Gelcoat 102

[Gelcoater]

Please forgive my spelling and grammar in this thread,as well as picture placement.I was mew to the site at the time and still figuring out how it all worked.Not to mention i had spent the last 20 years spraying and next to mo time at all writing anything other than my signature on checks.

ok gc 101 looked kinda lame, so... check this out. i like to work from a ruff sketch, im no pencil artist, and a clean mold. Now i start by just laying it out with 1/8 in. fine line tape

 

[Gelcoater]

so i just lay out the design on one side then transfer angles and measurements to the other side,then lay them down

 

[Gelcoater]

here ,ive laid 1/4 in. fine line to both sides of the pinstripe anywhere there will be a color other than white or pin color. are you confused yet?

 

[Gelcoater]

and work our way back. so when we build a boat out of a mold,we tape off or mask portions of the mold in some kind of design,spray the majority of the mold with gell,pull the tape off the mold,exposing bare mold in the design shape you masked. heres where it gets trickey,im laying multiple layers,varying widths between tape,to make different size lines,flames or what have you.this pic is the mold masked and a couple point trimmings away from spraying.will be sprayed monday the 7th

 

[Gelcoater]

il go into a little more detail of exactly what the hells goin on here when i post pics of the gel process,and for any one who hasn't read it,i highly urge you to read froggystyles fiberglass 101, he's much more articulate than i. it will give you a good idea of what will happen to the mold after i get done with the gel.his explination of exothermic heat and crosslinking applies to gelcoat as well

 

[vdcruiser]

That is so cool, your head has definately got to be clear to do that. :champagne:

 

[Gelcoater]

ok so what i did was lay out the graphic with 1/8" fine line tape,that will be where the pinstripe will be.then where the fade colors will be i have to have an edge to break the pin color away, so i put 1/4" fine line to do that.masking tape goes down on the mold in the fade "panels" next to the 1/4. this leaves athin gap between the two so i cover the gap with 1/2 " masking tape. there is still a gap between the 1/8 and 1/4 so its covered with either 3/4 or 1". i use a slightly wider tape on the first shot so after its pulled it exposes the 1/2" totaly free of over spray,remember its sprayed at about 22 mils,pretty thick. also of intrest is tape must be pulled while the gel is still wet,if it starts to harden or"Kick" the gel will come off in sheets. so i start by spraying from the keel up spraying against tape last

 

[Gelcoater]

so i pull the 1/8 tape and the 1" that covered the gap between the 1/4,expose the rest of the pin and cleen the points where the two pieces of tape overlap. let the gel kick and spray the gray pin and pull the 1/4 and the 1/2" masking

 

[Gelcoater]

now that last above pic shows all the masking removed from the first fade,this is usually where i take lunch the gell needs to fully dry,so i can re cover the gap between the pin and the other fade panels. like this

 

[Gelcoater]

first spray cleer, then the dark color, then cover the panel in a lighter color,blue here then pull the tape covering the gap of the next fade and remove the masking,clean any overspray and let it set up,then do it again and again and again,until all panels are sprayed

 

[Gelcoater]

after all the fades are shot the mold is sprayed black,it sits and cures a few hours,or usualy overnight and the lamination begins. sorry i didnt take a shot of it all black,figured you get the idea. i might take a few shots of the deck process next:blah:

 

[RiverDave]

Pleaes keep them coming. We are watching!

RD

 

[paradise]

See, this makes a lot more sense to me than painting cars. I think working from the outside in would make it a lot easier. I couldn't imagine having to re mask a color after you just painted it.

That would drive me crazy...
________
Avalanche

 

[Racey]

This is exactly what this section is all about, great posts! Keep em coming

 

[Outlaw]

Great thread, thanks for posting:thumbsup

 

[Gelcoater]

taped the deck today,to spray in the morning. that should be fun with the coldish air and poss. rain?can you say "slooooow" dry! Il try to take more than today ,got into the groove and spaced on the photo takin.

 

[Gelcoater]

here is the hull, lam. is done bulkheads next i would guess.they install the bulk head before mating deck to hull,and do so all in the mold so the boat comes out of the mold as a whole boat, not two pieces of boat to be assembled on a dolly.except in the case of a shue box fit hull,i dont know why anyone would want to do it dolly style. ever wonder why some boats like Hallett or Laveycraft feel so solid? my belief is the in the mold assembly. just my opinion.

 

[Gelcoater]

as i thought slow dry,this point is after cleaning,the next post shows before

 

[Gelcoater]

dirty point,

 

[Gelcoater]

so after spraying the pin,letting it dry and retape i sprayed the blue fade then the silver pannel then the black. it was about this time i see that mr. Murphy and his damn law had payed me an unwelcome visit. when i sprayed the clear for the silver,there was some fisheye so i hit it with a little more clear before doin the silver,alittle too much i guess cause it sagged pretty good so it will be "blown out" or aborted.it would not of been Hallett quality,and yes it could have been repaired after its out of the mold, but again not Hallett quality,and this unit is going to the L.A. show,so its got to be as good as it can be.will be starting over monday after x-mas.:grumble:

 

[Gelcoater]

 

[Racey]

Bummmmer, all that time laying tape to end up abandoning the whole deal!!! We'll be waiting for version 2.0, biting our nails, this is great stuff.

 

[Gelcoater]

Bummmmer, all that time laying tape to end up abandoning the whole deal!!! We'll be waiting for version 2.0, biting our nails, this is great stuff.

well Racey,shit happens. usually at least one per year, this is my one. and truth be told i only had about 3.5 hours in taping, the time was in paint/waiting for it to dry.the crappy part is i was 1 color away from finishing,that and no paycheck before x-mas,but thats life.

 

[Gelcoater]

My wife and I bought a house last year in Cape Coral, FL that has a fiberglass pool shell. It appears that the original gelcoat is slowly but surely coming off. There are several large areas that are showing the actual fibergalss surface brownish.....when rubbing on the white gelcoat it comes off fairly easily. I have tried consulting with pool restoration companies in my area...unfortunately there are only 3 companies in my area that will touch fiberglass shells.

1st company wants to resurface the whole thing with new fiberglass sheets and gel coat and have a 25 year warranty for 6900.

2nd company was out of their mind with 9000 for new gelcoat and tile

3rd company approx 6000 ....but didnt even care to come out and take a look.

so my options are very limited. I have opted to do this myself.

Can anyone recomment a product gelcoat wise?
Is it ok to choose a different color than white or will it really fade after 2-3 years?
How do I know if my pool has this hydrostic valve? a stand pipe? or well point?

anybody with some experience please HELP
thanks in advance aned sorry for the long post.

i wish i had some good info for you, but i have limited exp. in refinish. my advice would be this- company #1, not that you couldn't do it your self, but you noted "brownish fiberglass showing" indicating degridation of the fiberglass itself. simply regelling will not be a long-term fix, as water is already permiated the glass, if you simply regell,it will blister and fall off in short time. to really fix this and make it last, grinding the glassdown to non contaminated layers is required,re-glassing,sandingsomewhat smooth and gelling,and then sanding and buff for final finish.color wise white will fade less than others. as far as stand pipes/valves etc. i know Nothing about pools,never had one and unless i hit the lotto never will. if you do decide to do this yourself, research...alot, and dont skimp on your supplys,no HomeDepot sand paper, get quality 3M,[you get what you pay for]a good sander and an extra set of fingers as yours will be hurtin bad, and a big bag of good luck.please post some before/after pics when your done

 

[Gelcoater]

wow monday came quick,buisy with the holidays and a day of work, 3 days total i miss and half of the state of Az. gets banned, oh well here go's say hello to my little friend

 

[Gelcoater]

didnt take any pics of the taping,was the same as last time, i saved the pieces of tape that give me the angles,wrote their numbers on em,so the crossovers will [hopefully] line up. again lite gray base, platinum pins

 

[Gelcoater]

wow that first one really sucked. anyway,blue fade first then pearl black,then the silver,they behaved this time,one small orange stripe back it up with black for the laminators and i was outa there about 5:40,about 8.5 hours after i started taping

 

[Gelcoater]

this ones just for you R.D.

 

[vdcruiser]

Nice, How did you get all of the old gel out of the mold?

 

[Gelcoater]

Nice, How did you get all of the old gel out of the mold?

"i" didn't! the mold prep guys did. fairly easy though, 2ways of doing this. #1 while its still in the vinyle "soft" state you can just peel it out, like the picture showes me starting to do, or let it get hard and direct air pressure between the mold and gel and blow it out. remember this applied in a mold, and by design [with wax] should release from said mold fairly easily. Happy New Years all!arty:arty2:

 

[Roger 1]

You west coast Gel-coaters never cease to amaze me. I sometimes think that the best explaination is demonic possesion. Anybody that can do a custom paintjob like you guys do inside out, upside down and backwards MUST be possesed! You know, kinda' like listening to your records backwards.

P.S. For all you youngsters. Your question can be answered by "Googling" "Records".

 

[Gelcoater]

You west coast Gel-coaters never cease to amaze me. I sometimes think that the best explaination is demonic possesion. Anybody that can do a custom paintjob like you guys do inside out, upside down and backwards MUST be possesed! You know, kinda' like listening to your records backwards.

P.S. For all you youngsters. Your question can be answered by "Googling" "Records".

inverted dislexia, and isnt it silly that i still have records but no record player?

 

[Roger 1]

inverted dislexia, and isnt it silly that i still have records but no record player?

You should see if you can find a used "phonograph" somewhere so you can listen to your records. I still have my turntable hooked up to my sansui 9090DB. Just don't have that many records anymore.
My apology for the hijack and derailment.

You west coast gelcoaters rock!

 

[RiverDave]

this ones just for you R.D. View attachment 92031

LOL.. so that will forever be (granted non visible) on someones Hallett?

RD

 

[Racey]

Hahahah i love it!!!

 

[Gelcoater]

LOL.. so that will forever be (granted non visible) on someones Hallett?

RD

yulp! see it at :slomo: the L.A. show

 

[Gelcoater]

sprayin one monday:thumbsup gunna be like paintin a condo complex

 

[Outlaw]

Thanks For sharing

 

[Gelcoater]

Thanks For sharing

ok ok guess i had a smart assed comment comming. totaly spaced on taking pic the day i sprayed.will get some of the hull for sure. took about 45 min. to lay a base coat on the deck. all the nonskid areas in the floor{the highest places in the mold} have to be sprayed multi directionally like a popcorn ceiling or you get light spots in those areas. gel repair on a paterned non skid is a complete pain. so between the nonskid, lips around seatbase lockers,sinks,stairwells,etc. these deck boats are a handfull.

 

[Outlaw]

ok ok guess i had a smart assed comment comming. totaly spaced on taking pic the day i sprayed.will get some of the hull for sure. took about 45 min. to lay a base coat on the deck. all the nonskid areas in the floor{the highest places in the mold} have to be sprayed multi directionally like a popcorn ceiling or you get light spots in those areas. gel repair on a paterned non skid is a complete pain. so between the nonskid, lips around seatbase lockers,sinks,stairwells,etc. these deck boats are a handfull.

I wasn't being a smart ass, I really appreciate you sharing your knowledge,
this is a totally cool thread

 

[Gelcoater]

well i dunno why but i cant find the pics in my phone,like i didn't take em,but i did,F-ing technology:thumbsdown, so i will share with you a shot of a small problem spot.

 

[Gelcoater]

what you see is an orange base with a gray pinstripe next to it,and the shiny orange of the mold surface. my finger is pointing at a small area where the orange base was a little too thin,and when the gray was sprayed over it at normal thickness,it attacks the thin material causing this "buckeling"you see. now this a minor case and easily repaired once the boat is outa the mold. its not uncommon for a beginner to have patches of this [only bigger buckling]bigger than a foot ball, causing a blowout:grumble:

 

[Seamonkeys]

This is awesome. Always wanted to see how this was done. How hard is it to regelcoat an old seadoo that has faded. Or do they just paint it. It does have some minor dings through the gel to the glass.

 

[Gelcoater]

This is awesome. Always wanted to see how this was done. How hard is it to regelcoat an old seadoo that has faded. Or do they just paint it. It does have some minor dings through the gel to the glass.

get some gel from where ever is closest to you and patch it yourself. hit a dealer near you for some gel and hardener.before you think of re painting, try some compound and a buff with a good coat of wax after.the gel is very thick,and will usually buff out to nearly new.if you patch yourself you want to fill the scratch to just above surface and sand smooth working from 400 or so up to 2000,and compound buff.expect to pay $400 plus for some one to do it for you.welcome to RDP,look around a little,cool peeps here:thumbsup

 

[RetroBoats]

What type tape do you use ??? Having issues double taping over tape for the pull off....it pulls both of them off. Share your wisdom oh wise one.

 

[RetroBoats]

what you see is an orange base with a gray pinstripe next to it,and the shiny orange of the mold surface. my finger is pointing at a small area where the orange base was a little too thin,and when the gray was sprayed over it at normal thickness,it attacks the thin material causing this "buckeling"you see. now this a minor case and easily repaired once the boat is outa the mold. its not uncommon for a beginner to have patches of this [only bigger buckling]bigger than a foot ball, causing a blowout:grumble:

The other problem is spraying too heavy over the tape causing the pull off to chunk and so forth.

 

[Gelcoater]

first off,choice in tape#1 is Tesa,made in Germany[and like my buddy Vince on the Shamwow comercial says"we all know Germans Make good stuff"] get it from Bron tapes of so cal. 800-354-5379. choice #2 3ms scotch 233+[the green stuff] its ok,had some issues with glue residue in the past,but not too bad. Tesa is way better.

As to your second problem,if im reading right,some xtra layers of tape here and there to protect the underlying tape levels may be needed. apply them smartly to come off after you have pulled your lines. this will protect the underlying lines and cover tape from overspray buildup.

when taping the mold you need to be thinking 4-5 steps ahead,in regard to how its going to be pulled.I can give you pointers but sorry experience can not be taught,it must be learned,the only way to learn is to do.IM going to say even get a flat table mold,and screw around a little.practice multi layer taping and spraying.As you run into problems,think about how you could have taped it differently to avoid the problem and try it next.

If i remember right you said you have some experience with exterior painting? 80% of what you know in that world you need to lock away in your head, away from this process and approach this with an open mind.

 

[Gelcoater]

The other problem is spraying too heavy over the tape causing the pull off to chunk and so forth.

after re reading this i have to ask,is this chunking the line itself? or the gel on the masking built up so thick its tearing the masking?

If its the line itself,well its kicking before you got the tape off. your in Az,its hot,and there is no moisture in the air.humidity will [to a small degree] slow the drytime in the heat.use a slower catylist[like pd1] during the hot months,and do the job during the coolest part of the day[read 3am or so]. even here in ca.during the hottest part of the year its not uncommon for me to be in the booth with 2-3 colors down by 5:30 or so,and done with the boat by 9.

one thing i forgot to say about tape. DO NOT use automotive masking,no matter what kind of "deal" the sales guy trys to pitch.and on the fine line tape stick to the green #218 3m fineline. dont use the blue fine line,the gel will attack the plastic and when you try to pull it it will act like a rubberband then snap back into your work.
also dont use the tesa fine line [orange],will act just like the blue 3m.

 

[RetroBoats]

Somehow I missed your reply. Thanks for the tips. What tyep mold release do you like for taping over. Liquid gives the best gel coat shine but I haven't found tape will stick to it very well. Do you have a phone number I could give you a jingle at ??

 

[Gelcoater]

Somehow I missed your reply. Thanks for the tips. What tyep mold release do you like for taping over. Liquid gives the best gel coat shine but I haven't found tape will stick to it very well. Do you have a phone number I could give you a jingle at ??

Phone's drowned:thumbsdown

Your right there,liquid sucks for tapeing on,doesn't work worth a shit.Honestly I dont know if just going over it with another release wax will work,you may have to strip it.

Meguires gold mold release.:thumbsupI think its #8

So far I hven't come across any one using it on the boat molds.Some of them are using it for high traffic one color small parts,and like it.

The good guy sales men that know their product will know and tell you tape wont stick up front.
Out of the mold shine on the hull wont mean much if you plan to wetsand and buff the boat anyways. Honestly I never saw a diff. between the two in that dept.