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Toterhome vs Motorhome vs RV recomendations

cyclone

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I have an old enclosed ramp truck that i use to haul my drag boat inside of. Recently, I considered converting the inside of it into living quarters and then towing a trailer behind it with the boat inside. Seemed like a solid idea until i hooked the trailer to it. It rode horribly and didn't have enough power to climb hills very well. The CAT diesel makes 250hp and 640 lb/ft of torque My current setup works but unless I go to the expense of retrofitting an air suspension and adding another 300 lb/ft of torque to it, I can't see myself continuing to use tow the trailer behind it. On flat ground it will run 75 mph with power to spare, when i encounter a hill, I'm pretty much climbing it at 30 mph with the pedal on the floor.

who's got experience towing a 32ft or larger enclosed car trailer behind an RV or toterhome? I'm Looking for recommendations for a solid used rig at least 30ft long that will ride good and have plenty of power to go up hills. My guess is that it will need at least 900 lb-ft of torque. thanks for the advice.

-mike
 

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wallnutz

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I have an old enclosed ramp truck that i use to haul my drag boat inside of. Recently, I considered converting the inside of it into living quarters and then towing a trailer behind it with the boat inside. Seemed like a solid idea until i hooked the trailer to it. It rode horribly and didn't have enough power to climb hills very well. The CAT diesel makes 250hp and 640 lb/ft of torque My current setup works but unless I go to the expense of retrofitting an air suspension and adding another 300 lb/ft of torque to it, I can't see myself continuing to use tow the trailer behind it. On flat ground it will run 75 mph with power to spare, when i encounter a hill, I'm pretty much climbing it at 30 mph with the pedal on the floor.

who's got experience towing a 32ft or larger enclosed car trailer behind an RV or toterhome? I'm Looking for recommendations for a solid used rig around 30ft long that will ride good and have plenty of power to go up hills. My guess is that it will need at least 900 lb-ft of torque. thanks for the advice.

-mike
Your not going to find anything in the 30' range that will fit that bill. 36' will probably be the # your at for the power and the comfort for towing.
 

cyclone

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Your not going to find anything in the 30' range that will fit that bill. 36' will probably be the # your at for the power and the comfort for towing.
edited the post to say at least 30ft. that would be the minimum length im looking for.
 

fmo24

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I keep thinking @ONE-A-DAY has had some rigs along the lines of what your looking for. He may have some insight
 

Bowtiepower00

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Turn up that cat c’mon 🤠
This.

That ramp truck is super cool. Before you abandon the program, look into some injector pump upgrades to increase power. It’s definitely worth a shot before dropping big money on a Toter or Pusher. In this market, I don’t see you getting anything worth upgrading to for under 100k.
 

cyclone

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This.

That ramp truck is super cool. Before you abandon the program, look into some injector pump upgrades to increase power. It’s definitely worth a shot before dropping big money on a Toter or Pusher. In this market, I don’t see you getting anything worth upgrading to for under 100k.
im under the impression that the reliability of the CAT 3208 is going to be a problem if I turn it up. im thinking of the worst case scenario...climbing the grade through Flagstaff, AZ in July.....
 

cyclone

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12V71 swap seems like the obvious solution.
The stub nose of the truck barely has enough room for the current engine, the CAT 3208. I think the 12V71 is longer and not a practical swap.
 

goshen82

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I have a 40 ft Monaco and pull a 24ft stacker with it that weighs around 16k loaded it does good but I wish I had more power mine has a 350 and I wouldn’t buy anything less then a 450 on my next coach. If I’m loaded I normally only drop down to 45 on hills but I really only tow from orange country to glamis. If I have no trailer I can do 75 up pretty much any hill. The benefit of a toter is how much they can tow and they normally have a more power then your typical coach. There’s a couple good Facebook pages that you can find a bunch for sale on and then racing junk normally has a bunch to
 

EmpirE231

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Toter will usually get you way more towing power, but a less than ideal floor plan. Pusher will get you pretty decent towing power, with some great floor plans. My rig has the CAT C7... and when i towed a 30’ enclosed with all the sand toys in there... it did pretty dang good. Once I went to a stacker... that’s when it really slowed it down on grades.
 

Blackmagic94

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Even a class 8 diesel tractor will lose speed on a grade with a load. Part of the nature of big weight

Unloaded I can climb I-11 by lake mead at 55-65 mph. Loaded I’m 35-45 mph give or take load

Cummins x15 diesel
445 hp
1650 tq
12 speed automated manual trans
 

Bigbore500r

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@cyclone check out the forums over on Glamisdunes.com, lots of guys over there pulling stackers and big heavy trailers with diesel coaches. Probably some good real-world feedback on what engines / coaches work well and what don't.
 

MK1MOD0

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Here’s my .02 $. I had a 43“ Diesel coach. A Monaco. Here a couple things I learned. If you going this route, make sure you step up to a tag axle and the biggest motor you can get. The tag axle makes driving and towing a dream. Seriously, I towed every trip and you couldn’t even feel the extra weight. Hell the coach weighed 45k loaded. And having the extra set of brakes is very noticeable. Also, when ya step up , you get full computerized air ride suspension. They ride flat and are always adjusting for conditions. And when ya arrive you hit one button and the Coach self levels and you done. If you go to 36-38ft. You can get these features. Also being able to set the cruise control and running 55 coming up out of the desert when towing with zero problem is nice.

ps. I had a Cummins ISM. They are massive. But very reliable. 500 Hp and approx 1600 ft/lb.
 
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BRONCOBOY

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37' Tiffin Allegro Bus with cummings 450hp 1250tq two stage brake will be my next coach. I current have a Cummings 350hp with 1050tq and a single stage brake, my problem now is trying to stop a 9000lb trailer! F--n scary with a single stage exhaust brake
 
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RCDave

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37' Tiffin Allegro Bus with cummings 450hp 1250tq two stage brake will be my next coach. I current have a Cummings 350hp with 1050tq and a single stage brake, my problem now is trying to stop a 9000lb trailer! F--n scary with a single stage exhaust brake

I have a Allegro Bus 36QSP (pre dates the new 37AP)

Outstanding coach and chassis. Disc Brakes. Side Radiator. Huck Bolted Chassis. Independant front suspension. The 2 stage exhaust brake is the bomb!
 
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aj923

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I don't know a lot about motorhomes but what about a super C? My dad has one with a kodiak chassis its rated to tow 10k.
 

Blackmagic94

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I don't know a lot about motorhomes but what about a super C? My dad has one with a kodiak chassis its rated to tow 10k.

Last trip to Vegas in the semi I was following a super c with a 26-28’ enclosed Dodge Viper wrapped car hauler. He was a bit faster in the flats but at the top I-11 I passed him doing 45 and he was doing 25ish

So no they aren’t faster with a load either
 

JLG614

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Toterhomes will tow better but are way more pricey than a diesel pusher. I have an 05 country coach tag axle with a cummins isc 400. I tow a 28ft stacker loaded thats probably around 18-20k lbs loaded. I drop down to maybe 55 on the grades. Biggest thing i would look at when buying is the tag axle. They tow so much better than a single axle. Also make sure you buy a side radiator motorhome if you are towing. You can have all the power in the world but if you have a rear radiator and a trailer the radiator won't get much fresh air and will heat up
 

cyclone

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Toterhomes will tow better but are way more pricey than a diesel pusher. I have an 05 country coach tag axle with a cummins isc 400. I tow a 28ft stacker loaded thats probably around 18-20k lbs loaded. I drop down to maybe 55 on the grades. Biggest thing i would look at when buying is the tag axle. They tow so much better than a single axle. Also make sure you buy a side radiator motorhome if you are towing. You can have all the power in the world but if you have a rear radiator and a trailer the radiator won't get much fresh air and will heat up
thank you for the feedback. i was wondering about the pros/cons of a pusher vs super c and this certainly helps.
 

jones performance

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mike, garrett has had both a pusher and now a toter, so he could probably give you some great info on each. ive seen in his videos where he mentions some of the differences and he aint wrong.

to me it sounds like the amount of miles you will be driving, the driving characteristics of the rig is or should be top priority. a few of the guys i know with toters/conversions all upgraded from pusher moho's for better towing characteristics. typically twin screw setups since they also went 40' or 45' on the toter with a tag stacker.
 

MK1MOD0

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One other thing to think about. A toterhome is nowhere near as pleasant to drive. Your Sitting right above the motor. No amount of insulation will keep the noise out PERIOD ! A pusher has the motor 40ft away from you. absolutely no comparison. If you only care about towing, then get whatever ya wish. If you want a pleasant trip and comfort as you do tow, a pusher coach is a much better experience. Every toterhome I’ve been in make me think I’m in a uhaul.
 

STV_Keith

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Some of the issues you may run into are towing capacity of an older coach, and length limits. I have a 38' Foretravel with a tag axle and it's only rated for 10k bumper tow. I'm sure it will pull more, but insurance, liability and all that comes into play. Length limits also apply...Cali is 65' combined length...with a 38' coach, that only leaves 27' OAL for a trailer, which means a 22' or so. Power wise, I have the Cummins ISM 450hp/1450tq and the coach does pretty well. As with anything I've ever driven, it could use more power. :) It weighs about 34,500 fully loaded, ready to ride. I do have the Allison 4000 MHR trans with the trans retarder...that thing is the cats' ass in my opinion. I barely have to touch the service brakes in town if I run the retarder right. I will slow you down to where you don't have to use service brakes on downhills as well. Works awesome.
 

Waterjunky

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Last trip to Vegas in the semi I was following a super c with a 26-28’ enclosed Dodge Viper wrapped car hauler. He was a bit faster in the flats but at the top I-11 I passed him doing 45 and he was doing 25ish

So no they aren’t faster with a load either
So I have a super C (17 Jayco Seneca). There are basically three builders of them, two use the same Freightliner M2 chasse and cost about the same. The third uses a few different running gears and is about double (to start) in cost. That one is a beast with some crazy options but you pay dearly for them. The issue with the Jayco is that it has a great tow rating that I believe can be upped even more with a different hitch on the back, but they use the Allison 2500 trans. This trans is absolutely maxed out in bone stock configurations, the Cummins is actually detuned to work in that package and they fudged the trans ratings because Cummins wouldn't drop any more. There is a ton of power available in the motor but I am still exploring options for what to do with and how risky the trans is in these cases. The other problem is the tune that comes stock. My dog could have picked better shift points. It currently considers 1400 -1550 RPM optimal hill climbing band. I have never seen north of 2100 RPM letting it shift. This is the same motor in the new dodge trucks ..... Someone just flat screwed up on this. This should explain the hill climbs. Hoping to find a work around on this shortly. Love it otherwise

Look carefully at real world towing with a pusher. Generally they aren't built to do it and have very low rating. Even if the ratings are decent, talk to people who have them, many get real strange with any weight behind them.
 

squeezer

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Some of the issues you may run into are towing capacity of an older coach, and length limits. I have a 38' Foretravel with a tag axle and it's only rated for 10k bumper tow. I'm sure it will pull more, but insurance, liability and all that comes into play. Length limits also apply...Cali is 65' combined length...with a 38' coach, that only leaves 27' OAL for a trailer, which means a 22' or so. Power wise, I have the Cummins ISM 450hp/1450tq and the coach does pretty well. As with anything I've ever driven, it could use more power. :) It weighs about 34,500 fully loaded, ready to ride. I do have the Allison 4000 MHR trans with the trans retarder...that thing is the cats' ass in my opinion. I barely have to touch the service brakes in town if I run the retarder right. I will slow you down to where you don't have to use service brakes on downhills as well. Works awesome.


Was going to suggest a U320 as a good place to start. Not being able to go as fast as you want is one thing. Not being able to stop as fast as you want is another thing entirely... The joystick retarder is like magic!!!

(We had a non slide 36' U320, in a moment of pure insanity we sold it just before Covid hit... )
 

HBCraig

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thank you for the feedback. i was wondering about the pros/cons of a pusher vs super c and this certainly helps.
I have had both Cyclone. Class A and Super C. In my opinion I liked the C better from a ride perspective. The A was nice but not as smooth. Upside for the A is the extra room inside because of the cab configuration.
 

cyclone

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One other thing to think about. A toterhome is nowhere near as pleasant to drive. Your Sitting right above the motor. No amount of insulation will keep the noise out PERIOD ! A pusher has the motor 40ft away from you. absolutely no comparison. If you only care about towing, then get whatever ya wish. If you want a pleasant trip and comfort as you do tow, a pusher coach is a much better experience. Every toterhome I’ve been in make me think I’m in a uhaul.
that's a good point. my current truck is relatively quiet for its age but ideally the rig would be quieter and smoother. id love to get of a truck at then end of a 14 hour day behind the wheel and NOT feel like i just went to war with the road. ride quality, noise and torque are a priority. lol
 

STV_Keith

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Was going to suggest a U320 as a good place to start. Not being able to go as fast as you want is one thing. Not being able to stop as fast as you want is another thing entirely... The joystick retarder is like magic!!!
(We had a non slide 36' U320, in a moment of pure insanity we sold it just before Covid hit... )

We are very happy with our U320. 2-slide 38' with a tag. You are right about the joystick retarder.
 

DUNEFLYER

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06 42’ American Eagle, C13 Cat w/525hp/1350ftlb torque, 25’ stacker trailer. Tows like a dream but she slows to 40mph when loaded. Big motor etc..but she is a heavy pig
B6120C9E-CCD7-485E-AAF5-9B89B5DDDF29.jpeg
 

Sleek-Jet

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You need an Old Blue Bird 38DP with an 8V71T... Tag axle, two-cycle, old school class, built like a brick shithouse.

Probably still slow on the hills though.
 

fmo24

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Never saw a budget. Excellent advise on tag axle pusher if traveling with family. Can tow a house and still get up and use bathroom while going down the road. If no family, toter with a nice hauler with living quarters and garage.
We full time in a 40ft pusher towing a Jeep Wrangler. Some mountains are slow climbing but so is everyone else. Downhill exhaust brake is the key.
 

1tonfun

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Super C is usually built on an industrial chassis like a freightliner M2 and not much better than what you have now. Usually limited to an 8L engine that may advertise 400hp but only 8-900 torque. A toter home or Class 8 conversion has the true truck chassis under it and has the big HP and torque numbers. Mine is a 13L 450hp and 1650 torque. They are not fast by any means, takes a while to get all that weight rolling. Pulling the hills, it all depends on what I am towing. 2 hotrods in the trailer is a little heavier than the rail and sxs. Pulling heavy most hills will drop it somewhere between 40-50 mph. Flat towing the jeep I can run 60+ on most grades.
You do get more engine noise than you would in a pusher, especially when the fan kicks on. But, I can pull a 6% grade in the heat of the summer in AZ and not worry about over heating. My stacker was purchased from a guy that had a 400hp tag axle monaco with a side radiator and he couldn't pull the grades between Phoenix and Flagstaff with out stopping a couple of times to let the coach cool down.
IMG_2518.JPG
 
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DUNEFLYER

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question for the group.
As soon as I let off the throttle in my coach (with the engine brake on or off) it automatically lights my brake lights and activates the trailer brake controller and trailer brakes. How do I stop that? I don’t want the brake lights or trailer brakes to come on unless I hit the brake peddle.
I miss quoted earlier, my rig has 1650ftlb, still slows to 40 on steeper grades.
 

monkeyswrench

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@cyclone , That hauler was never a rocket. It's done a bunch of runs from Chatsworth to York, Pa and everywhere in between. I think Jim had it at California Car Cover for decades. Last I saw it was maybe 2006 or 07? It was "semi-retired" then, just doing car shows for years loaded with tables, chairs and a metric shit ton of dusters. Before that, it was his race hauler...until bigtime semi and 53ft Kentucky hauler. That red brick is not fast, but it used to be real dependable. Too bad it's not working out for you, really kind of a cool rig.
 

BamBam

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You could buy this one and put both boats in it and still pull a trailer. I assume you like the ramp truck idea (since you've had 4) because you can take your stuff and don't have to tow all the time. Now you're taking more stuff. Good luck in your search. I don't know if there is a perfect vehicle for any or all of us.

 

STV_Keith

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question for the group.
As soon as I let off the throttle in my coach (with the engine brake on or off) it automatically lights my brake lights and activates the trailer brake controller and trailer brakes. How do I stop that? I don’t want the brake lights or trailer brakes to come on unless I hit the brake peddle.
I miss quoted earlier, my rig has 1650ftlb, still slows to 40 on steeper grades.
You'll have to check out the wiring but there must be something coming off the throttle pedal or ECM that is wired into the brake circuit. I have the same type of issue with my transmission retarder, as it too engages the brake lights. While I still want brake lights for now (not towing a trailer with electric brakes yet), I don't want it killing the cruise control when the retarder activates on a downhill coast.
 

Bowtiepower00

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I feel like some backyard upgrades on the 3208 would be a great episode of Finnegan’s garage. Add some gauges, and turn the engine up. In stages. With real- world results. I think you can make it work. Add a pass air ride seat, and keep cruising. Will definitely be the most cost- effective idea.

You mentioned the stoneman lake grade up the I17, that’s one of the toughest towing tests in the country. Climbing it above the speed limit is tough. I’ve done it in plenty of vehicles, from class A Semis, to a Ram 2500 and toyhauler. You can’t expect to climb that kind of grade at altitude at the speed limit or above without an abundance of power. No motor home or toter is going to be running 65+ up that grade loaded.

edit: if you find a solution for cooling, the marine injectors should get you to where you need to be. Not sure about turbo upgrades. But I’m sure they can be done. The 3208 hate I see is because they can’t be resleeved in HD applications. Your application is different. And you have a manual trans- no power sucking Allison to worry about. I think you can make your current rig work, for a fraction of the price of upgrading to something newer. If nothing else, I (and many others) will eat up the content online of watching you make it work.
 
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bagged97taco

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So I have a super C (17 Jayco Seneca). There are basically three builders of them, two use the same Freightliner M2 chasse and cost about the same. The third uses a few different running gears and is about double (to start) in cost. That one is a beast with some crazy options but you pay dearly for them. The issue with the Jayco is that it has a great tow rating that I believe can be upped even more with a different hitch on the back, but they use the Allison 2500 trans. This trans is absolutely maxed out in bone stock configurations, the Cummins is actually detuned to work in that package and they fudged the trans ratings because Cummins wouldn't drop any more. There is a ton of power available in the motor but I am still exploring options for what to do with and how risky the trans is in these cases. The other problem is the tune that comes stock. My dog could have picked better shift points. It currently considers 1400 -1550 RPM optimal hill climbing band. I have never seen north of 2100 RPM letting it shift. This is the same motor in the new dodge trucks ..... Someone just flat screwed up on this. This should explain the hill climbs. Hoping to find a work around on this shortly. Love it otherwise

Look carefully at real world towing with a pusher. Generally they aren't built to do it and have very low rating. Even if the ratings are decent, talk to people who have them, many get real strange with any weight behind them.
Keep me up to date on what you find out. I have an 18 Seneca and looking for more power but worried about the 2500 trans. Wish it had the 3000 Alison.
 

monkeyswrench

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Keep me up to date on what you find out. I have an 18 Seneca and looking for more power but worried about the 2500 trans. Wish it had the 3000 Alison.
I've been working on a few M2's lately, and yes, they seem to be pigs. My buddy up here just recently got hooked up with a "tuner" that happens to be a cannuck. They just recently may or may not have done some... things. Apparently this guy is pretty slick. My buddy has all the wizzbang Cummins computer stuff, and then this other guy does the magic from 3000 miles away. I don't know how it works, but he probably can change shift points and such as well.
 
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