Trump Care

boatdoc55 · Jun 25, 2017

Just like most in here, the wife and I were rolling right along with a plan we could afford and liked.Then Odipshit decides his black hommies in Chicago deserve insurance, wham our policy triples. Now we have baby, mental health, dependency and all kinds of other shit we have no need for. Forced us to go on his homies plan for triple what we were happy with. Fuck him and his corrupt administration. Why can't we go back to what we all had 1 day before this fuckhead's plan went into effect.

Stainless · Jun 25, 2017

I'll preface with I only know what I've seen on TV, but why is a tax cut for the wealthy in the healthcare bill? Why isn't that part of tax reform?

Skinny Tire AH · Jun 25, 2017

Stainless said:
I'll preface with I only know what I've seen on TV, but why is a tax cut for the wealthy in the healthcare bill? Why isn't that part of tax reform?

Come on buddy, Don't you understand the lefts playbook yet? Everything that lessens any type of burden on anyone in the upper income brackets is a "Tax break for the rich"

Just wait till you see the fit the left throws over "REAL tax breaks for the rich"

Stainless · Jun 25, 2017

nganga said:
Come on buddy, Don't you understand the lefts playbook yet? Everything that lessens any type of burden on anyone in the upper income brackets is a "Tax break for the rich"

Just wait till you see the fit the left throws over "REAL tax breaks for the rich"

Yea, I get that but why is it in the healthcare bill? To me it would get the Dems to the table unless like you suggest it's actually something else. Today I'm watching CBS. [emoji3]

was thatguy · Jun 25, 2017

boatdoc55 said:
Just like most in here, the wife and I were rolling right along with a plan we could afford and liked.Then Odipshit decides his black hommies in Chicago deserve insurance, wham our policy triples. Now we have baby, mental health, dependency and all kinds of other shit we have no need for. Forced us to go on his homies plan for triple what we were happy with. Fuck him and his corrupt administration. Why can't we go back to what we all had 1 day before this fuckhead's plan went into effect.

Oh do NOT get me started.

I could type a novel on the bullshit that we've gone through over the last 4 years...and we were some of the lucky ones. I watched others flat out lose there care providers right in the middle of chemo regimens.

The supporters of ocare tout the relative few who now have some sort of bullshit "coverage" that were e-room users before as a great achievement, they discard as falsehood the very real predicaments that it left others like ourselves in.

The cost of our individual PPO's doubled, but we were grandfathered in...partly due to the fact that we NEVER had a gap in coverage for a decade. Every employer I am familiar with dropped group plans and doled out a dollar or so raise to employees...who then quickly discovered that whatever they could budget for a plan left them just about with a plan similar to the lowest freebie recipients.

There is no question that health care costs, and the related health coverage is a fucking mess.
But there were options that could have been explored before politicizing the whole fucking deal.

Ocare was and is a fucking disaster for those who, as 530 loves to preach, took personal responsibility over the years to make sure they had insurance.
My number one priority is Debbie's premium and deductible. Before anything else that is priority one.
Mine is long gone. I'm riding cobra on a shit plan from my last water well employer.

When our combined premiums broke over 2 grand a month, with $8K deductibles mine had to go.

I'm afraid that the entire system is too far gone down the rabbit hole to ever "fix".

Skinny Tire AH · Jun 25, 2017

Stainless said:
Yea, I get that but why is it in the healthcare bill? To me it would get the Dems to the table unless like you suggest it's actually something else. Today I'm watching CBS. [emoji3]

It's just how Washington works man. I think it may have to do with 51 votes needed for reconciliation, which is limited to a tax bill or budget? Not sure through. If its a straight bill the Senate needs 60 votes. Never happen, hell this bill has 5 R Senators that are saying no way.

Stainless · Jun 25, 2017

nganga said:
It's just how Washington works man. I think it may have to do with 51 votes needed for reconciliation, which is limited to a tax bill or budget? Not sure through. If its a straight bill the Senate needs 60 votes. Never happen, hell this bill has 5 R Senators that are saying no way.

If they get those 5 R Senators in it may push some more moderate R's out such as the lady Senator from Maine(can't remember her name).
I think they will advance something next week, but the question is will it be better? I also think it's more about repealing O care to fulfill campaign promises. A Pro Trump super PAC is running some pointed adds at the Senator from Nevada. I think he is up for re-election in '18. One thing for sure it's a political tightrope for Senators up for re-election.

Stainless · Jun 25, 2017

nganga said:
It's just how Washington works man. I think it may have to do with 51 votes needed for reconciliation, which is limited to a tax bill or budget? Not sure through. If its a straight bill the Senate needs 60 votes. Never happen, hell this bill has 5 R Senators that are saying no way.

Forgot to comment, you're probably correct about reconciliation, forgot about that.

530RL · Jun 25, 2017

was thatguy said:
Oh do NOT get me started.

I could type a novel on the bullshit that we've gone through over the last 4 years...and we were some of the lucky ones. I watched others flat out lose there care providers right in the middle of chemo regimens.

The supporters of ocare tout the relative few who now have some sort of bullshit "coverage" that were e-room users before as a great achievement, they discard as falsehood the very real predicaments that it left others like ourselves in.

The cost of our individual PPO's doubled, but we were grandfathered in...partly due to the fact that we NEVER had a gap in coverage for a decade. Every employer I am familiar with dropped group plans and doled out a dollar or so raise to employees...who then quickly discovered that whatever they could budget for a plan left them just about with a plan similar to the lowest freebie recipients.

There is no question that health care costs, and the related health coverage is a fucking mess.
But there were options that could have been explored before politicizing the whole fucking deal.

Ocare was and is a fucking disaster for those who, as 530 loves to preach, took personal responsibility over the years to make sure they had insurance.
My number one priority is Debbie's premium and deductible. Before anything else that is priority one.
Mine is long gone. I'm riding cobra on a shit plan from my last water well employer.

When our combined premiums broke over 2 grand a month, with $8K deductibles mine had to go.

I'm afraid that the entire system is too far gone down the rabbit hole to ever "fix".

From an implementation standpoint, we can't unring the bell on the ACA which most, who do not have a corporate plan, would agree is and was a mess.

But Trumpcare allows people like you and I who are protected because we do not have a gap in coverage, to be cancelled. I'd certainly cancel my ass if I was an insurance company as well as anyone else with a history of cancer or heart disease or any other expensive condition even if it is not a result of personal choices. After all, insurance is a business.

So if you think the ACA was bad, just wait until Trumpcare is passed.

75% of Arizona's medicaid budget is from ACA expansion. Those monies are phased out over time in the Senate bill and quicker in the house bill. Not cuts in growth, but actually cuts in dollars. That money will have to come from somewhere, so we might as well just accept state taxes are gonna have to go up. It will be very hard to stop and/or reduce paying for the healthcare of indigent children who now have coverage up to 138% of the poverty line under ACA medicaid expansion.

The irony is that when you combine the fucks up with the ACA, with the fuck ups contained in Trumpcare, it becomes a world class cluster fuck.

Government at its finest. #MAGA

On a more indicative note, healthcare related stocks are up after the Senate bill which tells me that the market does not believe the final result that would come out of a combined Senate/House bill is going to look like this, as 35 million less paying customers (regardless of whom is paying) is not a positive for these companies. The market seems to think this will not pass as proposed. If they start going down en masse, I suspect something on these lines is going to pass.

Stainless · Jun 25, 2017

530RL said:
From an implementation standpoint, we can't unring the bell on the ACA which most, who do not have a corporate plan, would agree is and was a mess.

But Trumpcare allows people like you and I who are protected because we do not have a gap in coverage, to be cancelled. I'd certainly cancel my ass if I was an insurance company as well as anyone else with a history of cancer or heart disease or any other expensive condition even if it is not a result of personal choices. After all, insurance is a business.

So if you think the ACA was bad, just wait until Trumpcare is passed.

75% of Arizona's medicaid budget is from ACA expansion. Those monies are phased out over time in the Senate bill and quicker in the house bill. Not cuts in growth, but actually cuts in dollars. That money will have to come from somewhere, so we might as well just accept state taxes are gonna have to go up. It will be very hard to stop and/or reduce paying for the healthcare of indigent children who now have coverage up to 138% of the poverty line under ACA medicaid expansion.

The irony is that when you combine the fucks up with the ACA, with the fuck ups contained in Trumpcare, it becomes a world class cluster fuck.

Government at its finest. #MAGA

On a more indicative note, healthcare related stocks are up after the Senate bill which tells me that the market does not believe the final result that would come out of a combined Senate/House bill is going to look like this, as 35 million less paying customers (regardless of whom is paying) is not a positive for these companies. The market seems to think this will not pass as proposed. If they start going down en masse, I suspect something on these lines is going to pass.

Great insight! [emoji106]

AzGeo · Jun 25, 2017

It seems to me that most of it is UP IN THE AIR, so how can any of you 'GREAT MINDS" tell us what it will actually look like when voted on ???

WHY don't all you 'great minds' wait until the actual legislation is published, and then make comments ?

Or is it just the fact that YOU ALL want to comment on everything you know little about, so you end up looking like FOOLS .

WHO do you guys think you are, Chuck Schumer, Nancy Pelosi, or just their ' mindless sheeple' ?

Stainless · Jun 25, 2017

Conway got her ass handed to her again by George S on This Week, I don't know why she comes on TV. [emoji3]

Royally PO'd · Jun 25, 2017

530, I'm actually proud of your post # 59, not that you give a shit about my thinking, although I noticed a reference to my coherent comment. Just so you don't think I'm a ringer, I think we should regress to the old "Law of the jungle", rather than pass more useless laws, IE you either play straight or pay the consequences. Anyone with a basic grasp of math, knows that without somehow curtailing the costs of medical care, there is NO equitable way of covering everyone.. Besides, EVERYONE'S life is not equal in value...

530RL · Jun 25, 2017

AzGeo said:
It seems to me that most of it is UP IN THE AIR, so how can any of you 'GREAT MINDS" tell us what it will actually look like when voted on ???

WHY don't all you 'great minds' wait until the actual legislation is published, and then make comments ?

Or is it just the fact that YOU ALL want to comment on everything you know little about, so you end up looking like FOOLS .

WHO do you guys think you are, Chuck Schumer, Nancy Pelosi, or just their ' mindless sheeple' ?

Great idea Nancy, we need to wait until it passes to see what is in it.......... :smackhead

Stainless · Jun 25, 2017

530RL said:
Great idea Nancy, we need to wait until it passes to see what is in it.......... :smackhead

I was going to post the same thing.

530RL · Jun 25, 2017

Royally PO'd said:
530, I'm actually proud of your post # 59, not that you give a shit about my thinking, although I noticed a reference to my coherent comment. Just so you don't think I'm a ringer, I think we should regress to the old "Law of the jungle", rather than pass more useless laws, IE you either play straight or pay the consequences. Anyone with a basic grasp of math, knows that without somehow curtailing the costs of medical care, there is NO equitable way of covering everyone.. Besides, EVERYONE'S life is not equal in value...

With respect to your last statement, George Orwell covered that quite correctly in Animal Farm. If only the Trumpkins could understand this.

RodnJen · Jun 25, 2017

Stainless said:
Conway got her ass handed to her again by George S on This Week, I don't know why she comes on TV. [emoji3]

I saw that. The "losers" comment was typical and priceless.

Stainless · Jun 25, 2017

RodnJen said:
I saw that. The "losers" comment was typical and priceless.

[emoji106]

Stainless · Jun 26, 2017

Best tweet today by Richard Painter; the new healthcare bill "would be complete if it covered funeral expenses" [emoji3]

AzGeo · Jun 26, 2017

530RL said:
Great idea Nancy, we need to wait until it passes to see what is in it.......... :smackhead

I did not say after it is passed into law !

But when it comes to GENERALISING any statements around here, we can all count on you .

Remember back when HRC tried to get this ball rolling, when she was First Lady ?

The big problem back then was TORT REFORM, which they 'said' led to rising medical costs .

I've never heard Obama or Trump say a word on TORT REFORM, as it relates to healthcare .

So what I'm now hearing is that high costs of treatment, and high cost liability insurance for doctors, nurses, and health facilities is just a GIVEN, and the sky's the limit for future healthcare costs, no matter who's name is on the plan ?

I am very disappointed at the GOP, for not having all this REPEAL and REPLACE OBAMA CARE shit figured out years ago ..............

530RL · Jun 26, 2017

AzGeo said:
I did not say after it is passed into law !

But when it comes to GENERALISING any statements around here, we can all count on you .

Remember back when HRC tried to get this ball rolling, when she was First Lady ?

The big problem back then was TORT REFORM, which they 'said' led to rising medical costs .

I've never heard Obama or Trump say a word on TORT REFORM, as it relates to healthcare .

So what I'm now hearing is that high costs of treatment, and high cost liability insurance for doctors, nurses, and health facilities is just a GIVEN, and the sky's the limit for future healthcare costs, no matter who's name is on the plan ?

I am very disappointed at the GOP, for not having all this REPEAL and REPLACE OBAMA CARE shit figured out years ago ..............

LOL

Oh......Published.........

Here it is sport.....

It was "PUBLISHED" last thursday at 9 in the morning. Hence the comments.

http://www.cnn.com/2017/06/22/politics/republican-health-care-bill-text/index.html

Stainless · Jun 26, 2017

AzGeo said:
So what I'm now hearing is that high costs of treatment, and high cost liability insurance for doctors, nurses, and health facilities is just a GIVEN, and the sky's the limit for future healthcare costs, no matter who's name is on the plan ?

^^^This is what I expect to happen based on what I've learned about it and the increases in cost of healthcare year after.

Stainless · Jun 26, 2017

The CBO report may be released today. It will have a big influence on moderate R Senators.

Old Texan · Jun 26, 2017

In my opinion, if Rand Paul and Cruz and others don't feel the bill is done correctly, send it back and get it right.

It's Congress' job to do these things correctly and not make it into a game of trade offs. Maybe even get the Dems to offer up some must haves to at least consider.:rolleyes

A major part of the problems the nation deals with is legislation is either D or R depending on the majorities. Damned sad we don't have elected officials with the fortitude to do what's right for the people rather, than just follow along with their party.

was thatguy · Jun 26, 2017

Old Texan said:
In my opinion, if Rand Paul and Cruz and others don't feel the bill is done correctly, send it back and get it right.

It's Congress' job to do these things correctly and not make it into a game of trade offs. Maybe even get the Dems to offer up some must haves to at least consider.:rolleyes

A major part of the problems the nation deals with is legislation is either D or R depending on the majorities. Damned sad we don't have elected officials with the fortitude to do what's right for the people rather, than just follow along with their party.

Well...we have one at least!

Royally PO'd · Jun 26, 2017

There are a couple that get it, but mostly it's the same old garbage. Until someone has the balls to take on the healthcare industry, NOTHING will work...

RodnJen · Jun 26, 2017

Royally PO'd said:
There are a couple that get it, but mostly it's the same old garbage. Until someone has the balls to take on the healthcare industry, NOTHING will work...

Do you include the insurance industry in this?

boatdoc55 · Jun 26, 2017

was thatguy said:
Well...we have one at least!

Thank God!!!!

Stainless · Jun 26, 2017

Revised version out, 6 month waiting period added if you let coverage lapse.
What do you older members think about the possibility that your premiums will go up due to the risk matrix?

KevinR · Jun 26, 2017

Stainless said:
Revised version out, 6 month waiting period added if you let coverage lapse.
What do you older members think about the possibility that your premiums will go up due to the risk matrix?

I don't know what you consider "older members" but my wife and I are 60 and 61, live in Calicommyfornia.

Since Obamacare came to the scene our premiums have jumped each year big time, deductibles too, have lost previous doctors we could use and we have less overall coverage.

My opinion is it's not a "possibility premiums will go up due to the risk matrix." It's as certain as "If you like your doctor you can keep your doctor". :thumbsdown

Stainless · Jun 26, 2017

KevinR said:
I don't know what you consider "older members" but my wife and I are 60 and 61, live in Calicommyfornia.

Since Obamacare came to the scene our premiums have jumped each year big time, deductibles too, have lost previous doctors we could use and we have less overall coverage.

My opinion is it's not a "possibility premiums will go up due to the risk matrix." It's as certain as "If you like your doctor you can keep your doctor". :thumbsdown

✔️ I agree it's likely going up even with Trumps name on it. Similar to auto insurance, high risk = higher premium.

Old Texan · Jun 26, 2017

Stainless said:
Revised version out, 6 month waiting period added if you let coverage lapse.
What do you older members think about the possibility that your premiums will go up due to the risk matrix?

This kind of bullshit would go away if folks were allowed to carry policies with them when changing jobs or retiring.

Over the past few years the public has been vocal on numerous points they want fixed and yet Congress does not respond. No matter the party, Congress just does not get it and is deaf to the issues. Open state borders to purchase would offer competitive and reasonable costs without being a part of a business/corporate plan. This should be simple enough to work out. As are other issues.

They make it more complicated than it needs to be. I still maintain if Congress and government employees were required to use only the plan they present to the citizens, they'd come up with something acceptable.

RodnJen · Jun 26, 2017

Old Texan said:
This kind of bullshit would go away if folks were allowed to carry policies with them when changing jobs or retiring.

Single payer.

[/QUOTE]Over the past few years the public has been vocal on numerous points they want fixed and yet Congress does not respond. No matter the party, Congress just does not get it and is deaf to the issues. Open state borders to purchase would offer competitive and reasonable costs without being a part of a business/corporate plan. This should be simple enough to work out. As are other issues.[/QUOTE]

There is plenty of data and articles that suggest this isn't true. See Forbes article below: (link wouldn't work)

But insurers can sell across state lines in some states, and it hasn?t reined in costs or worked, largely because insurance companies haven?t wanted to spend the money contracting with more doctors and hospitals.
?Currently individual states can decide whether or not to allow insurers to sell plans from another state in their state,? the Center for Health and Economy wrote about Trump?s health plan during last year?s presidential campaign. ?However, even where this is allowed, various barriers such as the difficulty of building a network and attracting enough customers to create a large enough risk pool make it unappealing to insurers to pursue this option.They make it more complicated than it needs to be. I still maintain if Congress and government employees were required to use only the plan they present to the citizens, they'd come up with something acceptable.[/QUOTE]

Most government employees receive insurance just like any other employee. They are also in risk pools along with private sector employees.

Edit: added larger font for clarity, looks like shit.

RodnJen · Jun 26, 2017

Winning!:rolleyes

Stainless · Jun 26, 2017

CNN reporting 22M fewer uninsured than O'care. Am I understanding that correctly or did they mean "more" uninsured?
If so that should make it a winner?

RodnJen · Jun 26, 2017

Stainless said:
CNN reporting 22M fewer uninsured than O'care. Am I understanding that correctly or did they mean "more" uninsured?
If so that should make it a winner?

Yes, it would increase the number of uninsured by 22 million people by 2026.

Andy B. · Jun 26, 2017

RodnJen said:
Winning!:rolleyes

It's all fucked government needs to get out of it period!! They don't tell you the MILLIONS of people that lost it because they couldn't afford it anymore because of o shitcare, tell the hole story not just half! So sick of these commercials now millions will lose it but nothing about the millions that already lost it!!! Such bullshit fuck congress and politicians they're all self serving crooks and assholes!! How about that for name calling!

Some people that have it now shouldn't have gotten it the first place! Get a job pay your own way i'm sick and tired of paying for the freeloaders in this country!!!!!

regor · Jun 26, 2017

RodnJen said:
Yes, it would increase the number of uninsured by 22 million people by 2026.

What about Planned Parenthood, how'd they do?

Stainless · Jun 26, 2017

RodnJen said:
Yes, it would increase the number of uninsured by 22 million people by 2026.

✔️

was thatguy · Jun 26, 2017

Andy B. said:
It's all fucked government needs to get out of it period!! They don't tell you the MILLIONS of people that lost it because they couldn't afford it anymore because of o shitcare, tell the hole story not just half! So sick of these commercials now millions will lose it but nothing about the millions that already lost it!!! Such bullshit fuck congress and politicians they're all self serving crooks and assholes!! How about that for name calling!

Some people that have it now shouldn't have gotten it the first place! Get a job pay your own way i'm sick and tired of paying for the freeloaders in this country!!!!!

Exactly. No mention of how many group plans were dropped.

Old Texan · Jun 26, 2017

RodnJen said:
Single payer.

I had single payer typed out and deleted it. To set many rules/guidelines may just lead to single payer. There has to be means to create competition and keep government out as much as possible.

Sandlord · Jun 26, 2017

Senate Republicans? health care bill would reduce the federal deficit and eventually lead to lower premiums, but would result in millions more Americans being uninsured a decade from now, according to a fresh analysis from Capitol Hill?s nonpartisan budget scorekeepers.
...
In terms of coverage, the CBO and Joint Committee on Taxation report said the proposal would increase the number of uninsured by 22 million in 2026 relative to current law.

This is ?primarily because the penalty for not having insurance would be eliminated,? the analysis noted, adding lower Medicaid spending and smaller subsidies also would reduce enrollment in later years.

So the removal of the penalty would be the main cause of the 22 million people losing coverage. Sounds like a Free Market Economy to me.

Skinny Tire AH · Jun 26, 2017

As I've said prior, what the hell was wrong with the system prior Obama care, and exactly where are we guaranteed health care? Whats next? Free housing, Free food, free phones...Oh, wait. :rolleyes

Andy B. · Jun 26, 2017

nganga said:
As I've said prior, what the hell was wrong with the system prior Obama care, and exactly where are we guaranteed health care? Whats next? Free housing, Free food, free phones...Oh, wait. :rolleyes

Utopia works what are thinking!!!! It's working well in Venezuela just ask regor.:skull

94Nautique · Jun 26, 2017

RodnJen said:
Yes, it would increase the number of uninsured by 22 million people by 2026.

https://www.bloomberg.com/graphics/2016-obamacare/ so it's about the same as pre Obama care. And billions stay in the hands of people that earned that money. And where is health outcomes factored in, not talking about slush funds to insurance companies. Just because you have insurance doesn't mean you have better health outcomes, especially at the margin of full coverage (read: those at the margin are young and healthy and don't need it)

regor · Jun 26, 2017

Andy B. said:
Utopia works what are thinking!!!! It's working well in Venezuela just ask regor.:skull

Did somebody say Hugo Chavez?!!!!!! :headscratch:

spectra3279 · Jun 26, 2017

Shit. I remeber when Obama took office. I was working at northrup. My insurance for me and my kids was 250 a month , my expense, and had a 20 dollar copay. I did not have a deductible. Now I have a 7k deductable. A 35 dollar copay and I'm paying 250 a paycheck for just me. I have used it 3 times in 5 years. And they did not pay a single dime. As of right now, I would have saved about 28k had I not had insurance and just payed the doctor.

Sandlord · Jun 27, 2017

my friends son just paid the penalty instead of buying in to the exchange. It still cost him about $800 per year.
Then when he had to have his appendix out, they signed him up for insurance at the hospital. He saved a bundle.
I wonder if he cancelled it again.

Stainless · Jun 27, 2017

Pass or not there's going to be a lot of protesting by both sides as lawmakers break for July 4th and return to their districts and states.

SNiC Jet · Jun 27, 2017

Today, both the House and Senate have agreed to shift all control of the U.S. Military and National Security to a panel derived of the top 20 Hospital & Health Care Executives. The logic being; whereas Congress knows NOTHING ABOUT HEALTH CARE AND INSURANCE would partner very well with those who KNOW ABSOLUTELY NOTHING ABOUT OUR MILITARY DEFENSE AND NATIONAL SECURITY!

Makes sense doesn't it? :hmm

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