Contractors turning away work - not enough employees

C-2 · Jun 30, 2016

lIQUIDATEDdAMAGES said:
It taught me more the critical thinking, problem solving, and time management aspect of what I do.

And besides the higher education you also received, you also have the flexibility of leaving your current profession and transitioning into another without the burden of having to return to school in order to do that. Getting a degree at age 22 is much, much easier than it is at age 50 - ask me how how I know

That was my only point, having a degree gives you options that others may not possess.

Cray Paper · Jun 30, 2016

The construction company I work for started investing heavily in training and really concentrating on keeping apprentice carpenters, laborers and finishers busy about 12 years ago. This training and mandate to keep apprentices working didn't come from the union, but the company owners. This latest boom is much different for us, we have the talent in the field that we need for doing 750 million a year in projects but not in the office (engineers and seasoned PM"s).

Companies that don't invest in young talent are always going to pay through the nose for it during boom times and will always struggle in the lean times. I don't own the company I work for so I don't know if it pays off, but I have seen several partners in the company I work for retiree very wealthy over the last 22 years. The company has been run with the same business model since 1967. The last original owner retired back in the late 90's.

pronstar · Jun 30, 2016

Like good leaders, good workers are trained not found.

It's akin to a baseball team like the Royals or Astros. Things may seem lean for a bit, but growing your own talent can be more effective and definitely more affordable than hiring from outside "free agents."

lIQUIDATEDdAMAGES · Jun 30, 2016

C-2 said:
And besides the higher education you also received, you also have the flexibility of leaving your current profession and transitioning into another without the burden of having to return to school in order to do that. Getting a degree at age 22 is much, much easier than it is at age 50 - ask me how how I know

That was my only point, having a degree gives you options that others may not possess.

I agree with this post as well and also the one above that says a BA is generally expected as a minimum for management.

Personally I am planning on going back for my MBA part time next year. However, in line with my original post I have a serious respect for people in the trades and what they know. Without skilled workers and subcontractors management is SOL. Similar to what IROCDAVE said above one of my previous employers was heavily invested in training it's labor force. I think this is seriously important. Also of note was that the CEO of that 3 billion a year plus organization that was invested in training it's labor force started as a union carpenter and worked his way up picking up a BS and MBA along the way to CEO...

C-2 · Jun 30, 2016

lIQUIDATEDdAMAGES said:
I agree with this post as well and also the one above that says a BA is generally expected as a minimum for management.

Personally I am planning on going back for my MBA part time next year. However, in line with my original post I have a serious respect for people in the trades and what they know. Without skilled workers and subcontractors management is SOL. Similar to what IROCDAVE said above one of my previous employers was heavily invested in training it's labor force. I think this is seriously important. Also of note was that the CEO of that 3 billion a year plus organization that was invested in training it's labor force started as a union carpenter and worked his way up picking up a BS and MBA along the way to CEO...

Congrats on the pursuit of the MBA :thumbsup

My great grandfather, my grandfather, my dad and uncle were all union carpenters (framing mostly). My brother and I also swung the hammer beginning in our late teen years. This was circa 1984 or so. At the time, my father and grandfather were disgusted with the influx of IA's, and they also saw a lot of down time - no work. So, they discouraged us from continuing with the trade. I enjoyed swinging a hammer, kicking ass, working hard, I like that type of work. Sometimes I wonder where I would be if I continued as a carpenter.

Currently I am changing careers and pursuing a degree the old fashioned way, face to face classes at the junior college and then transferring to Cal State. Two observations, a) College today is much different than 30 years ago. Way harder, the kids are smarter and overall, you learn a lot more, b) I wish I had finished college sooner. Not because it's easier to learn when you are young; rather, the aspects like you mention...critical thinking, analytical skills and even history and politics - all of them are invaluable tools and I wish I had mastered them years ago.

That's why I say there is no downside, an education carries with you for a lifetime. You don't have to use it, your profession might not require it, but there's something to be said for anybody who has tackled it. :thumbsup

Classic Daycruiser · Jun 30, 2016

Yellowboat said:
when he hits 18 send him to me...

I will put him to work, teach him a trade and pay him well. not welding, but building homes/ remodels.

I am way to bad shape to do the "heavy lifting" any more, been looking for a young guy with a strong back and great work ethic that wants to make $25+ hour, to start. can't find one. ( ps in bend $25/hour is like $50 in socal)

He in eastern Oklahoma. Working on Saturdays at a welding shop, cleaning up their yard. I'm sure they are showing him a few things, to spark his interest in a welding career.
Might join the Navy, and go through their welding program, and get his BS degree while he's in. He's got another year to figure it out.

Straight "A" student, and will be ready for college when he graduates. His brother is studying physics at Northwestern (second year GPA 3.9).

I'm with you on the heavy lifting. My body is starting to take more than a nights sleep to recovery. :violin:

BHC Vic · Jun 30, 2016

C-2 said:
Congrats on the pursuit of the MBA :thumbsup

My great grandfather, my grandfather, my dad and uncle were all union carpenters (framing mostly). My brother and I also swung the hammer beginning in our late teen years. This was circa 1984 or so. At the time, my father and grandfather were disgusted with the influx of IA's, and they also saw a lot of down time - no work. So, they discouraged us from continuing with the trade. I enjoyed swinging a hammer, kicking ass, working hard, I like that type of work. Sometimes I wonder where I would be if I continued as a carpenter.

Currently I am changing careers and pursuing a degree the old fashioned way, face to face classes at the junior college and then transferring to Cal State. Two observations, a) College today is much different than 30 years ago. Way harder, the kids are smarter and overall, you learn a lot more, b) I wish I had finished college sooner. Not because it's easier to learn when you are young; rather, the aspects like you mention...critical thinking, analytical skills and even history and politics - all of them are invaluable tools and I wish I had mastered them years ago.

That's why I say there is no downside, an education carries with you for a lifetime. You don't have to use it, your profession might not require it, but there's something to be said for anybody who has tackled it. :thumbsup

The downside is exactly where a few buddies are at. Graduated this year at 28 years old. Big debts and now job. Still living w mom and dad haven't even begun life imo.

HB2Havasu · Jun 30, 2016

There are several problems. One is that younger people are being brainwashed that having a college degree is the only way to have a future. This we know is a lie. The majority of college grads are having a difficult time finding any work once they graduate.

Another problem is illegal immigration. Back when I was in High School in the late 1970's the construction trades were one of the highest paying careers. Today I would say the wages have not kept up with the cost of living over the last 30 years. Most young people aren't going to work their ass off for $17 bucks an hour, and I can't say I blame them. Until illegal immigration is reversed I see this downward trend continuing.

The biggest problem I see is that the majority of Millennials are just flat out lazy ass mofo's.

BHC Vic · Jun 30, 2016

HB2Havasu said:
There are several problems. One is that younger people are being brainwashed that having a college degree is the only way to have a future. This we know is a lie. The majority of college grads are having a difficult time finding any work once they graduate.

Another problem is illegal immigration. Back when I was in High School in the late 1970's the construction trades were one of the highest paying careers. Today I would say the wages have not kept up with the cost of living over the last 30 years. Most young people aren't going to work their ass off for $17 bucks an hour, and I can't say I blame them. Until illegal immigration is reversed I see this downward trend continuing.

The biggest problem I see is that the majority of Millennials are just flat out lazy ass mofo's.

Unions still pay well. Journeyman carpenter is just about 60 bucks total package. I've never met one non Union guy that does better. I've always said it and challenged any non Union worker or employer to prove me wrong. Hasn't happened yet

milkmoney · Jun 30, 2016

I am looking for employment and I am white American [emoji106][emoji202][emoji41]

C-2 · Jun 30, 2016

BHC Vic said:
The downside is exactly where a few buddies are at. Graduated this year at 28 years old. Big debts and now job. Still living w mom and dad haven't even begun life imo.

28?

Big debts aren't necessary, both my nieces graduated Cal State Fullerton without their parents needing loans (school teacher and city worker salaries).

Conversely, I also have a friend with ADD, who is 62 years old, has a Masters in Accounting, had his CPA, had a teaching credential (special ed with signing), degrees in psychology and business, works as a horseshoer by trade, and has nearly $125K in student loan debt.

He didn't make logical choices for his schooling and tells me all the time...get a loan. I'm like, nope. I expect to finish my degree with zero student loan debt.

You get your general ed out of the way at community college, $48 per unit, you need a minimum of 60, some transfer tracks require more; then Cal State is $260-$280 a unit, you need 60-80 to finish your major. That's $18-20K spread over 4 years and not even considering free financial aid which could cover the majority of the tuition costs.

Both my nieces are under age 25 and using their Cal State degrees to start careers - nursing and teaching.

Like I said from the start, 4 years when you are young is nothing.

Your friends sounds like they are in another category. Get them a job!

C-2 · Jun 30, 2016

HB2Havasu said:
I agree.

And I also agree about the brainwashing part, but would add they expect that a degree "lands" them a job. Few understand the reality of having the framework in place, but you still need to apply yourself. Shame on the parents for allowing that.

BHC Vic · Jun 30, 2016

C-2 said:
28?

Big debts aren't necessary, both my nieces graduated Cal State Fullerton without their parents needing loans (school teacher and city worker salaries).

Conversely, I also have a friend with ADD, who is 62 years old, has a Masters in Accounting, had his CPA, had a teaching credential (special ed with signing), degrees in psychology and business, works as a horseshoer by trade, and has nearly $125K in student loan debt.

He didn't make logical choices for his schooling and tells me all the time...get a loan. I'm like, nope. I expect to finish my degree with zero student loan debt.

You get your general ed out of the way at community college, $48 per unit, you need a minimum of 60, some transfer tracks require more; then Cal State is $260-$280 a unit, you need 60-80 to finish your major. That's $18-20K spread over 4 years and not even considering free financial aid which could cover the majority of the tuition costs.

Both my nieces are under age 25 and using their Cal State degrees to start careers - nursing and teaching.

Like I said from the start, 4 years when you are young is nothing.

Your friends sounds like they are in another category. Get them a job!

I've gotten the ones that want to work in. My brother is 24 I got him in a few months ago after he messed around at college for a while. Some of my friend s don't like waking up early or working hard though 😜

pronstar · Jun 30, 2016

A degree may be required for a job...but that piece of paper isn't what GETS you a job, it isn't what helps you KEEP a job. And it certainly isn't what MOVES YOU UP in your job.

But I think the implication that our system bakes into young brains is that a piece of paper DOES all of these things for you.

Joker · Jun 30, 2016

Shea's going to school and on her 4th year with a degree in criminal justice. No loans as we're paying for it at close to 28k a year for housing and school. I tell her every time I see her to stay focused on a government position. Do not get a job where you rely on the economy because as we all know, it's tough to get laid off from the private sector.

C-2 · Jun 30, 2016

I'll stop popping off about school, this thread is about a shortage in the trades.

Congrats Joker - that is a solid plan. There is never a shortage of work in the criminal justice system. And great job on working your azz off to pay for school, well done and great example for your kids. :thumbsup

milkmoney · Jun 30, 2016

I think a degree and going to college helped me in a lot of ways , after looking back. I do not and don't work in the field of my degree..

I have never had to show my degree or even my high school diploma in my working life. I jus consider myself a blue collar guy like the rest of us.

I was fortunate to have no student loans as my folks paid for my education, my father gave me the option to work and pay rent or to go get an education and my rent is covered. I lasted one summer and said. Dad , I am going to college , now this was in 1985[emoji41][emoji12][emoji202]

Singleton · Jun 30, 2016

College is good for some that have an idea what they want to do and are focused on that end goal. If you have no idea of what you want to do I say learn a trade.
My oldest is studying Environmental Evolutionary Biology and already has offers to be a research scientist in the Department of Interior. His dream job is a marine scientist and without school is will never get it. I am done paying after his BS, his masters is on him. I am just glad he finally realized what do to with that degree and has a plan.

pronstar · Jun 30, 2016

College is a good option for some, but it's certainly not the only option for everyone.

That's really the point I'm trying to make.

riverroyal · Jun 30, 2016

Classic Daycruiser said:
(
One of my nephews (who's 16), wants to be a welder and drive a big diesel work truck. His dad (my brother) would like him to go too college.

The Unions should be in his school, offering him a full boat scholarship to any welding school of his choosing, and a job/career when he finishes. :grumble:

1 out of 200 kids even listen to the presentation.

My union WILL send him to college for 5 years for free. Its our apprenticeship. Its COLLEGE, you get college credits. School 2 nights a week, or all day every other week. While you go you are also working, 40 hours a weeks, starting pay in 19$, every school year you get a raise. By the time your in your 5th year your a certified welder, if you choose that path. Some guys do it sooner. You are also making high $30 a hour by then. Horrible deal huh:rolleyes

riverroyal · Jun 30, 2016

Yellowboat said:
they don't have the money... its all going to pentions that they can't fund.

they really should be going to hs and trying to talk kids into it. ( if they even can) lots of money, to be made if you want to work.

not even close. Pensions are fine. We hit military and schools non stop

Classic Daycruiser · Jun 30, 2016

milkmoney said:
I am looking for employment and I am white American [emoji106][emoji202][emoji41]

Just get your GC license, bid a couple projects, asking double the price, as others are asking 3 and 4 times more. Run by Home Depot, and pick up a couple of semi-skilled works for $15 an hour.

Mo Money, Mo Money, Mo Money.

LargeOrangeFont · Jun 30, 2016

BHC Vic said:
Some of my friend s don't like waking up early or working hard though 

That is why they still live with their parents and just got a degree at 28... It is not because of the degree or the job market.. It is laziness and/or lack of work ethic.

plaster dave · Jun 30, 2016

Work is out there, it's nice to have the work. We the contractors can pick and choose what jobs we want to do right now. [emoji1303]
As others have said no one wants to work hard even young Hispanic kids are lazy. I worry a lot because my main guy is 59 and my next guys are 46-47. My youngest is 40. I want to find young guys but no one wants to do plastering. Lol

milkmoney · Jun 30, 2016

plaster dave said:
Work is out there, it's nice to have the work. We the contractors can pick and choose what jobs we want to do right now. [emoji1303]
As others have said no one wants to work hard even young Hispanic kids are lazy. I worry a lot because my main guy is 59 and my next guys are 46-47. My youngest is 40. I want to find young guys but no one wants to do plastering. Lol

Is it a hard trade to learn or like others jus some practice makes perfect ??[emoji202]

primetime · Jun 30, 2016

I have 9 guys but need another 5-6. Just turned down $600,000 job because I can't fit it in.

BHC Vic · Jun 30, 2016

Damn I need to make things happen

plaster dave · Jun 30, 2016

milkmoney said:
Is it a hard trade to learn or like others jus some practice makes perfect ??[emoji202]

It's just hard work. I always say you have to want to be a plaster to do it. [emoji3]

traquer · Jul 1, 2016

Gents, some family friends have relatives living in Europe that are supremely skilled trades. Ages 20-50. They like to come out here if a friend or family member has a project and their rate is 1/3 to a 1/2 for extremely skilled work. My dad's pad has some great stone work I can take pics of.

These guys are hungry and I wonder if there is a way to get them work out here or if it's too much risk and liability? I heard there's a lot of quality stone and construction guys in Italy and Poland too and many of them are young. They don't know shit about U.S. code at first but they learn quick.

Contractors turning away work - not enough employees

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