schiada crash

overpriced hallet · Sep 14, 2009

hey a friend just called and said someones blown schiada just made a hard right and crashed onto the beach in parker anyone hear who this was and if they are allright

Marko · Sep 14, 2009

Wasnt me, just got home.

Dave Pardo · Sep 14, 2009

wasnt me, i just got home as well hope every one is o.k.

RiverDave · Sep 14, 2009

I ran around a bit a little after noon.. It looked to me like most everyone had gone home. I did see that red blower motor 21 with the exhausts that turn up running around. As well an older gentlemen came down my canal in a blue/white/yellow colored blower motor 21. He didn't know about the regatta and had just shown up today. The boat was capped etc..

Anyone know what colors the boat was or any other details?

I hope everyone is ok.

. Let us know if you hear anything else.

RD

Dale21RT · Sep 14, 2009

It was'nt us, we're washed, waxed and in the garage! Thanks for the good time, hope no one crashed anything!!!!

FrznJim · Sep 14, 2009

It wasn't Gary H. or me, we spent the day leaking down and adjusting the valve lash on our motors, they're both good.

RiverDave · Sep 14, 2009

I talked to Boatcop about this earlier tonight, he said that he hadn't heard anything about it.. Which is a good thing. His guys have a standing order to call him it any major event happen on the strip. (fatalities etc..)

RD

Wheeler · Sep 14, 2009

RiverDave said:
I talked to Boatcop about this earlier tonight, he said that he hadn't heard anything about it.. Which is a good thing. His guys have a standing order to call him it any major event happen on the strip. (fatalities etc..)

RD

That's good to hear, Brad P and Ryan Partridge were racing by in two different Schiada's about the time of this post, I hope all are Ok.

Outnumbered · Sep 14, 2009

Hopefully it was just a beaching and they were able to push off and get home safe. Maybe a broken stearing cable or ? Seems odd that someone would just make a story like this up.

NASTYTOYSRACING01 · Sep 14, 2009

i did see 75 spectra v-drive screwing around in front of us as we were hanging on the beach around dam hide away got it air born and made a hard rite ,we thought he threw the passenger out but the pass ended up on the floor then he was headed for the shoreline all rocks but didnt go over he stoped screwing around after that ,cleaned the ddooodooo out of his pants

skinut · Sep 14, 2009

Larry's Gebhart 20 ' blown schiada go up river slowed down next to the beach and stop. Started back up out of the hole made a very hard right turn. You guys are wright, the stearing cable bolt came off. But, all on board are OK. He didn't hit the beach if this is the boat you are talking about. It could have been a very bad thing at high speeds.

rivergames · Sep 14, 2009

skinut said:
Larry's Gebhart 20 ' blown schiada go up river slowed down next to the beach and stop. Started back up out of the hole made a very hard right turn. You guys are wright, the stearing cable bolt came off. But, all on board are OK. He didn't hit the beach if this is the boat you are talking about. It could have been a very bad thing at high speeds.

Does Larry stay at Big Bend?

skinut · Sep 14, 2009

rivergames · Sep 14, 2009

skinut said:
Yes.

My buddy has a trailer there. I went to visit him a month or two ago and saw larry making a few laps around the river. Great looking boat! Glad no one got hurt and all is well. :thumbsup

RyanPartridge · Sep 14, 2009

Wheeler said:
That's good to hear, Brad P and Ryan Partridge were racing by in two different Schiada's about the time of this post, I hope all are Ok.

You saw that? Marty Harper forced me to take his 20RC vdrive for a spin and right after I was in Steve Harper's flatty.

My too favorite Schiadas. :thumbsup

Glad to hear everyone is alright!

racerden · Sep 14, 2009

skinut said:
Larry's Gebhart 20 ' blown schiada go up river slowed down next to the beach and stop. Started back up out of the hole made a very hard right turn. You guys are wright, the stearing cable bolt came off. But, all on board are OK. He didn't hit the beach if this is the boat you are talking about. It could have been a very bad thing at high speeds.

I believe LG has Calgo steering. Nuff said!
________
COOKING FORUM

Mondorally · Sep 14, 2009

racerden said:
I believe LG has Calgo steering. Nuff said!

As someone running an I/O but with dreams of joining the v-drive club at some point (in a 20' if I can find one!!)..... can you explain the above comment?

Thanks!

-Justin

Vector · Sep 14, 2009

rivergames said:
Does Larry stay at Big Bend?

TC built his motor also. I think you saw his boat at TCs.

Big Kahunaa · Sep 14, 2009

NASTYTOYSRACING01 said:
i did see 75 spectra v-drive screwing around in front of us as we were hanging on the beach around dam hide away got it air born and made a hard rite ,we thought he threw the passenger out but the pass ended up on the floor then he was headed for the shoreline all rocks but didnt go over he stoped screwing around after that ,cleaned the ddooodooo out of his pants

(this is 78cole)
:rotflmao: that was tom (21howardrc) driving gregs boat with gregs wife in it, gregs boat does some weird stuff during acceleration. I was in my hallett watching the show

74 HOWARD 21RC · Sep 15, 2009

NASTYTOYSRACING01 said:
i did see 75 spectra v-drive screwing around in front of us as we were hanging on the beach around dam hide away got it air born and made a hard rite ,we thought he threw the passenger out but the pass ended up on the floor then he was headed for the shoreline all rocks but didnt go over he stoped screwing around after that ,cleaned the ddooodooo out of his pants

All I got to say is E TICKET!

I thought I better nock it off before my wife kicked my ass:bash:
Gregs wife Edith was flying through the air and I thought I would catch her before she flew out.She landed face down in my lap.

.I hope Greg dont read this thread or I am in trouble.:moon:

78cole · Sep 15, 2009

74 HOWARD 21RC said:
All I got to say is E TICKET!
I thought I better nock it off before my wife kicked my ass:bash:
Gregs wife Edith was flying through the air and I thought I would catch her before she flew out.She landed face down in my lap..I hope Greg dont read this thread or I am in trouble.:moon:

Greg I wouldnt worry about it's Denis! she does take kick boxing(what was it you had to clean out of your pants?)

highlimit9000 · Sep 15, 2009

racerden said:
I believe LG has Calgo steering. Nuff said!

I have Calco...Couldnt do chain on my 22, Morse double not good either. Please expand....Mike King at Prime didnt seem to have a problem with it when it was set up?

75 Spectra V-Drive · Sep 15, 2009

74 HOWARD 21RC said:
All I got to say is E TICKET!
I thought I better nock it off before my wife kicked my ass:bash:
Gregs wife Edith was flying through the air and I thought I would catch her before she flew out.She landed face down in my lap..I hope Greg dont read this thread or I am in trouble.:moon:

78cole said:
Greg I wouldnt worry about it's Denis! she does take kick boxing(what was it you had to clean out of your pants?)

LOL

Im more worried about Edith, If that little cut leaves a scar I will never hear the end of it

78cole · Sep 15, 2009

highlimit9000 said:
I have Calco...Couldnt do chain on my 22, Morse double not good either. Please expand....Mike King at Prime didnt seem to have a problem with it when it was set up?

I have it in my campbell no slop at all, like it alot. but there is no saftey with it like the dual morse

rivergames · Sep 15, 2009

Vector said:
TC built his motor also. I think you saw his boat at TCs.

I havent seen the schiada over there, but maybe the motor. Looks like it ran great with the MD performance backing it up

Racey · Sep 15, 2009

Dual Morse is probably the best steering you can get, when you apply cost to the equation, and ease of installation it makes it even more attractive, the stuff was pretty cheap and way high quality.... There is only one problem with it..... you can't but it anymore since Telesux bought Morse out.

420HOA · Sep 15, 2009

So true Racey. I found a used set of morse cable with helm and installed them in my wifes Howard. I was lucky to find them. My Schiada came with the same set up and I restored it. :thumbsup

Crazyhippy · Sep 15, 2009

My concern is the bolts @ the rudder are in Single shear. It would be pretty easy to build a new tiller arm to put them into double shear.

These are not the boat that "crashed"

This tiller as the bolts in double shear (ignore the hydraulic ram vs. Cables). Many hundred times strong, and not all that much more $$ in the grand scheme of things.

Crazyhippy · Sep 15, 2009

looking deeper (squinting inches from the moniter) the Yellow boat may already have the double shear set-up.

highlimit9000 · Sep 15, 2009

Wouldnt the cable need to break for this to fail?

Crazyhippy · Sep 15, 2009

Or the pinch bolt... But it is pretty un-likely

RiverDave · Sep 16, 2009

Crazyhippy said:
looking deeper (squinting inches from the moniter) the Yellow boat may already have the double shear set-up.

What are you talking about single shear and double "shear?" etc?

Either a bolt is loaded "tensile" which is where they are strongest, or a bolt is loaded laterally in "shear." Which is where they would be the weakest, but depending on the application might still be waaaayyy more than enough in this application.

But one of those to me anyways look like they are using bolts to "clamp" a tiller on a shaft, which wouldn't have anythin to do with bolt strenght and would be a real bad idea in my mind (god forbid something slips, moves, etc..)

Some of them look to be side loaded which isn't real great either, and one of them looks to have bracketry bolted together in tensile and then over to heim joints which of the 3 pictured would probably be the best in my mind?

RD

RiverDave · Sep 16, 2009

Crazyhippy said:
Or the pinch bolt... But it is pretty un-likely

You see now to me I'd think the pinch bolt / clamp program is a terrible idea.. I would've Keyed it somehow? I think the idea of that thing slipping on the shaft or the pench bolt "relaxing" over time is quite possible?

RD

Crazyhippy · Sep 16, 2009

All of those bolts are loaded (for sake of argument) exclusively from the side. They are only supported on one side of the load (single shear).

If you look @ the pic of the Hydraulic steering, the bolt is supported on both sides of the load (double shear). It is soooo much stronger, because it no longer matters (much) if the bolt is torqued properly. It also doubles the "wear points" on the bolt, and the tiller, so in the long term there will be less wear and slop.

Crazyhippy · Sep 16, 2009

RiverDave said:
You see now to me I'd think the pinch bolt / clamp program is a terrible idea.. I would've Keyed it somehow? I think the idea of that thing slipping on the shaft or the pench bolt "relaxing" over time is quite possible?

RD

The shaft could have a "notch" cut into it that the bolt fits into which would keep it from spinning. Could be keyed on the backside too.

Roaddogg 4040 · Sep 20, 2009

RiverDave said:
You see now to me I'd think the pinch bolt / clamp program is a terrible idea.. I would've Keyed it somehow? I think the idea of that thing slipping on the shaft or the pench bolt "relaxing" over time is quite possible?

RD

Dave...
Those steering quadrants are keyed to the rudder... It is on the back side where you can't see it... I would still have a split coupler on both sides of the quadrant though... IMHO

Steve

Racey · Sep 20, 2009

Crazyhippy said:
My concern is the bolts @ the rudder are in Single shear. It would be pretty easy to build a new tiller arm to put them into double shear.

These are not the boat that "crashed"

This tiller as the bolts in double shear (ignore the hydraulic ram vs. Cables). Many hundred times strong, and not all that much more $$ in the grand scheme of things.

I haven't read all the posts in this thread but i can tell you that running dual bolts in the tiller arm for the cables is a very very bad setup. both cables need to share the same pivot point, geometric modeling proves that one cable has to stretch over 3/4" when the steering is turned to full lock when the pivots are spaced that distance apart. We've learned this a long long time ago, and for some reason not a lot of people abide by these basic principles of geometry, then they wonder why they break steering cables or wear them out so much faster than a properly configured single pivot system. Stretching a steel cable that far requires an incredible amount of force, and any force that goes beyond stretching the cable itself is applied somewhere else within the steering system.... bad bad stuff....

just some words of wisdom from the vault people..... spectra, schiada, sanger.... whatever... dual cable steering should be set up with a common pivot on the tiller.

EDIT: I just checked my geometry and on a 6.5" tiller swinging 45 degrees each way with the cables mounted on 26" stringers in the proper location(halfway between straight and lock) with a 2" center to center measurement on the cable mounts of on the tiller the cable stretch is right near 0.689" or just UNDER 3/4", which is still an incredible amount of stress.

420HOA · Sep 20, 2009

Racey said:
I haven't read all the posts in this thread but i can tell you that running dual bolts in the tiller arm for the cables is a very very bad setup. both cables need to share the same pivot point, geometric modeling proves that one cable has to stretch over 3/4" when the steering is turned to full lock when the pivots are spaced that distance apart. We've learned this a long long time ago, and for some reason not a lot of people abide by these basic principles of geometry, then they wonder why they break steering cables or wear them out so much faster than a properly configured single pivot system. Stretching a steel cable that far requires an incredible amount of force, and any force that goes beyond stretching the cable itself is applied somewhere else within the steering system.... bad bad stuff....

just some words of wisdom from the vault people..... spectra, schiada, sanger.... whatever... dual cable steering should be set up with a common pivot on the tiller.

EDIT: I just checked my geometry and on a 6.5" tiller swinging 45 degrees each way with the cables mounted on 26" stringers in the proper location(halfway between straight and lock) with a 2" center to center measurement on the cable mounts of on the tiller the cable stretch is right near 0.689" or just UNDER 3/4", which is still an incredible amount of stress.

Good knowledge learnered. I am building a tiller arm that will put my cables in double shear. Are you saying they also need to share a single pivot point at the tiller ? Can the pivot be high and low ? Still learning. Glenn:thumbsup

Crazyhippy · Sep 20, 2009

420HOA said:
Good knowledge learnered. I am building a tiller arm that will put my cables in double shear. Are you saying they also need to share a single pivot point at the tiller ? Can the pivot be high and low ? Still learning. Glenn:thumbsup

High and low should be fine. just adjust where the sheath ends @ the stringer accordingly. Maybe go really nuts and make a 3 tined fork. (Think E) w/ one long bolt going thru all of it:thumbsup

Good thinking Shane.

420HOA · Sep 20, 2009

Crazyhippy said:
High and low should be fine. just adjust where the sheath ends @ the stringer accordingly. Maybe go really nuts and make a 3 tined fork. (Think E) w/ one long bolt going thru all of it:thumbsup

Good thinking Shane.

With both cables coming thru the stringer will that increased/decreased angle be a problem ?:thumbsup

RiverDave · Sep 28, 2009

420HOA said:
Good knowledge learnered. I am building a tiller arm that will put my cables in double shear. Are you saying they also need to share a single pivot point at the tiller ? Can the pivot be high and low ? Still learning. Glenn:thumbsup

So long as they are on the same "arc" they will be fine.

Racey said:
I haven't read all the posts in this thread but i can tell you that running dual bolts in the tiller arm for the cables is a very very bad setup. both cables need to share the same pivot point, geometric modeling proves that one cable has to stretch over 3/4" when the steering is turned to full lock when the pivots are spaced that distance apart. We've learned this a long long time ago, and for some reason not a lot of people abide by these basic principles of geometry, then they wonder why they break steering cables or wear them out so much faster than a properly configured single pivot system. Stretching a steel cable that far requires an incredible amount of force, and any force that goes beyond stretching the cable itself is applied somewhere else within the steering system.... bad bad stuff....

just some words of wisdom from the vault people..... spectra, schiada, sanger.... whatever... dual cable steering should be set up with a common pivot on the tiller.

EDIT: I just checked my geometry and on a 6.5" tiller swinging 45 degrees each way with the cables mounted on 26" stringers in the proper location(halfway between straight and lock) with a 2" center to center measurement on the cable mounts of on the tiller the cable stretch is right near 0.689" or just UNDER 3/4", which is still an incredible amount of stress.

Learned about that when I was building my 1st mini.. LOL I didn't have cables and it was all solid linkage.. Needless to say it didn't turn. I ended up rremoving one of the arms, never did have a chance to re-do the whole thing before I sold it.

RD

75 Spectra V-Drive · Apr 27, 2011

Racey said:
I haven't read all the posts in this thread but i can tell you that running dual bolts in the tiller arm for the cables is a very very bad setup. both cables need to share the same pivot point, geometric modeling proves that one cable has to stretch over 3/4" when the steering is turned to full lock when the pivots are spaced that distance apart. We've learned this a long long time ago, and for some reason not a lot of people abide by these basic principles of geometry, then they wonder why they break steering cables or wear them out so much faster than a properly configured single pivot system. Stretching a steel cable that far requires an incredible amount of force, and any force that goes beyond stretching the cable itself is applied somewhere else within the steering system.... bad bad stuff....

just some words of wisdom from the vault people..... spectra, schiada, sanger.... whatever... dual cable steering should be set up with a common pivot on the tiller.

EDIT: I just checked my geometry and on a 6.5" tiller swinging 45 degrees each way with the cables mounted on 26" stringers in the proper location(halfway between straight and lock) with a 2" center to center measurement on the cable mounts of on the tiller the cable stretch is right near 0.689" or just UNDER 3/4", which is still an incredible amount of stress.

FUCK !!!!

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