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Army Lt. traffic stop

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Trying to find the description I read earlier, but if there was no plate at all dealer or otherwise it make a ton more sense.

The news headline is whats racist - How did the cops know the race of guy?

"Police Pull Guns On Afro-Latino Army Officer In Traffic Stop"

There is nothing on the back of the Tahoe, you can see that clearly in the video.
 

FROGMAN524

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This is what happens when you’re not as cautious. Lots of cops in my family and they’re either retired or in drop now and retiring soon and none of them would recommend the line of work for any reason.


Sounds like it wasn't a random stop but planned and they were going to arrest him once outside the vehicle.

Man who killed officer had long criminal history » Albuquerque Journal (abqjournal.com)


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t&y

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"Police Pull Guns On Afro-Latino Army Officer In Traffic Stop"

That headline is all you need to know. It is the narrative being pushed by the media to keep a portion of this country enraged and distract from the real issues.

The headline should have read "Driver of SUV lead police on short pursuit, then disobeyed commands and was pepper sprayed upon his arrest"
 

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That headline is all you need to know. It is the narrative being pushed by the media to keep a portion of this country enraged and distract from the real issues.

The headline should have read "Driver of SUV lead police on short pursuit, then disobeyed commands and was pepper sprayed upon his arrest"


Media creates news - all they care about is clicks.
 

Taboma

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That headline is all you need to know. It is the narrative being pushed by the media to keep a portion of this country enraged and distract from the real issues.

The headline should have read "Driver of SUV lead police on short pursuit, then disobeyed commands and was pepper sprayed upon his arrest"

So you don't agree with the San Diego Police recommendation when at night in a rural area to put on your flashers and proceed to a well it area ?
Because ever since the tragic case of Cara Knott here in San Diego ( A couple of miles from our home at the time), that's been exactly what's been recommended, especially for woman traveling alone at night.
But then you can call it am attempted evasion and " Pursuit" :rolleyes:
 

Uncle Dave

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There is nothing on the back of the Tahoe, you can see that clearly in the video.


When I first looked at this I read somewhere that there were dealer plates on the back, but I cant find that now.

I cant tell what if anything is there, looks like a circle in the middle. of the plate area
 

t&y

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This is what happens when you’re not as cautious. Lots of cops in my family and they’re either retired or in drop now and retiring soon and none of them would recommend the line of work for any reason.



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Everyone should watch this to the end. They included video from a bystander who initially was cheering on the suspect. That plays out daily in the media and unfortunately at times in here. Once they saw what was really going on you can hear the tone in their voice change. Should be a good lesson to many (some in here included) in not judging what you are seeing in these videos without knowing all the facts.

Happens daily now with first "amendment auditors" and random bystanders showing up and talking shit to cops just doing their jobs.
 

Uncle Dave

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So you don't agree with the San Diego Police recommendation when at night in a rural area to put on your flashers and proceed to a well it area ?
Because ever since the tragic case of Cara Knott here in San Diego ( A couple of miles from our home at the time), that's been exactly what's been recommended, especially for woman traveling alone at night.
But then you can call it am attempted evasion and " Pursuit" :rolleyes:

FELONY evasion.
 

Taboma

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To the contrary you get people from the peanut gallery in the lounge taking pot shots and saying things they can’t back up with facts.
A lot different down in P&G ,this is a government job, needs to go in the PNG section where we can actually discuss things with Facts and be objective versus the “ when I got pulled over” cycle of nonsense. that is a true circle jerk

This is what's referred to as an exchange of opinions, a conversation, 90% of what I've read in the P&G isn't backed up by FACTS, but rather political opinion pieces from each sides favorite publications -- - that does not make them fact.
 

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Moral of this story, don't wear seatbelts while getting pulled over. it could cause death if trying to unbuckle when cops ordering you to get out of the car 🤔 . No seatbelt could cost a few bucks in fines but make it easier to comply and get out of the car when asked by the cops. With all scenarios, solders kill solders on base, cops don't have a clue who they dealing with. However, cops get all wound up while approaching a suspect vehicle so it's a job I would not want myself.
 

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This is what's referred to as an exchange of opinions, a conversation, 90% of what I've read in the P&G isn't backed up by FACTS, but rather political opinion pieces from each sides favorite publications -- - that does not make them fact.
P&G keeps the riff raff pot shots at Cops out period
Show me a thread since 09’ on Cops /UOF that didn’t go sideways ?
very few have stayed on topic.
I’m down there a lot.
You want to show me and my posts in P&G that weren’t based on fact, send it
Show me
 

t&y

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Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha...... @LowRiver2 Perfect timing.....

So you don't agree with the San Diego Police recommendation when at night in a rural area to put on your flashers and proceed to a well it area ?
Because ever since the tragic case of Cara Knott here in San Diego ( A couple of miles from our home at the time), that's been exactly what's been recommended, especially for woman traveling alone at night.
But then you can call it am attempted evasion and " Pursuit" :rolleyes:

Where did I say I don't agree with pulling into a well lit area? Thank you for providing a real life example of someone standing on the sidelines, making assumptions about my career, with no actual knowledge of the subject matter or words used. I'll keep the kiddy gloves on for yah buddy, because I am honestly thanking you here for providing and example we can work with.

For starters, if I said it, please quote where I said I do not agree with a person pulling into a well lit area.

What you don't know is most departments have standard protocol for what we refer to as a "pursuit" and what constitutes one. In this case, it is said he slowed down, put his hazards on, and drove for a couple minutes to a well lit area. Cool, but that falls very clearly into a "Pursuit" in my department and most others that I am aware of. So Yes, in my eyes and most other cops eyes, that was a Pursuit. Here is where the layman's understanding of these things gets pretty sketchy, so I'll try to explain. Just because that was technically a pursuit (IMHO) does not mean the driver will be charged with "Evading" once the vehicle stops, driver detained, and that investigation is concluded. In this case, they followed most of the protocol I would generally follow in regards to their radio traffic, broadcast of their felony Traffic Stop Detention, and verbal command for the driver to exit the vehicle. Once the driver is out, some departments like to prone them out there next to the car (Not my go to by any means) and others will give them commands to exit, walk backwards, and then kneel in close proximity to the police vehicles prior to handcuffing. Those officers chose to adapt, flank him from behind cover, and approached. Everything that driver did following that initial stop is what led to his arrest. He is blatantly wrong in stating he can not be removed from his vehicle on a traffic stop. But obviously, he knows the law... hahahahaha... so he was dealt with in my opinion properly. Simple use of O.C., removal from vehicle, and arrest.

Every single bit of what happened after he pulled into the parking lot could have been avoided if he had simply followed the commands, exited the vehicle, and obeyed the orders he was given.

If he had done that, and if I were handling, it would have been a simple explanation after confirming vehicle registration and identification, and he would have been on his way.
 

Christopher Lucero

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backed up by FACTS
to amplify, 'backed up by facts' is the interpretation of one minds 'ontology' - it's set of things it knows - which is the full measure of what it has taken in and retained, and will not include what that mind rejects.

Most often, people express their opinion and fully believe it is fact, when it is far from that.

Opinion is formed from the ontology, the imperfect incomplete set, and in that mind, the 'opinion' - becomes - 'fact', even though it is an imperfect incomplete set and not in any way demonstrable fact.
 
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ArizonaKevin

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Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha...... @LowRiver2 Perfect timing.....



Where did I say I don't agree with pulling into a well lit area? Thank you for providing a real life example of someone standing on the sidelines, making assumptions about my career, with no actual knowledge of the subject matter or words used. I'll keep the kiddy gloves on for yah buddy, because I am honestly thanking you here for providing and example we can work with.

For starters, if I said it, please quote where I said I do not agree with a person pulling into a well lit area.

What you don't know is most departments have standard protocol for what we refer to as a "pursuit" and what constitutes one. In this case, it is said he slowed down, put his hazards on, and drove for a couple minutes to a well lit area. Cool, but that falls very clearly into a "Pursuit" in my department and most others that I am aware of. So Yes, in my eyes and most other cops eyes, that was a Pursuit. Here is where the layman's understanding of these things gets pretty sketchy, so I'll try to explain. Just because that was technically a pursuit (IMHO) does not mean the driver will be charged with "Evading" once the vehicle stops, driver detained, and that investigation is concluded. In this case, they followed most of the protocol I would generally follow in regards to their radio traffic, broadcast of their felony Traffic Stop Detention, and verbal command for the driver to exit the vehicle. Once the driver is out, some departments like to prone them out there next to the car (Not my go to by any means) and others will give them commands to exit, walk backwards, and then kneel in close proximity to the police vehicles prior to handcuffing. Those officers chose to adapt, flank him from behind cover, and approached. Everything that driver did following that initial stop is what led to his arrest. He is blatantly wrong in stating he can not be removed from his vehicle on a traffic stop. But obviously, he knows the law... hahahahaha... so he was dealt with in my opinion properly. Simple use of O.C., removal from vehicle, and arrest.

Every single bit of what happened after he pulled into the parking lot could have been avoided if he had simply followed the commands, exited the vehicle, and obeyed the orders he was given.

If he had done that, and if I were handling, it would have been a simple explanation after confirming vehicle registration and identification, and he would have been on his way.

To you and @LowRiver2 I have heard a recommendation from people to drive to a well lit area during a traffic stop and calling 911 at the time so they can communicate to the officer what you are doing. Would that avoid the "pursuit" and have it not be a felony stop when the vehicle gets to a well lit area?
 

t&y

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so, was the perp was never charged with any crime. Maybe he had to do a fixit on the tint? Was that the PC?

this was from five months ago, only news now because of the lawsuit, right?
It's not hard to track. Law suit filed, too many other real life issues across the country, so lets distract with drama that will receive a lot of attention in the media.
 

Taboma

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Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha...... @LowRiver2 Perfect timing.....



Where did I say I don't agree with pulling into a well lit area? Thank you for providing a real life example of someone standing on the sidelines, making assumptions about my career, with no actual knowledge of the subject matter or words used. I'll keep the kiddy gloves on for yah buddy, because I am honestly thanking you here for providing and example we can work with.

For starters, if I said it, please quote where I said I do not agree with a person pulling into a well lit area.

What you don't know is most departments have standard protocol for what we refer to as a "pursuit" and what constitutes one. In this case, it is said he slowed down, put his hazards on, and drove for a couple minutes to a well lit area. Cool, but that falls very clearly into a "Pursuit" in my department and most others that I am aware of. So Yes, in my eyes and most other cops eyes, that was a Pursuit. Here is where the layman's understanding of these things gets pretty sketchy, so I'll try to explain. Just because that was technically a pursuit (IMHO) does not mean the driver will be charged with "Evading" once the vehicle stops, driver detained, and that investigation is concluded. In this case, they followed most of the protocol I would generally follow in regards to their radio traffic, broadcast of their felony Traffic Stop Detention, and verbal command for the driver to exit the vehicle. Once the driver is out, some departments like to prone them out there next to the car (Not my go to by any means) and others will give them commands to exit, walk backwards, and then kneel in close proximity to the police vehicles prior to handcuffing. Those officers chose to adapt, flank him from behind cover, and approached. Everything that driver did following that initial stop is what led to his arrest. He is blatantly wrong in stating he can not be removed from his vehicle on a traffic stop. But obviously, he knows the law... hahahahaha... so he was dealt with in my opinion properly. Simple use of O.C., removal from vehicle, and arrest.

Every single bit of what happened after he pulled into the parking lot could have been avoided if he had simply followed the commands, exited the vehicle, and obeyed the orders he was given.

If he had done that, and if I were handling, it would have been a simple explanation after confirming vehicle registration and identification, and he would have been on his way.

" The headline should have read "Driver of SUV lead police on short pursuit "
The short pursuit, in other words, calling it a pursuit, instead of stating they followed the vehicle to a well lit area comment caused me to question YOU. The question wasn't an accusation, I asked if YOU agreed with this concept or this particular recommendation that's been often stated by the media as being recommended by the police.

YES OR NO
 

t&y

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To you and @LowRiver2 I have heard a recommendation from people to drive to a well lit area during a traffic stop and calling 911 at the time so they can communicate to the officer what you are doing. Would that avoid the "pursuit" and have it not be a felony stop when the vehicle gets to a well lit area?
Don't confuse "Pursuit" with criminal charges. I would have zero issue with a person doing what you are suggesting, but they still need to follow commands given by the officers at termination of that "Pursuit". It would be up to the officer with all the information provided whether they utilize a high risk traffic stop, or simple walk up.
 

LargeOrangeFont

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To you and @LowRiver2 I have heard a recommendation from people to drive to a well lit area during a traffic stop and calling 911 at the time so they can communicate to the officer what you are doing. Would that avoid the "pursuit" and have it not be a felony stop when the vehicle gets to a well lit area?

Doubt it. The cops are going to follow their protocol for a pursuit would be my guess.
 

t&y

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" The headline should have read "Driver of SUV lead police on short pursuit "
The short pursuit, in other words, calling it a pursuit, instead of stating they followed the vehicle to a well lit area comment caused me to question YOU. The question wasn't an accusation, I asked if YOU agreed with this concept or this particular recommendation that's been often stated by the media as being recommended by the police.

YES OR NO
You started with "so you don't agree with". You can play semantics if you want, but I think I gave you a fair answer to that accusation.

Do I agree with a driver pulling into a well lit area? Sure, go for it. But that is a separate issue on whether it is a pursuit or not. AGAIN.. this is where your actual understanding of police work is on display.
 

LowRiver2

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To you and @LowRiver2 I have heard a recommendation from people to drive to a well lit area during a traffic stop and calling 911 at the time so they can communicate to the officer what you are doing. Would that avoid the "pursuit" and have it not be a felony stop when the vehicle gets to a well lit area?
It can help, nothing os 100%.

That tactic was used once where the driver called 911 and said he was arrested for making bombs.
Changed the dynamic quickly.
The driver wanted a suicide by Cop and he jumped out of the car running at Officers at the end of the pursuit pointing what turned out to be a cell phone.
In the time of the pursuit, Dispatch called my on call Supervisor , who happened to have been with me on rendering safe the actual IED that this suspect made a year earlier.
Imagine dealing with that before the suspect stopped.

Point is as a driver , use common sense, and all the things mentioned for a safe outcome (comply)

If you truly think the PD car trying to pull you over is not real, call 911, drive normal, and look for a lighted place to pull over.
I’m with @t&y : If this driver was stationed at this base for any amount of time, I highly suspect he knew what the local PD cars looked like, and was not “afraid” of what was going to happen.

Training?
Of course, there are huge gaps in training across the US in PD work.
 

ArizonaKevin

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Don't confuse "Pursuit" with criminal charges. I would have zero issue with a person doing what you are suggesting, but they still need to follow commands given by the officers at termination of that "Pursuit". It would be up to the officer with all the information provided whether they utilize a high risk traffic stop, or simple walk up.

Appreciate the input, would communication from dispatch that the person getting pulled over is moving to a well lit area help lower some tension in that situation? Obviously that probably changes from officer to officer. This is more curiosity on my side.
 

LowRiver2

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Don't confuse "Pursuit" with criminal charges. I would have zero issue with a person doing what you are suggesting, but they still need to follow commands given by the officers at termination of that "Pursuit". It would be up to the officer with all the information provided whether they utilize a high risk traffic stop, or simple walk up.
I
 
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FULL STATEMENT FROM GOV. NORTHAM:

"The incident in Windsor is disturbing and angered me – and I am directing the Virginia State Police to conduct an independent investigation. Our Commonwealth has done important work on police reform, but we must keep working to ensure Virginians are safe during interactions with police, the enforcement of laws is fair and equitable, and people are held accountable. I am inviting Army medic Lieutenant Caron Nazario to meet soon – we must all continue the larger dialogue about reform in out country."
 

Taboma

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You started with "so you don't agree with". You can play semantics if you want, but I think I gave you a fair answer to that accusation.

Do I agree with a driver pulling into a well lit area? Sure, go for it. But that is a separate issue on whether it is a pursuit or not. AGAIN.. this is where your actual understanding of police work is on display.

So your professional answer is "Sure, go for it ", that's it ?
Very helpful of you.
 

t&y

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So your professional answer is "Sure, go for it ", that's it ?
Very helpful of you.
Oh, I'm sorry.

If your question is simply; Do I agree with someone pulling into a well lit area during a traffic stop, and you only want a Yes or No... Then YES, I agree with a person pulling into a well lit area.

So having that information, can you please explain to me and everyone how my suggested headline is not factually correct. You can use as many words as you want.
 

t&y

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Appreciate the input, would communication from dispatch that the person getting pulled over is moving to a well lit area help lower some tension in that situation? Obviously that probably changes from officer to officer. This is more curiosity on my side.
For me personally, yes it would. I'm still going to proceed with caution. Times are crazy right now and the old days of those who would do harm stick out of the crowd are long gone. Every stop is a bit different and I'm not accustomed to pulling over soccer moms if that is who I see in the car if you know what I mean. Sometimes, maybe even most of the time, we have no idea who is driving.

But a bit of reality for you here in regards to timeline. Think about how long it will take you to dial 911, get the correct agency, explain your exact location and direction of travel, and identify yourself clearly enough to a dispatcher who can then try and figure out who is doing what and where. We have had people call 911 while being pulled over. In a situation where it is a broadcast "Pursuit" it makes it much easier for dispatch to connect the dots. I know the word "Pursuit" can case a traumatic reaction for some in here so I apologize in advance. 😂
 

t&y

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FULL STATEMENT FROM GOV. NORTHAM:

"The incident in Windsor is disturbing and angered me – and I am directing the Virginia State Police to conduct an independent investigation. Our Commonwealth has done important work on police reform, but we must keep working to ensure Virginians are safe during interactions with police, the enforcement of laws is fair and equitable, and people are held accountable. I am inviting Army medic Lieutenant Caron Nazario to meet soon – we must all continue the larger dialogue about reform in out country."
Translation... "I am afraid for the residents of my city, because if I do not condemn these legal police actions, the BLM and ANTIFA will burn shit down. Instead of utilizing this a perfect opportunity to educate the public on the importance of complying with officers commands, I will throw the officers under the bus to save face on my end."
 

Taboma

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Your chip on your shoulder for Cops appears to be getting heavy again,
Exhibit A to send this thread to P&G
Thanks for proving my point (again) lol

Oh get off your cop high horse, you don't give a shit what I or anybody else thinks, especially us lowly civilian types.

In the lounge I dig your contributions, be it work, recreation or gopher killing, almost a normal fun guy and always have.

In the P&G you revert to some holier than thou " Grand Inquisitor " role that you seem to enjoy. Because I have a choice, and I don't find it amusing, intelligent or educational, and certainly not entertaining, I no longer bother reading it.

There's only one person's posts and threads I read in the P&G, those are by Regor, because I enjoy is tilted sense of humor.
 

Christopher Lucero

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"Driver of SUV lead police on short pursuit, then disobeyed commands and was pepper sprayed upon his arrest"
That headline does not sell papers.
It does not generate click throughs or spirited conversation among citizens interested in justice...but, it is plain and factual. If only...

HOWEVER, may I ask...? During a traffic stop, aren't drivers supposed to be informed of what the violation was?

During the confrontation, what was Gutierrez's statement that summarized the moving violation or licensing or equipment violation the accused was being arrested for? I may not have seen that in the video.
 

LargeOrangeFont

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That headline does not sell papers.
It does not generate click throughs or spirited conversation among citizens interested in justice...but, it is plain and factual. If only...

HOWEVER, may I ask...? During a traffic stop, aren't drivers supposed to be informed of what the violation was?

During the confrontation, what was Gutierrez's statement that summarized the moving violation or licensing or equipment violation the accused was being arrested for? I may not have seen that in the video.

They told him a few times. Had he got out of the car 30 seconds into the video they probably would have told him by 1 minute in they pulled him over for no visible registration or plate.
 

HubbaHubbaLife

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Everyone should watch this to the end. They included video from a bystander who initially was cheering on the suspect. That plays out daily in the media and unfortunately at times in here. Once they saw what was really going on you can hear the tone in their voice change. Should be a good lesson to many (some in here included) in not judging what you are seeing in these videos without knowing all the facts.

Happens daily now with first "amendment auditors" and random bystanders showing up and talking shit to cops just doing their jobs.
Man what a video.... so sad what society has become..... we used to say how underpaid cops are and now we say how could anyone in right mind want this job. I get the positive community service aspects but weighed against the risks I'm not seeing it as a choice I'd recommend.
 

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Again. Who is at the root problem here?? Had the suspect not resisted and obeyed the commands it would have never escalated to this point. Why do black people feel as if obeying the commands of a law enforcement officer does not apply to them? Let’s focus on the root cause of this daily behavior.
 
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t&y

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That headline does not sell papers.
It does not generate click throughs or spirited conversation among citizens interested in justice...but, it is plain and factual. If only...

HOWEVER, may I ask...? During a traffic stop, aren't drivers supposed to be informed of what the violation was?

Yes they are. But this is where text book understanding and real life application merge in a gray area.

During the confrontation, what was Gutierrez's statement that summarized the moving violation or licensing or equipment violation the accused was being arrested for? I may not have seen that in the video.

And.... back to the gray. Pretty sure they told him what he was stopped for (I think it was the younger guy that said it), but that was not what would have triggered an "arrest". Every traffic stop is a detention, and can legally be argued as a seizure if they comply to your commands and stop. But the officer in this video initially said, "You are under arrest," but then back it down to "You are being detained" after the guy refused to follow commands. It's semantics really. This is where hairs are split and why lawyers make so much money. This would be a case in my eyes where a simply infraction turned into a misdemeanor arrest either under the Cali 148 PC sections or 2800 VC sections. Of course it would be spun to arresting for the minimalist violation like they are doing with Fentanyl Floyd and the 20 bill, while completely ignoring all the other valid and obvious offenses he committed after the initial contact.
 

t&y

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Man what a video.... so sad what society has become..... we used to say how underpaid cops are and now we say how could anyone in right mind want this job. I get the positive community service aspects but weighed against the risks I'm not seeing it as a choice I'd recommend.
It's a fucking fantastic job. Very rewarding at times, but definitely not as easy as it used to be, and not for everyone. No way in hell do I want any of my family or friends to be in this profession in it's current state.
 

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Oh get off your cop high horse, you don't give a shit what I or anybody else thinks, especially us lowly civilian types.

Now you've done it, you little peasant, you're part of the peanut gallery he speaks of while on his high horse. :rolleyes: :eek: ;)
 

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They told him a few times. Had he got out of the car 30 seconds into the video they probably would have told him by 1 minute in they pulled him over for no visible registration or plate.
Exactly, and at that point he would have been cited (fix it ticket) or simply told to fix the problem and been on his way a few minutes later. Officer says step out of vehicle, your reply should be " yes sir I'm existing the vehicle " not
"I'm not getting out, I don't have to get out for a traffic violation". BTW when you make a comment like that, you already know ( or think you know) why your being stopped so continuing to ask "what's going on" is stupid and confrontational.
 

Christopher Lucero

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Yes they are. But this is where text book understanding and real life application merge in a gray area.



And.... back to the gray. Pretty sure they told him what he was stopped for (I think it was the younger guy that said it), but that was not what would have triggered an "arrest". Every traffic stop is a detention, and can legally be argued as a seizure if they comply to your commands and stop. But the officer in this video initially said, "You are under arrest," but then back it down to "You are being detained" after the guy refused to follow commands. It's semantics really. This is where hairs are split and why lawyers make so much money. This would be a case in my eyes where a simply infraction turned into a misdemeanor arrest either under the Cali 148 PC sections or 2800 VC sections. Of course it would be spun to arresting for the minimalist violation like they are doing with Fentanyl Floyd and the 20 bill, while completely ignoring all the other valid and obvious offenses he committed after the initial contact.
Thanks. that's good input.

bad optics of the shouting cops compared to the army Lt. demeanor of quiet nonviolent nocooperation...kind of 'Gandhi in a SUV'... very creative, that.

The shouting made the 'force' element more than necessary in that situation. Heard but not obeyed is a power struggle between the resistor and the enforcer.

Was there any reason for the police to believe that they were not being heard, and that was why things were loud? what do you think?
 

Christopher Lucero

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Show me on the doll where Lowriver2 hurt you🤣
The fact the “likes” on your post are from the guy who insinuated workers comp fraud on my co worker and the other guy who thinks he’s smarter than every inmate is telling of who thinks what on RDP.
You three were made for each other🤣
hmmm. who has the chip after all. the ruse plays out the same every time. That is good to know.
 

Taboma

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Show me on the doll where Lowriver2 hurt you🤣

You didn't, cuz my folks taught me young, do not ride in cars with strange policemen and not to talk to them unless it's about gopher killing and or your attorney is present, they're not your friend, they'll just act like it. 👍

Well except these guys, especially the very nice officer who pick my wife and I up while thumbing on I40 east of Kingman after our POS razor left us stranded in the mountain wilderness. Much respect and gratitude right there. 👍👍👍


state-trooper.jpg
 

t&y

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Thanks. that's good input.

bad optics of the shouting cops compared to the army Lt. demeanor of quiet nonviolent nocooperation...kind of 'Gandhi in a SUV'... very creative, that.

The shouting made the 'force' element more than necessary in that situation. Heard but not obeyed is a power struggle between the resistor and the enforcer.

Was there any reason for the police to believe that they were not being heard, and that was why things were loud? what do you think?
We give loud clear commands for a reason. Same reason we may use the PA in situations where it is not necessarily needed. A big part of that is we don't want there to be any excuse of not hearing commands, and it covers the peanut gallery that will claim we said this or that without actually knowing what was said.

That officer was amped up for sure, but nothing excessive in my mind.
 

Christopher Lucero

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nothing excessive in my mind.
OK, maybe that is where we are having a divergence in the public perception vs. the raw practice of enforcement. Just like a surgeon must be able to hadle gory unsavory facts in his work, a member of enforcement must handle every escalated situation in the same way, per training. now that the dissonance between citizen and officer are plain in this case, would you say that a re-calibration of training under the circumstances of this and other similar traffic stops (Gandhi in a SUV) would garner more positive public optics...i believe that is where the Virginia governor is headed. Opinion?
 

BajaT

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Again. Who is at the root problem here?? Had the suspect not resisted and obeyed the commands it would have never escalated to this point. Why do black people feel as if obeying the commands of a law enforcement officer does not apply to them? Let’s focus on the root of the cause of this daily behavior.

Instead Lebron James throws gas on the fire stating he fears for his kids leaving the house. Common denominator is resisting/not obeying commands.

Equity: Some do not have to follow the laws and obey orders = no one gets hurt. Others continue to follow laws/orders, they don't get hurt. Problem solved......
 
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