- but at 25-30K it should be.

Uncle Dave

What size cam?
Which aftermarket heads?

That is a nice power curve. Did it go in a boat?
 

Uncle Dave

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What size cam?
Which aftermarket heads?

That is a nice power curve. Did it go in a boat?

Its in my 20.8. To be fair a super experienced old timer built it and picked the combo.

Cam is custom Engel GHR-236/242 on 110 lobe centers (vs standard 114)

Brodix track 1's with 2.08's and some hand porting- Id certainly pick up a few HP if I put them on a CNC machine.
Los of guys tell me they think these heads are junk and that AFR's would give me another 30HP and 25 FT/lb.

Here it is idling on the hose at boostpower. Not a kitten around 800 or less - about 650 in gear foot off gas.

[video=youtube;h93yy3FwuYs]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h93yy3FwuYs[/video]

I love all the cool new stuff, but I just dont see the dollar per HP in it when marinizing them.

UD
 

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rivermobster

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Nothing wrong with beating the LS drum. I LOVE the fact that it will stay nice and dry, with no leaks, long after an old school small block starts leaking.

That alone is reason enuf to want to switch to that engine! If time and money permit...

:thumbup:
 

pronstar

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I'm curious to see how long between rebuilds a high-power small block can go. It's gonna have to spin to make power.

As far as idling to get it into gear, the potential is there with electronic engine/fuel/timing management to allow a brief drop in revs to happen, to coincide with putting it into forward or reverse.

Plus with variable cam phasing, you should be able to have the best of both worlds...not sure if they're putting this into marine applications, though.
 

RiverDave

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Its in my 20.8. To be fair a super experienced old timer built it and picked the combo.

Cam is custom Engel GHR-236/242 on 110 lobe centers (vs standard 114)

Brodix track 1's with 2.08's and some hand porting- Id certainly pick up a few HP if I put them on a CNC machine.
Los of guys tell me they think these heads are junk and that AFR's would give me another 30HP and 25 FT/lb.

Here it is idling on the hose at boostpower. Not a kitten around 800 or less - about 650 in gear foot off gas.

[video=youtube;h93yy3FwuYs]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h93yy3FwuYs[/video]

I love all the cool new stuff, but I just dont see the dollar per HP in it when marinizing them.

UD


all aluminum 525HPEngine #19301360 for $7589.00 and a engine management controller(ECU/Harness) #19259261 $1199.95 This engine Delivers 525 horsepower at 6,300 rpm and 489 lb.-ft. at 4,400 rpm, this is the top of the line for factory GM crate engines at least from a naturally aspirated standpoint. As delivered, the LS376/525 includes the Intake manifold, with the injectors, fuel rail, throttle body, ignition system, valve covers, and oil pan.

Now match that with Hardin Marine's new line of products such as an entire billet engine accessory drive kit including stainless steel sea pump, alternator, p/s pump, tensioner, Stainless steel headers, bell housing, drive coupler, offshore engine mounts, polished stainless steel closed cooling system, starter, aluminum circulating pump, and starters for less than $15K!


Excerpt from Hardin Marine press release from over a year ago.

RD
 

Uncle Dave

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I'm curious to see how long between rebuilds a high-power small block can go. It's gonna have to spin to make power.

As far as idling to get it into gear, the potential is there with electronic engine/fuel/timing management to allow a brief drop in revs to happen, to coincide with putting it into forward or reverse.

Plus with variable cam phasing, you should be able to have the best of both worlds...not sure if they're putting this into marine applications, though.

I got 10 years and over 800 HARD HRs before I needed rebuild on what I posted.


UD
 

Uncle Dave

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Excerpt from Hardin Marine press release from over a year ago.

RD[/SIZE]

Makes sense.

By the time I was done I could have had more power from a BBC, for just a little bit more bread.

Not sure how many hours that rig wold go for, but it seems nice if a bit less TQ than my little SBC.

UD
 

RiverDave

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Makes sense.

By the time I was done I could have had more power from a BBC, for just a little bit more bread.

Not sure how many hours that rig wold go for, but it seems nice if a bit less TQ than my little SBC.

UD

It is 15k for all aluminum (lightweight) 525 hp.. Reliability would be the only concern, but my sources tell me they are out there in boats..
 

Racer56

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Excerpt from Hardin Marine press release from over a year ago.

RD[/SIZE]

Does anyone know of someone that has installed that engine with the Hardin Marine package. Curious to see how that setup works.
 

RiverDave

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Does anyone know of someone that has installed that engine with the Hardin Marine package. Curious to see how that setup works.

Scott Price of CP told me they had a few out there, but I haven't followed up with him to see how it worked out. I plan too at some point. This is all used boat only stuff, as I'm not sure it would be CARB legal on new boats now.

RD
 

Uncle Dave

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It is 15k for all aluminum (lightweight) 525 hp.. Reliability would be the only concern, but my sources tell me they are out there in boats..

15K plus exhaust.

Reliability and ability to handle a bad batch of gas (which one gets from time to time in a boat) would be mine.

I wonder if thats a hydraulic setup or a solid setup needing periodic adjustment.

Thats s smoking deal on all aluminum mill though.

UD
 

RiverDave

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15K plus exhaust.

Reliability and ability to handle a bad batch of gas (which one gets from time to time in a boat) would be mine.

I wonder if thats a hydraulic setup or a solid setup needing periodic adjustment.

Thats s smoking deal on all aluminum mill though.

UD

Incorrect, 15K INCLUDING EXHAUST.. Read the excerpt carefully. It is a close cooled COMPLETE package. Drop in and go, nothing else required other then fuel.

RD
 

Uncle Dave

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Incorrect, 15K INCLUDING EXHAUST.. Read the excerpt carefully. It is a close cooled COMPLETE package. Drop in and go, nothing else required other then fuel.

RD

I see now "stainless steel headers."

been sick for a week and in a day quill induced haze was looking for the word "Exhaust"

I wonder if the dyno # is wet or dry?

I dont see this on their website - do you have a link to it?

UD
 

Bigbore500r

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Its in my 20.8. To be fair a super experienced old timer built it and picked the combo.

Cam is custom Engel GHR-236/242 on 110 lobe centers (vs standard 114)

Brodix track 1's with 2.08's and some hand porting- Id certainly pick up a few HP if I put them on a CNC machine.
Los of guys tell me they think these heads are junk and that AFR's would give me another 30HP and 25 FT/lb.

Here it is idling on the hose at boostpower. Not a kitten around 800 or less - about 650 in gear foot off gas.

[video=youtube;h93yy3FwuYs]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h93yy3FwuYs[/video]

I love all the cool new stuff, but I just dont see the dollar per HP in it when marinizing them.

UD

Sounds great :thumbup:

Here is some food for thought.....(not a boat, just for illustration)

2008 LS3 / Manual trans (dyno pull in 4th 1:1)
230/234 114lsa comp cam. Idles @ 750rpm
Heads are stock, as are all other engine internals. Intake manifold, throttle body are also stock.

Car put down 500 horsepower / 460 ftlb of torwue to the wheels....which puts it a 575-600 fwhp assuming @ 15-18% drivetrain loss. Impressive considering its a 367", with a smaller cam, on a wider LSA (calmer idle). The power curve is pretty fat, keeps above 400ftlb of torque @ the wheels from 3500-6500

Thats how good the stock LS3 heads are. They flow 320cfm on the intake stock, and have 15 degree valve angles. Thats why they make so much power VS older SBC stuff (even compared to most aftermarket SBC heads).

dynograph.jpg
 

Uncle Dave

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Sounds great :thumbup:

Here is some food for thought.....(not a boat, just for illustration)

2008 LS3 / Manual trans (dyno pull in 4th 1:1)
230/234 114lsa comp cam. Idles @ 750rpm
Heads are stock, as are all other engine internals. Intake manifold, throttle body are also stock.

Car put down 500 horsepower / 460 ftlb of torwue to the wheels....which puts it a 575-600 fwhp assuming @ 15-18% drivetrain loss. Impressive considering its a 367", with a smaller cam, on a wider LSA (calmer idle). The power curve is pretty fat, keeps above 400ftlb of torque @ the wheels from 3500-6500

Thats how good the stock LS3 heads are. They flow 320cfm on the intake stock, and have 15 degree valve angles. Thats why they make so much power VS older SBC stuff (even compared to most aftermarket SBC heads).

View attachment 367688

Don't get me worng- I love the new tech, and especially in a car where you can rely get the HP per CI out of them.

If I started form scratch today I wouldn't begin to use the combo I have.
My reality was that 20 years ago I could pull a combo of parts off the shelf and make some pretty serious power for some pretty thin bread.

Getting this kind of beans out of the tech I have is the fun. What I have is every mans small block, not exotic at all, bit something a regular guy with regular tools, and regular beer can put together in his garage with a few buddies on a budget that flat out works balls in a boat.

Thing is I dont see a hole lot of small blocks in boats today for whatever reason that put out what my old combo is, and its always fun to try to run the fattest with the least. I see these in magazine, but I rarely see them in boats and Im eager to see if there they are really 20 years better- for the money.

I can spend my way into whatever level of power I want but after doing that for a lifetime I prefer the (new) old school basic mill kinda stuff.

I think its really cool that Ilmor is building a LSX and although I shudder at the price (still bent over from 5 years ago on my 710) they really do make an awesome piece of tech

My 710 gets 1.38 HP per CI on pump gas and idles like a kitten - thats difficult to achieve NA. These guys can build a mill.

Id love that Nordic cat with a high winding mill.

UD
 

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Uncle Dave

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Your thoughts on that press release I posted?

RD

Although Id still like to see the full curve and #'s, It would have been easier better looking and faster to do that vs what I did.

Id also like to see which headers you get with that because you still have to buy S pipes and tail.

Curious who tunes it of if its somehow pre tuned.

Seems a bargain for a "blingy" 500HP mill.

Single belt kits are killer and Id love one .

UD
 

RiverDave

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Although Id still like to see the full curve and #'s, It would have been easier better looking and faster to do that vs what I did.

Id also like to see which headers you get with that because you still have to buy S pipes and tail.

Curious who tunes it of if its somehow pre tuned.

Seems a bargain for a "blingy" 500HP mill.

Single belt kits are killer and Id love one .

UD

I shot Scott a text, he is going to send me pictures of the complete kit.

He told me he has sold a lot of the parts for the conversion, but doesn't have a complete "test mule" out there running to show results and longevity. Naturally I suggested my boat as his test mule. LOL

My intention is still to pull my Scorpion, and do this conversion. If it doesn't work out in the long run, then put the Scorpion back in. I shouldn't have to make too many modifications to my current rigging other then adding hydraulic steering and probably a shorty lower on the drive.

RD
 

rivermobster

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Your thoughts on that press release I posted?

RD

Can't remember what it was, but I know we had this conversation before! :p

You remember what was said? I don't. I will look at it more closely later.

Just to throw more LS numbers into the mix, this is something we built awhile back that you all might wanna see. Mike said he thinks this was about $17k running on the dyno just like you see it.

http://jmsservicecenter.com/ls-mania/
 
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