Is ultra still in business?

[ServiceCall$]

Yes. I pay people because I can go to work and make more than it costs me to have the work done (basic economics) plus those that do it every day are much more efficient at it then I am. My self worth is not wrapped up in whether I built my boat or not. It's much more impressive the number of employees that collect a check every week, all my vendors being paid, work lined up and not having to worry about scamming one person to complete someone else's project because I misappropriated the funds from one customer to another. [emoji6] if you believe any different than YOU sir are the uneducated one. [emoji107]

What thriving successful west coast boat building company do you run again??

When it comes to running a business successfully, you would be way off base calling me uneducated [emoji6] the basic concept of "business" doesn't change depending on the type of business. Customer pays you for something you provide said thing. This rule applies regardless of type of business. Just because the norm is to rob Peter to pay Paul....DOESN'T MAKE IT RIGHT!! Properly capitalize your business, don't run a Ponzi scheme using one person's money to make another person whole.

Let's take Nordic for example. Do you think they are collecting from one customer to finish another? Or do you think they are a properly capitalized business that runs like a "business" and not a hobby?

I would agree!

 

[AzGeo]

There is no sense in trying to discuss it with you .

I'm retired, but if you care to look at older NADA price guides, Finish Line Boats .

Started repairing and rigging boats in 1969, sold a few new boats as "home built", got my HIN code "FNI" in late 1981, and designed, built, raced, repaired boats as my business until I retired here in Havasu . (we also did some special effects work too)

Never borrowed money, never needed flooring, thru thick and thin I always owned what you saw on display .

I still sell and rig boats for fun, even today . I still have my code FNI, and I still like working on boats .

When I think back over the past 40 years, I can think of a number of "well known boat brand names" that have gone out of business due to "hard times", "materials failures", "law suits", "injures/ deaths", etc .

Some were "shoestring businesses", but plenty of others were not .

As I have stated before, I don't know the details on this particular build, but my timeline has a 90 day limit as to progress, and there is something wrong (both buyer and builder) for this to drag on for so long .

Having worked for large and small companies, then taking my "hobby" and turning it into a full time business, I will always say; "there is no other business like the west coast custom boat building business" ............

 

[BHC Vic]

There is no sense in trying to discuss it with you .

I'm retired, but if you care to look at older NADA price guides, Finish Line Boats .

Started repairing and rigging boats in 1969, sold a few new boats as "home built", got my HIN code "FNI" in late 1981, and designed, built, raced, repaired boats as my business until I retired here in Havasu . (we also did some special effects work too)

Never borrowed money, never needed flooring, thru thick and thin I always owned what you saw on display .

I still sell and rig boats for fun, even today . I still have my code FNI, and I still like working on boats .

When I think back over the past 40 years, I can think of a number of "well known boat brand names" that have gone out of business due to "hard times", "materials failures", "law suits", "injures/ deaths", etc .

Some were "shoestring businesses", but plenty of others were not .

As I have stated before, I don't know the details on this particular build, but my timeline has a 90 day limit as to progress, and there is something wrong (both buyer and builder) for this to drag on for so long .

Having worked for large and small companies, then taking my "hobby" and turning it into a full time business, I will always say; "there is no other business like the west coast custom boat building business" ............

I wouldn?t waste my time. You have forgotten more about boats and the industry than most guys will ever know. I can think of a few rebuilds that took way too long. I can think of one that?s still going.

 

[Heylam]

Having worked for large and small companies, then taking my "hobby" and turning it into a full time business, I will always say; "there is no other business like the west coast custom boat building business" ............

There is a good reason for that. It is a terrible business model.

 

[BHC Vic]

Thread on rw is going crazy

 

[WildWilly]

Thread on rw is going crazy

Yea this one is taking a nasty turn to say the least. I'm sure there are the "2 sides to a story" but not sure how another side could explain this one away.

 

[NicPaus]

They starting to surface like the OCM ordeal. Rusty will probably end up hiding with Jason in Costa Rica. Stripped the 28 when owner said he would have someone else finish. I hope the op that started this thread has recovered his hull and whatever else is left.

 

[BHC Vic]

They starting to surface like the OCM ordeal. Rusty will probably end up hiding with Jason in Costa Rica. Stripped the 28 when owner said he would have someone else finish. I hope the op that started this thread has recovered his hull and whatever else is left.

Yea that?s dirty. That?s more than bad luck or hard times. Asking for one more month to finish, knowing you?re never going to finish, but use that month to strip it and and use the parts else where. That?s a dirty burger

 

[NicPaus]

Yea that?s dirty. That?s more than bad luck or hard times. Asking for one more month to finish, knowing you?re never going to finish, but use that month to strip it and and use the parts else where. That?s a dirty burger

Pulling parts from paid in full boats to put on boats that are owed on I imagine. Ultimate robbing Peter to pay Paul.

 

[Singleton]

Pulling parts from paid in full boats to put on boats that are owed on I imagine. Ultimate robbing Peter to pay Paul.

Don?t assume the boats in question are paid in full. I know a few past issues were associated with unpaid change orders that the customers thought were included in original quoted price and differences and issues arose when it came time to settle on those changes

 

[AzGeo]

There is a good reason for that. It is a terrible business model.

I can order from any of my old vendors, get dealer/wholesale pricing, and write a check .

I always paid my bills, and treated my customers right . (however some people may never be satisfied)

You guys don't know how many BRAND NAMES have been close to folding up, over the years .

 

[NicPaus]

Don?t assume the boats in question are paid in full. I know a few past issues were associated with unpaid change orders that the customers thought were included in original quoted price and differences and issues arose when it came time to settle on those changes

He stated he has paid $128K for the 28 referring to.

Sounds like on those instances maybe the details were not in writing. I have had similar issues as a GC and I end up eating it. I just had a issue where appliances were not delivered like scheduled. I bought another set to make sure I was complete for open house. The realtor had another realtor do open house and they forgot to mention the appliances were temporary until the stainless ones get delivered. Buyer liked the Black stainless and claimed bait and switch. Cost me $3K but Buyer seller and agents happy. Lesson learned on my part.

 

[Singleton]

He stated he has paid $128K for the 28 referring to.

Sounds like on those instances maybe the details were not in writing. I have had similar issues as a GC and I end up eating it. I just had a issue where appliances were not delivered like scheduled. I bought another set to make sure I was complete for open house. The realtor had another realtor do open house and they forgot to mention the appliances were temporary until the stainless ones get delivered. Buyer liked the Black stainless and claimed bait and switch. Cost me $3K but Buyer seller and agents happy. Lesson learned on my part.

128k does not get you a completed 28. 30-40k missing in that price, based on the quote I got from Rusty a couple years ago.

 

[AzGeo]

Don?t assume the boats in question are paid in full. I know a few past issues were associated with unpaid change orders that the customers thought were included in original quoted price and differences and issues arose when it came time to settle on those changes

Now people are comparing this to "other shady events", and none of us knows the true facts here .

When the owner started this thread I offered to "go have a look", to first determine if the company was still in business and their doors were open . If I could find the boat, look it over and let him know . That's what I did .

Four pages later we have a lot of "input", and not a direct word from any of the party's , while other similar incidents are being thrown into the mix .

The boat I'm referring to is a 23' deck boat (grey, blue, and green), which was shown in some photos on this thread . I know nothing of any other boats in a similar situation .

Even if you don't believe my comments on being in the west coast boat business, you should believe this; ALWAYS get EVERYTHING in WRITING, on a company logo invoice . Get all the information, all the accessories and a "target delivery date", with all your payments written on all copies of the contract/invoice .

I stated "target delivery date" because problems always come up, especially when the buyer wants to go on vacation on a certain day ..................

 

[Cole Trickle]

128k does not get you a completed 28. 30-40k missing in that price, based on the quote I got from Rusty a couple years ago.

128k got you a lot more three years ago then it does now. I can?t imagine rusty is at a position where they can charge Howard or Eliminator pricing on a new deck build.

Sucks for the client and the ultra brand.

 

[Singleton]

128k got you a lot more three years ago then it does now. I can?t imagine rusty is at a position where they can charge Howard or Eliminator pricing on a new deck build.

Sucks for the client and the ultra brand.

I agree with the negative for the customer and Ultra. Read on another site that Rusty has stopped returning JW?s calls so you know something is off.

I have supported Rusty for years, but my boat is going elsewhere for a gel repair this year.

 

[AEA]

................... Properly capitalize your business, don't run a Ponzi scheme using one person's money to make another person whole................[/QUOTE]

This..........

 

[jett]

Please allow me to offer notes from my own days of "small boat building", back in California .

First, the boat business has it's "ups and downs" of seasons and years , some customers are GREAT to work with, some not so much .

Not all boat business owners are like what we saw at OCM, most are people who love boats and boating, and sometimes "hit a sandbar" while serving their customers . 'Shit happens" .

Often the small shop owner will pay the rent and or employees, before he buys more materials for a new build or large repair . He NEEDS the building (utilities) and the workers, to complete the work, so they are the last to feel the pain of a "slow business cycle", even though the owner could be hounded by a "dry period" .

IF your project is more than 90 days past due, or behind build progress by that timeline, you should connect with a local "friend" and have them relay "photos, progress reports, and builder comments" .

I would not start attacking anyone without good cause, this company's owner may have; family, health, or other unknown problems, outside of his boat business .

When my mom was dying of cancer, the wife and I did "tag team hospice" for her, for months . Often customers would "demand to speak with me", but I was unavailable at the time .

Does any of this "dismiss" the fact that any of us could have $100K invested here, not at all .

Due diligence, faith in God, and a friend who can go to the shop and report, are your friends .

I can tell you that back in the late 1980's I was ordering "solid drive line covers" from a shop who was/is well known . I ordered 4 different sets for a race boat, and 3 boats I was rigging for Howard Brown . I had used him in the past .

The vendor "lied" every time I called (next week, check's in the mail ,bla bla bla) and strung me along for more than 60 days (lucky I ordered way ahead). He NEVER produced one of the parts I ordered, and I had to "work all night, a number of nights" to build my own drive line covers . One more in "the learning curve" for me .

I still don't know what his problem was, but the LIES set me straight on his business practices .

I never spoke with him or his shop again, and he is still in business ...........

Sometimes HONEST PEOPLE STRUGGLE, get the truth, and work with them .

If I can help you in any manner, please PM me .

It's been three years 10000 down and nothing the only pic I got was the day he had a flat tire and couldn't build my boat that day?

 

[FreeBird236]

It's been three years 10000 down and nothing the only pic I got was the day he had a flat tire and couldn't build my boat that day?

Hopefully this gets the exposure you need to get some action. Is this Ultra you're talking about?

 

[jett]

Yes Rusty at ultra ,I have been in the biz for 30 plus years and did deals with Tom Papp and dozens of other players on the west coast,all without a hitch.
This is very disappointing I have people, friends and customers that depend on me and my word ..............I WILL NOT LET THEM DOWN

It's time for Rusty to shit or get of the pot

 

[jett]

It doesn't take three year to fix a flat tire!

 

[Singleton]

It's been three years 10000 down and nothing the only pic I got was the day he had a flat tire and couldn't build my boat that day?

Are you financing or paying cash (milestone payments)?

 

[jett]

cash

 

[Singleton]

cash

Do you have an executed build agreement in place that documents required payments due and when (before / at completion of build phases)?

I know folks were requiring date ranges be added to that document and clauses for a discount to be granted if Ultra did not hold up their end of the agreement.

I would not do any business with Rusty unless I had an executed agreement in place that held both parties accountable (dates not meet / payments not received). Without that type of agreement you have no legal recourse.

 

[jett]

Yep now lets pay for a bunch of lawyer crap and still not get the boat or money back

 

[JFMFG]

I’d have Tahiti build you one

 

[Goodtime$]

I’d have Tahiti build you one

Thanks Zach,
We Tahiti-Editioned this 23 shadow deck for the customer. Its leaving for Florida next week. New floors got the gator step treatment. Engine got cleaned up and rolling EAST BOUND AND DOWN......

 

[gmouf]

Can't wait to finally get it. It's been a lengthy process. Rusty may know how build a boat, but knows nothing about running a business. I would steer clear. Thank you Todd for cleaning up his mess

 

[milkmoney]

When I drove by today I look over and looked like a normal business operating with boats in the yard and fares open etc....

Weird shit man [emoji39][emoji202]

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk

 

[guest hs]

I sure wish someone reliable would bring this company back to life. They had some really nice looking boats!

 

[riverroyal]

Off to the races with this again....I hear they build magics now

 

[jett]

Does anyone know where the old lightning /Tom Papp molds even are ?

 

[Singleton]

Does anyone know where the old lightning /Tom Papp molds even are ?

Depends on what Lighting your referring to. Ultra back in the late 90’s early 2000’s had a Lightning lineup. Limited colors and had to pick from standard gel designs. Options were limited as well. The Lightning were Ultra molds just another name due to limited options / choices a customer could do.

 

[Gelcoater]

Does anyone know where the old lightning /Tom Papp molds even are ?

I want to say Ultra had the 21 deck boat version of the 21???
And the 19 I’m pretty sure. Not sure about the 21?

If you’re just interested in building a 19 tunnel, well?
Eliminator has one
I’m sure it’s more expensive than options available, I’m positive of it. But, you won’t know unless you ask someone
And, someone authorized to give you a legit out the door price.
GS Marine in Corona sells a version of the same hull, and I’d imagine his price will beat Eliminator’s. I’d bet on it
I’m pretty sure (not 100% but at least 90) Shockwave does the glass and gel work for them, so you know the guys doing the glass are seasoned vets.

Other than that?
Nordic? Perhaps? I dunno?
Is the CP gullwung hull being built?
I want to say Cheetah was building a variant of it?
@2FORCEFULL had one at some point. He might have some input for you.

 

[Goodtime$]

We have the 21 deck tools TPR. The tool is old and hard to use. I’m kinda over it and going to return it to ultra.
Focus on the 23 decks for 2019

 

[jett]

I had a text conversation with Rusty today sounds like he is still trying to get caught up, I really hope this works out I have built one of each of this boat line back when Tom Papp and Doug Houington had them numbered as lightning custom boats ...yes I'm that old lol,the last one I rigged from scratch was a 19 stelth carbon kevlar .....Great boat hauls ass and NOT a flexy flyer for only weighing 350 lbs empty .
This is what I want from Rusty a 500-650 lbs 21 foot hard deck pickle fork carbon kevlar vinyl layup hull and deck they called it a phantom back in the day.
All white gel no holes ,just a good clean platform to build another bad ass jet boat.
We have had 10,000.00 down in the wind for THREE years
With the price of resin and cloth right now its only around 5500.00 in materials
Shit man the first bare hull I ever bought back in 85 was only 5000 with five colors of gel and a five degree mersh intake glued in with a bottom Doug built that one and its still lives in the neighbor hood and still looks and runs great.

PIECE

 

[jett]

Well it looks like I'm back in the wind again no answer no reply ...........Rusty is watching he needs to make this right !

 

[guest hs]

I want to say Ultra had the 21 deck boat version of the 21???
And the 19 I’m pretty sure. Not sure about the 21?

If you’re just interested in building a 19 tunnel, well?
Eliminator has one
I’m sure it’s more expensive than options available, I’m positive of it. But, you won’t know unless you ask someone
And, someone authorized to give you a legit out the door price.
GS Marine in Corona sells a version of the same hull, and I’d imagine his price will beat Eliminator’s. I’d bet on it
I’m pretty sure (not 100% but at least 90) Shockwave does the glass and gel work for them, so you know the guys doing the glass are seasoned vets.

Other than that?
Nordic? Perhaps? I dunno?
Is the CP gullwung hull being built?
I want to say Cheetah was building a variant of it?
@2FORCEFULL had one at some point. He might have some input for you.

Advantage lays up all the CP Gullwings.

 

[riverroyal]

You gave 10k three years ago and no action to date? Is there more to the story? Why not drive and see him?

 

[jett]

You gave 10k three years ago and no action to date? Is there more to the story? Why not drive and see him?

i live in ohio and have job lol i will fly out and bring my customer ,we have been very patient to say the least........Tom Papp has to be rolling in his grave

 

[jett]

Still nothing positive to report!

 

[WildWilly]

probably shifted focus to laying up Magics

 

[Backlash]

I always loved the TPR 19. That is/was the best looking 19 out there. TP built one years ago that had a bunch of different shades of dove gray in the gel. If I remember, it was green and gray. It was just a bitchen looking boat. Would love to see someone get ahold of the molds and bring them back to life.

 

[Skinny Tire AH]

I always loved the TPR 19. That is/was the best looking 19 out there. TP built one years ago that had a bunch of different shades of dove gray in the gel. If I remember, it was green and gray. It was just a bitchen looking boat. Would love to see someone get ahold of the molds and bring them back to life.

I'm not 100% certain of the details but Dan Nelson has the TPR 19?? He rigged a Bitz for me and was laying some of those up. He made some deck changes and calls it the Predator hull? Again, not certain its the TPR.

 

[rivrrts429]

I'm not 100% certain of the details but Dan Nelson has the TPR 19?? He rigged a Bitz for me and was laying some of those up. He made some deck changes and calls it the Predator hull? Again, not certain its the TPR.

Are you sure those aren’t the Cheyenne molds Dan was laying up as a Predator?

I thought the Papp/ultra molds went to Shoemaker? I don’t remember the Ultra 19’s looking like the Predators.

 

[Skinny Tire AH]

Are you sure those aren’t the Cheyenne molds Dan was laying up as a Predator?

I thought the Papp/ultra molds went to Shoemaker? I don’t remember the Ultra 19’s looking like the Predators.

No, I'm not sure at all. As matter of fact, now that you say that I think you're right. Thats why I stated I wasn't 100 percent. You just dig proving me wrong.

I know that Predator is a bad ass 19. I want one.

 

[Gelcoater]

No, I'm not sure at all. As matter of fact, now that you say that I think you're right. Thats why I stated I wasn't 100 percent. You just dig proving me wrong.

I know that Predator is a bad ass 19. I want one.

 

[Skinny Tire AH]

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