PPP loan fraud

[Performance Grips]

exactly. there are many companies that received the loan, that were not affected by the shutdown stayed opening and operating while collecting ppp money. This resulted in them operating at a high profit being the ppp money is essentially free Payroll. frees up a lot of money to buy toys etc.
It’s really simple and I’m shocked the .gov didn’t think this part through or they did and just didn’t care in exchange for pushing something through quickly.

The government will audit accounts over 150k. They better have they're books together. The more publicity these PPP frauds get the more they will check. It'll be real easy to check if the business income didn't go down. That will be a big red flag to audit as well.

 

[Wheeler]

He's not in Florida is he? Feds just busted a guy for buying a Lambo. He owned a moving company.

No, just another one of those guys from the Oc..
I asked him why he settled for the economy model. He didn't get my humor.


@boatpi might know him.

 

[C-2]

Yea I did get laid off 2 weeks ago. Tech is still doing OK at the moment. Not as good as a year ago, but business is moving along.

We were forecasting a down year for 2020 before COVID in my patch, as 2019 was great and we were able to pull many 2020 deals forward. My rep and I were the top performing sales team in the company.

I was owed some past compensation from 2019 and after 7 months into 2020, they agreed to pay me, then laid me off a week later. they laid off 6-7 people in total I believe.

The job market in my sector still has opportunities. I’ve already had a couple interviews, and one more tomorrow.

Damn LOA, sorry to read this, but glad to hear you have other possible jobs lined up.

Wifey was also laid off and then her small employer tried to get a PPP loan but they were denied, so wifey went to a competitor for about 10% less pay.

The State promoted me and said congrats on your promotion, but we're taking away 10% for the next two years.

Things are getting tough for sure.

Good luck with your new gig!

 

[McKay]

The government will audit accounts over 150k. They better have they're books together. The more publicity these PPP frauds get the more they will check. It'll be real easy to check if the business income didn't go down. That will be a big red flag to audit as well.

Most likely if their income did not go down then they most certainly had enough payroll and used up all the PPP funds for the 24 weeks of eligible payroll that the loan was given for. So doubt there will be an audit as most will apply for "forgiveness" by years end and will have already provided quarterly 941's and rent/utility documents to back up their forgiveness application.

 

[Done-it-again]

You will have to claim the PPP on your taxes as profit, so be ready to pay uncle sam on April 15th 2021.

So if you bought a boat, car, etc you paid taxes on it. Then you better have some additional $$$ available to pay taxes on the PPP money.

 

[lbhsbz]

The thing is. We only do events 40/50 a month . Every month for 20 years . Not one booking since January . So really we felt these lock downs since February .
open bowl or open play we tried , some weekends $200 some $40 . Open play is The biggest waste of time .
At this point , it's for sale ,
If it doesn't sell and if I make it through , we will reopen one day .
People are scarred to death . To do anything indoors . So no bookings .

I have come to grips with it . It's okay . I have already moved on emotionally . We have a few interested parties to buy . Just waiting on offers . Keeping fingers crossed .

Cut the roof off....outdoor, COVID compliant bowling

 

[LargeOrangeFont]

Damn LOA, sorry to read this, but glad to hear you have other possible jobs lined up.

Wifey was also laid off and then her small employer tried to get a PPP loan but they were denied, so wifey went to a competitor for about 10% less pay.

The State promoted me and said congrats on your promotion, but we're taking away 10% for the next two years.

Things are getting tough for sure.

Good luck with your new gig!

Thanks! And congrats on the promotion and subsequent pay cut lol. It’s a bummer but good that you can make it through the uncertainty.

 

[brgrcru]

Cut the roof off....outdoor, COVID compliant bowling

Lol
I thought about it .

 

[Looking Glass]

Damn LOA, sorry to read this, but glad to hear you have other possible jobs lined up.

Wifey was also laid off and then her small employer tried to get a PPP loan but they were denied, so wifey went to a competitor for about 10% less pay.

The State promoted me and said congrats on your promotion, but we're taking away 10% for the next two years.

Things are getting tough for sure.

Good luck with your new gig!

CLASSIC!!, your wife's Employer needed the Help and is denied. Then some of these "GREEDY" I just need another Boat, Vehicle, Home, Vacation Home, A Pool. You know Just have to have it.

I would be a Very Nasty Judge if any of these (FILL IN) ever appeared in front of me.

The "KILLER" is The More they get the More they Want. Then Flaunt it.

 

[ChumpChange]

Damn LOA, sorry to read this, but glad to hear you have other possible jobs lined up.

Wifey was also laid off and then her small employer tried to get a PPP loan but they were denied, so wifey went to a competitor for about 10% less pay.

The State promoted me and said congrats on your promotion, but we're taking away 10% for the next two years.

Things are getting tough for sure.

Good luck with your new gig!

Call me and let me know the details. They're still taking applications.

 

[brgrcru]

I have thought about You and Your Wife often and do Say a Prayer for you two. I promise will remember you People when I have an opportunity to speak to anyone who is running for Office. I have some Questions for them.

Thank you . Prayer gives me the confidence , in myself, that life , America and God will remain resilient .

 

[ssc]

I spoke to my banker, who I have known for years. Filled out the app and they got it approved. I wasn't sure how the situation was going to affect my business. When they sent me the actual loan docs, there was plenty of language about audits etc. By that time it was clear that my gross had dropped a bit, but nothing substantial. I also keep a healthy reserve, even though I am retired and don't work. My kid has taken it over, but I am still financially liable. I figured the money should go to someone who really needed it. When I read about the slime bags who just took advantage of the program, it angers me.

Cheers, Steve

 

[Looking Glass]

I couldn't lie, cheat and steal to have fancier toys, couldn't face my wife and kids...
I'd rather work a minimum wage job then be like that.
I dont care what somebody has if they sold their soul to get it.

I know a guy who works for Sam's and has seen this deal for years. They buy a new big screen T-V and then after the Bowl Season return it. We have talked and asked each other,what they say to their Children when they come home from school and the Tube is gone? I guess another Lie don't matter.

 

[Looking Glass]

I spoke to my banker, who I have known for years. Filled out the app and they got it approved. I wasn't sure how the situation was going to affect my business. When they sent me the actual loan docs, there was plenty of language about audits etc. By that time it was clear that my gross had dropped a bit, but nothing substantial. I also keep a healthy reserve, even though I am retired and don't work. My kid has taken it over, but I am still financially liable. I figured the money should go to someone who really needed it. When I read about the slime bags who just took advantage of the program, it angers me.

Cheers, Steve

The ones I Love attempting to Justify by stating this or that. The fact is they are lying to them self and Eveeryone else.

Karma, is real.!!

 

[JFMFG]

I hope they rot and I can buy up their toys. We took the PPP loan and every cent plus more out of my pocket went to my employees. Zero went to rent, tools, materials. Glad I can sleep at night.

Same with me as soon as it hit my account I transferred it from the operating account to the payroll account and there it sat until it was gone

 

[OCMerrill]

Yea I did get laid off 2 weeks ago. Tech is still doing OK at the moment. Not as good as a year ago, but business is moving along.

We were forecasting a down year for 2020 before COVID in my patch, as 2019 was great and we were able to pull many 2020 deals forward. My rep and I were the top performing sales team in the company.

I was owed some past compensation from 2019 and after 7 months into 2020, they agreed to pay me, then laid me off a week later. they laid off 6-7 people in total I believe.

The job market in my sector still has opportunities. I’ve already had a couple interviews, and one more tomorrow.

Let me know when your ready to start day drinking.

 

[LargeOrangeFont]

Let me know when your ready to start day drinking.

As soon as I get back to town in another week. Day drinking in Havasu now!

 

[78Southwind]

I would imagine it should be on the balance sheet of any publicly traded company?

But here you go:

Tracking PPP: Search Every Company Approved for Federal Loans - ProPublica

As part of the Paycheck Protection Program, the federal government has provided hundreds of billions in financial support to banks to make low-interest loans to companies and nonprofit organizations in response to the economic devastation caused by the coronavirus pandemic. Search more than 11...

projects.propublica.org

Have fun

A friend of mine was furloughed and then a few weeks later laid-off along with another co-worker. My friend just found a job ad to hire their replacements that was dated several weeks after they were laid-off. The ad is still on the website but looks to have been filled. So I looked up the company on the database and sure enough they received a PPP loan. The funny thing is that it says that 15 jobs were retained so it looks like they hired replacements without even giving those that were laid-off a chance to come back.

 

[LargeOrangeFont]

A friend of mine was furloughed and then a few weeks later laid-off along with another co-worker. My friend just found a job ad to hire their replacements that was dated several weeks after they were laid-off. The ad is still on the website but looks to have been filled. So I looked up the company on the database and sure enough they received a PPP loan. The funny thing is that it says that 15 jobs were retained so it looks like they hired replacements without even giving those that were laid-off a chance to come back.

easy way to get people in for lower pay..

 

[78Southwind]

easy way to get people in for lower pay..

My thought exactly...But check this out.

Rules for rehiring employees for PPP loan forgiveness


1. Do I have to rehire the same employees I laid off?
No. Borrowers can hire new employees to restore and maintain their original average full time employee headcount. The PPP loan forgiveness application doesn’t differentiate between new and old employees on the payroll.

2. Will my lender reduce my forgiveness amount if an employee rejects my offer to rehire them?
No. A borrower’s loan forgiveness amount will not be reduced if the borrower is able to document in good faith an inability to rehire employees and an inability to hire a similarly qualified individual for the unfilled position before December 31, 2020.

A borrower whose employee has rejected their offer will need to show that they have:

• made a written offer in good faith to rehire an employee for the same salary or wages and the same number of hours as compared to the last pay period before the reduction in hours;
• the offer was rejected by the employee; and
• the borrower has records documenting the offer and the rejection.

If the borrower can show that they were unable to rehire their employee because the employee rejected their offer, the borrower’s loan forgiveness will not be reduced.

It’s important to note that employees who reject offers of re-employment may forfeit their eligibility for continued unemployment compensation. Borrowers are required to inform their state unemployment insurance office of any employee’s rejected rehire offer within 30 days of the employee’s rejection of the offer. Please refer to your state’s relevant employment development department for more information.

 

[78Southwind]

A friend of mine was furloughed and then a little over a month later laid-off along with another co-worker. My friend just found a job ad to hire their replacements that was dated several weeks after they were laid-off. The ad is still on the website but looks to have been filled. So I looked up the company on the database and sure enough they received a PPP loan. The funny thing is that it says that 15 jobs were retained so it looks like they hired replacements without even giving those that were laid-off a chance to come back.

My understanding is that the PPP loan is not fully forgivable if the employees were not given an offer to come back to work. The employer must have a written rejection letter/email from the employee to hire another person to replace the laid-off employee.

So it gets even stranger. My friend just found out they were kicked out of some database program that gave them access to their payroll information. So they created another account with their information since they like to use the program to get quicker access to their W-2. When they went back into the program they noticed that their termination (lay-off) date had been changed to a date that they were still working. I don't like to assume so who knows what the reason is... but I will just leave this here PPP.

 

[Englewood]

PPP Fraud is gonna be absolutely MASSIVE!

I may have been told about a person buying a new DCB and $1.4m Havasu house who got a huge PPP loan. Taxpayers will eat 75% of that cost.

 

[HCP3]

PPP Fraud is gonna be absolutely MASSIVE!

I may have been told about a person buying a new DCB and $1.4m Havasu house who got a huge PPP loan. Taxpayers will eat 75% of that cost.

How do people like that sleep at night?

 

[LargeOrangeFont]

How to people like that sleep at night?

They don’t care. It is very easy to take the PPP loan, put it into the business, then take “washed” money back out of the business to buy stuff.

Honestly we don’t know the situation. Is a persons supposed to spend all of their personal assets to support their business? A PPP loan was offered that perhaps shored up their business. Now they went out and bought a boat and a house because they were sure they had enough capital to keep the business afloat. I see no crime or moral dilemma there. Not everyone wants to spend themselves into bankruptcy for their business.

Again, the .gov didn’t establish any benchmarks with regard to actual need of the PPP money and loans, so this is what happens.

 

[Englewood]

How to people like that sleep at night?

I've heard some crazy stories about it already from my business-owner friends. It's bad...Straight up free money that will be extremely hard to prove was spent erroneously.

A personal friend went to their accountant for some routine stuff and the accountant asks them if they applied for the PPP loan. They said No since they didn't feel that they were struggling. The accountant has them apply through QuickBooks, and bam. $150k in their account in 3 days. All they have to do is pay their employees with the PPP money and then take a distribution. 75-100% paid by all of us.

I'm not gonna Judge their situation or choices but I know this will be a HOT issue in the years to come. I think the bigger issue is that the money was so readily available and with so little qualification standards. I guess when the world's biggest economies are about to crash, you have to move quickly.

 

[702sandman]

Same shit as the bail out money in 07, 08 ...they got the money and the executives got bonuses....wtf !!

 

[EmpirE231]

The PPP loans were available to any business.... So you could have been, say a framing/construction company, that is busier than ever and business never slowed down. They get their PPP loan and put it into the business..... but if business never really slowed down, it just turned into a massive bonus / profit for the business that year.

IDK how it'll all play out, but on the flip side, that business that never really slowed down, could really slow down 2 months from now (still due to the covid shutdown) and they will be glad they got that PPP loan to offer more life support. at the end of the day EVERY business will be affected by this... some got hit tight off the bat, others will getting their share soon.

 

[LargeOrangeFont]

The PPP loans were available to any business.... So you could have been, say a framing/construction company, that is busier than ever and business never slowed down. They get their PPP loan and put it into the business..... but if business never really slowed down, it just turned into a massive bonus / profit for the business that year.

IDK how it'll all play out, but on the flip side, that business that never really slowed down, could really slow down 2 months from now (still due to the covid shutdown) and they will be glad they got that PPP loan to offer more life support. at the end of the day EVERY business will be affected by this... some got hit tight off the bat, others will getting their share soon.

Wrong. Those business owners should be ashamed of themselves for trying to smartly run their busineses.

 

[ChumpChange]

at the end of the day EVERY business will be affected by this... some got hit tight off the bat, others will getting their share soon.

Yup. I know some that were rockin and now that supply chain issues are coming to fruition, things are slowing down.

 

[EmpirE231]

Yup. I know some that were rockin and now that supply chain issues are coming to fruition, things are slowing down.

It will all catch up, and to the businesses that took that PPP money and looked at it as a bonus, and got a new boat, new car, new watch etc.... they will be feeling the pain when that slow down catches up.

 

[EmpirE231]

Wrong. Those business owners should be ashamed of themselves for trying to smartly run their busineses.

I'm sure some businesses will be shady, and get away with it......... which is why they should investigate all the loans like they were supposed to from the get go.

But govt, being so inefficient at what they do would waste more money doing the verification work, that it is cheaper for them to just wipe out any loan below 150k! That is crazy.

 

[Done-it-again]

In the end everyone who received PPP money just added that to the end of the year profit.... If you are rocking and didn't slow and received big PPP money, get ready for taxes...

 

[77charger]

How do people like that sleep at night?

Same way they do every night thinking about how they are gonna fuck someone over the next day for greed and business.

 

[Havasu blue label]

It all comes to a end when taxes are due and they go thru a 10 year audit

 

[PlanB]

Looks like the end to the $600.00 a month has had a dramatic effect on the crowds at the lake. Today was the slowest day I have seen on the water in months, especially for a Thursday. No easy up cooler draggers in the channel. Hopefully the shit show has ended, at least for now.

 

[DMF]

Looks like the end to the $600.00 a month has had a dramatic effect on the crowds at the lake. Today was the slowest day I have seen on the water in months, especially for a Thursday. No easy up cooler draggers in the channel. Hopefully the shit show has ended, at least for now.

The extra $600 a week could have something to do with less people at the lake. I am thinking it is more due to a lot of schools are back in session now. Even with online learning, they still have to be in front of a computer.

 

[LargeOrangeFont]

Looks like the end to the $600.00 a month has had a dramatic effect on the crowds at the lake. Today was the slowest day I have seen on the water in months, especially for a Thursday. No easy up cooler draggers in the channel. Hopefully the shit show has ended, at least for now.

The $600 has nothing to do with it. Kids are back in school virtually now.

 

[PlanB]

The $600 has nothing to do with it. Kids are back in school virtually now.

I don’t think it’s all virtual school. It’s probably a combination of both, but it was pretty dead today. We actually parked in the channel because there was so few people and boats. Whatever the reason, I will take it.

 

[Havasu blue label]

Havasu does have internet reality is setting in

 

[LargeOrangeFont]

I don’t think it’s all virtual school. It’s probably a combination of both, but it was pretty dead today. We actually parked in the channel because there was so few people and boats. Whatever the reason, I will take it.

I don’t think people were funding their lake trips off $600/week with no job. It’s a $1000 minimum ordeal to stay for 3 days by the time you factor in gas, food, and lodging.

These people still have all their bills, rent/mortgage and car payments to pay.

The people that were at the river were the ones with jobs and kids not in sports this summer.

 

[LargeOrangeFont]

Havasu does have internet reality is setting in

No one is going to have their kids in a hotel or airBNB all week sitting around doing their schooling. They are going to go home.

 

[PlanB]

I don’t think people were funding their lake trips off $600/week with no job. It’s a $1000 minimum ordeal to stay for 3 days by the time you factor in gas, food, and lodging.

These people still have all their bills, rent/mortgage and car payments to pay.

The people that were at the river were the ones with jobs and kids not in sports this summer.

I disagree, especially for the locals that were hanging out in the channel without boats in the middle of the week. Also, $2400.00 a month is decent play money for a lot of people to head out to the lake and party on a rental boat for a couple of days. I don’t believe it’s pure coincidence that the money ending and the crowds thinning are happening at exactly the same time.

 

[LargeOrangeFont]

I disagree, especially for the locals that were hanging out in the channel without boats in the middle of the week. Also, $2400.00 a month is decent play money for a lot of people to head out to the lake and party on a rental boat for a couple of days. I don’t believe it’s pure coincidence that the money ending and the crowds thinning are happening at exactly the same time.

Locals without boats is a whole other deal. I can take an EZ up to the channel every day for free.

I’m sure some people used some of their unemployment money to head to the river, that is all they could do this summers so why not.

But rental boats weren’t filling the marina parking lots. Restaurants were packed, bars were full when opened, hotels were full, rental houses were full. The boaters this summer had time and money this summer. These weren’t a bunch of McDonalds workers out there.

$2400 only goes so far.. you’ll burn that in a week renting a house with a pool, eating out every night and boating.

Every person I talked to this summer had much the same story.. the money and time savings from not doing kid’s activities and not taking expensive vacations funded their multiple river trips this summer.

 

[DLC]

I've heard some crazy stories about it already from my business-owner friends. It's bad...Straight up free money that will be extremely hard to prove was spent erroneously.

A personal friend went to their accountant for some routine stuff and the accountant asks them if they applied for the PPP loan. They said No since they didn't feel that they were struggling. The accountant has them apply through QuickBooks, and bam. $150k in their account in 3 days. All they have to do is pay their employees with the PPP money and then take a distribution. 75-100% paid by all of us.

I'm not gonna Judge their situation or choices but I know this will be a HOT issue in the years to come. I think the bigger issue is that the money was so readily available and with so little qualification standards. I guess when the world's biggest economies are about to crash, you have to move quickly.

the situation is the bank that Gave them the loan will audit their business accounts and any unusual Activity’s non standard To the business, “they the owners“ will have to account for. The owners signed for the loans and specific language is in the loan agreements, the loans were a “Movable object“ at the time they were given meaning the terms were not 100% set In stone as closing dates and timelines were not defined at the exact time loans funded.

IT AGAINST THE LAY TO LAY OFF SOMEONE WHILE LOOKING FOR THEIR REPLACEMENT.... the system is designed to pop up question areas. A huge amount of fraud will have to take place.

it still fresh and it’s actually fraud against the FEDERAL Government, no stone will BE LEFT UNTURNED....

keep in mind this is a federal program and the OIG Office of the Inspector General is already looking into fraud case, they may not get every one but in 6 -12 months they will have quite a few.

the money is owed until it is certified it is not, how that happens I’m not sure, maybe next years taxes....

 

[Bobby V]

No one is going to have their kids in a hotel or airBNB all week sitting around doing their schooling. They are going to go home.

That and the internet in Havasu sucks lately. It was out most of the day on Sat. And its not getting much better.

 

[77charger]

I don’t think people were funding their lake trips off $600/week with no job. It’s a $1000 minimum ordeal to stay for 3 days by the time you factor in gas, food, and lodging.

These people still have all their bills, rent/mortgage and car payments to pay.

The people that were at the river were the ones with jobs and kids not in sports this summer.

1k minimum not for us. Cheap room under 100 per night 40 for launching the boat 150 gas in truck round trip 80 in boat at most and dinner were still under 1k.Was even cheaper when we camped.But i can see 1k for some easily with 200 per night rooms then yeh

 

[DLC]

In the end everyone who received PPP money just added that to the end of the year profit.... If you are rocking and didn't slow and received big PPP money, get ready for taxes...

in the loan docs you also had to show a need for the loan, is it a form of profit / capitol yes .... BUT .... the IRS hasn’t said How they going to check that box in next year taxes!

so there are alot of moving items To keep an eye out for....

 

[Looking Glass]

the situation is the bank that Gave them the loan will audit their business accounts and any unusual Activity’s non standard To the business, “they the owners“ will have to account for. The owners signed for the loans and specific language is in the loan agreements, the loans were a “Movable object“ at the time they were given meaning the terms were not 100% set In stone as closing dates and timelines were not defined at the exact time loans funded.

IT AGAINST THE LAY TO LAY OFF SOMEONE WHILE LOOKING FOR THEIR REPLACEMENT.... the system is designed to pop up question areas. A huge amount of fraud will have to take place.

it still fresh and it’s actually fraud against the FEDERAL Government, no stone will BE LEFT UNTURNED....

keep in mind this is a federal program and the OIG Office of the Inspector General is already looking into fraud case, they may not get every one but in 6 -12 months they will have quite a few.

the money is owed until it is certified it is not, how that happens I’m not sure, maybe next years taxes....

If they investigate anything like the IRS, better be able to document everything.

 

[LargeOrangeFont]

That and the internet in Havasu sucks lately. It was out most of the day on Sat. And its not getting much better.

Yea I’m back to having small 30 min outages again every couple days.

 

[LargeOrangeFont]

1k minimum not for us. Cheap room under 100 per night 40 for launching the boat 150 gas in truck round trip 80 in boat at most and dinner were still under 1k.Was even cheaper when we camped.But i can see 1k for some easily with 200 per night rooms then yeh

Yep it can be done on the cheap, but I don’t see many of these new boats everyone is buying with PPP funds out in front of Days Inn though.

Even in your example, you are in for $600 for just the weekend. The notion that everyone out there is simply unemployed just doesn’t pass the sniff test in my mind.