Self Driving Cars Are Killing Cyclists!

[ChiliPepperGarage]

Not sure to be concerned or happy!

So supposedly self driving cars are safer than human driven cars. Maybe someday but who knows? Seems one ran over a cyclist.

On the other hand, cyclist crossing the street at night in the dark and it doesn't look like at a cross walk. Would a human driver been able to see them or would they had run over her as well? Did she dart out across the street without looking and not giving the car enough time to stop?

It says the car had a human in it but not in control. Wonder if they saw the cyclist at all?


https://www.tflcar.com/2018/03/uber-suspends-autonomous-testing-news/

 

[pronstar]

*killed a cyclist

We’ll have to see what the cause was. And, more importantly from a societal perspective, where the liability lies.

5,000+ pedestrians and cyclists are killed on our roads each year. And many of these are due to driver error. It’s inevitable that they’ll continue to be hit by driverless cars, but we need to understand if the rate of fatalities will go down, or up?


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[riverroyal]

Maybe they should stay in the bike lane.

 

[RCDave]

Common sense isn't so common

 

[RodnJen]

There is a reason they are testing in AZ.

 

[HALLETT BOY]

It’ll take a few more hundred cyclists deaths before proper software is written to avoid bicycles.

 

[beaverretriever]

Off topic slightly.

I ride every day as well as my wife to work or just for fun. Some of the comments this thread just blow me away.

As riders we always do whatever we can to stay to the right when riding a bike and ride single file when the road is narrow (although most laws allow us to take a whole lane). Sometimes there just isn't enough room on the road without going in to the dirt or debris that can cause flats or damage that requires us to ride more to the left than normal.

In my almost 30 years of driving I have NEVER been held up by a cyclist; NEVER! Even some of the asshats that may ride three wide (which they shouldn't) have never held me up. All I do is wait 10 sec then pass when safe and giving a whole lane. If you are in that big of a fucking hurry, you should have left earlier and planed your day better. Easy.

When I ride to work or just for fun I am putting less wear on our roads yet I still own vehicles and I pay the same taxes (vehicle and otherwise) as anyone. Less vehicles on the road lead to less traffic, less smog, and healthier people. I know for sure the same people that have road rage and hate cyclist, have road rage and hate other drivers as well...

I am not going to lie, I love cycling but hate many cyclist. And I understand some of the hate but we are not all like that. We really appreciate when someone gives us some room on a narrow road and I always give them a wave that we recognize the gave us space (even though it's the law to give us room)

I have seen many of the physiques on here; and riding a bicycle would probably do them some good

 

[Havasteve]

It's news to me that we have driverless vehicles cruising the local roads.

Where's the dash cam footage? Aren't the control systems based on optics?

 

[GRADS]

If they stick to cyclists I think we should make them mandatory in every household in America.

 

[ChiliPepperGarage]

Off topic slightly.

I ride every day as well as my wife to work or just for fun. Some of the comments this thread just blow me away.

As riders we always do whatever we can to stay to the right when riding a bike and ride single file when the road is narrow (although most laws allow us to take a whole lane). Sometimes there just isn't enough room on the road without going in to the dirt or debris that can cause flats or damage that requires us to ride more to the left than normal.

In my almost 30 years of driving I have NEVER been held up by a cyclist; NEVER! Even some of the asshats that may ride three wide (which they shouldn't) have never held me up. All I do is wait 10 sec then pass when safe and giving a whole lane. If you are in that big of a fucking hurry, you should left earlier and plan your day better. Easy.

When I ride to work or just for fun I am putting less wear on our roads yet I still own vehicles yet I pay the same taxes (vehicle and otherwise) as anyone. Less vehicles on the road lead to less traffic, less smog, and healthier people. I know for sure the same people that have road rage and hate cyclist, have road rage and hate other drivers as well...

I am not going to lie, I love cycling but hate many cyclist. We are not all like that though. We really appreciate when someone gives us some room on a narrow road and I always give them a wave that we recognize the gave us space (even though it's the law to give us room)

I have seen many of the physiques on here; and riding a bicycle would probably do them some good

I used to road ride a lot and have family members that ride. I switched to mountain bike riding just so I don't have to deal with car traffic.

We all know, just like boaters, that there are many good and many bad riders. Unfortunately, the bad ones ruin it for the good ones. The worst is when good ones try to educate or correct the bad ones you get nothing but attitude back from them. They are just another group with the entitlement attitude which pisses everyone off and does more harm than good.

I always give cyclists a wide path when passing. I am usually pretty patient with them because I used to ride and know what it is like. However, when you encounter the douchbags riding down the middle of the road holding up traffic and not giving a shit, you blow through stop signs and red lights, etc it is pretty hard to have any sympathy for them.

Any putting in the line of, "don't be in such a hurry" or "you should have left earlier" is not doing you any favors either. It is not that people are in a hurry but rather realistic expectations of open roads. There are impeding traffic laws and if you are driving your car 20MPH in a 65MPH limit road, you are impeding traffic and being completely self centered and disregarding others and could get ticketed for it.

As far as less wear on the roads, well you don't pay taxes on your bicycle so you are riding for free. I have 8 cars and but can only drive one at a time. Does that give me the right to take up 8 lanes when I'm driving one?

That fact is, there are a lot of shitty cyclists with shitty attitudes that piss off car drivers and make them do stupid things. It sucks but that is the reality. These large groups with their militant attitudes are hurting their own cause but they don't seem to care. If cyclists were better at self policing and tried to educate each other as well as try to create car driver awareness programs emphasizing the benefits of cycling then you might see car drivers giving more respect.

I know the respect thing is a two way street but the problem is the cyclist will always be on the losing end of that battle. I wish it were different as I would still be a road rider.

 

[nameisbond]

It’ll take a few more hundred cyclists deaths before proper software is written to avoid bicycles.

The problem is the computers will never be able to be programmed for every scenario and variable. For safe self driving cars they'd need to write their own code and that's impossible. AI will never be possible. The big problem in general the masses are stupid and will think the car is 100% safe in self driving mode. More and more accidents, will kill this technology.

 

[Ziggy]

Considering a recent issue with a mntn biker while on hiking trails I have found a renewed hate towards cyclists. The inconsiderate and entitled attitude is alive and well. Trust me, this guy will have a huge dark cloud of Karma looking over him for a long time, mf'er.

 

[Advantage 1]

If cyclists are out to get exercise, then bear down and do it. Don't ride two wide down PCH and think motorists should bow down to you. If you can ride and hold a conversation, you are not exercising. Do cyclists have the right to ride? Of course, they do. But rolling double down a busy 55 mph road on a summer Saturday morning is probably not the best time. That is reality. Just because you could, does not always mean you should.

I say this because I have come close to running over a cyclist on 2 separate occasions last year. Rolling down from Oceanside to Encinitas. Cyclists need to look over their shoulder before passing another biker in the bike lane. You want to pop out of the bike lane to pass without looking over your shoulder to see me, you are an idiot. I don't change lanes on the freeway blindly... cyclists need to obey the traffic rules as well.

 

[Advantage 1]

Off topic slightly.

In my almost 30 years of driving I have NEVER been held up by a cyclist; NEVER! Even some of the asshats that may ride three wide (which they shouldn't) have never held me up. All I do is wait 10 sec then pass when safe and giving a whole lane. If you are in that big of a fucking hurry, you should have left earlier and planed your day better. Easy.

I have seen many of the physiques on here; and riding a bicycle would probably do them some good

Do you live in Southern California?

 

[beaverretriever]

I always give cyclists a wide path when passing. I am usually pretty patient with them because I used to ride and know what it is like. However, when you encounter the douchbags riding down the middle of the road holding up traffic and not giving a shit, you blow through stop signs and red lights, etc it is pretty hard to have any sympathy for them.

If you're moving slower than traffic, you can still "take the lane." The law says that people who ride bikes must ride as close to the right side of the road as practicable except under the following conditions: when passing, preparing for a left turn, avoiding hazards, if the lane is too narrow to share, or if approaching a place where a right turn is authorized. CVC 21202. Unfortunately, some motorists and even police don't understand cyclists' right to "take the lane."

However I agree that if a cyclist shows complete disregard for others it's understandable why a driver may get upset. As long as a cyclist gives some indication to give space to a driver, the driver should show the same courtesy.

I don't believe cyclist should blow through stop signs as it is dangerous for both the rider and a driver and most don't. Again, a minority. Most cyclist care about living just as you do.

I will admit I have rolled through red lights when it is completely safe to do so. Fact is, the weight of a bicycle and rider will not set off most street sensors to change the light from red to green. Until bicycles have the same perks as as a car or a pedestrian the same rules do not always apply. In most places there is code or a local ordinance that makes riding on a sidewalk illegal so cyclist are left to ride in the road. If the road doesn't have a safe shoulder then the cyclist has to do what they can to stay safe and that sometimes means riding more to the left to keep cars from passing unsafely.

Any putting in the line of, "don't be in such a hurry" or "you should have left earlier" is not doing you any favors either. It is not that people are in a hurry but rather realistic expectations of open roads. There are impeding traffic laws and if you are driving your car 20MPH in a 65MPH limit road, you are impeding traffic and being completely self centered and disregarding others and could get ticketed for it.

If a cyclist is impeding traffic if followed by five or more motor vehicles. The law requires a turnout to the right in such an instance and I agree with this 100%. Otherwise if a law allows a rider to take a full lane to be safe you will have to take that up with your local government. Many times there just isn't enough room to get over far enough to be safe from a steep shoulder or "door zone". If a cyclist is going 10mph or less up a hill, then that makes it even easier for a driver to pass when safe due to speed difference. Anytime I have ever ran into this situation where I was riding and couldn't get over far enough for a car to pass safely such as a long, steep climb, it was only a matter of seconds before there was a spot I could move over to let the car pass legally. I have never in my life held up anyone for more than a few seconds at most.

And yes, I still stick with plan your day better as anyone who can't wait 5 or 10 sec to pass a cyclist, runner, roller blader, whatever has other issues. Like I stated before, in 30 years of driving I have NEVER been held up by a cyclist or group that has made me late or made me feel like they really didn't give a shit. I know it happens, but I have been lucky enough that this has never been a problem.

Having lived in LA, Las Vegas and bike friendly Reno/Tahoe. I have been held up numerous times by auto accidents, bad drivers, and broken down vehicles but I can not think of one time this has happened because of someone on a bicycle. So I really struggle with anyone who says cyclist holds them up on a regular basis as it just doesn't happen very often.

As far as less wear on the roads, well you don't pay taxes on your bicycle so you are riding for free. I have 8 cars and but can only drive one at a time. Does that give me the right to take up 8 lanes when I'm driving one?

NO, I don't ride for free. The entire “cyclists don’t pay road taxes” argument rests on a gigantic myth: that somehow, cyclists are monolithic automatons who do nothing but ride bikes. In this caricature, we are not also business owners and workers, homeowners, consumers and most of the time, car owners who pay all the taxes that fund roads.

Automobile “use taxes,” like registration and gas taxes, go almost entirely toward funding state and federal highway expenses. But the Federal Highway Administration trust fund is busted—the gas tax hasn’t risen since 1993, and since then, the FHA’s purchasing power has dropped 28 percent. By 2007, highway spending exceeded use-related revenues by $600 million a year, according to the Public Interest Research Group.

Total use fees (including tolls) account for only 50.4 percent of all road funding in the US, according the non-profit Tax Foundation. When you consider that the money predominantly goes toward highways, you realize local city and county roads—the ones most used by cyclists when we ride—are barely funded this way. Moreover, the figure itself is misleading, since it’s an average across all 50 states: Only 20 states are above that 50.4 percent average. In 10 states, user fees account for a third or less of total road funding.

So where does the rest of the money for all roads, and the majority of funding for local roads, come from? Two broad sources: general taxes and bonds. General taxes include things like property tax, income tax, and state and local sales taxes. So if you own a home, have a job or buy, well, anything, you contribute to road funding whether you have a car or not. Bonds are repaid out of either general tax revenue or specifically-earmarked income, property, or sales taxes levied to support that particular bond.

Even if the money did come from road taxes, most cyclists own cars. We may not drive them quite as much because we use bikes for some errands or to get to work, but we still pay registration fees like any car owner, and we still pay gas taxes when we gas up.

Since a significant amount of road funding is devoted to maintenance, it’s worth noting that bicycles create wear and tear orders of magnitude less than automobile traffic, which itself is an order of magnitude less than truck traffic.

Many cyclist such as my wife or myself are far from being freeloaders, we're subsidizing drivers.

That fact is, there are a lot of shitty cyclists with shitty attitudes that piss off car drivers and make them do stupid things. It sucks but that is the reality. These large groups with their militant attitudes are hurting their own cause but they don't seem to care. If cyclists were better at self policing and tried to educate each other as well as try to create car driver awareness programs emphasizing the benefits of cycling then you might see car drivers giving more respect.

I know the respect thing is a two way street but the problem is the cyclist will always be on the losing end of that battle. I wish it were different as I would still be a road rider.

There is lots of shitty drivers out there as well; probably more than asshole cyclist. For some reason whenever this debate comes up everyone forget about that.

There are cyclist out there that don't ride responsibly like my wife and I do and I feel where many come from on this topic. Just keep in mind, I still feel that is the minority out there you may be seeing.

 

[beaverretriever]

If cyclists are out to get exercise, then bear down and do it. Don't ride two wide down PCH and think motorists should bow down to you. If you can ride and hold a conversation, you are not exercising. Do cyclists have the right to ride? Of course, they do. But rolling double down a busy 55 mph road on a summer Saturday morning is probably not the best time. That is reality. Just because you could, does not always mean you should.

I say this because I have come close to running over a cyclist on 2 separate occasions last year. Rolling down from Oceanside to Encinitas. Cyclists need to look over their shoulder before passing another biker in the bike lane. You want to pop out of the bike lane to pass without looking over your shoulder to see me, you are an idiot. I don't change lanes on the freeway blindly... cyclists need to obey the traffic rules as well.

It does seem to be more of a problem in Orange County than anywhere I have been. I see some of the group rides and cringe. There is one problem with SoCal. Just too many people. It's not the drivers, cyclist, walkers, runners; it's everyone!!!!!!

 

[beaverretriever]

Do you live in Southern California?

Yeah I know, it sounded more like a Grads statement. However I didn't say "nude male physiques".

 

[Ziggy]

If you're moving slower than traffic, you can still "take the lane." The law says that people who ride bikes must ride as close to the right side of the road as practicable except under the following conditions: when passing, preparing for a left turn, avoiding hazards, if the lane is too narrow to share, or if approaching a place where a right turn is authorized. CVC 21202. Unfortunately, some motorists and even police don't understand cyclists' right to "take the lane."

However I agree that if a cyclist shows complete disregard for others it's understandable why a driver may get upset. As long as a cyclist gives some indication to give space to a driver, the driver should show the same courtesy.

I don't believe cyclist should blow through stop signs as it is dangerous for both the rider and a driver and most don't. Again, a minority. Most cyclist care about living just as you do.

I will admit I have rolled through red lights when it is completely safe to do so. Fact is, the weight of a bicycle and rider will not set off most street sensors to change the light from red to green. Until bicycles have the same perks as as a car or a pedestrian the same rules do not always apply. In most places there is code or a local ordinance that makes riding on a sidewalk illegal so cyclist are left to ride in the road. If the road doesn't have a safe shoulder then the cyclist has to do what they can to stay safe and that sometimes means riding more to the left to keep cars from passing unsafely.



If a cyclist is impeding traffic if followed by five or more motor vehicles. The law requires a turnout to the right in such an instance and I agree with this 100%. Otherwise if a law allows a rider to take a full lane to be safe you will have to take that up with your local government. Many times there just isn't enough room to get over far enough to be safe from a steep shoulder or "door zone". If a cyclist is going 10mph or less up a hill, then that makes it even easier for a driver to pass when safe due to speed difference. Anytime I have ever ran into this situation where I was riding and couldn't get over far enough for a car to pass safely such as a long, steep climb, it was only a matter of seconds before there was a spot I could move over to let the car pass legally. I have never in my life held up anyone for more than a few seconds at most.

And yes, I still stick with plan your day better as anyone who can't wait 5 or 10 sec to pass a cyclist, runner, roller blader, whatever has other issues. Like I stated before, in 30 years of driving I have NEVER been held up by a cyclist or group that has made me late or made me feel like they really didn't give a shit. I know it happens, but I have been lucky enough that this has never been a problem.

Having lived in LA, Las Vegas and bike friendly Reno/Tahoe. I have been held up numerous times by auto accidents, bad drivers, and broken down vehicles but I can not think of one time this has happened because of someone on a bicycle. So I really struggle with anyone who says cyclist holds them up on a regular basis as it just doesn't happen very often.




NO, I don't ride for free. The entire “cyclists don’t pay road taxes” argument rests on a gigantic myth: that somehow, cyclists are monolithic automatons who do nothing but ride bikes. In this caricature, we are not also business owners and workers, homeowners, consumers and most of the time, car owners who pay all the taxes that fund roads.

Automobile “use taxes,” like registration and gas taxes, go almost entirely toward funding state and federal highway expenses. But the Federal Highway Administration trust fund is busted—the gas tax hasn’t risen since 1993, and since then, the FHA’s purchasing power has dropped 28 percent. By 2007, highway spending exceeded use-related revenues by $600 million a year, according to the Public Interest Research Group.

Total use fees (including tolls) account for only 50.4 percent of all road funding in the US, according the non-profit Tax Foundation. When you consider that the money predominantly goes toward highways, you realize local city and county roads—the ones most used by cyclists when we ride—are barely funded this way. Moreover, the figure itself is misleading, since it’s an average across all 50 states: Only 20 states are above that 50.4 percent average. In 10 states, user fees account for a third or less of total road funding.

So where does the rest of the money for all roads, and the majority of funding for local roads, come from? Two broad sources: general taxes and bonds. General taxes include things like property tax, income tax, and state and local sales taxes. So if you own a home, have a job or buy, well, anything, you contribute to road funding whether you have a car or not. Bonds are repaid out of either general tax revenue or specifically-earmarked income, property, or sales taxes levied to support that particular bond.

Even if the money did come from road taxes, most cyclists own cars. We may not drive them quite as much because we use bikes for some errands or to get to work, but we still pay registration fees like any car owner, and we still pay gas taxes when we gas up.

Since a significant amount of road funding is devoted to maintenance, it’s worth noting that bicycles create wear and tear orders of magnitude less than automobile traffic, which itself is an order of magnitude less than truck traffic.

Many cyclist such as my wife or myself are far from being freeloaders, we're subsidizing drivers.




There is lots of shitty drivers out there as well; probably more than asshole cyclist. For some reason whenever this debate comes up everyone forget about that.

There are cyclist out there that don't ride responsibly like my wife and I do and I feel where many come from on this topic. Just keep in mind, I still feel that is the minority out there you may be seeing.

Laws, Schmaws.....seems like self preservation should be first and foremost in their fricken brains.
.
Do you switch lanes blindly in your car? Do you run red lights in your car? Do you run stops signs in your car? Do you zoom past pedestrians within 12 inches in your car? Do you drive 20 in the 55 in your car? Do you look back at people you are holding up and flip them off in your car? Do you instigate aggravation by driving even slower in your car? Do you stop and fall over onto someones car if you drive your motorcycle?
.
Respect is a two lane road Bi-cyclists....

 

[Advantage 1]

It does seem to be more of a problem in Orange County than anywhere I have been. I see some of the group rides and cringe. There is one problem with SoCal. Just too many people. It's not the drivers, cyclist, walkers, runners; it's everyone!!!!!!

Agreed... just too many people.

I jog for exercise. I have been swiped [I like to think not purpose] twice by cars' mirrors. There are some roads around my house with no sidewalk. So I run along the edge of the road. I run against traffic so I can see what is coming at me. Both 'hits' were during the week around lunchtime. Scared the shit out of me. So I don't run that route anymore Getting hit twice was good for me. Here is the road... very small edge to the road and dirt for a sidewalk.

 

[ChiliPepperGarage]

I was going to type out another response but it sounds like no matter what anyone says you are going to see your side and not the other. It is a shame though because in the end we all lose.

Just another example of a society divided along many issues. Everyone feels that they are right and no one is willing to give an inch. Another reason why I moved to the boonies!

Enjoy your riding and stay safe.

 

[Raffit78]

This should be on drivers test before you take a quick ride in a car.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[beaverretriever]

Laws, Schmaws.....seems like self preservation should be first and foremost in their fricken brains.
.
Do you switch lanes blindly in your car? Do you run red lights in your car? Do you run stops signs in your car? Do you zoom past pedestrians within 12 inches in your car? Do you drive 20 in the 55 in your car? Do you look back at people you are holding up and flip them off in your car? Do you instigate aggravation by driving even slower in your car? Do you stop and fall over onto someones car if you drive your motorcycle?
.
Respect is a two lane road Bi-cyclists....

I think you win for most ironic post of the day as it sounds EXACTLY like the way most people drive their car.

It also sounds like you may have some deeper issue with someone you encountered on a bicycle.

 

[Ziggy]

I was going to type out another response but it sounds like no matter what anyone says you are going to see your side and not the other. It is a shame though because in the end we all lose.

Just another example of a society divided along many issues. Everyone feels that they are right and no one is willing to give an inch. Another reason why I moved to the boonies!

As I said, it's a two way respect thing and the bad cyclists apples have prevailed in that sport.
Last weekend along PCH in Carlsbad a group of about 20 bikes(team riders it seemed) riding along came to a red light, 18 of the 20 ran it. I actually rolled down my window and thanked the other 2 for stopping.

 

[beaverretriever]

I was going to type out another response but it sounds like no matter what anyone says you are going to see your side and not the other. It is a shame though because in the end we all lose.

Just another example of a society divided along many issues. Everyone feels that they are right and no one is willing to give an inch. Another reason why I moved to the boonies!

Enjoy your riding and stay safe.

My post for the most pare was completely objective using facts and figures an not letting personal feelings get in the way. Unfortunately people lose focus and become subjective in their banter.

I am not right or wrong as I just abide by the law and use it to it's full extent if it helps keep my wife and I alive.

 

[Advantage 1]

Laws, Schmaws.....seems like self preservation should be first and foremost in their fricken brains

Kind of my sentiment with the 'just because you could...' comment. Has nothing to do with laws. Just some common sense.

I won't walk my pups along College because drivers treat that downhill portion by my house like a raceway. I won't tow my nephews in Parker on a busy weekend. I stopped running down N Santa Fe Road. I can go on and on. Sure, it is legal to do these things, but I won't because bad shit could happen. Probably my age kicking in, but just not worth it.

I am sure I do stupid shit that other people would not do

 

[beaverretriever]

As I said, it's a two way respect thing and the bad cyclists apples have prevailed in that sport.
Last weekend along PCH in Carlsbad a group of about 20 bikes(team riders it seemed) riding along came to a red light, 18 of the 20 ran it. I actually rolled down my window and thanked the other 2 for stopping.

Like I said, I don't see that around here or when I lived in LA. I really feel Orange County and surrounding areas is terrible. Everyone including drivers and cyclist seem to not care about anyone or anything and live in their one little bubble with 10 million other people. Sad really.

 

[Boat Bling]

Sad to hear about the death of the cyclist. I live in Tempe and see a minimum of 4-6 self driving uber's and 1-2 Waymo's (Alphabet version) per day. Sometimes many more. A friend works for Waymo and its incredibly fascinating how it all works. They're by far the safest cars to drive near as they never depart from their lane unless operated by the human driver.

I did see a self driving car get "stuck" at the end of my street a few months back when it got confused lol. Driver ultimately had to take over control but it was at a full stop.

-Zack

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk

 

[Ziggy]

I think you win for most ironic post of the day as it sounds EXACTLY like the way most people drive their car.

It also sounds like you may have some deeper issue with someone you encountered on a bicycle.

I can't speak for others but in regard to your view, I'd take a car vs car accident verses being on a bike doing this shit. As I said, self preservation should be paramount to themselves and not being right. Although, running a red light isn't right anyhow.

 

[beaverretriever]

Kind of my sentiment with the 'just because you could...' comment. Has nothing to do with laws. Just some common sense.

I won't walk my pups along College because drivers treat that downhill portion by my house like a raceway. I won't tow my nephews in Parker on a busy weekend. I stopped running down N Santa Fe Road. I can go on and on. Sure, it is legal to do these things, but I won't because bad shit could happen. Probably my age kicking in, but just not worth it.

I am sure I do stupid shit that other people would not do

I agree. Just because a light turns green doesn't mean I hit the gas because I know there is always some dumbfuck that will run the red and smash in to me.

I ride defensively because I have to. Because drivers don't obey the laws. I want to stay alive and to do so, even if law allows me to do something I just don't do it because others don't follow the rules. If drivers and cyclist followed all the laws put in place, the "just because you could" wouldn't even be an issue because, yes I could and I would be safe. So what you are basically saying is if drivers did what they were supposed to, cyclist could do what they are allowed to do and be safe. Unfortunately it doesn't work that way and riders need to stay defensive.

 

[USMC2010]

This conversation is weird. Didn’t she WALK her bicycle out in front of the car last second? This technology will kill more before it is done testing which is not what testing is for. I saw two of these things on I40 at the topock exit last Wednesday. As much as I like technology, this I’m not a fan of.

 

[beaverretriever]

There are nice folks like my wife that are on the road every day just trying to stay healthy and get to work or run errands. She abides by all the laws, is super courteous, doesn't run lights or signs. She has a family and friends just like all of you do and a great life she wants to keep on living. So just make sure to give that extra room if they try and do the same for you.

We are not libtard hippies. Just people trying to stay fit and save on gas! There are lots like us just out there riding, so keep that in mind.

 

[Ziggy]

I agree. Just because a light turns green doesn't mean I hit the gas because I know there is always some dumbfuck that will run the red and smash in to me.

I ride defensively because I have to. Because drivers don't obey the laws. I want to stay alive and to do so, even if law allows me to do something I just don't do it because others don't follow the rules. If drivers and cyclist followed all the laws put in place, the "just because you could" wouldn't even be an issue because, yes I could and I would be safe. So what you are basically saying is if drivers did what they were supposed to, cyclist could do what they are allowed to do and be safe. Unfortunately it doesn't work that way and riders need to stay defensive.

I agree not all drivers follow or even know the laws but as a cyclist that 99.9999% is also is a car driver knows these exact driving tendencies because likely he does it too. It should make him even more vigilant to be safe in that instance.

 

[beaverretriever]

I agree not all drivers follow or even know the laws but as a cyclist that 99.9999% is also is a car driver knows these exact driving tendencies because likely he does it too. It should make him even more vigilant to be safe in that instance.

Well when a cyclist does something dumb, that is on them but if a cyclist is completely obeying the law and a driver drives one foot from them that is where the problem is. I see it all the time. Even if I ride over to the far right, drivers feel they can brush my arm even when they have a full lane to get over.

Like stated by ChilPepperGarage, everyone needs to give a little.

 

[mjc]

I think I will go for a ride now.

 

[Boat Bling]

Im sure there's more to come on this. As expected, pedestrian stepped out in front of car. Will be following along to see how this plays out.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/arti...tepped-suddenly-in-front-of-self-driving-uber


-Zack

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk

 

[Advantage 1]

So what you are basically saying is if drivers did what they were supposed to, cyclist could do what they are allowed to do and be safe.

Yup! But the scary part... even if the cyclist is in the right, they will incur much more damage than the front bumper of my truck if there is an accident.

Ride safely my friend!

 

[JDKRXW]

This conversation is weird. Didn’t she WALK her bicycle out in front of the car last second?

Why should we let the facts get in the way of a good argument.

She was a pedestrian who was j-walking in the dark at 10:00pm. Sad that she didn't make it, but the the painted lines and walk signals at intersections are there for a reason.

 

[USMC2010]

Why should we let the facts get in the way of a good argument.

She was a pedestrian who was j-walking in the dark at 10:00pm. Sad that she didn't make it, but the the painted lines and walk signals at intersections are there for a reason.

I know, I know it is RDP...and the painted lines and walk signals are invisible barriers that will protect anyone in them. I'm wondering of the car would have detected her in that scenario. I still say testing on the population is unacceptable.

 

[ChiliPepperGarage]

Yup! But the scary part... even if the cyclist is in the right, they will incur much more damage than the front bumper of my truck if there is an accident.

Ride safely my friend!

Reminds me of the old safe driving public service announcements from the 70's. "You can be right........DEAD right"!

 

[ArizonaKevin]

This should be on drivers test before you take a quick ride in a car.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I was a bus driver while I was in college and I firmly believe cyclists should have to get behind the wheel of a fully loaded bus (about 48k loaded heavy) and see how long it takes to bring it to a stop before they are allowed to cycle on the street.

I ultimately quit the job because I had way too many close calls with texting jaywalkers, oblivious cyclists, and morons climbing under my bus at a stop light to retrieve their skateboard (that's a fun story)

 

[Justfishing]

Wow that got off topic.

A self driving car should not need lights to see a pedestrian. It can see in the dark. It should have infared sensors, radar etc.

Following a roadway is a simple matter. It is all of the complexities of driving. Weather conditions, road work, detours, construction zones, black ice, snow etc.

Once you have a lot of cars on the road will signals start interfering with the other cars.

If you have a self driving car who is at fault in an accident. What if a self driving car takes you off route and you end up a victim of crime.

 

[Wicky]

Where did the bike section go?

 

[H20 Toie]

Here is the video of her getting hit, any one would have hit her, wearing dark clothes on a dark road in the middle of the street, the rider in the car was almost asleep which isn't going to help matters, but the chick wasn't very bright

https://www.cnn.com/videos/cnnmoney...rizona-pedestrian-dead-cnnmoney-orig.cnnmoney

 

[USMC2010]

Her being hit would have made more sense if she appeared in the street from the right, the distance to a moving object is less. Coming across the street from the left, I would think the car should have detected her.

 

[rrrr]

I think the person that was killed should have detected the car. WTF was she thinking, ambling across the road as a car was bearing down on her?

It was probably the only car around, if she had waiting 20 seconds to cross it would have passed her.

This is a Darwin Award deal.

 

[ChiliPepperGarage]

I think the person that was killed should have detected the car. WTF was she thinking, ambling across the road as a car was bearing down on her?

It was probably the only car around, if she had waiting 20 seconds to cross it would have passed her.

This is a Darwin Award deal.

I agree. If this had been a regular car it would not be news. Most likely homeless woman under the influence jay walking at night in dark clothes with no lights and doesn't see a car with headlights coming?

Sorry but this is 100% the woman's fault. No different than idiots that run in front of a train.

 

[HotRod82]

I agree. If this had been a regular car it would not be news. Most likely homeless woman under the influence jay walking at night in dark clothes with no lights and doesn't see a car with headlights coming?

Sorry but this is 100% the woman's fault. No different than idiots that run in front of a train.

You are correct she was not being smart crossing in front of a car but you are missing the point here.....
Autonomous vehicles do not require or rely on light to see. If that woman was crossing in broad daylight the car would still have hit her. The fact the car did not "see" her is a huge deal and illustrates headless cars are still not ready for use on public roads. As stated earlier in this thread "experimenting on the public is totally unacceptable".

 

[AZMIDLYF]

Agree with above post...she was in the street ahead for quite some time. It's not like she just stepped off the curb. Vehicle's sensors did not pick her up? This will cause a lot of nerves as far as the litigation aspect for these vehicles.

 

[wzuber]

I appreciate and applaud your efforts to work with auto drivers and do what you can to stay safe as well as not impeed traffic and contribute to driver tensions. Here in so kal. stupidity in masse is the norm anymore and tensions are high at all times it seems. I would like to ride but I simply don't trust distracted drivers to pay attention, give a shit and work with others on the road. Just the shit I see daily between auto's is enough for me to say no thanks.
If you lived in so. kali. now you would likely see the difference from where you are and it's not good and rapidly getting worse.

Fact is, the weight of a bicycle and rider will not set off most street

Just a little heads up for you here on this comment...weight has absolutely nothing to do with it. The "sensor" is a magnetic field created by a electronic loop detector connected to a loop of wire (3 coils) imbeded 2" into the surface of the roadway. They are calibrated to "sense" the metal of a vehicle when it enters the magnetic "field" it creates, (field area=that rect. or round space you see visible on the surface from the sealant used to protect the wire loop from moisture, damage etc.) The shape of your bike, ie. height, alum. frame, etc. simply hasn't enough magnetic material to "trip" the detector and activate the system. Motor cycles are at the bottom end of their sensitivity range typically depending on who and how it was calibrated upon installation..
http://www.renoae.com/product/root/0/60
This co. has created a new detector specifically for bikes to be installed in bike lanes.

 

[beaverretriever]

We lived in Vegas for 10 years and people getting hit crossing the street was normal protocol. Just like this woman, the pedestrians are usually at fault.

That video did make me cringe though. ugh.