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Air Conditioner Maintenance (HOME)

Flying_Lavey

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A home owner WILL not.

15 degrees is not uncommon and IM pretty sure completely expectable for a typical home owner who hasn't had a tech come in and tell him/her otherwise. That's my point

A member asked a question, my opinion hasn't changed. Not worth the money. But I also don't make a living doing this, so I will just put my tail between my legs and shut up now.

By the way I also stated pretty clearly there are guys with CORRECT knowledge here, get their opinion's.

Fuck, its like a union Vs non union thread now;)
This is the point that both RB and I are trying to make and educate fellow members about. What systems should be running like and common misconceptions that have been incorrectly spread.

I'm sure everybody in here would love to know if there was some way to make their system run more efficiently and improve the longevity. That's what a proper maintenance does. Along with preventing major issues during peak loads and maintaining a proper warranty on newer systems.

And if this was union vs non-union I wouldn't be as active in the thread. That's based on opinion formed on personal experience and that's pointless to try to change that. Lol!
 

riverroyal

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This statement couldn't be further from the truth, Regardless of SEER or quality of the equipment, Temp difference is the by product of the refrigeration cycle coupled with airflow. The refrigerant has no idea if its traveling through junk equipment or good equipment, SEER is relative to the energy efficiency of said equipment. Neither quality of product or seer have ANY affect on temp difference.

Now....are most 10seer tract homes running like shit with a low TD?....yes.

Can they run like they should?....absolutely.

90% of homes are actually oversized in capacity but undersized in airflow. Even furthering the issues.

Junk equipment and low seer. Will give you two things, noisy operation and higher per hour operating costs.

Look really close at this chart. No where does SEER or efficiency play into the TD.

View attachment 482415

Now look again.....the only factors are wet bulb return temp and dry bulb temp (humidity) [emoji6]

Here's where your "I won't pay for maintenance" logic is flawed. By having our system running so poorly you're not only severely shortening system life but the system is running far less efficiently then it could run resulting in much higher operating costs. So either way your spending the money, your just paying it in electricity AND living uncomfortably to save a couple $$ a year in repairs.

The part of you being in HVAC for 20+ years is a joke right? All of this stuff is literally stuff that 18 year old kids straight out of trade school know.

Like stated earlier our Pm program isn't a money maker for us. Our most profitable segment is actually the people with the mindset that you have. Run till it breaks..... A weak cap WILL take out a condenser fan motor. A cap replacement during a pm is 70-100. A condenser fan motor replacement is $500-600. And takes the same time. Guess which repair I would rather do? [emoji6]


Lots of info for people
Yes over 20 years. Pushing 30. Not residential, ever.

Now that you and lavey have torn me open I will say
NOPE. I'm not paying for maintenance. I also mow my lawns and wash my cars. I see the benefits of your program. For me it would never happen. I prefer it to break then fix it. But that's just me.
Which was really all I should have said

Good news is you have been able to share your program and still make me look like a ass clowns after I said ask the experts! Meaning you and carey..no idea lavey was in the business
Also different school, I'm happy 18 year olds are so wise, maybe they can get a extended warranty on a TV at best buy also

Enjoy your maintenance programs
 

dezertrider

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I'm late to the party!

If the tech added refrigerant you either never had enough or you have a leak. Many techs out there use the "oh you were just a bit low had to top you off" if you here this red flags should go off.

Refrigerant does not disappear.

Many older systems develop Micro leaks in the indoor coils. Lynch had this happen at his river house. Its good to catch it before you need AC. We do see a lot of missing "O" rings on service valve caps that some company's remove. This creates a small slow leak

You really want to throw people for a loop, show them a psychometric chart and see them try to wrap their brain around all the information. I didn't that to a couple different customers before when they were trying argue their superior understanding of how a system is supposed to work and how humidity in the house really doesn't effect performance.
Uhhh Yeaahh! That was fun learning at the SCE class. Only about 1/2 the class got it but its super valuable.

Interesting...they have worked wonders for me. My 18 year old system looks new still. T
The tech even asked me if we even use our furnace much...and we sure do.

The pleated ones clog up sooner than what I am using.

They tend to restrict more are decreasing efficiency. Either one works well for the most part. Especialy when they charge 15-20$ for a standard pleated filter

Ive been in A/C world for 27 years, since I got out of high school and straight to trade school. 1 million man hours over seen yet I still don't understand the inner workings , ok :rolleyes

There nothing to LOOK at!! If the capacitor is bad its bad, your not going to say its gonna go bad. It either is or it isn't! That's not maintenance. If theres a leak and refrig is low that's not maintenance!
Can the equipment struggle with a leak, yes. But as another person stated refrig doesn't just go away, its broke or it isn't! That's not maintenance!

by the way the typical 10 year old system does NOT have 20 to 25 temp difference. A new higher Seer maybe, but not always. Were talking tract home here, not hospitals.

Like I said, there are some trusted guys here, if you feel you need the confidence you wont have a issue over the summer then have a check up. If its free then even better. If a capacitor, motor or 'magical' leak appears there is no check up that will predict this.
Save the money for when it breaks, because the check up cost you money then the break down cost you money. In my mind why pay twice.

Now if were talking buildings, commercial, industrial, office etc that's completely different. These typically have chillers, towers, boilers, water treatment, belts, strainers, all kinds of things that need attention. A residential 3-5 ton unit, nope.

But Im only one guy, I also think a radiator flush is waste. I wont have the car that long.;)

You sure like to throw a thread sideways. :) The more you tell me how much you know the less I know you know
 

Riverbound

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This is the point that both RB and I are trying to make and educate fellow members about. What systems should be running like and common misconceptions that have been incorrectly spread.

I'm sure everybody in here would love to know if there was some way to make their system run more efficiently and improve the longevity. That's what a proper maintenance does. Along with preventing major issues during peak loads and maintaining a proper warranty on newer systems.
. Lol!

Exactly......I have come off quite a few times as a dick. But it's always been when someone is giving false facts.

Residential or commercial nothing changes. it's all about removing heat from air and the physics involved.
 

Flying_Lavey

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Lots of info for people
Yes over 20 years. Pushing 30. Not residential, ever.

Now that you and lavey have torn me open I will say
NOPE. I'm not paying for maintenance. I also mow my lawns and wash my cars. I see the benefits of your program. For me it would never happen. I prefer it to break then fix it. But that's just me.
Which was really all I should have said

Good news is you have been able to share your program and still make me look like a ass clowns after I said ask the experts! Meaning you and carey..no idea lavey was in the business
Also different school, I'm happy 18 year olds are so wise, maybe they can get a extended warranty on a TV at best buy also

Enjoy your maintenance programs

I wasn't trying to make you look bad or anything else. That's why I never said YOU didn't know this or that or what not. Just people I've heard the same opinion from. I'm not in the residential side anymore. I do commercial refrigeration service now.

I totally understand your logic for not paying for a program for yourself if you can fix it yourself though. For myself (and I'm sure RB and Dezertrider as well), I'm really just trying to sure the larger upside for those that don't want to or can't do it themselves.

So nothing personal was meant from me whatsoever.

And btw, I learned how to use a psychometric chart and how to use it for system design when I was in my first year of trade school. But that was in '06 or '07 I believe. Not sure when they started implementing that program.
 

riverroyal

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I'm late to the party!



Many older systems develop Micro leaks in the indoor coils. Lynch had this happen at his river house. Its good to catch it before you need AC. We do see a lot of missing "O" rings on service valve caps that some company's remove. This creates a small slow leak


Uhhh Yeaahh! That was fun learning at the SCE class. Only about 1/2 the class got it but its super valuable.



They tend to restrict more are decreasing efficiency. Either one works well for the most part. Especialy when they charge 15-20$ for a standard pleated filter



You sure like to throw a thread sideways. :) The more you tell me how much you know the less I know you know

I said my technical facts were off. Then said ask you guys. Should I turn in my man card?
The post was about preventative maintenance. Preventing a possible issue is the reason it's done there's also the possibility nothing goes wrong! I'm that guy. It's a gamble but the odds I like are no maintenance. That's it simple. I understand it's a portion of your income great! It's not mine
I'm not a refrig guy, I said that. I also said to much, nothing against you guys.
Maybe you have convinced some to get a 'PM' .
If you want to question my knowledge I'm good with that, if you want to say I'm a dumb ass which its headed that way, I'm fine with that also.
If you get anyone to sign up for a pm you can thank me later for getting sideway :rolleyes
 

Riverbound

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I said my technical facts were off. Then said ask you guys. Should I turn in my man card?
The post was about preventative maintenance. Preventing a possible issue is the reason it's done there's also the possibility nothing goes wrong! I'm that guy. It's a gamble but the odds I like are no maintenance. That's it simple. I understand it's a portion of your income great! It's not mine
I'm not a refrig guy, I said that. I also said to much, nothing against you guys.
Maybe you have convinced some to get a 'PM' .
If you want to question my knowledge I'm good with that, if you want to say I'm a dumb ass which its headed that way, I'm fine with that also.
If you get anyone to sign up for a pm you can thank me later for getting sideway :rolleyes

I still think YOU should PM [emoji23]
 

boatnam2

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Exactly......I have come off quite a few times as a dick. But it's always been when someone is giving false facts.

Residential or commercial nothing changes. it's all about removing heat from air and the physics involved.

Exactly what my girlfreind said lol, j/k now get my friggin A/C installed!
 

Riverbound

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Thanks for the help bill ,my chick is a tough sell!

She wasn't bad at all. It happens quite often where the guy from "Costco" gives wrong information. I just had to make sure that she was properly educated. Now your dog on the other hand if he could've gotten through that door he would've eaten my face. lol.
 

riverroyal

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I still think YOU should PM [emoji23]

Ha...
I just have to throw this out since I feel so kicked in the balls
I'm on disaster project. 3 chillers. 3 towers.400 plus fan coils.4 boilers Piping from 14" to 1/2" not sure how many miles. 2000' of 10" here already. welded and brazed on small stuff. 8 story concrete building in the fucking desert. 36000 man hours in about 8 months starting now. It's all me, my hiring my firing my meetings my coordinating.
My knowledge is good, maybe not 100% accurate on refrigeration though.

There's nothing here that can bother me. I spend all day arguing with the roughest scumbag iron workers you have ever seen. It's the desert! I come on here to relax, you guys are part of that.
I slept thru refrigeration class ha. That was a long long time ago
Cheers. I just drove 3 hours home
 

boatnam2

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She wasn't bad at all. It happens quite often where the guy from "Costco" gives wrong information. I just had to make sure that she was properly educated. Now your dog on the other hand if he could've gotten through that door he would've eaten my face. lol.

He don't like anyone in the house next to his mama, if he was on the porch he wouldn't even acknowledge you lol, i will be sure to have him out of the house during install.
 

Riverbound

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Ha...
I just have to throw this out since I feel so kicked in the balls
I'm on disaster project. 3 chillers. 3 towers.400 plus fan coils.4 boilers Piping from 14" to 1/2" not sure how many miles. 2000' of 10" here already. welded and brazed on small stuff. 8 story concrete building in the fucking desert. 36000 man hours in about 8 months starting now. It's all me, my hiring my firing my meetings my coordinating.
My knowledge is good, maybe not 100% accurate on refrigeration though.

There's nothing here that can bother me. I spend all day arguing with the roughest scumbag iron workers you have ever seen. It's the desert! I come on here to relax, you guys are part of that.
I slept thru refrigeration class ha. That was a long long time ago
Cheers. I just drove 3 hours home

Makes me love residential that much more. I'm in on a Monday out on a Friday paid to do cool shit with high profit margins. In about a month my commute will be less than 15 minutes [emoji106]
 

TCHB

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Ha...
I just have to throw this out since I feel so kicked in the balls
I'm on disaster project. 3 chillers. 3 towers.400 plus fan coils.4 boilers Piping from 14" to 1/2" not sure how many miles. 2000' of 10" here already. welded and brazed on small stuff. 8 story concrete building in the fucking desert. 36000 man hours in about 8 months starting now. It's all me, my hiring my firing my meetings my coordinating.
My knowledge is good, maybe not 100% accurate on refrigeration though.

There's nothing here that can bother me. I spend all day arguing with the roughest scumbag iron workers you have ever seen. It's the desert! I come on here to relax, you guys are part of that.
I slept thru refrigeration class ha. That was a long long time ago
Cheers. I just drove 3 hours home

You sound like you are in one of our old power plants.
 

Flying_Lavey

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Ha...
I just have to throw this out since I feel so kicked in the balls
I'm on disaster project. 3 chillers. 3 towers.400 plus fan coils.4 boilers Piping from 14" to 1/2" not sure how many miles. 2000' of 10" here already. welded and brazed on small stuff. 8 story concrete building in the fucking desert. 36000 man hours in about 8 months starting now. It's all me, my hiring my firing my meetings my coordinating.
My knowledge is good, maybe not 100% accurate on refrigeration though.

There's nothing here that can bother me. I spend all day arguing with the roughest scumbag iron workers you have ever seen. It's the desert! I come on here to relax, you guys are part of that.
I slept thru refrigeration class ha. That was a long long time ago
Cheers. I just drove 3 hours home
Been there. Not as a foreman but as an estimator and project manager. I enjoy those big jobs. Something satisfying about them.

You running steel with VIC to copper at the branches?
 

riverroyal

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Been there. Not as a foreman but as an estimator and project manager. I enjoy those big jobs. Something satisfying about them.

You running steel with VIC to copper at the branches?

HHW is all welded. Chilled is 50% grooved 50% weld with copper branches under 2 1/2"
On a side note if you guys know any GREAT fitters or welders in Riverside let me know. Must be union though. PM is fine. This project will roll right into another for a select few, long term deal. Coachella valley
 

Bobby V

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HHW is all welded. Chilled is 50% grooved 50% weld with copper branches under 2 1/2"
On a side note if you guys know any GREAT fitters or welders in Riverside let me know. Must be union though. PM is fine. This project will roll right into another for a select few, long term deal. Coachella valley

Have you checked the Colton local. My buddy was in Iowa on a big fertilization plant and he is back now. He is a fitter.
 

TCHB

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Washed the unit down with hose water and watched the dirt flow out. I am done for the summer now just changing filters.
 

dezertrider

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Ha...
I just have to throw this out since I feel so kicked in the balls
I'm on disaster project. 3 chillers. 3 towers.400 plus fan coils.4 boilers Piping from 14" to 1/2" not sure how many miles. 2000' of 10" here already. welded and brazed on small stuff. 8 story concrete building in the fucking desert. 36000 man hours in about 8 months starting now. It's all me, my hiring my firing my meetings my coordinating.
My knowledge is good, maybe not 100% accurate on refrigeration though.

There's nothing here that can bother me. I spend all day arguing with the roughest scumbag iron workers you have ever seen. It's the desert! I come on here to relax, you guys are part of that.
I slept thru refrigeration class ha. That was a long long time ago
Cheers. I just drove 3 hours home

That side of the business is tough. I did a lot of Ammonia, Industrial and supermarket refrigeration. I'm glad our business went this direction. This is more like retirement compared to the big stuff.
 

hungrybb

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I have an older home in the Scottsdale area and we are remodeling and we need all new duct work installed. Would any of you guys have someone you could recommend in the area? There's a lot of people to choose from here, but I want the system to be engineered correctly.

Thanks
 

Riverbound

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I have an older home in the Scottsdale area and we are remodeling and we need all new duct work installed. Would any of you guys have someone you could recommend in the area? There's a lot of people to choose from here, but I want the system to be engineered correctly.

Thanks

Call my buddy Jerry he is the owner of custom cooling and plumbing (602) 866-2665. I would have no problem referring people to his company and knowing that he will take care of them and the job will be done correctly. [emoji106]
 

lebel409

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So unlike it seems most of you our family uses the furnace and Ac about 6 weeks a year...a couple weeks of heater and maybe a month of AC.

So what is the maintenance like on this usage?
 

Riverbound

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So unlike it seems most of you our family uses the furnace and Ac about 6 weeks a year...a couple weeks of heater and maybe a month of AC.

So what is the maintenance like on this usage?

2x a year. It is been my experience that systems that sit idle actually break down more often. But on the flipside a system it's got a lot of run hours will have a shorter overall lifespan
 

Motor Boater

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I'm late to the party!
Many older systems develop Micro leaks in the indoor coils. Lynch had this happen at his river house. Its good to catch it before you need AC. We do see a lot of missing "O" rings on service valve caps that some company's remove. This creates a small slow leak

So I had my yearly maintenance today and the guy told my wife we were a little low on freon so he topped us off. Should I be concerned?

Call my buddy Jerry he is the owner of custom cooling and plumbing (602) 866-2665. I would have no problem referring people to his company and knowing that he will take care of them and the job will be done correctly. [emoji106]

Im feeling like I may need to call this guy.....
 

Riverbound

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So I had my yearly maintenance today and the guy told my wife we were a little low on freon so he topped us off. Should I be concerned?



Im feeling like I may need to call this guy.....

There are many reasons a system will be a "little" low. I would say a majority of the time the systems truly aren't low on refrigerant by you have a technician who works on commission or some sort of bonus structure and needs to add on to every call to make money. It's one of the reasons we use the system we use all of our technicians have to test in and test out so we have actual performance data that shows how the system ran before the repair and how the system ran after the repair. As well we can show our customers the exact diagnostic of their system and easy to understand bar graphs on a tablet.

This System is overcharged and not running correctly. Most likely the previous technician over charge the unit to get it to run as good as it can because the unit had a refrigerant restriction in the metering device. Which is one of the most difficult things to diagnose in a system.

View attachment 483812

This is what a system so that like when everything is running perfect

View attachment 483813

This tool that we use is $3000 and is hands-down the most accurate way to diagnose system performance as well as troubleshoot. Plus it logs every time we go to a property and the performance of the system each time we go there and test in and test out. So we have a documented history of system performance.
 

Riverbound

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There are many reasons a system will be a "little" low. I would say a majority of the time the systems truly aren't low on refrigerant by you have a technician who works on commission or some sort of bonus structure and needs to add on to every call to make money. It's one of the reasons we use the system we use all of our technicians have to test in and test out so we have actual performance data that shows how the system ran before the repair and how the system ran after the repair. As well we can show our customers the exact diagnostic of their system and easy to understand bar graphs on a tablet.

This System is overcharged and not running correctly. Most likely the previous technician over charge the unit to get it to run as good as it can because the unit had a refrigerant restriction in the metering device. Which is one of the most difficult things to diagnose in a system.

View attachment 483812

This is what a system so that like when everything is running perfect

View attachment 483813

This tool that we use is $3000 and is hands-down the most accurate way to diagnose system performance as well as troubleshoot. Plus it logs every time we go to a property and the performance of the system each time we go there and test in and test out. So we have a documented history of system performance.

Is is what it looks like hooked up to a unit.
View attachment 483933

Measuring air temp and humidity via a psychrometer
View attachment 483934
 

Flying_Lavey

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No. This was done by another contractor. Our installs are much much better. Lol

We do the biannual maintenance on this system.
I figured you didn't install it. I can point out at least 3 different errors in that install so I figured it wasn't yours.
 

Riverbound

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I figured you didn't install it. I can point out at least 3 different errors in that install so I figured it wasn't yours.

There's many more than that. Unfortunately his guy got taken to the cleaners and we are just trying to extend the life of the system and doing small repairs here and there as we go to lessen the blow.
 

Bobby V

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Swampers are relatively low maintenance. Twice a year is standard and I'm guessing you rarely if ever have breakdowns.;) and Carey probably also gives you a heads up to any problems or potential issues you might experience.

You jinxed me. :grumble: Just talked with Carey and my high speed fan on my house swamper isn't working. Low speed still works. I use the swamper as my secondary source but good to know he found it during my semi annual inspection just in case the AC goes out. :)
 

Flying_Lavey

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There's many more than that. Unfortunately his guy got taken to the cleaners and we are just trying to extend the life of the system and doing small repairs here and there as we go to lessen the blow.
Oh I'm sure. If I can immediately spot 3 in about 3 seconds, I know there would be plenty more issues.
 

Riverbound

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You jinxed me. :grumble: Just talked with Carey and my high speed fan on my house swamper isn't working. Low speed still works. I use the swamper as my secondary source but good to know he found it during my semi annual inspection just in case the AC goes out. :)

That's the exact reason to have preventative maintenance done. ;) so when you NEED it your stuff performs.

Case in point the house I went to this morning. I came out a year ago and it was a typical no cooling call, the customer was tired of getting the run around by his installing contractor so called us. I found the unit low on refrigerant did a visual inspection and found no evidence of a large scale leak so told him we were just going to charge the system and see what happens as i wasn't completely confident he had a leak. I come out this morning hook up my equipment and find he is once again low on charge.
View attachment 483948

I grab my leak detector and couldn't find a hit anywhere but there's some oil on the liquid line. Focus on that area and nothing (most likely a very very small leak somewhere).

We use this refrigerant stop leak product with great success. I have sold over 500 of them in the past 6 years and have only had 5 failures to date. So before we go with very expensive options (replacement of components etc.) we generally go this route with our customers. Mind you we warranty ALL residential repairs for 2 years so if it doesn't work I'm on the hook. So I add the product.
View attachment 483953
Recharge the system and it runs like a champ again.
View attachment 483954

I warrantied the refrigerant I had to use so didn't charge him for that. Just charged him for the Leak stop and if it doesn't hold he gets that charge applied to the more expensive repairs (replacement, etc.)
View attachment 483955

Most likely we won't have to go to the next level.
this is why you have maintenance done beforehand. Had he been reactive instead of preventative and waited until it got hot, his AC would not have cooled his house correctly. And he would be at the mercy of waiting for an open time to find this problem out.
 

whitemechanical

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To maintain your air conditioner (home) you should follow some of the below mentioned tips that can surely helps you to keep your AC to work efficiently.
  • You should make a routine to check ac filters and clean or replace at regular intervals.

  • Check your AC coils every year and clean it as necessary.

  • Clean your coil fins with the help of “fin comb”.

  • Check condensate drains it might prevents a unit from reducing humidity.

  • Inspect the seal between ac and window to ensure it makes a contact with the unit's metal case because moisture can damage the seal and allow air to escape from your house.

  • Ready for winters by cover it or remove or restore it.

  • You should hire an excellent HVAC professional contractor to fix other machine issues in quick time.
 

Flying_Lavey

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@dezertrider. Look who showed up to rdp. [emoji23][emoji23] wonder which one of our ex-employees this is.






Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
I'm guessing it's one that really likes window shakers and always insisted on using a fin comb to clean coils? [emoji54]

Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk
 

dezertrider

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To maintain your air conditioner (home) you should follow some of the below mentioned tips that can surely helps you to keep your AC to work efficiently.
  • You should make a routine to check ac filters and clean or replace at regular intervals.

  • Check your AC coils every year and clean it as necessary.

  • Clean your coil fins with the help of “fin comb”.

  • Check condensate drains it might prevents a unit from reducing humidity.

  • Inspect the seal between ac and window to ensure it makes a contact with the unit's metal case because moisture can damage the seal and allow air to escape from your house.

  • Ready for winters by cover it or remove or restore it.

  • You should hire an excellent HVAC professional contractor to fix other machine issues in quick time.

I sure hope this is real? Since this is your first post we need to pics of your boats and women according to the rules. Welcome to the party White
 

SoCalDave

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must be one of their team members...

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Yup, two of them are X Dynamic Employees. Good guys just to much pressure here to do a great job.

They are a good company. We like to bid against quality company’s and not two chucks in a truck

There are 4 Chucks in the above truck.
 
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My last one ran 19 years without any maintenance, except when it rained hard enough to clean the coils.
 

Tinkerer

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SEER rating has NOTHING to do with temperature splits. A 10 SEER 3 ton A/C package puts out the exact same amount of BTU's as a 20 SEER system. The difference is that the 20 SEER unit does that 3 tons of cooling for half the cost.
I don't like ANY type washable filter. They are restrictive and usually don't get cleaned as often as they should. I also tell people to NOT use ultra allergen filters unless someone in the house had allergies. Use a middle $ filter ( here they are 5 to 7 $ each ) And change them every 2 to 3 months max. Pull it out and hold it up to a window if 50% of the filter looks dark change it. Your dust might be white and the filter might still look like new.
Tune ups are a very good idea BUT there are a lot of scammers out there.
One of the local companies here did a tune up and quoted to the single mother $1200 in repairs needed.
They recommended replacing the draft inducer because the motor was drawing 1.85 amps and the rating sticker said the motor should draw 1.80 amps.
I did $265 in needed repairs.
I use dedicated gauges for different refrigerant types. If you use hoses with check valves you lose only a very small amount of refrigerant. with the system running you remove the liquid line hose ( high side ) from the service port then you open the manifold valves to allow the refrigerant to flow from the liquid line into the suction side of the condenser. Then remove the suction line hose. You lose almost nothing doing this.
 
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