Stubborn Suction Piece removal

Hi All,
It's been a long time since I've been around. I need some advice...

I just bought a 1990 Ultra. I knew it needed pump work. It is tired. The shaft was worn at the tail bearings so bad there was about 1/8" of movement. So, I'm tearing it down, but I've hit a snag. Maybe somebody out there has a genius solution. I've used up my genius.

The suction piece appears to have been glued down with some kind of RTV product. It's a 12JG pump, so there is a lot of surface area where the suction piece mates to the intake.

Has anybody fought this battle before?

Any help is appreciated.

Thanks,
Jim.

BiggusJimbus said:

Hi All,
It's been a long time since I've been around. I need some advice...

I just bought a 1990 Ultra. I knew it needed pump work. It is tired. The shaft was worn at the tail bearings so bad there was about 1/8" of movement. So, I'm tearing it down, but I've hit a snag. Maybe somebody out there has a genius solution. I've used up my genius.

The suction piece appears to have been glued down with some kind of RTV product. It's a 12JG pump, so there is a lot of surface area where the suction piece mates to the intake.

Has anybody fought this battle before?

Any help is appreciated.

Thanks,
Jim.

Click to expand...

I could be wrong here but Google IBM 5200 Sealant. Tough stuff to get off if that is what it is.

Are you sure you have all the bolts out?

Where are you located?

X Hoser said:

I could be wrong here but Google IBM 5200 Sealant. Tough stuff to get off if that is what it is.

Click to expand...

Yea, if someone used 5200 instead of a plain gasket, that would be a serious bummer.

Worst case scenario, I am kinda thinking the shaft can be removed out the back by taking the cap off the front bearing and taking the c clip off. Wear ring can be removed in the boat as well.

The suction housing doesn't really NEED to come out.

Brian

I wish I knew what it was. It's a black goop. I need to get the pump out for a major rebuild. With the amount of wear on the tail bearings, I'm suspicious of other areas. I was trying to avoid pulling the motor, but not sure I have much choice. Mostly I just don't have a good place to do it, but I do have an Idea on that. My driveway is pretty slopey, so I always dislike doing that kind of thing in it.

I'll look up the product that was suggested to see if there is anything I can do.

WIll heat cause damage to the hull? Of course, that's the last thing I want.

Thanks for the replies.

Jim.

I'm in Walnut Creek. SF Bay Area. I'll double check on the bolts, but I'm pretty sure. That would be stupid, but I've been stupid before.

Well, heat isn't a bad thing, Heat from mapp gas used wisely wont hurt it. That is how the intake has to come out.

Heat from acetylene isn't good. :yikes.

black RTV shouldn't hold it that good.

Check the bolts again.

I still don't think the suction HAS to come out.....

Brian

BiggusJimbus said:

I wish I knew what it was. It's a black goop. I need to get the pump out for a major rebuild. With the amount of wear on the tail bearings, I'm suspicious of other areas. I was trying to avoid pulling the motor, but not sure I have much choice. Mostly I just don't have a good place to do it, but I do have an Idea on that. My driveway is pretty slopey, so I always dislike doing that kind of thing in it.

I'll look up the product that was suggested to see if there is anything I can do.

WIll heat cause damage to the hull? Of course, that's the last thing I want.

Thanks for the replies.

Jim.

Click to expand...

Thanks, Brian.

I'll try some heat on it. I have a Mapp gas torch sitting right there I used to get a couple other pieces apart. I'll give it a try. If that fails, I'll pull the motor and do it in the boat. I was hoping to put the pump in front of an expert, but I've successfully done this before in a boat, so I agree it can be done.

This boat had a big old Supercharged motor in it for much of it's life. I see from the impeller it took a pretty good whack. You can see a couple good bends in a stainless impeller that will need to be massaged out or the impeller replaced. I just don't want to miss any hidden damage and have to go through this excercise again.

Jim.

wsuwrhr said:

Well, heat isn't a bad thing, Heat from mapp gas used wisely wont hurt it. That is how the intake has to come out.

Heat from acetylene isn't good. :yikes.

black RTV shouldn't hold it that good.

Check the bolts again.

I still don't think the suctions HAS to come out.....

Brian

Click to expand...

wsuwrhr said:

Worst case scenario, I am kinda thinking the shaft can be removed out the back by taking the cap off the front bearing and taking the c clip off. Wear ring can be removed in the boat as well.

The suction housing doesn't really NEED to come out.

Brian

Click to expand...

Suction housing can stay, IF the engine is out.

The shaft and bearing are removed from the front of the suction housing. NOT the rear.

From CP Performance:

[video=youtube;vwdsYGNAUeM]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vwdsYGNAUeM[/video]

Dan'l

mash on it said:

Suction housing can stay, IF the engine is out.

The shaft and bearing are removed from the front of the suction housing. NOT the rear.


Dan'l

Click to expand...

Video does not work for me, I seem to recall a snap ring on the engine side of the bearing.

Im not saying it is the best way, just another way if the suction housing don't come out.

Brian

wsuwrhr said:

Video does not work for me, I seem to recall a snap ring on the engine side of the bearing.

Im not saying it is the best way, just another way if the suction housing don't come out.

Brian

Click to expand...

It takes a 10 ton press to press the bearing onto the shaft.

How big of press to remove 20+ year old rusted and seized bearing off the shaft?

The bearing will not fall off the shaft after removing the C clip.

The shaft will not come out from the rear of the suction housing.

But I'm not a Masheen-ast, either.

Daniel

mash on it said:

It takes a 10 ton press to press the bearing onto the shaft.

How big of press to remove 20+ year old rusted and seized bearing off the shaft?

The bearing will not fall off the shaft after removing the C clip.

The shaft will not come out from the rear of the suction housing.

But I'm not a Masheen-ast, either.

Daniel

Click to expand...

Yes sir. I agree on the press.

Got it. I don't recall the front bearings coming off, or going on, that hard.

My bad.

Carry on.

Awesome. Heat did the trick. Next question, are these two flat surfaces or is there a lip that I have to clear to pull it out?

Thanks for the help. It WILL come out.

Jim.

wsuwrhr said:

Yes sir. I agree on the press.

Got it. I don't recall the front bearings coming off, or going on, that hard.

My bad.

Carry on.

Click to expand...

there is a product called 'debond" it comes in a spray can. it will make it softer so it can come off.

It's out. Thanks all. Heat is my friend.

Now, let's see what kind of shape this is in. I'm sure it's bad. At the least, I'll be putting a new shaft in there.

Will a stock shaft support 500HP? That's what the dyno sheet I have says. Maybe a bit skeptical, but we'll see once all this is back together.

Jim.

The shaft is worn offset at the tail bearings. That screams bent shaft to me. Looks like it was all a catastrophic rock event. Enough to bend the impeller vanes on the output side. I'd prefer to save the SS impeller, but we'll see. I'll have the guys at CP review it and give me some advice. Nothing else seems dramatically out of whack.

I think the snap ring is just on the Aquamet shaft.

wsuwrhr said:

Video does not work for me, I seem to recall a snap ring on the engine side of the bearing.

Im not saying it is the best way, just another way if the suction housing don't come out.

Brian

Click to expand...

BiggusJimbus said:

Hi All,
It's been a long time since I've been around. I need some advice...

I just bought a 1990 Ultra. I knew it needed pump work. It is tired. The shaft was worn at the tail bearings so bad there was about 1/8" of movement. So, I'm tearing it down, but I've hit a snag. Maybe somebody out there has a genius solution. I've used up my genius.

The suction piece appears to have been glued down with some kind of RTV product. It's a 12JG pump, so there is a lot of surface area where the suction piece mates to the intake.

Has anybody fought this battle before?

Any help is appreciated.

Thanks,
Jim.

Click to expand...

Feel free to call for some coaching, suctions should NEVER be glued or sealed to intakes if that's what I'm getting here and yes "lots of surface area" so they are a tough nut when Captain goop takes over , the trick is to crack it (the suction) loose without cracking it 805 466 4719 anytime for Tech help Tom

I appreciate to offer. Thanks very much. Always good to have that backup out there. I'm going up to CP tomorrow. They will look over my pieces and advise on choices. I'm sure the shaft is toast. I'm 50/50 on saving the impeller. I think the rest of the housings and non-rebuild parts should check out OK.

I promise to NOT glue the intake back in. If I own this boat long enough, I'll want to get back in there someday.

I'll post my results.

these groups always keep me on the right track. Gotta love the interwebz.

Jim.

jetboatperformance said:

Feel free to call for some coaching, suctions should NEVER be glued or sealed to intakes if that's what I'm getting here and yes "lots of surface area" so they are a tough nut when Captain goop takes over , the trick is to crack it (the suction) loose without cracking it 805 466 4719 anytime for Tech help Tom

Click to expand...

OK, Things are coming along swimmingly.

Next challenge... I'm trying to seat the bearing cap seal. Not having much luck. Any suggestions?

Thanks in advance,
Jim.

Thanks for you time on the phone this morning, Tom. Much appreciate the advice and the information.

If I don't get sidetracked, I should be all back together this afternoon.

Jim.

mash on it said:

Suction housing can stay, IF the engine is out.

The shaft and bearing are removed from the front of the suction housing. NOT the rear.

From CP Performance:

[video=youtube;vwdsYGNAUeM]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vwdsYGNAUeM[/video]

Dan'l

Click to expand...

BTW, Brian,
You are correct about the snap ring. It is ALL shafts. I should limit myself to speaking about things I actually know about. :rolleyes

wsuwrhr said:

Video does not work for me, I seem to recall a snap ring on the engine side of the bearing.

Im not saying it is the best way, just another way if the suction housing don't come out.

Brian

Click to expand...

BiggusJimbus said:

BTW, Brian,
You are correct about the snap ring. It is ALL shafts. I should limit myself to speaking about things I actually know about. :rolleyes

Click to expand...

It's all good Jim.

Not sure if you caught it, but Tom over at Jet Boat Performance has saved me on more than one occassion when I was rebuilding my jet (old boat).

Tom-Jet Boat Performance-805 466 4719

Sure did. Got some sound advice from him this morning. Thanks.

t&y said:

Not sure if you caught it, but Tom over at Jet Boat Performance has saved me on more than one occassion when I was rebuilding my jet (old boat).

Tom-Jet Boat Performance-805 466 4719

Click to expand...