Bye bye Uber/Lyft

[Xtrmwakeboarder]

Great, now my wife going to be pissed lol. Since Covid and no day care and crazy schedules, instacart is all we use now.

If I have to go grocery shopping with my wife again, I'm going to lose my shit. Instacart has been the best thing to happen to me during this pandemic.

 

[LargeOrangeFont]

Yeah if Lyft/Uber allowed the drivers to negotiate rates directly with the customer, then methinks they would be compliant with the law.

I’m in the minority but this sticking point is why I think these drivers are really employees...


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

What is wrong with a pre set rate, and sub-contracting out the work to an independent contractor?

Love to hear more on why you think they should be employees.

 

[YeahYeah01]

If I have to go grocery shopping with my wife again, I'm going to lose my shit. Instacart has been the best thing to happen to me during this pandemic.

100%%%%%%% lol

 

[SKIDMARC]

Bill AB 5 screwed up allot of people. I had to make all my Physical, Occupational and Speech therapist employees as of 01/01/20. But certain MD and surgeons are exempt of course.

If I had to do it so does Lyft and Uber. We were actually hoping they would get it amended giving the money they were throwing at it but no luck.

 

[hallett21]

CA just changed the script. Something about an emergency stay lol


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[bowtiejunkie]

Yeah if Lyft/Uber allowed the drivers to negotiate rates directly with the customer, then methinks they would be compliant with the law.

I’m in the minority but this sticking point is why I think these drivers are really employees...


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

i thought that was part of this as well. The drivers do not negotiate rates. Plus, Uber/Lyft serve drivers specific jobs via a platform owned by Uber/Lyft and therefore the drivers have no true independence in doing these ride-share jobs. Taken as a whole, these drivers are employees.

Did the government change the rules regarding how an independent contractor is defined? Maybe I haven’t followed this close enough.

I think as suggested above, Uber/Lyft should change the business model.

 

[ChumpChange]

Uber Eats. Grub Hub. There will be uproar.

 

[ONE-A-DAY]

Does this break down to Cal wanting them to treat their employees like employees instead of contracted independent workers, meaning Uber and Lyft would have to pay huge workers comp insurance?

Yes and cover 50% of the employee benefit costs since they have more than 50 employees and provide a 401k program since they have more than 5 employees. And the drivers would get screwed as well being W2 instead of self-employed, losing all of the tax deductions.

 

[jailbird141]

Thank you Gavin Newsom.

 

[Uncle Dave]

work comp, payroll taxes, sick days, paid family leave etc etc etc

This is the Crux of it - California claims the drivers are employees therefore Uber has to pay for this.

Uber and Lyfts position is that they are mere contractors, and they send a 1099.

The drivers sued Uber and Lyft to become emplyess and instead of getting what they wanted now they are out of a gig completely - net net the state pushed them out with this ruling.

Nice solution - everyone loses.

UD

 

[Mr. C]

CA just changed the script. Something about an emergency stay lol


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Lyft, Uber won’t suspend operations in California after getting reprieve from court

An appeals court has allowed ride-hailing giants Uber and Lyft to continue treating their drivers as independent contractors in California in a decision that will give the two companies a few more …

ktla.com

 

[rivermobster]

If I have to go grocery shopping with my wife again, I'm going to lose my shit. Instacart has been the best thing to happen to me during this pandemic.

Was that you in the store the other day???

I saw some dude standing at the end of the store isle, while his wife was taking her sweet time walking up and down eash isle. Oh boy, he looked PISSED OFF AT THE WORLD!!! KInna felt bad for the guy, but I didn't wanna make eye contact with him either...

He looked like he was gonna pop a vein any second!!! lol

 

[Uncle Dave]

Lyft, Uber won’t suspend operations in California after getting reprieve from court

An appeals court has allowed ride-hailing giants Uber and Lyft to continue treating their drivers as independent contractors in California in a decision that will give the two companies a few more …

ktla.com

I'd imagine putting 100% of both companies drivers out of business at this point in 2020 isnt a great call.

UD

 

[Uncle Dave]

i thought that was part of this as well. The drivers do not negotiate rates. Plus, Uber/Lyft serve drivers specific jobs via a platform owned by Uber/Lyft and therefore the drivers have no true independence in doing these ride-share jobs. Taken as a whole, these drivers are employees.

Did the government change the rules regarding how an independent contractor is defined? Maybe I haven’t followed this close enough.

I think as suggested above, Uber/Lyft should change the business model.

The other model is the existing taxi company model. Where you get shifts of crappy dirty sticky cars along with selective highly limited availability and stratospheric pricing.

I'm unsure how they can be employees when they themselves decide when and how much they want to work.

 

[Xtrmwakeboarder]

Was that you in the store the other day???

I saw some dude standing at the end of the store isle, while his wife was taking her sweet time walking up and down eash isle. Oh boy, he looked PISSED OFF AT THE WORLD!!! KInna felt bad for the guy, but I didn't wanna make eye contact with him either...

He looked like he was gonna pop a vein any second!!! lol

Lmao that was probably me before March. You haven’t lived until you’ve looked at the ingredients and macros of every yogurt In the store for 20+ minutes...only to decide that you didn’t want any of them.
It’s good that she’s insanely healthy, but damn does is take a long time.

 

[EmpirE231]

IF uber/lyft make a comeback to CA, expect prices to be much higher, which gets rid of the convenience

 

[pronstar]

What is wrong with a pre set rate, and sub-contracting out the work to an independent contractor?

Love to hear more on why you think they should be employees.

Here’s my take:

The rate isn’t pre-set. It changes constantly based on demand, and the service sets the rate., not the driver.

If the driver was an independent contractor, the driver and passenger would negotiate the rate, and then give the service a percentage.


Also, the drivers aren’t free to give rides or not. They “clock in” on the app, and the service directs rides to you. If you refuse to give the ride, you are penalized and eventually the service will cut you loose.

If the driver was an independent contractor, then the drivers could pick and choose the ride they choose to give, or not give.


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[Uncle Dave]

Here’s my take:

The rate isn’t pre-set. It changes constantly based on demand, and the service sets the rate., not the driver.

If the driver was an independent contractor, the driver and passenger would negotiate the rate, and then give the service a percentage.


Also, the drivers aren’t free to give rides or not. They “clock in” on the app, and the service directs rides to you. If you refuse to give the ride, you are penalized and eventually the service will cut you loose.

If the driver was an independent contractor, then the drivers could pick and choose the ride they choose to give, or not give.


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Each driver can accept or take a ride at the time the call is issued - if you accept then opt out you get a penalty, because you hose the client, and another driver who accepted 2nd.

A rider has a fixed amount of time to cancel penalty free.


UD

 

[riverroyal]

my uber eats drivers are never the ones the app says. The people bringing food are on unemployment. The actual person on the app Im seeing rents the delivery run(s) and makes a LOT of deliveries.
The restaurants do not check who grabs the bag, theres just a name. That person gets a address and does the trip.

Example. I have a Uber eats account. Im at work and my kids make the trips who are on underemployment.
I DONT HAVE A ACCOUNT AND MY KIDS WORK. but you get the idea. 8 people renting a house, few have the account, rest are on unemployment. Double dip douple dip
One big pile of shit system.

 

[Uncle Dave]

The driver can always go into business for himself without Uber or Lyft -
They need to get a chauffeurs license and the appropriate insurance, create an app, and market yourself.


UD

 

[pronstar]

The other model is the existing taxi company model. Where you get shifts of crappy dirty sticky cars along with selective highly limited availability and stratospheric pricing.

I'm unsure how they can be employees when they themselves decide when and how much they want to work.

Typically cab drivers lease/rent the cab for each shift, and are able to pick and choose the rides they give.

But the fare isn’t negotiated by the driver or the passenger.


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[Uncle Dave]

my uber eats drivers are never the ones the app says. The people bringing food are on unemployment. The actual person on the app Im seeing rents the delivery run(s) and makes a LOT of deliveries.
The restaurants do not check who grabs the bag, theres just a name. That person gets a address and does the trip.

Example. I have a Uber eats account. Im at work and my kids make the trips who are on underemployment.
I DONT HAVE A ACCOUNT AND MY KIDS WORK. but you get the idea. 8 people renting a house, few have the account, rest are on unemployment. Double dip douple dip
One big pile of shit system.

Dangerous game - as the insurance is up for grabs as well as it being a violation of the agreement Ubery and Lyft have you sign.

 

[pronstar]

Btw I feel this way based on how CA changed their law. I believe most anyone who well wants to be an independent contractor, should have that right.


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[riverroyal]

Dangerous game - as the insurance is up for grabs as well as it being a violation of the agreement Ubery and Lyft have you sign.

agreed, but whats the penalty and who is enforcing it. People dont care

 

[Uncle Dave]

Typically cab drivers lease/rent the cab for each shift, and are able to pick and choose the rides they give.

But the fare isn’t negotiated by the driver or the passenger.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

Typically, but not alway on rental. Some cabbies have both a medallion (that they paid through the nose for) and their own cars.

You can always tell the lease/ rent cars as they are always filthy. Dont grab that grab rail you'll hav to peel your hand off. With no " grading" of the vehicle no one cares if your product is shit.

They are not able to accept a radio call then decline either - or they simply get fired.
Most of the larger companies have their own app now with similar restrictions and rules.

 

[Uncle Dave]

agreed, but whats the penalty and who is enforcing it. People dont care

This isnt new either - on many cities you need a medallion to be cabby, and although you aren't supposed to in lots of places many just sublease the medallion.

 

[GRADS]

Quit your worrying...

Judge grants Uber and Lyft temporary stay in driver reclassification case | TechCrunch

A California appeals court judge has granted Uber and Lyft's emergency stay. This means the preliminary injunction that sought to force companies to

techcrunch.com

 

[boatpi]

It’s on hold for now that’s an emergency stay order

 

[framer1]

Drunk driving stats should spike like a pandemic too.

Sometime I wonder if that is what they are doing. They are losing a lot DUI money. I'm probably being a little skeptical...

 

[LargeOrangeFont]

Here’s my take:

The rate isn’t pre-set. It changes constantly based on demand, and the service sets the rate., not the driver.

If the driver was an independent contractor, the driver and passenger would negotiate the rate, and then give the service a percentage.


Also, the drivers aren’t free to give rides or not. They “clock in” on the app, and the service directs rides to you. If you refuse to give the ride, you are penalized and eventually the service will cut you loose.

If the driver was an independent contractor, then the drivers could pick and choose the ride they choose to give, or not give.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

It is my understanding that the driver can accept a ride or not, it isn’t forced on them. A ride pops up and they can accept or decline it. These employees have full autonomy to work when they want and for how long they want... well they did at least.

I don’t think the cost you pay on the app makes any difference. If I sub out a driver to to do a job for a price, what I charge the end user has nothing to do with their employment status or if they are a contractor or not in my mind.

 

[FlyByWire]

I fully expect the DUI collision numbers (and fatality numbers) to increase a fair amount. Great job, again, CA!

 

[Justfishing]

UBer and lyft started by entering markets violating laws. Cabs for years had to meet state and city laws. Had to pay drivers benefits, unemployment insurance, etc. Ride sharing came in with a competitive advantage and no regulation. Ride sharing wrote their own rules. The way they entered the market I am sure upset some people and not its coming back to bite them.

By mandate cabs have flat pricing. Cabs are archaic. I was with some friends and they were checking ride share prices and they tripled in a matter of minutes when an event was getting out.
I dont know enough about ride sharing but it does seem to blur the line. Its a lot like Airbnb in that try to ursurp state or local control.

 

[pronstar]

It is my understanding that the driver can accept a ride or not, it isn’t forced on them. A ride pops up and they can accept or decline it. These employees have full autonomy to work when they want and for how long they want... well they did at least.

I don’t think the cost you pay on the app makes any difference. If I sub out a driver to to do a job for a price, what I charge the end user has nothing to do with their employment status or if they are a contractor or not in my mind.

I’m with ya.
But as I understand it, the drivers are dinged for refusing a fare. Too many dings and you’re out.


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[Uncle Dave]

UBer and lyft started by entering markets violating laws. Cabs for years had to meet state and city laws. Had to pay drivers benefits, unemployment insurance, etc. Ride sharing came in with a competitive advantage and no regulation. Ride sharing wrote their own rules. The way they entered the market I am sure upset some people and not its coming back to bite them.

By mandate cabs have flat pricing. Cabs are archaic. I was with some friends and they were checking ride share prices and they tripled in a matter of minutes when an event was getting out.
I dont know enough about ride sharing but it does seem to blur the line. Its a lot like Airbnb in that try to ursurp state or local control.

The cab business has been violating competition laws from its inception as well.

stuff like : Cities creating medallion systems with arbitrary caps and dubious sales policies, then repricing them later up ro down - or eliminating them altogether after the fact negating the value of 100's of K in licensing paid - wiping out lives with no regard.

By limiting medallions and issuing to giant companies only they were allowed to create duopolies sticking us with crappy substandard product while reaping all kinds of kickback and grift

True it blurs a line, but I dont think they stepped over it that I can see - I think the state got super greedy up to 2020 thinking they can mandate whatever and everyone just has to take it.

 

[Uncle Dave]

I’m with ya.
But as I understand it, the drivers are dinged for refusing a fare. Too many dings and you’re out.


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Thats not what Ive heard my understanding is they only get dinged if they accept then decline while en route.
They should get dinged for that as someone is/was waiting for them to show after rather accept. Now they have to rebook and wait longer.

 

[Uncle Dave]

I fully expect the DUI collision numbers (and fatality numbers) to increase a fair amount. Great job, again, CA!

Either get a DUI or Its back to the old "cab line" without ride sharing as high demand time would have fraction of the available rides. Remember waiting a half hour for cabs?

Or Better yet in New York- simply not being able to get one at all during " shift change" where they drive up to you and stop and roll down a window while asking where you are going - if you are heading away from the garage - they just drive away.

 

[Justfishing]

The cab business has been violating competition laws from its inception as well.

stuff like : Cities creating medallion systems with arbitrary caps and dubious sales policies, then repricing them later up ro down - or eliminating them altogether after the fact negating the value of 100's of K in licensing paid - wiping out lives with no regard.

By limiting medallions and issuing to giant companies only they were allowed to create duopolies sticking us with crappy substandard product while reaping all kinds of kickback and grift

True it blurs a line, but I dont think they stepped over it that I can see - I think the state got super greedy up to 2020 thinking they can mandate whatever and everyone just has to take it.

Its was/is a regulated industry that followed government imposed rules and I agree there was no competition but that was by government design. Like I said it is an archaic system. My point was the way it was transformed was one sided pushed by uber and lyft to benefit their business model. It became a new monopoly.

 

[bakertunnel]

They already

Sometime I wonder if that is what they are doing. They are losing a lot DUI money. I'm probably being a little skeptical...

nope, California wants the payroll taxes.

 

[Uncle Dave]

Its was/is a regulated industry that followed government imposed rules and I agree there was no competition but that was by government design. Like I said it is an archaic system. My point was the way it was transformed was one sided pushed by uber and lyft to benefit their business model. It became a new monopoly.

I'm half on board with you - you lost me at "new monopoly."

Anyone that can write and maintain a real time app can now be in the ride sharing business.

There is no restriction on who can play - no medallion, not even any actual cars to buy.

Now the business is driven only states deciding how the rules work in its own borders wether the model makes sense or not - the ride share companies either comply or leave.

Who is the state looking out for? The customers? The drivers? The ride share company? - or itself?

see who chickens out first...SO far the it looks like California caved.

UD

 

[DWC]

Listened to 640 on Tuesday. They had a reporter on that said it’s backed by six union backed companies all out of the same office building in No Cal. Who knew..

 

[LargeOrangeFont]

Listened to 640 on Tuesday. They had a reporter on that said it’s backed by six union backed companies all out of the same office building in No Cal. Who knew..

The plan the entire time has been to try to unionize these people lol. CA is too chicken to call Uber and Lyft’s bluff.

 

[Ouderkirk]

There are still cabs !

And therin lies the rub.

A taxi cab is SIGNIFICANTLY more expensive than Uber/Lyft.

That is who is driving this mania the "medallion" owners who pay $$$ for them and have been short circuited by the rideshares.

 

[Uncle Dave]

The plan the entire time has been to try to unionize these people lol. CA is too chicken to call Uber and Lyft’s bluff.

The Unions want control and fees, but add little here for this group.
Some unions actually work well. Others are ludicrous.

The states wants every driver as a full time employee paying into that kitty and Uber and Lyft are smart enough to keep the rules on sth edge but not step over so the state decided o issue an ultimatum but with the rideshares at a loss in 2020 have nothing to gain by staying so out easy AF to say sayonara!

Uber/ Lyft want to exists in a "gig" economy where the end user pays and deducts everything.

Some compromise will be reached here.


UD

 

[rivermobster]

Speaking of Uber...

Uber's former security chief charged for allegedly concealing data breach

Uber's former chief security officer has been charged with trying to conceal from federal investigators a 2016 data breach that exposed the information of 57 million users to hackers.

www.cnn.com

Uber's former chief security officer has been charged with trying to conceal from federal investigators a 2016 data breach that exposed the information of 57 million users to hackers.

DOH!!!!!!

 

[LazyLavey]

I bet Taxi companies are stoked. Virtually put taxi business' out of business.

I smell the Taxi Drivers Union lobbyist........ "Smell ya later"

 

[Uncle Dave]

Speaking of Uber...

Uber's former security chief charged for allegedly concealing data breach

Uber's former chief security officer has been charged with trying to conceal from federal investigators a 2016 data breach that exposed the information of 57 million users to hackers.

www.cnn.com

Uber's former chief security officer has been charged with trying to conceal from federal investigators a 2016 data breach that exposed the information of 57 million users to hackers.

DOH!!!!!!

Their founder Travis Kalanick was a real douchebag as well. Never loved that team.

Great fucking idea though - bummed I didnt think of it.

 

[Instigator]

CA just can’t get enough of our money. Basically they are making it almost impossible for many businesses to use independent contractors. They want the payroll tax money !

I am sure that there are more than a few drivers that somehow feel they are entitled to full benifits as well.
California just isn't smart enough to stop fucking itself and its residents.
Lol

 

[Dan Lorenze]

 

[CoolCruzin]

 

[TimeBandit]

Rideshare was a great gig in 2014, the drivers kept 80% of the fare. fast forward to today, Uber/Lyft keeps 50% of the fare and provides shitty liability insurance only.

Who says employees can't have flexible schedules? oh yeah, Uber/Lyft.

Follow the money. The drivers don't make shit and pay all vehicle expenses like commercial insurance (you can't do rideshare with a standard insurance policy)

California extending the deadline is B.S. but money talks in this state, the broke ass drivers don't stand a chance.