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Grandpa mac

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No.
What I've posted is the "Drake Equation"
It is a mathematical equation that is one hypothesis in calculating the probability of life beyond earth in our Galaxy.

View attachment 575070
It applies in this debate as follows:

There is one fundamental flaw with this equation as seen by its detractors. And that is that it is based on a presumption of life existing beyond earth. This in itself disqualifies the entire premise according to its detractors.
The reasons for not accepting the premise of life beyond earth vary by individual...maybe its religious reasons, or simply a dismissal of the possibility out of hand...they just can't accept it.

Here, we have Shameless dismissing out of hand every topic based on probabilities and circumstance as pure conspiracy theory.
This parallel's the detractors of the Drake equation.
They will not accept the equation of probability because the entire concept is impossible to accept.
Shameless will NEVER be convinced of the possibility that these "conspiracy theories" are more probable than not, because the entire concept is beyond his ability to accept.

It's a lot easier to mock those who accept the very real probability that these theories are correct in some way at some level.

Like the drake detractors who will never accept even a theoretical reduction equation...he will never accept anything less than Killary in the room standing over a body with a smoking gun...and that is NEVER going to happen.
He asks for proof, but he doesn't really want it. The probability of truth seems to scare him...because that would mean he is wrong...something you'd think he'd be used to by now.

What a great post! It takes real imagination to link Hillary to the search for extraterrestrial life and the Drake equation. I think I would argue against your premise though. I happen to be an atheist because, while I concede the possibility of God, I have seen no evidence for His existence and certainly not really good evidence for it. To me, the more incredible the claim the more incredible the evidence you need to produce for it. Almost anything is possible, but I'm not gonna waste a lot of time on debating the existence of leprechauns until somebody offers pretty compelling reason to believe in the wee people.
 

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What a great post! It takes real imagination to link Hillary to the search for extraterrestrial life and the Drake equation. I think I would argue against your premise though. I happen to be an atheist because, while I concede the possibility of God, I have seen no evidence for His existence and certainly not really good evidence for it. To me, the more incredible the claim the more incredible the evidence you need to produce for it. Almost anything is possible, but I'm not gonna waste a lot of time on debating the existence of leprechauns until somebody offers pretty compelling reason to believe in the wee people.

GPAU!! Lmao! [emoji23] [emoji109]
 

was thatguy

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What a great post! It takes real imagination to link Hillary to the search for extraterrestrial life and the Drake equation. I think I would argue against your premise though. I happen to be an atheist because, while I concede the possibility of God, I have seen no evidence for His existence and certainly not really good evidence for it. To me, the more incredible the claim the more incredible the evidence you need to produce for it. Almost anything is possible, but I'm not gonna waste a lot of time on debating the existence of leprechauns until somebody offers pretty compelling reason to believe in the wee people.

It's a post of comparison, granted.
But it's important to reckonize that it isn't my equation, it's Frank Drakes equation.
Frank Drake, PHD, graduate of Harvard, etc.
are you familiar with the press release (DC press corp meeting) of 2001?

No fewer than a dozen retired PHD's, ex military officers, Pentagon employees, etc all with decades of top secret "eyes only" clearance making statements of government cover up of extraterrestrial existence? To a man they all finished with "I will testify under oath before congress that what I say is the truth"...

These are all what can be considered "learned" men with 100% access to info and first hand knowledge. So yeah, I tend to lend validity to their statements...much more than I lend validity to some closed minded suck ass from Tucson. It's rather sad that some can be so "limited" in their understanding and comprehension.

"Leprechauns" exist on cereal boxes. Educated, high intelligence PHD's with lifelong top secret clearance and, by extension, top secret knowledge, might bear a slightly better reason to be listened to.

The reduction equation can be applied to many scenarios not associated with the primary reason for its development.

For example, changing the input factors to the body count associated with the Clintons will still yield a solution.
Atheist is fine with me. I have my own belief regarding "God", the supreme being, and the creation of man itself...and I can assure you it does not align with fundamental church teachings.
Sadly, I also am 99.9% convinced that the inner workings of the church is aware of the same "truths" that guide my faith.
 

Grandpa mac

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It's a post of comparison, granted.
But it's important to reckonize that it isn't my equation, it's Frank Drakes equation.
Frank Drake, PHD, graduate of Harvard, etc.
are you familiar with the press release (DC press corp meeting) of 2001?

No fewer than a dozen retired PHD's, ex military officers, Pentagon employees, etc all with decades of top secret "eyes only" clearance making statements of government cover up of extraterrestrial existence? To a man they all finished with "I will testify under oath before congress that what I say is the truth"...

These are all what can be considered "learned" men with 100% access to info and first hand knowledge. So yeah, I tend to lend validity to their statements...much more than I lend validity to some closed minded suck ass from Tucson. It's rather sad that some can be so "limited" in their understanding and comprehension.

"Leprechauns" exist on cereal boxes. Educated, high intelligence PHD's with lifelong top secret clearance and, by extension, top secret knowledge, might bear a slightly better reason to be listened to.

The reduction equation can be applied to many scenarios not associated with the primary reason for its development.

For example, changing the input factors to the body count associated with the Clintons will still yield a solution.
Atheist is fine with me. I have my own belief regarding "God", the supreme being, and the creation of man itself...and I can assure you it does not align with fundamental church teachings.
Sadly, I also am 99.9% convinced that the inner workings of the church is aware of the same "truths" that guide my faith.

Don't get me wrong- I actually think the probability of intelligent life elsewhere in the Universe is pretty good. I was familiar with the Drake equation before you posted it, though I didn't recognize it written out. I think Neil deGrasse Tyson may have talked about it. Regardless, the Universe is so huge and we just keep finding new planets in the Goldilocks zone. Seems likely that 14 billion years and a Universe big beyond comprehension would provide plenty of opportunity for life to evolve more than once. Again, though when the astrobiologists are finally ready to claim they've found intelligent life, they better offer some damn good data to back it up! Canals on Mars and crazy people talking about butt-probing aliens aren't gonna convince me. Ditto the Clinton murders. Curious to hear more about your theological ideas someday.
 

was thatguy

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Don't get me wrong- I actually think the probability of intelligent life elsewhere in the Universe is pretty good. I was familiar with the Drake equation before you posted it, though I didn't recognize it written out. I think Neil deGrasse Tyson may have talked about it. Regardless, the Universe is so huge and we just keep finding new planets in the Goldilocks zone. Seems likely that 14 billion years and a Universe big beyond comprehension would provide plenty of opportunity for life to evolve more than once. Again, though when the astrobiologists are finally ready to claim they've found intelligent life, they better offer some damn good data to back it up! Canals on Mars and crazy people talking about butt-probing aliens aren't gonna convince me. Ditto the Clinton murders. Curious to hear more about your theological ideas someday.

I think when all doubt is erased, and there is nothing left to question, it won't be by any astronomers doing, nor any gov official.

Of all the lies, that is the ONE consistent lie kept by every single admin since the 50's.
 

Grandpa mac

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I think when all doubt is erased, and there is nothing left to question, it won't be by any astronomers doing, nor any gov official.

Of all the lies, that is the ONE consistent lie kept by every single admin since the 50's.

What are you talking about? Roswell? Despite my general receptivity to the idea of alien life, alien life which has mastered interstellar travel is the part I most doubt. Einstein says you can't travel faster than light so that leaves you with what, jumping across wormholes? You might be able to send a particle through a wormhole but I just can't accept the idea of a complex living creature surviving that journey.
 

Old Texan

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What are you talking about? Roswell? Despite my general receptivity to the idea of alien life, alien life which has mastered interstellar travel is the part I most doubt. Einstein says you can't travel faster than light so that leaves you with what, jumping across wormholes? You might be able to send a particle through a wormhole but I just can't accept the idea of a complex living creature surviving that journey.
The way I look at it, is how technology has advanced in just the past 100 years here on earth. How far would technology be on another planet that had even a 100 year head start. Or one that had a 1,000 or 10,000......Man is a fool if he assumes he is alone in such a vast universe we've only seen parts of through telescopes.

Hell we can't even find Bigfoot in spite of so many sightings and a bit of physical evidence. Can all the sightings be hoaxes? A smart mind is an open mind.;)
 

Grandpa mac

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The way I look at it, is how technology has advanced in just the past 100 years here on earth. How far would technology be on another planet that had even a 100 year head start. Or one that had a 1,000 or 10,000......Man is a fool if he assumes he is alone in such a vast universe we've only seen parts of through telescopes.

Hell we can't even find Bigfoot in spite of so many sightings and a bit of physical evidence. Can all the sightings be hoaxes? A smart mind is an open mind.;)

Yep, I'd like to believe in Bigfoot too. Years ago near Muir Woods redwood grove I found a track in the mud. I immediately dismissed it as somebody with a fake track creating mischief, but for 14 years haven't been able to shake how realistic it was. Even Jane Goodall seems open to the idea and Sir Edmund Hillary claims he saw yeti in the Himalaya (granted he was probably hypoxia at the time). Just need one good hair plug with non-bear, unknown primate DNA and I'm convinced, but still need that proof.
 

Grandpa mac

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Old Texan

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Here's Rich Lowry, conservative editor of the National Review, on why individual Senators were no's on Obamacare repeal. This is clearly a guy from the Mike Lee wing of the party talking bluntly about the state of his party and worth reading if you can take a little self criticism.

http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2017/07/19/the-looming-republican-disgrace-215393?lo=ap_d1

Pretty accurate appraisal for the most part in my opinion. Pelosi got to much credit as she pushes her personal agenda more than leads towards the nations needs.To me the DNC and Dem structure got their wake up call and have been a mess since HRC lost, accept they still stay united as a party withing Congress and how they vote in a united manner. Doesn't really accomplish anything except to be anti-R. The Republican Congress is in turmoil because the non conservative Rinos are being exposed. And the lack of unity and planning for the future has been exposed. McConnell holding his position has troubled me as I don't see any leadership to unite the R's. His demeanor makes it an impossible task to a point.

Ryan is good leader only to a point. He has not lived up to his leadership potential and is in no way what DeLay and Gingrich were in the past.

Draining the swamp is no simple deal and will no doubt take time, time the current R majority are not taking seriously from what we've seen.
 

was thatguy

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What are you talking about? Roswell? Despite my general receptivity to the idea of alien life, alien life which has mastered interstellar travel is the part I most doubt. Einstein says you can't travel faster than light so that leaves you with what, jumping across wormholes? You might be able to send a particle through a wormhole but I just can't accept the idea of a complex living creature surviving that journey.

That time frame, yes.

There is no denying the rapid advances in computer, communication, and aviation technologies since that earmark.
Couple this with statements from Retired Military and Pentagon officials stating outright that recovered technology was and is dispersed to various private contractors for development (skunkworks, Motorola, etc) with the understanding of mutual benefit and the pattern of probability becomes crystal clear. The only thing more obvious is the blanket deception.

I was in Alaska (1986, I think) when the JAL cargo plane made its emergency landing at Anchorage International after being shadowed by 3 UFO's over the pole...radar confirmed, BTW.
The big joke of the week wasn't the incident, it was the denial issued about 24 hours after the pilots were interviewed locally.
I also saw the famous light show over Cook Inlet, along with literally thousands of other people.
It was on the front page of the newspaper the next day.

Doubters want everything explained and proven to them. I am not equipped to do that, and I don't know if any one person can. I have no answer to your time travel dilemma, for instance. This is the biggest asset that the keepers of these secrets (although to me it's no secret at all) have in their pocket. It makes it possible to maintain the deception.

Half of our "governments" job is to keep us deceived. We do shit every single minute of every single day that us citizens have absolutely no clue is happening. We have operatives on the ground doing secret shit in virtually every country on earth. We have secret shit going on in Country right under our noses. Big time secret shit.
When I would get orders for my lowly job as a DOD civilian, about half of the scope was dedicated to the process of secure communication. And all we were doing was environmental assessments and remediation.

There is literally no announcement that our gov can make that would surprise me.
What does surprise me is that when high ranking, learned, educated people with decades of involvement finally come clean, they are dismissed in general as loons.
And the sheep laugh and cry conspiracy theory!
 

Old Texan

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That time frame, yes.

There is no denying the rapid advances in computer, communication, and aviation technologies since that earmark.
Couple this with statements from Retired Military and Pentagon officials stating outright that recovered technology was and is dispersed to various private contractors for development (skunkworks, Motorola, etc) with the understanding of mutual benefit and the pattern of probability becomes crystal clear. The only thing more obvious is the blanket deception.

I was in Alaska (1986, I think) when the JAL cargo plane made its emergency landing at Anchorage International after being shadowed by 3 UFO's over the pole...radar confirmed, BTW.
The big joke of the week wasn't the incident, it was the denial issued about 24 hours after the pilots were interviewed locally.
I also saw the famous light show over Cook Inlet, along with literally thousands of other people.
It was on the front page of the newspaper the next day.

Doubters want everything explained and proven to them. I am not equipped to do that, and I don't know if any one person can. I have no answer to your time travel dilemma, for instance. This is the biggest asset that the keepers of these secrets (although to me it's no secret at all) have in their pocket. It makes it possible to maintain the deception.

Half of our "governments" job is to keep us deceived. We do shit every single minute of every single day that us citizens have absolutely no clue is happening. We have operatives on the ground doing secret shit in virtually every country on earth. We have secret shit going on in Country right under our noses. Big time secret shit.
When I would get orders for my lowly job as a DOD civilian, about half of the scope was dedicated to the process of secure communication. And all we were doing was environmental assessments and remediation.

There is literally no announcement that our gov can make that would surprise me.
What does surprise me is that when high ranking, learned, educated people with decades of involvement finally come clean, they are dismissed in general as loons.
And the sheep laugh and cry conspiracy theory!
The components of the nuclear bombs dropped on Japan were built if varied locations and their relationship to the end product unknown to the workers. The two most powerful weapons actually used in the history of the world, were built in large part by folks that had no idea what their work would enable.

Hiding things is plain sight is what governments do, because they can.

We had a local guy that ran a successful industrial mechanic operation. Great guy, but always felt he was the smarter bear type. He bought a plane at an airshow in Brownsville. He was a good pilot but not qualified to fly by instruments in bad weather. Against the advice of many, he took off from Brownsville to Houston in bad weather. He never made it home as it was figured out he got into zero visibility weather and went down over the Gulf.

His brother over a period of several years managed to get a TX Congressman to force our government to release the radar record which had recorded his flight and knew when and the coordinates of where he went down. Point being our government for claimed reasons of security hide so very much from the public. Why they could not let the family of a man know for sure he went down and dies is beyond belief......Makes them keeping secrets on things like UFOs completely plausible.:rolleyes
 

was thatguy

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The components of the nuclear bombs dropped on Japan were built if varied locations and their relationship to the end product unknown to the workers. The two most powerful weapons actually used in the history of the world, were built in large part by folks that had no idea what their work would enable.

Hiding things is plain sight is what governments do, because they can.

We had a local guy that ran a successful industrial mechanic operation. Great guy, but always felt he was the smarter bear type. He bought a plane at an airshow in Brownsville. He was a good pilot but not qualified to fly by instruments in bad weather. Against the advice of many, he took off from Brownsville to Houston in bad weather. He never made it home as it was figured out he got into zero visibility weather and went down over the Gulf.

His brother over a period of several years managed to get a TX Congressman to force our government to release the radar record which had recorded his flight and knew when and the coordinates of where he went down. Point being our government for claimed reasons of security hide so very much from the public. Why they could not let the family of a man know for sure he went down and dies is beyond belief......Makes them keeping secrets on things like UFOs completely plausible.:rolleyes

That is a typical example.
There is a literal parade of testimonials from high ranking individuals spanning decades that lay it out as fact and reality...yet the subject remains viewed in general as lunacy and make believe.

We have taped audio from space shuttle Discovery astronauts telling mission control specifically verbatim "the alien craft is still in view"...there are countless NASA video feeds showing personnel viewing space born UFO's during EVA. Usually briefly and then they view is changed or the astronaut will actually block the view with their hand or equipment.

Like the Clintons, the deception is so rooted that it is almost humorous, and requires zero maintenance to perpetuate.
Every single airline, military, space program, etc has a policy in place that outlines protocols for contact or viewing of UFO's.
NASA has placed a message in various types of code and binary on every single rover or space camera/ telescope mission into our galaxy.
Yet in general they are perceived as unicorns by the ocean of limited minds.
It's bizarre to me.
 

Old Texan

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That is a typical example.
There is a literal parade of testimonials from high ranking individuals spanning decades that lay it out as fact and reality...yet the subject remains viewed in general as lunacy and make believe.

We have taped audio from space shuttle Discovery astronauts telling mission control specifically verbatim "the alien craft is still in view"...there are countless NASA video feeds showing personnel viewing space born UFO's during EVA. Usually briefly and then they view is changed or the astronaut will actually block the view with their hand or equipment.

Like the Clintons, the deception is so rooted that it is almost humorous, and requires zero maintenance to perpetuate.
Every single airline, military, space program, etc has a policy in place that outlines protocols for contact or viewing of UFO's.
NASA has placed a message in various types of code and binary on every single rover or space camera/ telescope mission into our galaxy.
Yet in general they are perceived as unicorns by the ocean of limited minds.
It's bizarre to me.

The old public can't handle the truth scenario maybe?:yikes

I watched a series on CW a while back of an attack on the earth by aliens who had come here 60 years ago. The lead government bureaucrat who met them the first time, was still around and in charge the second time 60 years hence. It came out he'd cut a deal on mankind's behalf with the highly developed aliens not to do certain shit they felt threatened other worlds in the universe. Fiction mimics reality so who the hell knows.:skull

I've more than once heard scientists warn not to send anonymous message into space fearing it could attack the Borg or some alien bad guys. I've always enjoyed science fiction and the Star Trek shows as it all is possible....It's great entertainment and fun to imagine if nothing else.
 

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[video=youtube_https;53uVisEj_Hw]https://youtu.be/53uVisEj_Hw[/video]

[video=youtube_https;LS-h6ok6LcA]https://youtu.be/LS-h6ok6LcA[/video]
 

SBMech

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[video=youtube_https;53uVisEj_Hw]https://youtu.be/53uVisEj_Hw[/video]

[video=youtube_https;LS-h6ok6LcA]https://youtu.be/LS-h6ok6LcA[/video]


That along with Awesemo4000 has to be the best episode ever! :thumbsup
 

Grandpa mac

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That time frame, yes.

There is no denying the rapid advances in computer, communication, and aviation technologies since that earmark.
Couple this with statements from Retired Military and Pentagon officials stating outright that recovered technology was and is dispersed to various private contractors for development (skunkworks, Motorola, etc) with the understanding of mutual benefit and the pattern of probability becomes crystal clear. The only thing more obvious is the blanket deception.

I was in Alaska (1986, I think) when the JAL cargo plane made its emergency landing at Anchorage International after being shadowed by 3 UFO's over the pole...radar confirmed, BTW.
The big joke of the week wasn't the incident, it was the denial issued about 24 hours after the pilots were interviewed locally.
I also saw the famous light show over Cook Inlet, along with literally thousands of other people.
It was on the front page of the newspaper the next day.

Doubters want everything explained and proven to them. I am not equipped to do that, and I don't know if any one person can. I have no answer to your time travel dilemma, for instance. This is the biggest asset that the keepers of these secrets (although to me it's no secret at all) have in their pocket. It makes it possible to maintain the deception.

Half of our "governments" job is to keep us deceived. We do shit every single minute of every single day that us citizens have absolutely no clue is happening. We have operatives on the ground doing secret shit in virtually every country on earth. We have secret shit going on in Country right under our noses. Big time secret shit.
When I would get orders for my lowly job as a DOD civilian, about half of the scope was dedicated to the process of secure communication. And all we were doing was environmental assessments and remediation.

There is literally no announcement that our gov can make that would surprise me.
What does surprise me is that when high ranking, learned, educated people with decades of involvement finally come clean, they are dismissed in general as loons.
And the sheep laugh and cry conspiracy theory!

Honest and interesting- thanks. I'll try to Google the Cook Inlet story. I once had a conversation with a girl about God. Her reason for believing was that she had been sick with a fatal diagnosis. She and her family prayed and she recovered. It didn't convince me, but I totally understood why she found it convincing. First hand experience is like that.
 

was thatguy

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Honest and interesting- thanks. I'll try to Google the Cook Inlet story. I once had a conversation with a girl about God. Her reason for believing was that she had been sick with a fatal diagnosis. She and her family prayed and she recovered. It didn't convince me, but I totally understood why she found it convincing. First hand experience is like that.

The light show was cool to watch.

But the JAL flight was probably more significant. They had eyes on actual craft.
 
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