Is ultra still in business?

I have been waiting nearly 4 years for on an ultra 23 shadow deck. I have been given every excuse in the book by Rusty as to why. Now he is no longer taking my calls or returning messages and the main line is no longer being answered. Are they still in business?

[emoji897]

I don't think this thread will get much play down here.
You should post it in the lounge.:thumbsup

gmouf said:

I have been waiting nearly 4 years for on an ultra 23 shadow deck. I have been given every excuse in the book by Rusty as to why. Now he is no longer taking my calls or returning messages and the main line is no longer being answered. Are they still in business?

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If that is the kind of service you are getting already, why would you want to give them your money?

ductape1000 said:

If that is the kind of service you are getting already, why would you want to give them your money?

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Probably already paid for it....

NicPaus said:

Probably already paid for it....

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Well, that would suck. [emoji37]

I stopped by there twice this year just looking at stuff. The place seems more like a Chopshop then a manufacturer. They were working on a brand new boat and taking parts off a used boat and had cans of random screws and such. They guy was trying to show me the Boats and I climbed up on the one it was hilarious how they had mix matched screws and gauges etc on the one boat rusted cable ends it was a shit show for sure. Definitely not the John West game going on there.

Best was the red tag on the front door from local fire department it said something to the means that the office was not to be habitable

bummer to hear. I thought RD did an article about them getting a "showroom" of sorts by the bridge. Hopefully they are not on the outs

ductape1000 said:

Well, that would suck. [emoji37]

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I feel for them. I went through similar with my new Ultra years ago. Makes you wonder if Rustys last name is VanBeek.

As everyone knows, I have been a supporter of Ultra for many years. However, something seems off lately and while I need a few thing fixed this off season (gel repair, paint rub-rail update, etc), I am not feeling comfortable taking the boat to Rusty. I have texted with Rusty a few times and he says everything is OK, but my gut says he is having issues and not keeping the customer service levels I expect and received when JW built my boat.
Hell last year, Rusty did a rear and front cap for me, and everything was fine and the shop was busy, but last week I drove by and things do not feel right.

lavish62 said:

[emoji897]

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Would love to see more photos yours now that you have it after all this time :thumbsup

hallett21 said:

bummer to hear. I thought RD did an article about them getting a "showroom" of sorts by the bridge. Hopefully they are not on the outs

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I think sometimes Dave just really sees the best side of some people. (Not a bad thing at all) kind of like the beginning of the ocm deal.

BHC Vic said:

I think sometimes Dave just really sees the best side of some people. (Not a bad thing at all) kind of like the beginning of the ocm deal.

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This is different IMO. Rusty is really a good guy, just bad at communicating. OCM was bad guy and business IMO.

Thanks for the responses. It's mostly paid for and also mostly complete but now Rusty has gone silent. I'm in Florida so this has been extra difficult. Obviously I should have done more homework before deciding to do business with ultra.

gmouf said:

Thanks for the responses. It's mostly paid for and also mostly complete but now Rusty has gone silent. I'm in Florida so this has been extra difficult. Obviously I should have done more homework before deciding to do business with ultra.

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Damn, that sucks. Hopefully with so many full-time inmates in Havasu, someone can help you get eyes on your situation.

gmouf said:

Thanks for the responses. It's mostly paid for and also mostly complete but now Rusty has gone silent. I'm in Florida so this has been extra difficult. Obviously I should have done more homework before deciding to do business with ultra.

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Which one is it? Do you have any photos? While I am not in Havasu often, I think a PM to RiverDave asking for his help, might get you some data. If I know which boat it is, I can send Rusty a text asking WTF is going on. Last time I called the shop, the main line went to the fax and Rusty had no idea how to fix it and was waiting on the phone company to resolve, since the lines got crossed at the box.

Please allow me to offer notes from my own days of "small boat building", back in California .

First, the boat business has it's "ups and downs" of seasons and years , some customers are GREAT to work with, some not so much .

Not all boat business owners are like what we saw at OCM, most are people who love boats and boating, and sometimes "hit a sandbar" while serving their customers . 'Shit happens" .

Often the small shop owner will pay the rent and or employees, before he buys more materials for a new build or large repair . He NEEDS the building (utilities) and the workers, to complete the work, so they are the last to feel the pain of a "slow business cycle", even though the owner could be hounded by a "dry period" .

IF your project is more than 90 days past due, or behind build progress by that timeline, you should connect with a local "friend" and have them relay "photos, progress reports, and builder comments" .

I would not start attacking anyone without good cause, this company's owner may have; family, health, or other unknown problems, outside of his boat business .

When my mom was dying of cancer, the wife and I did "tag team hospice" for her, for months . Often customers would "demand to speak with me", but I was unavailable at the time .

Does any of this "dismiss" the fact that any of us could have $100K invested here, not at all .

Due diligence, faith in God, and a friend who can go to the shop and report, are your friends .

I can tell you that back in the late 1980's I was ordering "solid drive line covers" from a shop who was/is well known . I ordered 4 different sets for a race boat, and 3 boats I was rigging for Howard Brown . I had used him in the past .

The vendor "lied" every time I called (next week, check's in the mail ,bla bla bla) and strung me along for more than 60 days (lucky I ordered way ahead). He NEVER produced one of the parts I ordered, and I had to "work all night, a number of nights" to build my own drive line covers . One more in "the learning curve" for me .

I still don't know what his problem was, but the LIES set me straight on his business practices .

I never spoke with him or his shop again, and he is still in business ...........

Sometimes HONEST PEOPLE STRUGGLE, get the truth, and work with them .

If I can help you in any manner, please PM me .

As a business owner it always amazes me how some people can be in business

ONE-A-DAY said:

As a business owner it always amazes me how some people can be in business

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I agree...

The writing is on the wall here. Say what you want and they could be a great guy but there is no excuse for a 1-2-3-4 year boat build.

It means $$$ is being mismanaged and used inappropriately.

Sucks[emoji17]

AzGeo said:

..
Sometimes HONEST PEOPLE STRUGGLE, get the truth, and work with them .
.

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Struggling or not, there's no excuse for not communicating with your customer especially one who has money tied up with you.

Thank you for all the great feedback. I'm feeling a little lost with this. It's my first custom boat. I saw this color scheme on a 26 and loved it.

ONE-A-DAY said:

As a business owner it always amazes me how some people can be in business

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Probably because you have never had to write a check out of your own business money accounts to buy a $30K+ Mercruiser motor package, on just a "purchase contract", while trying to rely on "other sketchy boat vendors", to deliver what you ordered, all ON TIME .

Building a custom product from raw materials and trying to work with all the variables in this business cannot be compared to "sales or service only business" . This is not his hobby, it's his life .

Cole Trickle said:

I agree...

The writing is on the wall here. Say what you want and they could be a great guy but there is no excuse for a 1-2-3-4 year boat build.

It means $$$ is being mismanaged and used inappropriately.

Sucks[emoji17]

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IF this new boat build is actually YEARS OLD, then by all means, GO FOR BLOOD, there is no excuse for that kind of timeline .

As I stated in my other post "if your project is more than 90 days overdue", then the customer should have already taken steps for remedy . I had F*^#ing customers hounding me at 60 days on new V-drives . (yet they were warned before the sale)

No matter what you "business experts say", the custom boat building business really requires (tens of thousands to millions) to keep it going thru the slow times, and "sales, service, or paper shuffling jobs", cannot be compared to the extreme difficulties of building new powerboats on the west coast .

IF you only want to buy from large, well funded boat companies, stay the course . But if you want to promote "new blood and new ideas" then CHOOSE WISELY, while trying to work with the smaller, less funded builders .

I do not know much about Ultra Boats company, I do know about being in the boat building business, and I also have common business sense .

If I can help, please PM me .

AzGeo said:

Probably because you have never had to write a check out of your own business money accounts to buy a $30K+ Mercruiser motor package, on just a "purchase contract", while trying to rely on "other sketchy boat vendors", to deliver what you ordered, all ON TIME .

Building a custom product from raw materials and trying to work with all the variables in this business cannot be compared to "sales or service only business" . This is not his hobby, it's his life .





IF this new boat build is actually YEARS OLD, then by all means, GO FOR BLOOD, there is no excuse for that kind of timeline .

As I stated in my other post "if your project is more than 90 days overdue", then the customer should have already taken steps for remedy . I had F*^#ing customers hounding me at 60 days on new V-drives . (yet they were warned before the sale)

No matter what you "business experts say", the custom boat building business really requires (tens of thousands to millions) to keep it going thru the slow times, and "sales, service, or paper shuffling jobs", cannot be compared to the extreme difficulties of building new powerboats on the west coast .

IF you only want to buy from large, well funded boat companies, stay the course . But if you want to promote "new blood and new ideas" then CHOOSE WISELY, while trying to work with the smaller, less funded builders .

I do not know much about Ultra Boats company, I do know about being in the boat building business, and I also have common business sense .

If I can help, please PM me .

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This whole statement is BS. Business is Business plain and simple. You either have business sense and operate ethically or you don't. Regardless of the product, it's basic. Produce an item for a fee, collect fee and produce said item.

Collecting for said item and then not producing it is wrong Plain and simple. I could care less what improper management of time, money, vendors led to the situation. It can all be led back to poor management. The lack of communication is just a further problem.

Riverbound said:

This whole statement is BS. Business is Business plain and simple. You either have business sense and operate ethically or you don't. Regardless of the product, it's basic. Produce an item for a fee, collect fee and produce said item.

Collecting for said item and then not producing it is wrong Plain and simple. I could care less what improper management of time, money, vendors led to the situation. It can all be led back to poor management. The lack of communication is just a further problem.

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You can't compare businesses across the board like that.

You are an A/C guy right?

You go to home depot or your wholesale warehouse and get whatever you need, and they have several on hand, for any build you do.

Building vehicles and boats, motorcycles etc at a custom level requires you to outsource many things, until you have tried to work with 20 different vendors on a deadline that has run far out in left field, don't be so quick to condemn.

But yes, in the end, in this case from what I have seen posted, it looks like something has gone terribly wrong, any build should not go longer than a year IMO unless you were told the actual time line that was longer.

Ultimately, in any business where you sell, repair or service anything, communication is essential. :thumbup:

SBMech said:

You can't compare businesses across the board like that.

You are an A/C guy right?

You go to home depot or your wholesale warehouse and get whatever you need, and they have several on hand, for any build you do.

Building vehicles and boats, motorcycles etc at a custom level requires you to outsource many things, until you have tried to work with 20 different vendors on a deadline that has run far out in left field, don't be so quick to condemn.

But yes, in the end, in this case from what I have seen posted, it looks like something has gone terribly wrong, any build should not go longer than a year IMO unless you were told the actual time line that was longer.

Ultimately, in any business where you sell, repair or service anything, communication is essential. :thumbup:

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I had a life before I was an AC guy.

I have Built countless one off custom vehicles. Never once did I not produce something I was paid for, or did I take money for something I couldn't produce. I understand timelines being pushed back and delays in the world of custom.

So no it's not different.....customer paid, business isn't delivering. If "vendors" can't produce business needs to find new vendors.

Keep in mind I Just completely rebuilt a boat dealing with probably the same vendors, trust me if you're paying for a part you will get it in a timely manner. [emoji6]The only part of my entire boat rebuild that was an issue getting done was in regards to marine industry "labor" in those cases I had to be very diligent in making sure my money wasn't being used to complete someone else's project. I kept my payments set up in a manner in which if work wasn't happening money wasn't coming their way. Let's just say it's common in the marine industry for these guys to rob Peter to pay Paul. They use one customer's money to finish the guy before them and It's all good until it's not.

I can think of numerous other custom boat builders that are producing boats....so it's not a "vendor" issue. [emoji6]

This is a typical west coast "custom" boat here using catalog parts.......not some one off custom with parts that dont exist or have to be fabricated by hand.

AzGeo said:

Probably because you have never had to write a check out of your own business money accounts to buy a $30K+ Mercruiser motor package, on just a "purchase contract", while trying to rely on "other sketchy boat vendors", to deliver what you ordered, all ON TIME .

Building a custom product from raw materials and trying to work with all the variables in this business cannot be compared to "sales or service only business" . This is not his hobby, it's his life .





IF this new boat build is actually YEARS OLD, then by all means, GO FOR BLOOD, there is no excuse for that kind of timeline .

As I stated in my other post "if your project is more than 90 days overdue", then the customer should have already taken steps for remedy . I had F*^#ing customers hounding me at 60 days on new V-drives . (yet they were warned before the sale)

No matter what you "business experts say", the custom boat building business really requires (tens of thousands to millions) to keep it going thru the slow times, and "sales, service, or paper shuffling jobs", cannot be compared to the extreme difficulties of building new powerboats on the west coast .

IF you only want to buy from large, well funded boat companies, stay the course . But if you want to promote "new blood and new ideas" then CHOOSE WISELY, while trying to work with the smaller, less funded builders .

I do not know much about Ultra Boats company, I do know about being in the boat building business, and I also have common business sense .

If I can help, please PM me .

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It's a feeding frenzy right now we aren't talking about a down turn in the boating industry. If you aren't making money right now you are in trouble when things go bad.

If you don't have the capital or credit to buy a merc engine package you have issues. A 50% down payment should handle that and you should be able to complete the boat in a timely fashion so you can get the balance due and pay the overhead and staff.

I have no idea what arrangements were made but the time line on a couple ultra boats seem a little wacky.

Tahiti needs to buy that 26 deck mold and build some bad ass boats for a reasonable cost. Always wanted a 26 ultra deck.

Cole Trickle said:

It's a feeding frenzy right now we aren't talking about a down turn in the boating industry. If you aren't making money right now you are in trouble when things go bad.

If you don't have the capital or credit to buy a merc engine package you have issues. A 50% down payment should handle that and you should be able to complete the boat in a timely fashion so you can get the balance due and pay the overhead and staff.

I have no idea what arrangements were made but the time line on a couple ultra boats seem a little wacky.

Tahiti needs to buy that 26 deck mold and build some bad ass boats for a reasonable cost. Always wanted a 26 ultra deck.

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When a new boat customer gets his own loan and it's "10% down", then you DO HAVE TO DIG DEEP INTO YOUR OWN BACK POCKET to buy another merc or other power package .

As I stated in my posts, I do not know the owner or the brand/company, but if you think a "small boat building company" can stay in business BORROWING MONEY to buy power packages and materials, you have not been in a successful or honest boat business .

VERY FEW financed boats have anywhere near a 50% down payment, so I suggest that you keep the blood off your sword for a little while longer .

"THE CAPITOL AND THE CREDIT" ARE EXACTLY what we are talking about here !

The "smaller builders" don't have UNLIMITED FINANCING, but often become strained when the boating season slows down .

Once again, I do not know about ULTRA, but unless there are unusual events or non-events taking place, this is all between the buyer and the builder .

For "outsiders" to make unqualified comments, is normal, everyone who owns a boat "knows it all", but I disagree .

If "it's a feeding frenzy", how come there are so many "last year's boats and pontoons" on the lots in Havasu ?

Am I missing something about MEGA boat sales you speak of, or am I just the last one to throw a stone at another boat company ?

AzGeo said:

Probably because you have never had to write a check out of your own business money accounts to buy a $30K+ Mercruiser motor package, on just a "purchase contract", while trying to rely on "other sketchy boat vendors", to deliver what you ordered, all ON TIME .

Building a custom product from raw materials and trying to work with all the variables in this business cannot be compared to "sales or service only business" . This is not his hobby, it's his life .





IF this new boat build is actually YEARS OLD, then by all means, GO FOR BLOOD, there is no excuse for that kind of timeline .

As I stated in my other post "if your project is more than 90 days overdue", then the customer should have already taken steps for remedy . I had F*^#ing customers hounding me at 60 days on new V-drives . (yet they were warned before the sale)

No matter what you "business experts say", the custom boat building business really requires (tens of thousands to millions) to keep it going thru the slow times, and "sales, service, or paper shuffling jobs", cannot be compared to the extreme difficulties of building new powerboats on the west coast .

IF you only want to buy from large, well funded boat companies, stay the course . But if you want to promote "new blood and new ideas" then CHOOSE WISELY, while trying to work with the smaller, less funded builders .

I do not know much about Ultra Boats company, I do know about being in the boat building business, and I also have common business sense .

If I can help, please PM me .

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Yup your right have not had to that, I must be an idiot and just got lucky all these years because I just decided to return calls to my customers and spend $29 a month extra to have a dedicated fax line.

AzGeo said:

When a new boat customer gets his own loan and it's "10% down", then you DO HAVE TO DIG DEEP INTO YOUR OWN BACK POCKET to buy another merc or other power package .

As I stated in my posts, I do not know the owner or the brand/company, but if you think a "small boat building company" can stay in business BORROWING MONEY to buy power packages and materials, you have not been in a successful or honest boat business .

VERY FEW financed boats have anywhere near a 50% down payment, so I suggest that you keep the blood off your sword for a little while longer .

"THE CAPITOL AND THE CREDIT" ARE EXACTLY what we are talking about here !

The "smaller builders" don't have UNLIMITED FINANCING, but often become strained when the boating season slows down .

Once again, I do not know about ULTRA, but unless there are unusual events or non-events taking place, this is all between the buyer and the builder .

For "outsiders" to make unqualified comments, is normal, everyone who owns a boat "knows it all", but I disagree .

If "it's a feeding frenzy", how come there are so many "last year's boats and pontoons" on the lots in Havasu ?

Am I missing something about MEGA boat sales you speak of, or am I just the last one to throw a stone at another boat company ?

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Wtf? I don't know about you, but when I've financed something the finance company pays the vendor 100% and then assumes the responsibility of collecting the repayment and by doing so collects the interest for their profit. So, unless the boat manufacturers are doing their own in house financing (HIGHLY unlikely with the size of most boat manufacturers), your example of 10% down doesn't really seem to float. Kinda like the OP's incomplete Ultra.

So when you are purchasing a brand new boat, what you should do after you get yourself a boat loan, is ask the boat manufacturers bank account information, financials, so you can do your due diligence that he can afford to buy all the parts for your boat? Or ask if he's operating as a "small builder or a big builder?

My friend just put an order in for a 2018 Malibu 25 lsv. Mid September. He walked into Tillys marine in norco. They went over the complete boat options, upgrades and he left with giving them 5k deposit and the rest due on delivery. 145k otd.

A week ago, he received a call that they have determined a "spray date" which will be oct 22nd. Delivery date would be 2nd week of November.

He was also offered a round trip flight to loudon Tennessee to see a factory tour of the manufacturing facility as well his boat being built. Since the purchase. He has been receiving weekly emails, of images of his boat, every step of the way.

To the OP. I would be calling or messaging everyone and anyone that knows the owner of said company and have them drive to his facility immediately for answers. If you think that's a big burden, it's time to lawyer up. I don't care if the boat is 20k or 300k. It's the principal.

If you can't afford to pay your bills, build boats on a timely matter, it is your due diligence to inform all of your clients your troubles and deal with the problem.

ONE-A-DAY said:

Yup your right have not had to that, I must be an idiot and just got lucky all these years because I just decided to return calls to my customers and spend $29 a month extra to have a dedicated fax line.

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Well, it's you calling you by that term . I am by no means DEFENDING anyone, but some here think "building boats from scratch" is just like ANY JOB . All I'm saying is that "I know that it's NOT like any other business", no matter what many "experts here" say .

Flying_Lavey said:

Wtf? I don't know about you, but when I've financed something the finance company pays the vendor 100% and then assumes the responsibility of collecting the repayment and by doing so collects the interest for their profit. So, unless the boat manufacturers are doing their own in house financing (HIGHLY unlikely with the size of most boat manufacturers), your example of 10% down doesn't really seem to float. Kinda like the OP's incomplete Ultra.

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You don't know about me and you don't even know about "boat loan contracts" and what you are saying here .

NO BANK or LENDING COMPANY will pay the seller for any boat that is NOT 100% COMPLETED and DELIVERED !!! The boat builder builds a "to customer spec custom boat" on "the deposit" and HIS OWN MONEY . GOT IT ?

The lender's own contracts say that they will not pay for "unfinished products, delivered after payment" . The seller/builder is legally bound to deliver and register the boat (and or) trailer BEFORE the lender will forward payment .

In fact my example of "10% down" is typical for most custom ordered boats over $100K . I know this because I've been there .

If the boat in question has been "dragging on" for over a year (or more), I'll refer you back to one of my previous posts that stated "90 days" and action should be taken .

Most small custom builders do not go into "loans", or "bank flooring", and that is another area where some medium sized builders have gotten hung up in the past . Do you remember what happened to Magic/Sleek a few years ago ?

Just because you guys don't know how it all REALLY works, and I've done it for 45+ years, please don't kill the messenger (me) .

As I stated before, I'll be glad to help out if I can, just PM me .

Doesn?t sound right. John D and John West and even Barry took design of my boat in the middle of June and was 90% done by Labor Day weekend. They let me take it out Labor Day Weekend and use it for a couple months with them knowing a few odds and ends needed to be done which I was fine with, cosmetic stuff. Took it back to them in December and they finished the odds and ends and stored it in their showroom until April for FREE until I was ready to pick it up to use for desert storm. Btw detailed and ready to go. Class act.. Be cautious who you use in Havasu. I would try to recoup your losses and take it to a reputable shop to get things done... Barrett, Ron?s, Arko, Nordic etc for various rigging gel interior etc.

Flying_Lavey said:

Wtf? I don't know about you, but when I've financed something the finance company pays the vendor 100% and then assumes the responsibility of collecting the repayment and by doing so collects the interest for their profit. So, unless the boat manufacturers are doing their own in house financing (HIGHLY unlikely with the size of most boat manufacturers), your example of 10% down doesn't really seem to float. Kinda like the OP's incomplete Ultra.

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Actually. Our grouchy friend is correct.
I hear builders bitch about it often.
10% down, builder is funded the 90 when its done.
Sounds screwed because it is.

Like he said, come up with Mercury bucks on a 10% deposit when the drive train is usually 25-30% of the build cost minimum.
Now, what happens when you have 2 or three in build at the same time? Or more?

Gelcoater said:

Actually. Our grouchy friend is correct.
I hear builders bitch about it often.
10% down, builder is funded the 90 when its done.
Sounds screwed because it is.

Like he said, come up with Mercury bucks on a 10% deposit when the drive train is usually 25-30% of the build cost minimum.
Now, what happens when you have 2 or three in build at the same time? Or more?

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Who's grouchy ? I never said "go f*&^ yourselves", because they think they know, but don't really know all the BS it takes to build TRUE custom boats .

Trailers, interiors, hell I remember when shops were using "Bravo III's, because they could not get Bravo I's" .

Few small builders have control over "all phases and vendors" when they take an order . If they did have control over all of it, they would already be a large brand name company, building a lot of boats every month .

Once again I make no excuses for anyone, but I'm willing to help if I can .

AzGeo said:

Who's grouchy ? I never said "go f*&^ yourselves", because they think they know, but don't really know all the BS it takes to build TRUE custom boats .

Trailers, interiors, hell I remember when shops were using "Bravo III's, because they could not get Bravo I's" .

Few small builders have control over "all phases and vendors" when they take an order . If they did have control over all of it, they would already be a large brand name company, building a lot of boats every month .

Once again I make no excuses for anyone, but I'm willing to help if I can .

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You're certainly not grouchy at all.

I think you nailed it when you said the west coast scene isn't like any other business.
I'm sure some of these guys know buisness, some probably pretty focken well.

Building from a barrel is different than most.

Gelcoater said:

Actually. Our grouchy friend is correct.
I hear builders bitch about it often.
10% down, builder is funded the 90 when its done.
Sounds screwed because it is.

Like he said, come up with Mercury bucks on a 10% deposit when the drive train is usually 25-30% of the build cost minimum.
Now, what happens when you have 2 or three in build at the same time? Or more?

Click to expand...

short and to the point...well said

Gelcoater said:

You're certainly not grouchy at all.

I think you nailed it when you said the west coast scene isn't like any other business.
I'm sure some of these guys know buisness, some probably pretty focken well.

Building from a barrel is different than most.

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He may be a little grouchy at times but when it comes to the boat industry he knows his stuff. He knew my problems by just looking at pictures. I wish I could download all that knowledge 😊

Just left there. Picked up a mold and trailer I had in Rustys' yard. Just posting pictures, im not Ultra.

They are building boats. Here is what I saw in production new shit only I took pics of.
28 deck barracuda x 2 close to finishing
2 x 28 magic deckboats in glass production for preston
1 x cuda deck bare hull in finish wet sand buff
23 deck waiting on interior? was rigged with power on trailer

Rusty told me 26 deck and 2 x 344 cats are on the production schedule.
Pics




Me Rolling home

Thank so much for the update. It's reassuring to know that the doors are still open, at least for now. Since I started this thread I heard another customer in a similar position to mine recently had his incomplete ultra taken elsewhere for completion. Hopefully I will hear something from Rusty soon or I will be forced to go this route as well.

Didn't realize he had the Baracuda mold...I really like that one. I'm still kicking myself for not buying the orange one last year but I know where it ended it up. But I've heard far too many stories like this one about Ultra to consider buying there....

gmouf said:

Thank so much for the update. It's reassuring to know that the doors are still open, at least for now. Since I started this thread I heard another customer in a similar position to mine recently had his incomplete ultra taken elsewhere for completion. Hopefully I will hear something from Rusty soon or I will be forced to go this route as well.

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Sent you a PM- Shoot me a phone call - Todd

4 years is too long to wait for anything. That said there is no harder industry than the boat industry. The big companies are backed by other big companies. I think someone mentioned Malibu earlier. They are owned by Black Canyon Capital a giant hedge fund who also own Virgin America and many other companies. Bayliner, Sea Ray, Boston Whaler, Crestliner and others are all owned by Brunswick. Brunswick builds the majority of their boats in a plant in Mexico. Hatteras and Cabo boats formerly owned by Brunswick are now owned by Versa Capital another giant hedge fund with holdings in a dozen industries.

It is unfair to compare any of these boat builders to small or even medium sized boat builders. A successful boat builder is one that has a couple of builds going at different levels of completion as the delivery payment from one boat is usually going to pay for the rigging on the next. Keeping you staff paid and the lights on can be especially hard when things are bad. I always said that if I hit the lottery I would quit my job and start building boats not because I thought I could make money doing it but because I would be happier in a shop covered in fiberglass particles and gel coat than I could ever be sitting behind a desk. The reality is that without winning the lottery I could never afford to start making boats again. Especially not in CA. Hell I would do it just for the pride that I would feel watching one of my hulls spank one from one of the big boys out on the water but I have a family to feed and a mortgage to pay. One day...

That's a hard wait . It would be hard to wait the 3-4 month for a build being so excited.
So ultra is making boats with the magic deck molds?

e911 said:

That's a hard wait . It would be hard to wait the 3-4 month for a build being so excited.
So ultra is making boats with the magic deck molds?

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Im not 100% sure, its only what I see when I picked up molds out there. There is a 30 Magic Cat bare hull and 2 x 28 decks in production. The bank was going to build them and now that Preston @ Horizon owns the the tooling he will probably have Magic decks back into production. Ultra lake havasu is the production.

The west coast scene isn't like other business. Boy is that an understatement. :rolleyes

Promises, promises, promises and unkept time lines. :rolleyes

I learned a lot on this go around, enough not to do it again. And who to do business with and who not to :cool

Gelcoater said:

You're certainly not grouchy at all.

I think you nailed it when you said the west coast scene isn't like any other business.
I'm sure some of these guys know buisness, some probably pretty focken well.

Building from a barrel is different than most.

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Lets get real here. Vendors and suppliers are a pain in the ass for everyone, not just the boating industry. One must find a way.

Got trouble financing? Well get in line.

Not saying its not challenging building one of these things but come on, really!?! Delays should be measured in days and weeks, not months or years.

Like was said already it requires good business sense, organization and clear communication to run a business effectively. Sometimes, some or all of those traits are missing.

And whats with bullshitting the customer that seems to be so prevalent with west coast builders? I mean as a customer I just let them bullshit me a little and pretend not to call them on it. Usually no harm or foul in a little white lie. (seems counter productive to fight over if there is no actual conflict)

I think its an unwritten rule. No, a courtesy extended to the builder. As a customer we pretend NOT to notice that we are being bullshitted as long as things progress as promised. (which is not the same as saying the customer believed all the builder's bullshit but actually didn't)

AzGeo said:

Probably because you have never had to write a check out of your own business money accounts to buy a $30K+ Mercruiser motor package, on just a "purchase contract", while trying to rely on "other sketchy boat vendors", to deliver what you ordered, all ON TIME .

Building a custom product from raw materials and trying to work with all the variables in this business cannot be compared to "sales or service only business" . This is not his hobby, it's his life .





IF this new boat build is actually YEARS OLD, then by all means, GO FOR BLOOD, there is no excuse for that kind of timeline .

As I stated in my other post "if your project is more than 90 days overdue", then the customer should have already taken steps for remedy . I had F*^#ing customers hounding me at 60 days on new V-drives . (yet they were warned before the sale)

No matter what you "business experts say", the custom boat building business really requires (tens of thousands to millions) to keep it going thru the slow times, and "sales, service, or paper shuffling jobs", cannot be compared to the extreme difficulties of building new powerboats on the west coast .

IF you only want to buy from large, well funded boat companies, stay the course . But if you want to promote "new blood and new ideas" then CHOOSE WISELY, while trying to work with the smaller, less funded builders .

I do not know much about Ultra Boats company, I do know about being in the boat building business, and I also have common business sense .

If I can help, please PM me .

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This is all BS!!! I couldn't stomach reading past the 2nd page!! 4 years! Really??? I don't give a F**K who it is,,, somebody that didn't know what they were doing could build a CUSTOM boat alone in less time. This is very simply SHITTY BUSINESS and sucks for the customer. Unfortunately, it's a tough learning curve but this thread at least informs people of the business practice. :thumbsdown:thumbsdown:thumbsdown:thumbsdown:thumbsdown

AzGeo said:

If "it's a feeding frenzy", how come there are so many "last year's boats and pontoons" on the lots in Havasu ?

Am I missing something about MEGA boat sales you speak of, or am I just the last one to throw a stone at another boat company ?

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Well it's a "feeding frenzy" alright; maybe just not in terms of some custom boats. And for pontoons, we quit carrying them (beautiful South Bay boats); they just didn't sell. Most of the pontoon buyers wanted a 19k Suntracker to beat on.

However nobody would bat an eye on a new wake boat. I was sold out of 2017 $170k+ Nautiques well before August and I have already moved numerous 2018s. Boats are selling.

I'm so surprised to hear this about Ultra as they have always had a stellar reputation. I have always loved their boats too! Good luck gmouf with your new boat, it looks great.

Riverbound said:

This whole statement is BS. Business is Business plain and simple. You either have business sense and operate ethically or you don't. Regardless of the product, it's basic. Produce an item for a fee, collect fee and produce said item.

Collecting for said item and then not producing it is wrong Plain and simple. I could care less what improper management of time, money, vendors led to the situation. It can all be led back to poor management. The lack of communication is just a further problem.

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Aren't you the guy who "pays others to build/rebuild boats for himself ?

I make no excuses for what has happened on this build, as I said before "90 days is my limit" and this whole thing is a mess .

BUT that does not change the way the west coast boat business has problems way beyond what a normal "retail or service business has" .

It is "unconscionable" to continue to accept "payments" while showing no progress on the product .

It is equally poor judgement/business sense, to keep paying "up front" with no actual proven progress .

But to say that my words are bullshit, from a person who has not been in the business, is quite an uneducated low blow .

But now seems like a good time for me to sit back and read what "the hands in their pockets experts" have to say about a business they themselves have not been in .

If it were as simple and easy as a service or retail business, everyone would be building custom boats ..............

AzGeo said:

Aren't you the guy who "pays others to build/rebuild boats for himself ?

I make no excuses for what has happened on this build, as I said before "90 days is my limit" and this whole thing is a mess .

BUT that does not change the way the west coast boat business has problems way beyond what a normal "retail or service business has" .

It is "unconscionable" to continue to accept "payments" while showing no progress on the product .

It is equally poor judgement/business sense, to keep paying "up front" with no actual proven progress .

But to say that my words are bullshit, from a person who has not been in the business, is quite an uneducated low blow .

But now seems like a good time for me to sit back and read what "the hands in their pockets experts" have to say about a business they themselves have not been in .

If it were as simple and easy as a service or retail business, everyone would be building custom boats ..............

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Yes. I pay people because I can go to work and make more than it costs me to have the work done (basic economics) plus those that do it every day are much more efficient at it then I am. My self worth is not wrapped up in whether I built my boat or not. It's much more impressive the number of employees that collect a check every week, all my vendors being paid, work lined up and not having to worry about scamming one person to complete someone else's project because I misappropriated the funds from one customer to another. [emoji6] if you believe any different than YOU sir are the uneducated one. [emoji107]

What thriving successful west coast boat building company do you run again??

When it comes to running a business successfully, you would be way off base calling me uneducated [emoji6] the basic concept of "business" doesn't change depending on the type of business. Customer pays you for something you provide said thing. This rule applies regardless of type of business. Just because the norm is to rob Peter to pay Paul....DOESN'T MAKE IT RIGHT!! Properly capitalize your business, don't run a Ponzi scheme using one person's money to make another person whole.

Let's take Nordic for example. Do you think they are collecting from one customer to finish another? Or do you think they are a properly capitalized business that runs like a "business" and not a hobby?