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School me on Bitcoin

Constant840

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Read it hit almost $8k for 1 coin today. Since dropped to $7800.

Without having to read about it... can anyone tell me what the hell is it?? Is it a smart investment? I know it has been said currency should be part of any portfolio, but does this really count?
 

Waffles

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It's a crypto currency backed by......nothing. Some say it was a good investment when it initially went live considering where prices are at now but again, it's not backed by anything so it could all disappear in a blink of an eye. I'll still to buying a couple of ounces of silver a month
 

buck35

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I live in the cheapest county powerwise in the country. Bitcoin miners are everywhere, and some are big time operations. I keep asking people to explaine it to me. I don't get it...
 

DRYHEAT

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Voodoo magic and fairy dust. J/k
I would like to understand it, but the few people that I’ve asked about it get to a certain point and are stumped. So I’ll sit back with my bucket of popcorn and watch this thread to see if anybody can come up with A reasonable explanation.:)
 

wet hull

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My tech buddy, total nerd for this crap! He agrees that there is no backing to it like others have stated. It could just disappear at any point. On the flip side as to why he would invest is the "Black Market Goods". This digital currency allows for you to buy and sell illegal goods as he puts it. As long as this market exists, bitcoin will be around. I will not be buying.
 

GRADS

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There's a bunch of videos on youtube about what it is. Basically people take their computers and "mine" for Bitcoin. Essentially the computers are solving mathematical equations and when they do they get bitcoins. It's a long slow process and sometimes the energy consumption of your computer out ways how much bitcoin you mine.

With that said I have invested on and off in it and have made some money...but also lost some. In my opinion it's a sketchy investment at best and I never invest more in it than I can afford to lose. You could literally wake up tomorrow and have nothing to show for your investment.....with that said though some "experts are saying one bitcoin could go as high as $25,000 in the near future. (currently $7000+). If you're interested in investing look at the stock ticker GBTC or a super sketchy one BTSC
 
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78Southwind

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I would look at it simply like a digital version of gold. It is used as a currency. There is a limited supply of it and it cost money to mine (create). Therefore, as long as there is demand for it with a limited supply it will appreciate. It should be taxed similar to gold as well. What really sets it apart from gold is the technology behind it. The problem and what keeps me away from it is that sooner or later the US will find a way to regulate it. Once that happens it may be out of favor and the demand will decrease. If I were to personally put money into it, I would only use gambling money (money I can afford to lose). I personally like to invest in things that appreciate but also can provide dividends.
 
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Waffles

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Voodoo magic and fairy dust. J/k
I would like to understand it, but the few people that I’ve asked about it get to a certain point and are stumped. So I’ll sit back with my bucket of popcorn and watch this thread to see if anybody can come up with A reasonable explanation.:)
Honestly, its something that can't be easily explained. It's a very complex system that's suppose to be hack and fool proof with it's 256 bit hash algorithm.....and it is in a sense...
But again, the biggest problem with Btc is that it isn't backed by anything... just hopes and dreams
 

Racey

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It's a decentralized (no central authority or system in control) secure (involves mathematical rules that cannot be broken) system to facilitate transactions.

The system works as an ongoing account ledger no different from a bank ledger, with one major except, no transactions from the past can be manipulated (account values), once they are processed they are locked in stone. This is done through a form of cryptography that joins all prior transactions together with the newest transactions with a secure mathematical validation. (if someone tried to manipulate a previous record, the math function fails and invalidates). This is the core of bitcoin technology, it's called Block Chain, and huge players like IBM and others are now taking this technology to use as a means of secure record keeping.

The system works like any kind of online payment system, you enter a receivers address, and send them the amount of Bitcoin.

People keep saying that "it's not backed by anything", or "it's a ponzi scheme" have very closed minds about economics. The paper money in your wallet isn't backed by anything, if you trade in the precious metals market those paper certificates aren't backed by anything either (orders of magnitude more gold is owned on paper than what physically exists). All of those things have value because of the value someone else is willing to pay for it, period. And the same goes for bitcoin.

Bitcoin and systems like it have massive practical value over other means of currency because:
1) No government, corporation, or agency has any control over the system.
2) The system is secured by an open source encryption that is unbreakable by any human technology and amount of processing power now or in the distant future.
3) Transactions can be made without going through any central authority, and sums ranging from pennies, to millions of dollars can be accessed from anywhere in the world with only 2 things, an internet connection, and the private key (a 64 character hex number).
4) Accounts are completely anonymous.


Who knows where this ends, but it's not coming any time soon. and the underlying technology will be used in a multitude of systems

 

Waffles

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It's a decentralized (no central authority or system in control) secure (involves mathematical rules that cannot be broken) system to facilitate transactions.

The system works as an ongoing account ledger no different from a bank ledger, with one major except, no transactions from the past can be manipulated (account values), once they are processed they are locked in stone. This is done through a form of cryptography that joins all prior transactions together with the newest transactions with a secure mathematical validation. (if someone tried to manipulate a previous record, the math function fails and invalidates). This is the core of bitcoin technology, it's called Block Chain, and huge players like IBM and others are now taking this technology to use as a means of secure record keeping.

The system works like any kind of online payment system, you enter a receivers address, and send them the amount of Bitcoin.

People keep saying that "it's not backed by anything", or "it's a ponzi scheme" have very closed minds about economics. The paper money in your wallet isn't backed by anything, if you trade in the precious metals market those paper certificates aren't backed by anything either (orders of magnitude more gold is owned on paper than what physically exists). All of those things have value because of the value someone else is willing to pay for it, period. And the same goes for bitcoin.

Bitcoin and systems like it have massive practical value over other means of currency because:
1) No government, corporation, or agency has any control over the system.
2) The system is secured by an open source encryption that is unbreakable by any human technology and amount of processing power now or in the distant future.
3) Transactions can be made without going through any central authority, and sums ranging from pennies, to millions of dollars can be accessed from anywhere in the world with only 2 things, an internet connection, and the private key (a 64 character hex number).
4) Accounts are completely anonymous.


Who knows where this ends, but it's not coming any time soon. and the underlying technology will be used in a multitude of systems

It's not being closed minded, it's being a realist. And yes, our dollar is backed by something....oil. Do you think the us likes to go to war because they have nothing else to do? Do you thing the Saudi purge that's been going on is a coincidence?The petrodollar isn't something out of a Dr Seuss book. It's what supports the entire us economy.

When it comes to Bitcoin, the only thing giving it any value is currency being poured into it. That's it. You need a commodity to give currency any value. It's been like that since the beginning of time and will continue to be until the end of time. We might not be on the gold standard anymore but there's a reason nation's like the us France Germany Italy and China have huge gold reserves. That's the difference between a commodity like gold and Bitcoin.

The only ones making real money are miners. And I'm not talking about your diy Bitcoin miner that does this recreationally on their 2-4k miner......I'm talking about the ones that have 3...4....5 story warehouses full of machines running 24/7 365.
 

Sleek-Jet

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When originally started, a desk top computer had enough horse power to decrypt a Bitcoin, now it takes a server farm. They system was designed that way. Somewhere I read that there can only be 22 million Bitcoins in circulation and the last one won't be decrypted till sometime next century.

Bitcoin speculation is a classic bubble however. Kind of wish I would have paid more attention 5 or 6 years ago and started "mining" them. :D

Keeping in mind that salt, at one point in history, was the most valuable commodity.
 

Spudsbud

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Just watch CNBC. The biggest money guys in the world. Warren Buffet. Jim Cramer Jamie Diamond and many others, avoid it like the plague. Even the Najarian Bros., the options guys on CNBC wont touch it. go to Vegas, have fun with the money you can afford to lose.
Do not get sucked into the get rich quick crap.
Do not.
 

DRYHEAT

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It seems to me when the technology to affectively deploy and EMP comes to fruition all this electronic currency is going to be a moot point.

I appreciate those of you that have tried to educate me on the subject, but I think it’s hopeless for a Neanderthal like me to understand. Most likely I will be long dead before this becomes mainstream. In the meantime I’ll just keep collecting lead and waiting in my underground bunker. :):rolleyes:
 

hallett21

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A couple weeks back amazon bought domain names that included bitcoin and ethereum.

Like anything need to really do your homework.

I think it's funny that people will call MSM media full of crap and say it has an agenda. But that doesn't apply during the financial segments?
 

H2O

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just google "ponzi scheme" and you'll get the general idea...
 

rivrrts429

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Just watch CNBC. The biggest money guys in the world. Warren Buffet. Jim Cramer Jamie Diamond and many others, avoid it like the plague. Even the Najarian Bros., the options guys on CNBC wont touch it. go to Vegas, have fun with the money you can afford to lose.
Do not get sucked into the get rich quick crap.
Do not.


There’s an equal argument for those groups you listed to be anti bitcoin. Like going to an oil tycoon for investment advice in Tesla.
 

Racey

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Lol when it's at 30k per BTC all the people saying it's a bubble will still be calling it a bubble, Just like they did when it hit $50, $100, $500, $1000, now 3 or 4 years later it at $7500.... :D:D:D:D They see it as a bubble because they dont understand the underlying utility of it. Gold is a store of value, not a useful currency, Difficult to divide, difficult to authenticate purity, can't be used for small fractional purchases, Bitcoin actually is useful as a currency. 1 Bitcoin can be divided into 100,000,000 individual pieces, so the 22Million cap is meaningless from that sense, most purchase made are with fractions of a coin, for example 0.0035 bitcoins is $27 dollars right now.

Bitcoin is not meant to be an investment, that is why these old timer "investors" won't buy it, they don't understand the fundamentals, it's a utility, and early adopters will make money on it as an investment per se. But that's not what it is designed for. When you see the billions that have been invested in adoption, online stores accepting it, brick and motars all around the world, vending machines, etc. There was a point in time where people said "Diner's Club is stupid, who would ever use that", Now in Europe over 90% of all daily purchase are made with CC/EFT, NOT CASH. Bitcoin is going after the CC market, not the investment market.

People that are saying an EMP will be the end of bitcoin, dude an EMP will be the end of life as we know it, because literally everything relies on computers now, Financial, banking, investment, logistics, delivery, medicine, food, your power grid, the pumps that keep the fresh water coming to your homes, Lol when EMP ends bitcoin that will the LEAST of anyone's worries. :D:D:rolleyes::rolleyes:

Hey wicky, if the USD's value is backed by oil, what happens when Saudi, Russia, China, etc decide to stop trading oil in dollars and start using another currency? lol
 
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Sleek-Jet

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It was valued at a thousand or so several months ago. It closed at 8000 yesterday. If that isn't bubble I don't know what is. People are speculating on the value of Bitcoin, that is where the bubble aspect comes in. The big investment banks are building investment vehicles to speculate on it. Anything that can be speculated on is subject to "bubbles" and "crashes".

The "fractions of" aspect make it difficult for laypeople to consider it.
 

Racey

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20 years ago, "the internet is stupid, who would ever buy something without being able to see it in person" :D:D:D Now Jeff Bezos is worth 25 Billion, and everyone else that go in on the ground floor of Amazon are rich AF. Does that mean that because all that money has been made Amazon is now worthless? no, it's because they were early investors/adopters, Amazon has usable utility that means it still have value.

Look, i'm not discounting the idea that bitcoin is subject to a demand drive right now, but if you think that is the only reason it's value is being driven upward you are sadly mistaken. The value is in the usage/utility of it. There are huge investments made by big players in the adoption of the technology for the consumer.

The stock market is driven mainly on speculation, but nobody seriously uses that as justification to brush it off as a scheme. You can't trade a fraction of a stock share for a hamburger during trading hours, let alone 24 hours a day. :p

Like i said, Bitcoin is a utility, not an investment, early adopters get to reap the benefits of profits when that happens, but that isn't the fundamental of it's existence.
 

OldSchoolBoats

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Lol when it's at 30k per BTC all the people saying it's a bubble will still be calling it a bubble, Just like they did when it hit $50, $100, $500, $1000, now 3 or 4 years later it at $7500.... :D:D:D:D They see it as a bubble because they dont understand the underlying utility of it. Gold is a store of value, not a useful currency, Difficult to divide, difficult to authenticate purity, can't be used for small fractional purchases, Bitcoin actually is useful as a currency. 1 Bitcoin can be divided into 100,000,000 individual pieces, so the 22Million cap is meaningless from that sense, most purchase made are with fractions of a coin, for example 0.0035 bitcoins is $27 dollars right now.

Bitcoin is not meant to be an investment, that is why these old timer "investors" won't buy it, they don't understand the fundamentals, it's a utility, and early adopters will make money on it as an investment per se. But that's not what it is designed for. When you see the billions that have been invested in adoption, online stores accepting it, brick and motars all around the world, vending machines, etc. There was a point in time where people said "Diner's Club is stupid, who would ever use that", Now in Europe over 90% of all daily purchase are made with CC/EFT, NOT CASH. Bitcoin is going after the CC market, not the investment market.

People that are saying an EMP will be the end of bitcoin, dude an EMP will be the end of life as we know it, because literally everything relies on computers now, Financial, banking, investment, logistics, delivery, medicine, food, your power grid, the pumps that keep the fresh water coming to your homes, Lol when EMP ends bitcoin that will the LEAST of anyone's worries. :D:D:rolleyes::rolleyes:

Hey wicky, if the USD's value is backed by oil, what happens when Saudi, Russia, China, etc decide to stop trading oil in dollars and start using another currency? lol
Exactly!!!
Racey.....man.....you are one bright dude.

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Yellowboat

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what you really need to know about bit coin...

you can not making any money mining it, too many big players, you can make money buying and selling them( think stock market)

only it is very unpredictable.

the concept has a bunch of great idea, but I am afraid the way it is now, is pretty bad as far as the average person is concered.
 

Racey

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For anyone that wonders "how does someone actually buy something with bitcoin" here is a video of a guy using bitcoin to buy a hard drive from NewEgg.com


The seller generates a payment address and amount, which you enter into your wallet, you press send, (enter your password if you have one) done.

The transaction then enters the network and the signature is validated, the value of coins then shows up in the recievers wallet.
 

j-bone

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I actually thought about this in 2014, but tried to learn what Bitcoin was about and got frustrated. I lost interest and forgot about it. I still have no idea what this crypto crap is, but I'm buying some Bitcoin, Ethereum and Litecoin now. I don't want to wait another 5 yrs and say, "Damn, I wish I bought some back in 2017." Bitcoin in 2014 was under $600, now its approaching $8000. If I bought just $1000 worth, it would be about $13K today. If I strike out, oh well. I'm only using money I can afford to lose.
 

Sleek-Jet

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I'm not saying speculation is a good thing or a bad thing, but the market tends to be very efficient.
20 years ago, "the internet is stupid, who would ever buy something without being able to see it in person" :D:D:D Now Jeff Bezos is worth 25 Billion, and everyone else that go in on the ground floor of Amazon are rich AF. Does that mean that because all that money has been made Amazon is now worthless? no, it's because they were early investors/adopters, Amazon has usable utility that means it still have value.

Look, i'm not discounting the idea that bitcoin is subject to a demand drive right now, but if you think that is the only reason it's value is being driven upward you are sadly mistaken. The value is in the usage/utility of it. There are huge investments made by big players in the adoption of the technology for the consumer.

The stock market is driven mainly on speculation, but nobody seriously uses that as justification to brush it off as a scheme. You can't trade a fraction of a stock share for a hamburger during trading hours, let alone 24 hours a day. :p

Like i said, Bitcoin is a utility, not an investment, early adopters get to reap the benefits of profits when that happens, but that isn't the fundamental of it's existence.

How much is AOL trading for these days? :D

I fail to see where I said that it was of no value or that the only reason of its current valuation is because of an investment bubble. And maybe bubble is the wrong adjective. This is more of a gold rush. And with an sort of "rush" the easy money has been made by the first guys on the mountain, not the army of rabble slogging behind.

Certainly I don't believe it is a scam or a scheme. But it isn't conventional money either.

I'll say this and be done; I don't have any qualms using Bitcoin as a transaction utility, but I wouldn't hold any of it as an investment.
 

boatnam2

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I mess with it a little , basically the same money i would use at bluewater casino, can be manipulated like a month ago when all the investment firms said everyone should dump it asap, only to buy up all kinds a few days later at a way lower price.
 

530RL

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Out of curiosity, how many people in RDP accept bitcoin as a payment for the goods or services they provide a their place of business today?
 

hallett21

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Out of curiosity, how many people in RDP accept bitcoin as a payment for the goods or services they provide a their place of business today?

I would if a client offered.
 

SBMech

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What I don't get is what the computations are for, are they part of the tech? Who gets use out of the processing? Is Bitcoin's value tied to the fact that there are huge farms doing these computations IE computational power?
 

Racey

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What I don't get is what the computations are for, are they part of the tech? Who gets use out of the processing? Is Bitcoin's value tied to the fact that there are huge farms doing these computations IE computational power?

The computations are the largest part of securing the validity of the network, by making the computations very difficult, it means it's extremely difficult (impossible) for someone to brute force their way into controlling the network and therefore the ledger itself with all of the account balances. The network also self adjusts this difficultly level based on the amount of computation power that is in use, it is constantly trying for a target of 10 minutes per solution, if a solution is found in 9, the next block's difficultly is raised, if it takes 11, it is lowered.

The computation is basically based on this:The previous block's hash + pool of pending transactions + random number <= target difficultly value

the mining works by continually trying a new random number in that transaction until the output hash is less than some value determined by the difficulty. Since hash functions are one direction, it's impossible mathematically (at least not known yet by mathematics) to work backwards, so they only way is to keep trying random inputs to get an output.


 
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hallett21

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I would if a client offered.

And exactly how would you do so?

Would depend on the job. Large projects I would stick to checks and wire transfers.

Jobs 10k and under I would take payment in BTC, LTC, or ETH.

I can take payment right off of my phone standing in front of the client. From there I can choose to keep it in a crypto currency or exchange it for USD.

Reason for changing back to USD would be to pay suppliers, sub contractors etc.

Clearly it is still a volatile currency so you could lose 10-20% in a matter of hours.

But your "off the books" when you use it so there's a clear advantage there.
 

Racey

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And exactly how would you do so?

Coinbase and Bitpay both have a merchant account that will lock in a rate for USD if you wish to exchange that minute, you can also choose to keep it in Crypto. If the bill is $4,563.23 you just enter that amount and it will generate a payment address and code for that amount in BTC at locked rate based on live/current offers placed in the exchange (just like the stock market), your customer scans it with their QR and sends the funds, it's as fast a CC in the physical world, and the actual funds transfer is nearly instananeous.
 

C-2

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I've made about 5 payments to private parties using BC, thru Coinbase, and it was never as easy as described. The instant exchange always seems to be off, and you end up sending more BC because the person on the other end will not take less.

The Newegg deal looked seamless, was that with a private wallet on a computer?

I had almost half a coin earlier this year, and thought it was going to tank. So, I sold it and made about $600.

Had I waited...it would be worth $3250.00. FML lol

2017-11-19_19-52-17.png
 

hallett21

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I've made about 5 payments to private parties using BC, thru Coinbase, and it was never as easy as described. The instant exchange always seems to be off, and you end up sending more BC because the person on the other end will not take less.

The Newegg deal looked seamless, was that with a private wallet on a computer?

I had almost half a coin earlier this year, and thought it was going to tank. So, I sold it and made about $600.

Had I waited...it would be worth $3250.00. FML lol

View attachment 603082

I know the BTC transaction times can be long. Have you tried an LTC transaction? They are much faster.
 
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Racey

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I know the BTC transaction times can be long. Have you tried an LTC transaction? They are much faster.

LTC block target is 1 minute instead of 10, so it is faster for sure on verification. BTC transactions can be stalled if you put a 0, or very low TXN fee, nobody in the mining pool will pick those up in their block mining. There are some ongoing measures being discussed now as to how best address that including increasing the max block size.
 

C-2

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LTC block target is 1 minute instead of 10, so it is faster for sure on verification. BTC transactions can be stalled if you put a 0, or very low TXN fee, nobody in the mining pool will pick those up in their block mining. There are some ongoing measures being discussed now as to how best address that including increasing the max block size.

Thanks
 

GRADS

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The two bitcoin stocks I mentioned in post #6 are up 7% and 9% this morning alone.
 

Constant840

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Some good info here.
Thanks everyone. I think I might get me some coin.
 

GRADS

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The two bitcoin stocks I mentioned in post #6 are up 7% and 9% this morning alone.
BTSC is now up 15% for the day.

EDIT: Now 19% as of 12:15 pm
 
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Waffles

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There's so much misinformation being spewd it's unbelievable.

(expected demand+perceived utility) x perceived scarcity =/= value

I'll touch on this a bit more when I get on a desktop lol
 

GRADS

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BTSC up another 14%+ today.
 

Old Texan

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In principle it sounds like trading commodities in the fact it wasn't specifically designed as a speculation investment. Big money can be made on what amounts to luck, and big money can be lost on ignorance of the market.
 

530RL

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In simple speak, it is just another way to pay for something. Another fiat currency just like the dollar, yen or peso. But it is appreciating rapidly relative to other currencies so objectively some people are putting more value on it relative to other currencies. An article from the Economist.

https://www.economist.com/blogs/freeexchange/2017/09/not-so-novel
 
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