WELCOME TO RIVER DAVES PLACE

Bye Bye Howard Hello Nordic

Skinny Tire AH

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Absolutely..

When Magic was first coming out with their deckboat, I had one offered to me at so cheap I could've ran it for a season and sold it for 45K more then I would've bought it for. (One of my big regrets in life actually was not doing that when I had the chance)

Your tapping into a very interesting conversation about boats, but none of which I'd get mad at the mfg over. Hell for years you could buy an Ultra run it for a season or two and John West would give you full price for the boat back and sell it used for exactly what you paid for it new!

There's two reasons for that deal.. One it's either a new model and you are going to be the guinea pig and it's either gonna pay off in spades, or you are going to get burned. Or the second which is different being the rising costs of boats with the economy and mfg price increases.

RD

This is an interesting subject. Back a couple years ago, I was shopping 21' Pickles. I called company "Y" and got a price. The guy that rigged the boat I wound up buying called him as well, since he was a dealer for that brand. He quoted me, an individual 2K less than his own dealer.

That is interesting but seems that "price of the day" is more common than we think.
 

Sbarry

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Absolutely..

When Magic was first coming out with their deckboat, I had one offered to me at so cheap I could've ran it for a season and sold it for 45K more then I would've bought it for. (One of my big regrets in life actually was not doing that when I had the chance)

Your tapping into a very interesting conversation about boats, but none of which I'd get mad at the mfg over. Hell for years you could buy an Ultra run it for a season or two and John West would give you full price for the boat back and sell it used for exactly what you paid for it new!

There's two reasons for that deal.. One it's either a new model and you are going to be the guinea pig and it's either gonna pay off in spades, or you are going to get burned. Or the second which is different being the rising costs of boats with the economy and mfg price increases.

RD

I 100% agree with you especially since I was willing to pay an additional $10k no questions asked, however there is more to the story than I will put on this thread. Another conversation for another day.

Don't feel it's appropriate to bash builders on an open forum based on pricing. It's more of a conversation about if you're honest with me, I'll pay, but you try to pull a quick one, I'll go down the street
 

JD D05

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IMO if a company cannot keep up with supply it is a much better business practice to raise your price as high as it needs to go than just start taking orders you can't fill. I own a Nordic but Howard is one of the very few boats I would own.
 

Wozencraft

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IMO if a company cannot keep up with supply it is a much better business practice to raise your price as high as it needs to go than just start taking orders you can't fill. I own a Nordic but Howard is one of the very few boats I would own.

Would you own an E-Ticket? :rolleyes
 

sirbob

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I think I'll keep my comments about some of these pricing issues to myself...

That said - its great to see some new faces commenting - those of you in this thread that have double digit post counts, please don't be put off by the people who want to state their opinion in such a way as to demean your opinion. Or by those that would have you feel bad for stating your actual experience with any company.

Thank you for sharing :thumbup:

This will be a terriffic build, congatulations on the purchase - look forward to seeing it on the water this summer.:)
 

Joe mama

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I think this is a great thread! Everybody's experience will have some difference and as long as it's all truths being told it's good for everybody. Congrats on a great boat.:thumbup:
 

Andy01

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Congrats on the new purchase, Nordic had a great display and are building some very nice boats. Nice engine choice, boat will run well with that set up and be easy on fuel as well as maintenance. If you'd like me to prepare a quote for insuring the new boat please don't hesitate to ask.
 

IinsureU

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Sadly, the cost to MFG a boat in CA vs AZ and other places is really night and day. Gene has a disadvantage there for sure, and how he reacts to that accordingly is his decision whether any of us like it or not. I used to call on many of the manufacturers and was floored to learn that many had no true "liability" insurance to speak of, most had Work Comp as it is compulsory/required by law. These guys have costs to pass along, but I hate that nickel and dime mentality on every option and in all honesty, I thought DCB was really the worst in the hay day, the list and price per add-on would choke a friggin horse.
 

dirtcrew

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Congrats on the new boat! Thane was such a nice guy to talk too. Cant wait to see the build pictures.
 

CobraDave

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Congrats. Post tons of pics. Just a shout out to Cobra. I have never had a new boat. I have a 2008 23 foot that I take them and they always treat me like one of their own.
 
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Congratulations on purchasing a great quality boat! I am the guy that was in the blue and white show boat with you as we both asked John a ton of questions. Since this is the boat I too want to get, I'm gonna be your new best friend. Awesome engine package! I hope you consider starting a detailed build thread that has a ton of pictures with all of details on options, specials, etc. I agree with you that both John and Thane are straight up guys that are passionate about delivering an outstanding product, and I have no doubt that you will be treated like gold. I hope I get to ride in it after you take delivery. Congrats again, Nordic has rally stepped up their game with the boats they are now building. Impressive indeed. If you are interested, email me and I will share some thoughts on the specials I want to include into my 29 DB.

Excellent, Hopefully when I get mine on Havasu we can meet up but in the interim lets keep in touch. Reach out to Thane, he's waiting to hear from you!
 
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Not sure banging on Gene was necessary, but congrats on the new boat. Look forward to watching the build.

Dave, I would never do so if he was the least bit respectful to my wife and I. Everything that I stated is the absolute truth but the message needs to be out there as I am a stickler for customer service and the horror stories I had heard about Gene at this point appear to be true. I personally will never deal with him again after owning two of his boats. I understand your relationship with him and that you assisted in the test write up on the 288 which I know was on the straight up and as I stated his boats are built very well and cant speak ill of them. I do however think that your impression of Gene may be slightly different simply because he wanted something from you rather than the opposite and therefore treated you different than a customer. This is not my MO to bag on anyone. I will post pics soon and see you out there
 
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I find it hard to believe a boat with a huge power upgrade can still be 20k less. U either got a great deal or someone was really trying to get u. Or maybe you are getting much less as far as lights stereo and other options?? I always read if so and so was out of the equation it would have been a deal.. When we built our boat we started w a base model and price. If I wanted an upgrade like the engine I was given a price and we said yea or no. There were no big surprises. but at any rates congrats it's your boat and your happiness is all that matters.

Thanks We never got an OTD price as we never got a clear and concise list of everything that was included. Again the term "loaded was subjective with the Howard. With the Nordic, Loaded is standard so really the only difference was the 565 Vs 540 so actually it was more like 18k OTD comparably equipped
 

RiverDave

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Dave, I would never do so if he was the least bit respectful to my wife and I. Everything that I stated is the absolute truth but the message needs to be out there as I am a stickler for customer service and the horror stories I had heard about Gene at this point appear to be true. I personally will never deal with him again after owning two of his boats. I understand your relationship with him and that you assisted in the test write up on the 288 which I know was on the straight up and as I stated his boats are built very well and cant speak ill of them. I do however think that your impression of Gene may be slightly different simply because he wanted something from you rather than the opposite and therefore treated you different than a customer. This is not my MO to bag on anyone. I will post pics soon and see you out there

Well I'm sorry to hear that you came away with that impression. I would like to say a couple things though, I wasn't always "RiverDave owner of RDP." I used to just go to the boat shows to browse and bug the shit out of all the mfg's and vendors etc.. I know who's legit about things and who the pole smokers are that have changed their tune as this place grew into what it is. I have a long memory with shit like that.

I've never bought a boat from Gene, and I'm proud to call the guy a friend. We have had good times at boat shows, mexican restaurants in San Diego, and bars in Havasu. I think the guy is a riot, and I look forward to hanging out with him in either a professional capacity, or a friend capacity at the next earliest opportunity. The only thing he's ever did to piss me off was not invite me on his freakin boat when he moved slips from Monte Rey to San Diego.. :D

(By the way I didn't assist in any of the write ups of any of the tests. We did it third party to keep bias opinions out of it...)

That all said, it doesn't matter to me which one ya bought. I think Thane is by far and away the funniest guy in the boat industry, and they build a hell of a product as well. Can't go wrong with either. :) (By the way also been to a few bars with that guy as well :D)
 
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Well I'm sorry to hear that you came away with that impression. I would like to say a couple things though, I wasn't always "RiverDave owner of RDP." I used to just go to the boat shows to browse and bug the shit out of all the mfg's and vendors etc.. I know who's legit about things and who the pole smokers are that have changed their tune as this place grew into what it is. I have a long memory with shit like that.

I've never bought a boat from Gene, and I'm proud to call the guy a friend. We have had good times at boat shows, mexican restaurants in San Diego, and bars in Havasu. I think the guy is a riot, and I look forward to hanging out with him in either a professional capacity, or a friend capacity at the next earliest opportunity. The only thing he's ever did to piss me off was not invite me on his freakin boat when he moved slips from Monte Rey to San Diego.. :D

(By the way I didn't assist in any of the write ups of any of the tests. We did it third party to keep bias opinions out of it...)

That all said, it doesn't matter to me which one ya bought. I think Thane is by far and away the funniest guy in the boat industry, and they build a hell of a product as well. Can't go wrong with either. :) (By the way also been to a few bars with that guy as well :D)

Thanks Dave
 

riverroyal

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I sat with Gene about 6 months ago, could be longer, at his shop. He spent all the time with me I could have ever wanted. Great guy, funny, never felt like he was anything but a life long boat lover.

I spent some time with Thane and John at the end of summer working on a purchase. I backed out due to some college costs for my son. The 1st thing Thane said was 'schools first'. That goes a long long ways with me. I saw Thane and John at the show, they said hello by name over the crowd, told me don't buy show tickets the next day that they would cover my entire family.
They are like family even though I never purchased, actually backed out! I would consider both these guys friends now, buy them a beer around town kinda guys. That never ever happens anymore. Ive never met Randy, but Id like to think he lurks on here and is appreciative of how his biz is being handled.

I just had a question for Thane on a boat this morning, he replied right away and I think its his day off! Nordic is the type of place I want to work, maybe I should get out of socal:D
 

Liberated

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I sat with Gene about 6 months ago, could be longer, at his shop. He spent all the time with me I could have ever wanted. Great guy, funny, never felt like he was anything but a life long boat lover.

I spent some time with Thane and John at the end of summer working on a purchase. I backed out due to some college costs for my son. The 1st thing Thane said was 'schools first'. That goes a long long ways with me. I saw Thane and John at the show, they said hello by name over the crowd, told me don't buy show tickets the next day that they would cover my entire family.
They are like family even though I never purchased, actually backed out! I would consider both these guys friends now, buy them a beer around town kinda guys. That never ever happens anymore. Ive never met Randy, but Id like to think he lurks on here and is appreciative of how his biz is being handled.

I just had a question for Thane on a boat this morning, he replied right away and I think its his day off! Nordic is the type of place I want to work, maybe I should get out of socal:D

Steve, he is actually in Long Beach moving into the Fred Hall show. No rest for the wicked! :D
 

riverroyal

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Steve, he is actually in Long Beach moving into the Fred Hall show. No rest for the wicked! :D

shit weather. How long is that show? Does he have time to go out and drink at night? Ha, Im in the area.
 

575cat

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The first time I personally met Thane [beside,s all of the phone conversation,s ] was meeting up with him in Colorado springs last august to get my boat ,great guy the transaction went quick also ended up putting him in the hospital there for a couple day,s . Oh and John is a good guy also !! :D
 

JD D05

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The first time I personally met Thane [beside,s all of the phone conversation,s ] was meeting up with him in Colorado springs last august to get my boat ,great guy the transaction went quick also ended up putting him in the hospital there for a couple day,s . Oh and John is a good guy also !! :D

What did you do punch him and quickly unhook it?
 

575cat

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What did you do punch him and quickly unhook it?
No doubt , from the 900 mile trip he had his knee was ballooned up like crazy with the gout so he stopped in to get checked out and they kept him there .:yikes
 

JD D05

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No doubt , from the 900 mile trip he had his knee was ballooned up like crazy with the gout so he stopped in to get checked out and they kept him there .:yikes

Dang I didn't know he has Gout. I have that crap and it sucks.
 

relaxalot

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Are there any tests or reviews of the Nordic 29 on the water running? I have never seen one. I have a good friend who is trying to decide between the Howard and the Nordic and he was asking me if there is anything published ? I have looked but have not found anything. He recognizes that the Nordic is a large boat but he wants to know legit speeds with various power plants. I know that the twin outboard ran 86 ish? He does not want outboards. Are there any other owners out there with 525's or 600's that will post up numbers? If anyone knows of any write ups please advise. Thanks!
 

Liberated

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Are there any tests or reviews of the Nordic 29 on the water running? I have never seen one. I have a good friend who is trying to decide between the Howard and the Nordic and he was asking me if there is anything published ? I have looked but have not found anything. He recognizes that the Nordic is a large boat but he wants to know legit speeds with various power plants. I know that the twin outboard ran 86 ish? He does not want outboards. Are there any other owners out there with 525's or 600's that will post up numbers? If anyone knows of any write ups please advise. Thanks!

On the cover with a full write up in the latest Speedboat magazine.
 

RiverDave

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Are there any tests or reviews of the Nordic 29 on the water running? I have never seen one. I have a good friend who is trying to decide between the Howard and the Nordic and he was asking me if there is anything published ? I have looked but have not found anything. He recognizes that the Nordic is a large boat but he wants to know legit speeds with various power plants. I know that the twin outboard ran 86 ish? He does not want outboards. Are there any other owners out there with 525's or 600's that will post up numbers? If anyone knows of any write ups please advise. Thanks!

Unfortunately we didn't get a chance to test the 29 Nordic.

RD
 

BOOZE KROOZE

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Are there any tests or reviews of the Nordic 29 on the water running? I have never seen one. I have a good friend who is trying to decide between the Howard and the Nordic and he was asking me if there is anything published ? I have looked but have not found anything. He recognizes that the Nordic is a large boat but he wants to know legit speeds with various power plants. I know that the twin outboard ran 86 ish? He does not want outboards. Are there any other owners out there with 525's or 600's that will post up numbers? If anyone knows of any write ups please advise. Thanks!

all I know is I ran with one on the way back from the springs last year and well lets just say he tried to keep up. it was identical motor package, I talked to him briefly and he didn't seem to happy with the numbers. but then again could have been the driver.
 

relaxalot

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On the cover with a full write up in the latest Speedboat magazine.

I still can't find a link to the review. Does anyone know of a link to the review. I have seen the photos but no review.
 

relaxalot

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all I know is I ran with one on the way back from the springs last year and well lets just say he tried to keep up. it was identical motor package, I talked to him briefly and he didn't seem to happy with the numbers. but then again could have been the driver.

The Nordics are a large boat and I wouldn't expect them to run with the Howard Deck. I have heard and seen the same out on the lake. My friend who is shopping would like to know real world numbers and he hasn't been able to find any reviews with speeds.
 

Scott E

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The Nordics are a large boat and I wouldn't expect them to run with the Howard Deck. I have heard and seen the same out on the lake. My friend who is shopping would like to know real world numbers and he hasn't been able to find any reviews with speeds.

I know that Howard will have 2 288's at the Lake Havasu Boat Show, one with a 565 and one with a 600. The only way to get real world numbers is for your friend to work with both Howard and Nordic and setup a test/demo ride for either right after the show or on Monday, put both boats in the water side-by-side and go for a ride and come back and switch to the other boat. After this, all of your friends questions should be answered.

For all of the other stuff said in this thread, my father and I had an excellent buying experience with Howard, as have numerous other Howard customers we spoke with both before and after our experience. We are happy to call Gene and Mike friends.
 

orfb23

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The Nordics are a large boat and I wouldn't expect them to run with the Howard Deck. I have heard and seen the same out on the lake. My friend who is shopping would like to know real world numbers and he hasn't been able to find any reviews with speeds.

The 288 and Nordic 29 are similar in size. We have a friend with a 29 deck and side tie often. I have multiple hours of seat in each 28 sport deck, 288 sport deck with Mercury 600's and Nordic 29 with 565. If your friend would like my opinion regarding real world boating (1200 to 1500LBS of passengers) send me a PM with contact info.
 

Singleton

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The 288 and Nordic 29 are similar in size. We have a friend with a 29 deck and side tie often. I have multiple hours of seat in each 28 sport deck, 288 sport deck with Mercury 600's and Nordic 29 with 565. If your friend would like my opinion regarding real world boating (1200 to 1500LBS of passengers) send me a PM with contact info.

Just post it so everyone can read first hand experience.
 

RiverDave

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The 288 and Nordic 29 are similar in size. We have a friend with a 29 deck and side tie often. I have multiple hours of seat in each 28 sport deck, 288 sport deck with Mercury 600's and Nordic 29 with 565. If your friend would like my opinion regarding real world boating (1200 to 1500LBS of passengers) send me a PM with contact info.

I would be interested in reading that.
 

Long Way Home

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First, Congrats on the new purchase.

As for Howard Boats-I have to express what an absolute pleasure it was dealing with the crew at Howard. I had a great experience both times at Howard when I purchased two Bullets from Gene and Mike and the service provided (before and after the sale) and the quality of the boats where impressive. One of the easiest and best boat buying experiences I have had.
 

Spot

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Thanks for sharing your experience. Good luck on your new boat.
 

92562

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I know that Howard will have 2 288's at the Lake Havasu Boat Show, one with a 565 and one with a 600. The only way to get real world numbers is for your friend to work with both Howard and Nordic and setup a test/demo ride for either right after the show or on Monday, put both boats in the water side-by-side and go for a ride and come back and switch to the other boat. After this, all of your friends questions should be answered.

For all of the other stuff said in this thread, my father and I had an excellent buying experience with Howard, as have numerous other Howard customers we spoke with both before and after our experience. We are happy to call Gene and Mike friends.

Amen Scott!
 

HavaToon

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Thanks Wizard 29.. Is there a review or are there just the photos? I click on the link and I only see the pictures. Do you have to be a paid subscriber to read the article with it? Maybe operator error?

That's just the pictures. All the 2015 boat tests are in the actual magazine with the Nordic being featured in the March issue which may only be available in print. It looks like Speedboat does a digital magazine and a print alternating between them monthly.
 

Howard28

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I know Gene just from buying a boat and have had nothing but good experiences. Gene is a very passionate guy when it comes to his business. He cares very much about his product and has always gone above and beyond to help me out with anything, Sorry you had a bad experience hopefully nothing was taken personal. Maybe Gene was just having a bad day :/
 

relaxalot

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I have a Howard that I bought used and I have never purchased a boat from Howard. I have dealt with both Mike and Gene over the years and they have always been very helpful and answered any and all questions. I have ordered a few oddball items and they have happily ordered them for me and even brought them to Havasu for me. I hope I am as happy as Gene and still working at my job when I am his age. They have kept the torch lit for the Howard name and kept the flame burning through good times and bad. In my opinion they are both boat building icons. Who knows, maybe if they keep building long enough I will have enough saved to buy a new one!
 

2FORCEFULL

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Although I didn't finalize the deal like you did, I had a VERY similar experience at the show on Thursday.

The old guy I spoke to at Howard wanted $20k for a full cap, $7,700 for hydraulic steering, etc. Everything was 5k more it seemed. Its obvious he could care less about getting new customers.

I walked across the walkway to Nordic and what a better experience. The salesman went over the differences between the 26 and 29 Deck Boat, engine upgrades (Hydraulic Incl w/ 520Merc), weights, stereo, etc. I didn't feel like I was wasting his time at all. My next boat will be a Nordic, hands down. Their quote was about 20% cheaper than Howard. I couldn't see a drop-off of quality from Howard to Nordic.

Howard may make a beautiful boat, but for me, giving my money to someone who appreciates me as a customer is just as important.

nicely put.... anyone can earn money... you really have to work to earn somebody's business...
 

2FORCEFULL

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Thanks Wizard 29.. Is there a review or are there just the photos? I click on the link and I only see the pictures. Do you have to be a paid subscriber to read the article with it? Maybe operator error?

all I know is your boat sure looks nice...:thumbup:
 

kjsmith84

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Are there any tests or reviews of the Nordic 29 on the water running? I have never seen one. I have a good friend who is trying to decide between the Howard and the Nordic and he was asking me if there is anything published ? I have looked but have not found anything. He recognizes that the Nordic is a large boat but he wants to know legit speeds with various power plants. I know that the twin outboard ran 86 ish? He does not want outboards. Are there any other owners out there with 525's or 600's that will post up numbers? If anyone knows of any write ups please advise. Thanks!

my buddy has one with a 600sc and can only get it to 62mph. lol
something about he cant trim up over 800 rpms???
 

RiverDave

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my buddy has one with a 600sc and can only get it to 62mph. lol
something about he cant trim up over 800 rpms???

Something is seriously wrong with that program. I'd just take it back to Nordic I'm sure they will handle it.

RD
 

Outdrive1

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Are there any tests or reviews of the Nordic 29 on the water running? I have never seen one. I have a good friend who is trying to decide between the Howard and the Nordic and he was asking me if there is anything published ? I have looked but have not found anything. He recognizes that the Nordic is a large boat but he wants to know legit speeds with various power plants. I know that the twin outboard ran 86 ish? He does not want outboards. Are there any other owners out there with 525's or 600's that will post up numbers? If anyone knows of any write ups please advise. Thanks!

86? Really?
 

underpressure

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my buddy has one with a 600sc and can only get it to 62mph. lol
something about he cant trim up over 800 rpms???

Well, mine has a Whipple Charged 540 with an IMCO drive and it shows 98 on the tattletell speedo...normal load summer time...when I bought it (used) it had 103 on the tattletell...
 
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