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Xring01

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There have been several different threads regarding various topics on this. I hope this thread takes off, and gets come creative dialog going. Disclaimer: This is not my profession, just a guy trying to share some advice on what I do in my personal accounts. I do not make anything by sharing the below. For those that have the necessary $$$ to retire in comfort, then you dont need any of my advice. Move on to the next thread.

I have a major problem with "Financial Advisers"...

Why you may ask... Because there is absolutely no accountability in that profession. They make money regardless if your account goes or down. Either make $$$ on the balance, or make $$$ on the transactions they do for you. When they screw you over, there is nothing you can do about it, except transfer you $$ to the next guy who will do the same thing to you.

If they were truly good at what they do, then the could charge and hourly fee, just like a lawyer does. Seriously consider why you cant hire a Financial Adviser on an hourly basis. Because its a rigged system, to prevent the Markets from a total collapse in bad times. If everyone pulled the $$$ out at the same time, the markets would fail. So Financial advisers are in place to prevent that from happening, but alot of hard working people get screwed in that process.

The moment that I figured out the above, then I started reading alot of books, and taught my self how to plan for my own retirement.

Some of the Myths that are being spread:
You have to be diversified. I agree with this to a small point. The problem with Mainstream retirement advise, is spread your $$$ in to alot of different Mutual Funds. Thats stupid. The average Mutual fund cant beat the S&P 500. Fund managers have the regulations stacked against them. Thats a long story, which can be covered later.

Being over diversified, is a bigger problem than not being diversified. Because if you spread your $$$ around to many places, then you are hoping the market just goes up overall. If thats the goal, then just put the $$$ into a S&P 500 ETF, pay alot less fees than a mutual fund, and make alot more money.

Dollar Cost Average over 30-40years: Fuck that strategy, I only have $$$ Exposed to stocks when I feel we are in a Bull Market. The moment I feel the Bull, swinging to Bear, I sell everything and sit on the sidelines, waiting for another bull market to return. Hopefully I buy back in alot lower than I sold at. I will never follow the market down again, like I have done in the past. The argument against my thoughts above: No One Can Time The Market.. They are right, I do not have perfect timing, but I will not watch 50% of my $$$ disappear in a bear market.

My advice for people that want to grow there retirement account. Meaning you are willing to take some risk. Before you follow my below advice, you need to read up on the stocks you own at least a few times a week, if not daily. Go to yahoo finance, look up that stock symbol and read articles below it.

Buy individual stocks, in sectors that you feel have the strongest argument for going up. Then buy the best of breed in that sector. Never buy all in at one purchase. Buy into that position in 4-5 purchases, over time, dollar cost averaging your way in. Once you have a full position on that stock, set a trailing stop loss order on that stock, and continually move that stop loss order up, as the stock goes up in value. Which locks in your gains, and prevents major loss's.

For Example:
Amazon: Retail Sector, who does better than Amazon in retail. Lets say you want to put $10k into Amazon. Buy 4 Blocks of $2500, over a 3-6 month window. Then set a trailing stop loss on that order at what ever you are willing to lose. Say 10% lower, as AMZN goes up, move the trailing stop loss up... Say your 4 Buys into AMZN gave you $10K at average of $1000/share. Set your Stop Loss at $900. As AMZN goes past $1100, move the stop loss to $1000... As it goes to $1200, move the stop loss to $1100 ish... Until you own AMZN at $1575, with a stop loss at $1350... Meaning you have 35% ROI.

Entertainment: NFLX

Medical: ISRG

Oil & Gas: Not a sector I believe, I will not own anything in Oil/Gas.. Not going to happen.

Defense Stocks: there are several that I am watching.

SECTOR - Best in Class Stock in that Sector is what we focus on.

American and Global Politics, should give you a pretty good hint of what sectors have the best chance of going up, and what sectors have the best chance of going down.

Overall Portfolio should be less than 10 stocks, most likely less, unless you can find 10 sectors you truly believe have a good chance of going up. Set your stop loss orders and honor them. Sometimes they help, sometimes they hurt. BUT WE ALWAYS PROTECT THE PROFITS WE HAVE EARNED.

Yes, I understand most 401K plans do not allow for the purchase of individual stocks. Nothing is preventing you from transferring (say once/year) $$$ from a 401K to an Individual IRA plan that allows you to invest into individual stocks. This creates a Win/Win, because you still get your Company match on your 401K, (Which is 100% ROI for the most part), then you shift those funds into something that has alot better chance of appreciating in the long term.

Looking forward to your thoughts on this.

Final Disclaimer: Dont beat me up to bad, I am not selling anything here... This is just my strategy and what I have developed in the last 10-15 years. Yes, I have lost alot $$$ learning the above.
 

wsuwrhr

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I am always game to hear how others manage money, we can always learn something from that.
 

wsuwrhr

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100% truth.


I have a major problem with "Financial Advisers"...

Why you may ask... Because there is absolutely no accountability in that profession. They make money regardless if your account goes or down. Either make $$$ on the balance, or make $$$ on the transactions they do for you. When they screw you over, there is nothing you can do about it, except transfer you $$ to the next guy who will do the same thing to you.

If they were truly good at what they do, then the could charge and hourly fee, just like a lawyer does. Seriously consider why you cant hire a Financial Adviser on an hourly basis. Because its a rigged system, to prevent the Markets from a total collapse in bad times. If everyone pulled the $$$ out at the same time, the markets would fail. So Financial advisers are in place to prevent that from happening, but alot of hard working people get screwed in that process.
 

JD D05

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How would you feel about a product that had a guaranteed floor of 2.5 % a cap of 13.5 % used after tax dollars with no tax on the growth. You could take loans out at a capped 6% at any time without penalty. Multiple indexes to choose from etc. Fees and costs are there but not terrible...
 

Xring01

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How would you feel about a product that had a guaranteed floor of 2.5 % a cap of 13.5 % used after tax dollars with no tax on the growth. You could take loans out at a capped 6% at any time without penalty. Multiple indexes to choose from etc. Fees and costs are there but not terrible...

Can you be a bit more Vague:
Honestly: I took the time to write up a huge thread, with DETAILS, Lots of them...

Your post, I have no clue what this is. Annuity? Life Insurance?
If so, Those have places in an overall retirement strategy, I am no expert on those plat forms. Yes I have life insurance, but not Annuity.

You will have to provide alot more details to get my attention.
 

JD D05

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Can you be a bit more Vague:
Honestly: I took the time to write up a huge thread, with DETAILS, Lots of them...

Your post, I have no clue what this is. Annuity? Life Insurance?
If so, Those have places in an overall retirement strategy, I am no expert on those plat forms. Yes I have life insurance, but not Annuity.

You will have to provide alot more details to get my attention.

I don't have the patience to type that much ha. Ya life product IUL specifically, I have one. Designed correctly they work pretty good IMO. Biggest downfall is products are not designed with a suppressed death benefit causing max premium dollars not funding the cash value.
 

Instigator

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Xring 01
With reference to the OP, do you mind sharing your 1yr, 3 yr 5 yr, 1 yr, LTD annual ROIs along with some examples of the specific investments that generated said returns that can be verified.
I realize that this is asking you to be very specific but you did start the thread asking for the discussion......
On another note,, you suggested transferring 401K funds into an IRA annually, What type of IRA are you suggesting and why?
 

Xring01

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Xring 01
With reference to the OP, do you mind sharing your 1yr, 3 yr 5 yr, 1 yr, LTD annual ROIs along with some examples of the specific investments that generated said returns that can be verified.
I realize that this is asking you to be very specific but you did start the thread asking for the discussion......
On another note,, you suggested transferring 401K funds into an IRA annually, What type of IRA are you suggesting and why?

Love the questions: Stuff like this, thats can help others learn from my mistakes.
What I will share, is that I am continually learning, the more I learn, I refine the strategy.

3-5 years ago, I was only playing with a small portion of my entire retirement portfolio. Reasons were as the company I work for grew. THey changed plans, I had $$ in differenct accounts. Some I could buy individual stocks, some I could only buy mutual funds.

In one account, I went all in on Netflix at $75/share over 2.5 years ago... Its at $312 now.. So in that example... did very well. To the point, I sold off 40%, to diversify into something (GOOG)else about 6 months ago. GOOG did nothing, so I sold that portion off and bought more MU on a recent pull back.

I have examples of stuff like this in different accounts.

In a 401K account I have, the only thing I can invest in is Mutual funds. So I changed my annual contributions in it to a minimal amount. Putting the remaining funds in a ETrade account, where I have to pay Capital Gains on. My current holdings in that account are AMZN, MU, NFLX & NVDA. Owned AMZN since $750, MU since $28, NVDA since $95. As more $$$ comes in over the years, I have bought more of these stocks.

As you can see, its a bit difficult to give you direct answers.

What I can tell anyone, is I have been very conservative in moving to the above strategy. Being that conservative, has cost me alot or ROI. Should have been alot more aggressive.

I am not perfect, I have a lot to learn. What I have learned, I should have more of the $$$ thats in the Etrade account, into a IRA.. So I wouldn't have to capital gains on the gains.

Using my above strategy made some real $$$ in that account. When I sell, the tax man will get his $$$. To back up, I was putting $$$ into the Etrade account, to build the funds to buy a rental property. I think that plan is on hold, because the ROI on rental property's in the areas I am looking at, do not have the ROI as the Markets right now.

Equals, revising the strategy.

A problem I have, is alot of different accounts. That I need to consolidate, which will make my life/strategy alot easier to accomplish.

With regards to your question on a IRA I would recommend.. I would suggest you talk to an Accountant about that. Who can take a true look at what you have and the best way to transfer it, without paying any penaltys. I would suggest you put that $$ in a IRA that allows you to invest in individual stocks.... Dont transfer the $$$ unless you can invest it the way you want to.
 
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sirbob

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I have a major problem with "Financial Advisers"...

Why you may ask... Because there is absolutely no accountability in that profession. They make money regardless if your account goes or down. Either make $$$ on the balance, or make $$$ on the transactions they do for you. When they screw you over, there is nothing you can do about it, except transfer you $$ to the next guy who will do the same thing to you.

If they were truly good at what they do, then the could charge and hourly fee, just like a lawyer does. Seriously consider why you cant hire a Financial Adviser on an hourly basis. Because its a rigged system, to prevent the Markets from a total collapse in bad times. If everyone pulled the $$$ out at the same time, the markets would fail. So Financial advisers are in place to prevent that from happening, but alot of hard working people get screwed in that process.

I am intersted in your topic - however after reading the first 2 paragraphs I stopped. I have no idea what any of your points are after that because...

Paragraph 1 - I pay my adviser based on growth. I do pay a very small maintenance fee, however, my advisor makes more money when I make more money - our goals are aligned. My fees paid last year (one of the best growth markets in years) amounted to .39% of my account balance at the end of the year. Seems cheap to me to have somebody who understand the market help me make good choices. My guy makes $ on my account but makes $$$ when my account does well.

Paragraph 2 - You can get and I did get an analysis of my plan and suggestions for a flat fee - granted it wasn't hourly, But I knew what I was paying upfront and agreed to the amount for what I received.

You have a lot written after those first 2 paragraphs and I will give you the benefit of the doubt that some of it is good thinking. But your basic premise is not entirely accurate, so I didn't continue...
 
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Raffit78

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As a "small business" owner. I don't have the luxury of much of anything getting back from my employer ;) but my normal Roth IRA, 401K, that I am able to put in every year without being taxed I do.


I use the stock market as my savings account, (No brokers, No fees paid only when I purchase stock). so when I have enough dollars, I can use it to purchase real estate with 20-40% down. (I am conservative when it comes to buying real estate and time the market fairly well).

Here's my current stock holdings and have held and added to frequently. On my own.

Screen Shot 2018-03-19 at 10.13.39 AM.png
Screen Shot 2018-03-19 at 10.47.38 AM.png


If all things equal, I Would have to have 2-3 "earned" millions in my stock account to pay me an average of 5-6k a month to sustain our current livelihood. (with no mortgage due). The only problem is that it is more volatile then real estate long term. What I mean is. Rent doesn't change every day. Stocks can and do. (If by any means, you think I am wrong, I don't mean to be an expert, please clarify if I am seeing this wrong).

My goal is to have 3 properties paid off between the next 3-5 years. This can almost guarantee me an income of 5-6k a month with less then the 2-3 "earned" millions which I would need to get the same result with less volatility in the stock market. (mortgage after your initial down payment is paid by a renter).

So realistically speaking, I'm invested in 3 properties at about 120-160k out of pocket to try to get the same result as someone with 2-3 million in the stock market. I'm solely basing this off of 3-4% gain a year in the stock market. (no risky stuff).

This is just my two cents and what I have worked on. I don't bat for the grand slams or the home runs. I simply take base hits when available. I am currently sitting on the sidelines for the real estate to tank so the Nordstroms half yearly sale can start up again.
 

Xring01

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As a "small business" owner. I don't have the luxury of much of anything getting back from my employer ;) but my normal Roth IRA, 401K, that I am able to put in every year without being taxed I do.


I use the stock market as my savings account, (No brokers, No fees paid only when I purchase stock). so when I have enough dollars, I can use it to purchase real estate with 20-40% down. (I am conservative when it comes to buying real estate and time the market fairly well).

Here's my current stock holdings and have held and added to frequently. On my own.

View attachment 628635 View attachment 628636

If all things equal, I Would have to have 2-3 "earned" millions in my stock account to pay me an average of 5-6k a month to sustain our current livelihood. (with no mortgage due). The only problem is that it is more volatile then real estate long term. What I mean is. Rent doesn't change every day. Stocks can and do. (If by any means, you think I am wrong, I don't mean to be an expert, please clarify if I am seeing this wrong).

My goal is to have 3 properties paid off between the next 3-5 years. This can almost guarantee me an income of 5-6k a month with less then the 2-3 "earned" millions which I would need to get the same result with less volatility in the stock market. (mortgage after your initial down payment is paid by a renter).

So realistically speaking, I'm invested in 3 properties at about 120-160k out of pocket to try to get the same result as someone with 2-3 million in the stock market. I'm solely basing this off of 3-4% gain a year in the stock market. (no risky stuff).

This is just my two cents and what I have worked on. I don't bat for the grand slams or the home runs. I simply take base hits when available. I am currently sitting on the sidelines for the real estate to tank so the Nordstroms half yearly sale can start up again.

Love it: Thats a strategy that can win. You worked your ass off to get to that position. I am trying to get into the Rental Property game. It will be part of my retirement strategy.

your comment about "Half Off Sale": thats why I use stop loss orders. Because I would have sold NFLX at $150, at $225 if I would have followed my prior strategy. But letting it ride and sell itself strategy, let me watch is go to $330... Something to think about.
 

Xring01

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I am intersted in your topic - however after reading the first 2 paragraphs I stopped. I have no idea what any of your points are after that because...

Paragraph 1 - I pay my adviser based on growth. I do pay a very small maintenance fee, however, my advisor makes more money when I make more money - our goals are aligned. My fees paid last year (one of the best growth markets in years) amounted to .39% of my account balance at the end of the year. Seems cheap to me to have somebody who understand the market help me make good choices. My guy makes $ on my account but makes $$$ when my account does well.

Paragraph 2 - You can get and I did get an analysis of my plan and suggestions for a flat fee - granted it wasn't hourly, But I knew what I was paying upfront and agreed to the amount for what I received.

You have a lot written after those first 2 paragraphs and I will give you the benefit of the doubt that some of it is good thinking. But your basic premise is not entirely accurate, so I didn't continue...

You agree you pay $$$ regardless if the account goes up or down...
Right now you are happy because markets are up, so a small fee is justified.
What happens when you Bear Market comes, you loose 35%, and are still paying the same fee? Did they earn that $$$, while your account tanks? They will justify the shit out of it. Ask me how I know.

The question you need to ask yourself and them, did their strategy beat the S&P 500 over the last 5 years. Odds are they didnt.

Warren Buffet just won a huge bet against Hedge fun managers on this. Over 10 year average. NONE, not one beat the SP500. These are the best in game.

But the fees paid to mutual fund company's and the financial advisers, rape and pillage on the average 401k investor.

If they didnt beat the S&P500, then you most likely waisted alot of Mutual fund fees and Financial adviser fees.. Take a very long, hard look at your statements.

Learn about the S&P 500 ETF, or any other ETF.... Exchange traded Funds.. Only a fee when you buy it, and sell it, No monthly/quarterly/annual fees.... On Etrade it cost me $6.95/trade

"
The real winner of Warren Buffett’s 10-year bet against hedge funds is Girls Inc. of Omaha.

Buffett bet $1 million in 2007 that an index fund would outperform a basket of hedge funds over a decade. The proceeds would go to charity, and Buffett designated his local Girls Inc. affiliate as the recipient if he won. When the closing bell rang at the New York Stock Exchange Friday, the famed investor locked in his victory.

Buffett, the chairman of Berkshire Hathaway Inc. BRK.A, -2.00% BRK.B, -1.99% has said throughout this year that he is confident he would win. From the start of the bet through the end of 2016, Mr. Buffett’s S&P 500 index fund SPX, -2.03% returned 7.1% compounded annually. The competing basket of funds of hedge funds selected by asset manager Protégé Partners returned an average of 2.2%.

And because of a twist in the bet’s history, Girls Inc. of Omaha is likely to get much more than $1 million.

Buffett and Protégé Partners originally put about $320,000 each into bonds that would appreciate to $1 million over the course of their wager. But the bonds appreciated much faster than expected as interest rates fell so the two sides agreed to go for a bigger prize. In late 2012, they agreed to buy 11,200 shares of Berkshire B shares, which cost $89.70 at the end of 2012. They’ve climbed 121% since then. After Friday, the last day of trading in 2017, those 11,200 shares are worth $2.22 million
The real winner of Warren Buffett’s 10-year bet against hedge funds is Girls Inc. of Omaha.

Buffett bet $1 million in 2007 that an index fund would outperform a basket of hedge funds over a decade. The proceeds would go to charity, and Buffett designated his local Girls Inc. affiliate as the recipient if he won. When the closing bell rang at the New York Stock Exchange Friday, the famed investor locked in his victory.

Buffett, the chairman of Berkshire Hathaway Inc. BRK.A, -2.00% BRK.B, -1.99% has said throughout this year that he is confident he would win. From the start of the bet through the end of 2016, Mr. Buffett’s S&P 500 index fund SPX, -2.03% returned 7.1% compounded annually. The competing basket of funds of hedge funds selected by asset manager Protégé Partners returned an average of 2.2%.

And because of a twist in the bet’s history, Girls Inc. of Omaha is likely to get much more than $1 million.

Buffett and Protégé Partners originally put about $320,000 each into bonds that would appreciate to $1 million over the course of their wager. But the bonds appreciated much faster than expected as interest rates fell so the two sides agreed to go for a bigger prize. In late 2012, they agreed to buy 11,200 shares of Berkshire B shares, which cost $89.70 at the end of 2012. They’ve climbed 121% since then. After Friday, the last day of trading in 2017, those 11,200 shares are worth $2.22 million."
 
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copterzach

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What about Master Limited Partnerships?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

Xring01

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What about Master Limited Partnerships?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

A buddy of mine is very successful with MLP's and CEF's Closed in funds... But he is a professional day trader, who only cares about .02cents profit / trade. Thats the volume of his trades.

IN TODAYS MARKET: In my opinion, the we are in a huge Bull Market. Make hay when you can. Because Bull markets do not last forever.

My personal belief is individual stocks, (outlined above) have a higher ROI, than MLP's and CEF's.

Why, over diversification. Rules that govern how they invest, lots of reasons.

DISCLAIMER: I do not know much about MLP's/CEF's or alot of other things in the markets. I focus on individual stocks, which have treated me right.
 

DC-88

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I plan on ultimately reducing the amount left in any facet of the "market", and staying with apartments, a couple currently established well located rentals, and hopefully a corporate backed land lease or 2 at some point. Traditional investing through firms works great for many, but at the end of the day and as much of a pain as it can be, I want the larger % to be income producing real estate.
 
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nameisbond

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The only thing Id change is waiting for a bull market and when the market goes bear sit on the sidelines. I short when I see the market turning down into a bear market.
 

Xring01

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The only thing Id change is waiting for a bull market and when the market goes bear sit on the sidelines. I short when I see the market turning down into a bear market.

Shorting the Markets or individual stocks, requires alot knowledge that your average investor does not possess.

I am trying to develop those skill sets now. But I have a long way to go.
 

Xring01

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I plan on ultimately reducing the amount left in any facet of the "market", and staying with apartments, a couple currently established well located rentals, and hopefully a corporate backed land lease or 2 at some point. Traditional investing through firms works great for many, but at the end of the day and as much as a pain as it can be, I want the larger % to be income producing real estate.

At the end of the day: Retirement Planning, is all about an Income Stream.
Whether is a huge 401k that your draw from, or real estate, or fill in the blank..

I think Rental Property's are a very safe way to achieve the retirement goal.

I will eventually get there. As I have mentioned on other threads. The cost of housing in the markets close to me, it just doesnt make sense. I live in Murrieta CA. With 20% down, you can rent it for the monthly mortgage payment. Meaning NO ROI. A slight tax gain, maybe, but there some significant risks also. Fore now: I am playing the markets, when they slow down, then I might pull the money from the markets and play the rental game.
 

nameisbond

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Shorting the Markets or individual stocks, requires alot knowledge that your average investor does not possess.

I am trying to develop those skill sets now. But I have a long way to go.

True, I grew up around the stock market. At 16, my father had me answering his phone during the summers, etc... By high school graduation I was his assistant full time for years. He's been a stock broker since 76 and retired in 2002. He still day trades.
 

sirbob

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You agree you pay $$$ regardless if the account goes up or down... NO!!!
Right now you are happy because markets are up, so a small fee is justified.
What happens when you Bear Market comes, you loose 35%, and are still paying the same fee? NO!!!!!! Did they earn that $$$, while your account tanks? NO!!!! They will justify the shit out of it. Ask me how I know.

You sound like a girl who's boyfriend treated her poorly and now all boys are bad.


The question you need to ask yourself and them, did their strategy beat the S&P 500 over the last 5 years. Odds are they didnt.

Warren Buffet just won a huge bet against Hedge fun managers on this. Over 10 year average. NONE, not one beat the SP500. These are the best in game.

But the fees paid to mutual fund company's and the financial advisers, rape and pillage on the average 401k investor.

If they didnt beat the S&P500, then you most likely waisted alot of Mutual fund fees and Financial adviser fees.. Take a very long, hard look at your statements.

Learn about the S&P 500 ETF, or any other ETF.... Exchange traded Funds.. Only a fee when you buy it, and sell it, No monthly/quarterly/annual fees.... On Etrade it cost me $6.95/trade

As you said with Warren - no one beat the S&P. So I don't feel bad about my guy not beating it either.

I can only assume you are better at reading information on which stocks to pick than you are at reading my post. I didn't say I agreed to pay $$$ win or loose. I pay $ when we loose and I pay $$$ only when we win.

You are also only looking at investing as a "win" = gain game. A lot of what you are paying for with advisors is to not loose. Understanding what is safe but still offers up side is what you pay for as well - not just what can win. Example - in 2007 my advisor account was 65% cash. We did not loose what many did.

I have money I manage myself, so I'm not 100p invested with my advisors (actually 2 different ones that I play off each other to create the competitive drive to do well). I also can show you a few stock picks that I made that out performed the market in general... big deal.

I also have read my statements (in detail) that's why I know to the 100th/ point what I pay for advice. I also understand what investments I'm in for tax reasons and which ones I'm in for short term vs long term gain.

With that said, I don't feel like I "most likely waisted a lot Mutual fund fees and Financial advisor fees"

I also would think an investor as knowledgable and skilled as you are would know that $6.95 a trade is highway robbery - everybody knows you can do trades on Schwab for $4.95. :)
 
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rvrrun

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When my father sold the family business some 30 years ago, he went back to school and became a CFP. He did this primarily to advise family members and close friends (that were almost family). He managed most investments and others were handled by Sierra and a couple of other firms. We invested with Sierra when they were getting started, at the last investor meeting I attended they were managing over $3 billion. They also have maintained a higher than 10% average even through '08. There's your accountability, their standing with their customers. I traded for a few years using methods taught to me by my father. It allowed me to have nice toys, no mortgage and be able to retire early. Even with stops on all accounts I was glued to my monitors from open until close and have many gray hairs to prove it. It was shortening my life and the stress kept me awake. Now, all funds are with three firms (including Sierra) and I am much happier.
 
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DC-88

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At the end of the day: Retirement Planning, is all about an Income Stream. I am playing the markets, when they slow down, then I might pull the money from the markets and play the rental game.
Don't wait forever ;) . I just sold a couple shit stocks to get some losses to offset gains this year. One was some 14 + - year old NOKIA with a heavy 5 figure loss. Just shit still laying around lol. I dunno, there's been plenty of solid ones over the years but I wouldn't want as big a % of my future wrapped up in that world as many others seem to. Just my .o2
 

Raffit78

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I plan on ultimately reducing the amount left in any facet of the "market", and staying with apartments, a couple currently established well located rentals, and hopefully a corporate backed land lease or 2 at some point. Traditional investing through firms works great for many, but at the end of the day and as much of a pain as it can be, I want the larger % to be income producing real estate.


Excuse my ignorance as I don't know what the term "corporate backed land lease is" care to explain? What is that and how does it simply put, make you money?
 

DC-88

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Excuse my ignorance as I don't know what the term "corporate backed land lease is" care to explain? What is that and how does it simply put, make you money?
Basically a piece of land with improvements you purchase and own, which comes with a tenant in place who has signed a long term lease. The terms , tenant, corporate backing or not, length, years left , and rent bumps (increases) determine the value, as does location + age/condition of the structure. A corporate backed one will guarantee the rent for the term whether the business (say a 7-11 for example) succeeds or fails. One of my good friends /mentors is doing well with this type of thing as a % of his retirement and he's been coaching me on them over the last 5 years or so. It's on my hit list for sure
 

Raffit78

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Something for instance a 7-11 or del taco, I see. So the land has already been developed, leased out. Something like this, I'm guessing is going to cost a ton of money since the land is already been built on and leased? I'm guessing the ROI would be very low as well? Something like this can be found on Loopnet?
 

Xring01

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Alot of great information being shared.

The best part, not everyone agrees with me or my strategy. Making me think harder and hopefully get better.

Love the above post, Corp Backed Land Lease.. Never heard that term before.

The markets pulled back pretty good today.
FB pulled back huge, I think it will pull back more. But even then I would not buy it. Just think there is more pain ahead.

NVDA: one I hold pulled back 3%... Hummm thats a bit odd, shouldnt have pulled back that much. Maybe profit takers, maybe something bigger, got to watch it close.

TAL, AZO, ALNY on my watchlist, all were green, on a day when most was red.. I need to do more research on them... Might be buy worthy....

LOL Here, one of the industy's that I outlined in my originial post, was defense... Lockheed Martin has been on my watchlist for along time... Guess what was up on a down day... LMT... Any reason not to buy LMT? PE Ratio is high, but that 5 year chart/track record indicates thats normal for LMT.

Do any of you have thoughts on todays markets? Or any specific stocks you are looking at?
 
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Xring01

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As you said with Warren - no one beat the S&P. So I don't feel bad about my guy not beating it either.

I can only assume you are better at reading information on which stocks to pick than you are at reading my post. I didn't say I agreed to pay $$$ win or loose. I pay $ when we loose and I pay $$$ only when we win.

You are also only looking at investing as a "win" = gain game. A lot of what you are paying for with advisors is to not loose. Understanding what is safe but still offers up side is what you pay for as well - not just what can win. Example - in 2007 my advisor account was 65% cash. We did not loose what many did.

I have money I manage myself, so I'm not 100p invested with my advisors (actually 2 different ones that I play off each other to create the competitive drive to do well). I also can show you a few stock picks that I made that out performed the market in general... big deal.

I also have read my statements (in detail) that's why I know to the 100th/ point what I pay for advice. I also understand what investments I'm in for tax reasons and which ones I'm in for short term vs long term gain.

With that said, I don't feel like I "most likely waisted a lot Mutual fund fees and Financial advisor fees"

I also would think an investor as knowledgable and skilled as you are would know that $6.95 a trade is highway robbery - everybody knows you can do trades on Schwab for $4.95. :)

Your happy with your plan, that I can respect. Sounds like you have a sound plan for the future. Most people dont. So the basis of the thread is to help those that don't, I have a few questions.

In the $$$ you invest yourself, how does that compare to the $$$ invested with your advisers. Who makes more??? What stocks/bonds or ??? do you invest in???

If your advisers cant beat the S&P 500, You admitted they most likely will not. Then why not put your $$$ in a SP500 ETF???

With regard to ETrade... I was with Options House who had 3.95/trade. Then Etrade bought them out, and now I pay more... So your right, I pay more now, but thats do to a buy out. I didnt choose ETrade, they chose me... HA... yes I am joking. Sarcasm is hard to put in text.
 

Xring01

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I put my money in the fridge, only thing left standing after ur house burns down
[emoji6] [emoji202]

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Thats one strategy,
Doesnt help with inflation, but can prevent loss's.

Just save a bunch of it....

I had grandparents that buried $$$ in the back yard... I am not joking.
They didnt trust banks or the government.
 
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DC-88

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Something for instance a 7-11 or del taco, I see. So the land has already been developed, leased out. Something like this, I'm guessing is going to cost a ton of money since the land is already been built on and leased? I'm guessing the ROI would be very low as well? Something like this can be found on Loopnet?

Good ones are pricey , and seem to take effort to find. A trusted broker would be essential for me. However they can and do appreciate , especially after a renewal from a good tenant. Maybe my buddy will chime in , but it’s just on my retirement wish list due to the hands off nature and from watching his experience so far -


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sirbob

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Your happy with your plan, that I can respect. Sounds like you have a sound plan for the future. Most people dont. So the basis of the thread is to help those that don't, I have a few questions.

In the $$$ you invest yourself, how does that compare to the $$$ invested with your advisers. Who makes more??? What stocks/bonds or ??? do you invest in???

If your advisers cant beat the S&P 500, You admitted they most likely will not. Then why not put your $$$ in a SP500 ETF???

With regard to ETrade... I was with Options House who had 3.95/trade. Then Etrade bought them out, and now I pay more... So your right, I pay more now, but thats do to a buy out. I didnt choose ETrade, they chose me... HA... yes I am joking. Sarcasm is hard to put in text.

The portfolio I control myself beats the S&P most years. However I only invest in stocks that I know and understand so it doesn't represent a large % of my total portfolio. I do it for hobby mostly. Even given that - I don't trust myself enough with my lack of research - it takes bunch to be better informed.

Why not put it all on the S&P and let it ride? I seriously considered that (again) in January of this year - I choose not to. I am glad I made that choice. However the reason why I haven't over time is because of timing. It's always easy to see what the future holds when looking in the mirror. It seems like the times I considered it, I knew I had a need for funds in the short term (3-5 years) i.e. I want to do a real estate deal or my kids were going to be in college etc. in other words, I wasn't willing to take the risk, I needed the money.

Again you seem to base your discussion on: did something gain more than something else. That is very important - but not the most important thing to me. Security is important to me - in fact at this time in my life its more import to make a smaller % and minimize the risk, then to risk losing a bunch of $ in the hopes of making more.

Which leads me to diversification. That is what reduces risk.

Which leads me to the advice I was told a long time ago by a gentleman that was much older, wiser and richer than me... Never put your money & your time in the same place unless its your business. His name was John Loeb, you can read about him here:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loeb,_Rhoades_&_Co.

I'm not in the money business - that's why I pay somebody to give me advice on it.
 
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Instigator

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Thats one strategy,
Doesnt help with inflation, but can prevent loss's.

Just save a bunch of it....

I had grandparents that buried $$$ in the back yard... I am not joking.
They didnt trust banks or the government.
They were obviously smart people and I would bet that Lawyers and Politicians were also on that list too! :D
 

Xring01

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The portfolio I control myself beats the S&P most years. However I only invest in stocks that I know and understand so it doesn't represent a large % of my total portfolio. I do it for hobby mostly. Even given that - I don't trust myself enough with my lack of research - it takes bunch to be better informed.

Why not put it all on the S&P and let it ride? I seriously considered that (again) in January of this year - I choose not to. I am glad I made that choice. However the reason why I haven't over time is because of timing. It's always easy to see what the future holds when looking in the mirror. It seems like the times I considered it, I knew I had a need for funds in the short term (3-5 years) i.e. I want to do a real estate deal or my kids were going got be in college etc. in other words, I hasn't willing to take the risk, I needed the money.

Again you seem to base your discussion on: did something gain more than something else. That is very important - but not the most important thing to me. Security is important to me - in fact at this time in my life its more import to make a smaller % and minimize the risk, then to risk losing a bunch of $ in the hopes of making more.

Which leads me to diversification. That is what reduces risk.

Which leads me to the advice I was told a long time ago by a gentleman that was much older, wiser and richer than me... Never put your money & your time in the same place unless its your business. His name was John Loeb, you can read about him here:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loeb,_Rhoades_&_Co.

I'm not in the money business - that's why I pay somebody to give me advice on it.

Love this stuff, getting down to real decisions, being made for the right reasons, to achieve your goals. I have learned from you, I hope you learn from me.

Your opinion on my strategy. I will try to clarify it, with out getting to long winded.
Bull Market - make money when you can, with the best odds of success, protect your profits. BEAR Market, do your best to sit on the sidelines and get in at the bottom.

I clearly stated my thoughts on diversification in the above posts. There is a place for it, but most 99.9% of investors prevent themselves from making money due to diversification. BUT THATS MY OPINION. Take it or leave it.

Risk: There is risk in the markets, but Stop Loss order can mitigate that risk for the most part. BUT NOT ALWAYS. If a stock opens alot lower than your stop loss, it will sell at that super low price. Thats the risk of stop loss. Its not fool proof. BUT IT HAS PROTECTED ME MORE TIMES THAN I CAN COUNT.

With regard to your quote:
Putting Money & Time, unless its your business: Well my thoughts on that are quite simple.

My retirement is my business, thats why I dedicate so much time planning for it.

A wise man once taught me, if you dont plan for your retirement, no one else will.
 

milkmoney

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Thats one strategy,
Doesnt help with inflation, but can prevent loss's.

Just save a bunch of it....

I had grandparents that buried $$$ in the back yard... I am not joking.
They didnt trust banks or the government.
I agree on the inflation, but after the loss back in 08 , I am still money ahead
[emoji202] I have saved a lot , u new here, I am cheap

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Xring01

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They were obviously smart people and I would bet that Lawyers and Politicians were also on that list too! :D

Or Game Wardens... Hunting Season, what hell is that... freezer is empty = its hunting season...

Seriously, Where I grew up in the middle of no where Texas. We ate Deer/Wild Hog/Rabbit/Catfish. Why, cause it was free. Just kill, skin, process it, freeze it. That simple. We had access to more cattle than you can imagine. But you dont eat your 401K, you sell that for a profit.

When I was a little kid, I could never figure out, why people bought meat at the grocery store. I figured they were to lazy to kill a deer, or to poor to own a gun. Everybody I knew lived the same way.

Today we call that kind of living, Organic... laughing my ass off..

Back to Game Wardens, they didnt mess with us. They knew better. They kept there distance.

Texas was alot different in the 70's & 80's.
 
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EmpirE231

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I'm currently just putting it into an IRA setup with betterment, where you can quickly change your portfolio percentage between stocks/bonds (ex. 80% stocks 20% bonds, vise versa) seems like a decent tool, but we also seem to be in both a stock and bond bubble... so not sure how well that will play out. Also, can't really contribute too much $5,500 annually. Don't have no 401k options, and not really ready to dive into an investment type acct.

the real plan is just saving and saving, waiting for the real estate market to correct and get some rentals. Something about property and renters paying for it, just seems a lot more appealing to me for retirement income. That's my game plan for now.
 

Xring01

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I'm currently just putting it into an IRA setup with betterment, where you can quickly change your portfolio percentage between stocks/bonds (ex. 80% stocks 20% bonds, vise versa) seems like a decent tool, but we also seem to be in both a stock and bond bubble... so not sure how well that will play out. Also, can't really contribute too much $5,500 annually. Don't have no 401k options, and not really ready to dive into an investment type acct.

the real plan is just saving and saving, waiting for the real estate market to correct and get some rentals. Something about property and renters paying for it, just seems a lot more appealing to me for retirement income. That's my game plan for now.

Saving and planning are your best tools. Be careful, there could be penalties for pulling money out of IRA for an investment property. There may be ways to avoid the penalty, but an Accountant can help you with those decisions.
 

sirbob

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With regard to your quote:
Putting Money & Time, unless its your business: Well my thoughts on that are quite simple.

My retirement is my business, thats why I dedicate so much time planning for it.

A wise man once taught me, if you dont plan for your retirement, no one else will.

Just to add to what he meant with that statement - he was saying don't do "1" thing (i.e. invest) to make money, he felt everybody has 2 assets:

1) any cash you have to invest
2) you or your ability to go out and make more cash.

Put your money in something that you have looked into and let it work for you earning more money. At the same time, you go do something else to work to earn more money. If you spend all your time managing your money (i.e. frequent stock trading, market watching. etc) and are giving up that second cash generating engine, at that point, you should make that your full time job so you know enough to make it worth your while to forego that other revenue stream.
 

LargeOrangeFont

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As a "small business" owner. I don't have the luxury of much of anything getting back from my employer ;) but my normal Roth IRA, 401K, that I am able to put in every year without being taxed I do.


I use the stock market as my savings account, (No brokers, No fees paid only when I purchase stock). so when I have enough dollars, I can use it to purchase real estate with 20-40% down. (I am conservative when it comes to buying real estate and time the market fairly well).

Here's my current stock holdings and have held and added to frequently. On my own.

View attachment 628635 View attachment 628636

If all things equal, I Would have to have 2-3 "earned" millions in my stock account to pay me an average of 5-6k a month to sustain our current livelihood. (with no mortgage due). The only problem is that it is more volatile then real estate long term. What I mean is. Rent doesn't change every day. Stocks can and do. (If by any means, you think I am wrong, I don't mean to be an expert, please clarify if I am seeing this wrong).

My goal is to have 3 properties paid off between the next 3-5 years. This can almost guarantee me an income of 5-6k a month with less then the 2-3 "earned" millions which I would need to get the same result with less volatility in the stock market. (mortgage after your initial down payment is paid by a renter).

So realistically speaking, I'm invested in 3 properties at about 120-160k out of pocket to try to get the same result as someone with 2-3 million in the stock market. I'm solely basing this off of 3-4% gain a year in the stock market. (no risky stuff).

This is just my two cents and what I have worked on. I don't bat for the grand slams or the home runs. I simply take base hits when available. I am currently sitting on the sidelines for the real estate to tank so the Nordstroms half yearly sale can start up again.


This is kinda my strategy. I have both investments, 401k and rentals. My rentals are in effect my kids college fund and I will use them to cash flow college. I want to have them paid for in around 10 years, and also pick up another multi family property or two. After the kids are out of college I plan on using the income from them for retirement. I am planning on needing 10k-15k income per month in retirement as a combo of rental income, and funds from retirement accounts/investments. So I am working towards that goal. Provided my savings and rental income trajectory continues, I’m more than half way to my retirement income goals.

I also want to transition my current home to a rental, probably around retirement as well so I will need to also have enough for a down payment or sell a property somewhere down the line.
 

LargeOrangeFont

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Just to add to what he meant with that statement - he was saying don't do "1" thing (i.e. invest) to make money, he felt everybody has 2 assets:

1) any cash you have to invest
2) you or your ability to go out and make more cash.

Put your money in something that you have looked into and let it work for you earning more money. At the same time, you go do something else to work to earn more money. If you spend all your time managing your money (i.e. frequent stock trading, market watching. etc) and are giving up that second cash generating engine, at that point, you should make that your full time job so you know enough to make it worth your while to forego that other revenue stream.

Spot on.
 

Raffit78

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This is kinda my strategy. I have both investments, 401k and rentals. My rentals are in effect my kids college fund and I will use them to cash flow college. I want to have them paid for in around 10 years, and also pick up another multi family property or two. After the kids are out of college I plan on using the income from them for retirement. I am planning on needing 10k-15k income per month in retirement as a combo of rental income, and funds from retirement accounts/investments. So I am working towards that goal. Provided my savings and rental income trajectory continues, I’m more than half way to my retirement income goals.

I also want to transition my current home to a rental, probably around retirement as well so I will need to also have enough for a down payment or sell a property somewhere down the line.


I think 10k-15k a month would be outstanding. I just don't know how much money I would have to have in 401k and Roth IRA to really get another 6k a month. I look at it as, 2-3 properties rented approximately 2k a month let's just say 6k a month total. How much more money would you need in all other investments to produce another 6-8k a month? You pick up a few more rentals get it up to 10k a month, then maybe 4k from all other sources? I still think it's extremely hard to pull 4k a month from other sources without liquidating. I dunno, I don't have the answer.
 

HB2Havasu

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For those of you that are self employed, how many of you are using a SEP (Simple Employment Pension) ? My wife who is self employed has been saving a ton on pre-tax income the last 3 years. It’s a great tool IMO !
 

LargeOrangeFont

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I think 10k-15k a month would be outstanding. I just don't know how much money I would have to have in 401k and Roth IRA to really get another 6k a month. I look at it as, 2-3 properties rented approximately 2k a month let's just say 6k a month total. How much more money would you need in all other investments to produce another 6-8k a month? You pick up a few more rentals get it up to 10k a month, then maybe 4k from all other sources? I still think it's extremely hard to pull 4k a month from other sources without liquidating. I dunno, I don't have the answer.


Also rents will increase, which is obviously works in your favor.

Realistically I’m 25 years from retirement, rents will probably go up 50-75% in that time period. So a property for me that is bringing in $1700 month today, will be bringing over $2800 (66% increase) by the time I am ready to retire.


In your example, you’d probably need $ 1.5M invested to make ~$6k per month, if you could make 5% a year on it. My investment target is to be close to $2M by retirement.

To your point, there is no good answer other than finding a balance that lets you enjoy life today while ensuring you have a steady stream of income in retirement. As Sirbob mentioned, while working you are the engine feeding your investments. If you just rely on your returns, without continuing to invest, it will hard to be successful.
 

Xring01

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This is all great info, different strategy's for different times in life, different goals.

With regards to one of the Stocks I own, MU....

MU reports earnings on Mar 22, Thurs. Some of the analysts reports that if they meet/exceed earnings they will go up 9%, if they miss earnings they will go down 9%.

I am still bullish on MU, I believe they will meet or exceed earnings, I also think they will go up about 5%, if they meet earnings, and could go alot higher if the y exceed earnings. Why, they have a PE Ratio of 9, When they should be at 17 or more...

But thats my opinion.
 

Xring01

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As a "small business" owner. I don't have the luxury of much of anything getting back from my employer ;) but my normal Roth IRA, 401K, that I am able to put in every year without being taxed I do.


I use the stock market as my savings account, (No brokers, No fees paid only when I purchase stock). so when I have enough dollars, I can use it to purchase real estate with 20-40% down. (I am conservative when it comes to buying real estate and time the market fairly well).

Here's my current stock holdings and have held and added to frequently. On my own.

View attachment 628635 View attachment 628636

If all things equal, I Would have to have 2-3 "earned" millions in my stock account to pay me an average of 5-6k a month to sustain our current livelihood. (with no mortgage due). The only problem is that it is more volatile then real estate long term. What I mean is. Rent doesn't change every day. Stocks can and do. (If by any means, you think I am wrong, I don't mean to be an expert, please clarify if I am seeing this wrong).

My goal is to have 3 properties paid off between the next 3-5 years. This can almost guarantee me an income of 5-6k a month with less then the 2-3 "earned" millions which I would need to get the same result with less volatility in the stock market. (mortgage after your initial down payment is paid by a renter).

So realistically speaking, I'm invested in 3 properties at about 120-160k out of pocket to try to get the same result as someone with 2-3 million in the stock market. I'm solely basing this off of 3-4% gain a year in the stock market. (no risky stuff).

This is just my two cents and what I have worked on. I don't bat for the grand slams or the home runs. I simply take base hits when available. I am currently sitting on the sidelines for the real estate to tank so the Nordstroms half yearly sale can start up again.

Rafit,
With regards to the stocks that you stated you own at the moment. The majority of them I would hold, on a couple of others.

I would recommend that you sell T - AT&T... I am not a fan, I think you can get a better ROI than T. I think Verizon is better, but Cord Cutting, is taking that sector down.

MAT - SELL, SELL SELL... Toy R Us, Closing/Bankrupt will take that entire sector down. Its has alot more downside potential in the short term. Better to get out now, if you truly believe in it, re enter at a lower buy point... I am not a believer.

CVX, BP, - again, I do no like the oil and gas sector at the moment, I do not own anything in that sector, because I think other sectors have a better chance of higher returns..

THe above is just my opinion. I may be wrong.

My goal for this entire thread is sharing ideas/opinions. Which may save someone from losing some $$$ or best case making more $$$.

Back to my strategy:
I focus on Sectors with the best upside, buy the best of the breed of that sector. Ride it as long as I can.

Another strategy I use, that I have not shared yet. Is buying speci fic stocks that are priced very low with huge upside, (Hint - MU with a PE of 6 when I bought it) or stocks that got punished for screwing up.. Buy Low/Sell High. (Hint - Owned BAC when it got pushed down to 5, Wells Fargo after its screw up, Equifax, F, on and on and on....
 

Xring01

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I have posted on alot of my success's... Lets talk about failures, or better stated, learning opportunity... my favorite analogy, STUPID TAX...

Yes I have learned alot from my failures.
Way back when, I owned Apple. Had a trailing stop loss on it. For example... My average cost per share was $80, and its trading at $100, I think I had a tight stop loss on it at $93. I was super busy at work and wasnt truly paying any attention at all for a period of time... Anyway months later Apple is trading at $118, and I am patting my self on the back. Log into my account, and discovered that a couple months prior. The intra day of Apple went below $93, but closed at $95. My stop loss triggered. Protected my gains to that point. But I didnt get the profit from to $118... Why, I had those emails going to a junk email account, that i didnt check. Or I would have caught it, and probably re entered...

More recently
SQ - got in at $27ish it quickly went up. Market was bounceing all over the place. Intra day it was go all over the place. Set a super tight stop loss to protect my profit, it sold at $29... Made my $$$. Guess where its at today.. $57... Yep... $57,,, I protected a short term gain, but lost a long term.

TAL - See the above... got in at $29, sold for a good profit around $35, and that bitch is at $41...

I have been waiting for SQ and TAL to pull back so I can get back in... UGGGG...

Best Lessons Learned I have:
AMZN: wow, learned a very valuable lesson on that one. In my old strategy, I never paid 52 week high for any stock. Nope, Wait for a pull back... Value buyer, must get a 10% discount. Well I decided it was time to buy AMZN at $400... Not paying 52 week high, wait,,,, it hits $500,,, Me being so smart, thinking its has to pull back, $600, WTF really, $700 Seriously...
My entry point for AMZN was around $750... YEP.. I can admit that NOW....
Some stocks are worth paying the 52 week high for. Not all, but some.

Yes, I have picked loser stocks over the years. Westport Innovations, alternative powered forklifts, and many others. But I learned to dollar cost average, and know when to admit a Loser is a Loser and Cut your loss's. Move on to the next one.
 
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Xring01

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Lets get some more guys sharing info on this..
I have admitted to you guys my strategy, the reason why.
My success's, and my failures.

If you guys dont chime, then we can just let this thread die..

Or we can continue it, and learn from one another.
 
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