“Professionals” ripping people off…

[81eliminator]

A buddy of mien had the generator in his motorhome quit, checked the float bowl and it was dry, Called his normal RV repair and they told him they couldn't look at it for 4-5 weeks. He had a planned trip in a week. called another RV place and they told him they could squeeze him in and the fuel pump replacement would be $500., Local RV parts store wanted $160 for a fuel pump. I had him go on line, fuel pump was $28 and $9 for the filter. Helped him replace it, it's 2 hose clamps, 2 bolts and 2 wire connectors.

 

[rivermobster]

I’m just astonished at the fact that people have pool heaters.

I've never used mine on my pool.

On my spa? On a regular basis.

 

[rivermobster]

I could teach you how to do all in one afternoon and the $700 would cover 4 years of service and the tools to do it forever.

What a rip off. I'll teach you for 600.00!

 

[Hammer]

I struggle with these scenarios. If I tell you it cost $200 an hour for me to diagnose the problem, I’m taking advantage in the eyes of the customer.

If I replace a broken part for $500 plus labor we are the hero. And we really took advantage.

What I really hate is charging someone an hourly rate to not fix anything.

Edit: perfect scenario.

I show up to a home and the garage power, garage fridge/freezer, HVAC FAU and garage openers are all dead.

I throw a meter on the panel and every circuit is good to go. I’m thinking a bad GFCI but every single one I look at is good to go.

Finally I see up in the corner a janky junction box with a door bell transformer. I ask if the Ring Doorbell is new? Of course our “friend” helped us install it.

Well they didn’t make up the box correctly and the hots arced and burned up the wire nut. A new wire nut and 3 turns with my linemans and the issue was fixed.

So what would you charge for roughly 30mins of diagnosis plus travel time?

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If your nice, 2 hour trip charge plus time on site.


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[hallett21]

If your nice, 2 hour trip charge plus time on site.


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That’s what I came up with. I did pull apart the panel to make sure everything was looking ok.

$500 wire nut sucks though.

Or for $500 I fixed your Fridge, Freezer, FAU and garage door openers


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[Hammer]

That’s why I won’t do it and I work union. I sleep easy at night. I’m sure somehow that contractor can justify the cost of the patch. Me I just can’t see it

VIC- not to bring up the same old union argument. Some would argue that the union you are loyal too rip people off for the hourly rate they charge. A non union shop can do the same work for 30% less.

You are contradicting yourself when “complaining” about that 10 minute patch job cost at $500.00. Then saying you sleep well at night knowing you aren’t ripping someone off. You know what your union rate plus company overhead would be? They would charge a 4 hour minimum.

Bottom line- pay for the experience you need to get the problem fixed, or fix it yourself.


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[BHC Vic]

What a rip off. I'll teach you for 600.00!

I’m going to need to install an ac so we can do all this in a cold garage

 

[rivermobster]

I’m going to need to install an ac so we can do all this in a cold garage

500.00. Then.

 

[BHC Vic]

VIC- not to bring up the same old union argument. Some would argue that the union you are loyal too rip people off for the hourly rate they charge. A non union hop can do the same work for 30% less.

You are contradicting yourself when “complaining” about that 10 minute patch job cost at $500.00. Then saying you sleep well at night knowing you aren’t ripping someone off. You know what your union rate plus company overheard would be? They would charge a 4 hour minimum.

Bottom line- pay for the experience you need to get the problem fixed, or fix it yourself.


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I’d say contractors absolutely get paid too much while the workers don’t get paid enough. A company owner will say the guys get paid too much, while the guys do all the work and the owner makes all the money. He gets Boats, sand toys, etc. but they take all the risk. I get it. That’s the age old battle. I don’t work for a contractor anymore. It’s the way the world works I get it. This is all owners. Not just inion or non union. Both owners are getting rich and the workers get by. Union just helps the worker get some better benefits to live on. So yes the union shop cost more but the worker made out a little better. Goes back to I know I’ll never get rich but ME personally I’m not ripping anyone off. Honest pay for an honest days work.

 

[rivermobster]

VIC- not to bring up the same old union argument. Some would argue that the union you are loyal too rip people off for the hourly rate they charge. A non union hop can do the same work for 30% less.

You are contradicting yourself when “complaining” about that 10 minute patch job cost at $500.00. Then saying you sleep well at night knowing you aren’t ripping someone off. You know what your union rate plus company overheard would be? They would charge a 4 hour minimum.

Bottom line- pay for the experience you need to get the problem fixed, or fix it yourself.


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BNAG!!!

Speaking of unions...

Did you all know that they are the reason for Labor Day??

"Labor Day 2021 | HISTORY" https://www.history.com/.amp/topics/holidays/labor-day-1

 

[spectra3279]

I’d say contractors absolutely get paid too much while the workers don’t get paid enough. A company owner will say the guys get paid too much, while the guys do all the work and the owner makes all the money. He gets Boats, sand toys, etc. but they take all the risk. I get it. That’s the age old battle. I don’t work for a contractor anymore. It’s the way the world works I get it. This is all owners. Not just inion or non union. Both owners are getting rich and the workers get by. Union just helps the worker get some better benefits to live on. So yes the union shop cost more but the worker made out a little better. Goes back to I know I’ll never get rich but ME personally I’m not ripping anyone off. Honest pay for an honest days work.

The union itself rips off the person/company. Then they rip off the union workers.

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[Bobby V]

VIC- not to bring up the same old union argument. Some would argue that the union you are loyal too rip people off for the hourly rate they charge. A non union hop can do the same work for 30% less.

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Actually Hammer the union agrees with the company thru a CBA what they are paying the employee. The company sets the hourly rate That they charge. We have different rates for repairs and change orders. Yes we usually charge a 4 hr minimum if we aren’t on site.
BTW..Are you on the Capitol Records project?

 

[hallett21]

I’d say contractors absolutely get paid too much while the workers don’t get paid enough. A company owner will say the guys get paid too much, while the guys do all the work and the owner makes all the money. He gets Boats, sand toys, etc. but they take all the risk. I get it. That’s the age old battle. I don’t work for a contractor anymore. It’s the way the world works I get it. This is all owners. Not just inion or non union. Both owners are getting rich and the workers get by. Union just helps the worker get some better benefits to live on. So yes the union shop cost more but the worker made out a little better. Goes back to I know I’ll never get rich but ME personally I’m not ripping anyone off. Honest pay for an honest days work.

Using your patch scenario.

A union taper would get paid 4 hours minimum the moment he touched his tools right?

Package is roughly $65 an hour?

So paying the taper will cost $260 before payroll, taxes, work comp etc. $20 for the bag of 20min, drywall and tape. At cost the patch cost $300ish on Union scale.


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[Bobby V]

The union itself rips off the person/company. Then they rip off the union workers.

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Wow!!. Close to 40 years in the Union and 38 years at the company I work for. Glad I’m not in one of those unions..lol

 

[BHC Vic]

Using your patch scenario.

A union taper would get paid 4 hours minimum the moment he touched his tools right?

Package is roughly $65 an hour?

So paying the taper will cost $260 before payroll, taxes, work comp etc. $20 for the bag of 20min, drywall and tape. At cost the patch cost $300ish on Union scale.


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We talking carpenter or painter because it’s 2 different unions and two way different packages. A painter makes a whole lot less and I’m not sure what their show up time is if they get it

 

[Flying_Lavey]

One of my pet peeves with A/C service work is when a board is the diagnosis and no further explanation. The couple of techs I have trained, I have taught them that even if it's the board, I want to hear WHY it's bad or what has failed. A circuit board is an expensive part and I don't like just suggesting an expensive part to be replaced without 100% certainty that is the cause.

I.e. the circuit board needs to be replaced because the blower motor high speed relay has failed that is soldered onto the board.

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[hallett21]

We talking carpenter or painter because it’s 2 different unions and two way different packages. A painter makes a whole lot less and I’m not sure what their show up time is if they get it

I can never remember lol. Let’s say carpenter only because I’d call a drywall contractor to patch vs a painter.




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[Hammer]

I’d say contractors absolutely get paid too much while the workers don’t get paid enough. A company owner will say the guys get paid too much, while the guys do all the work and the owner makes all the money. He gets Boats, sand toys, etc. but they take all the risk. I get it. That’s the age old battle. I don’t work for a contractor anymore. It’s the way the world works I get it. This is all owners. Not just inion or non union. Both owners are getting rich and the workers get by. Union just helps the worker get some better benefits to live on. So yes the union shop cost more but the worker made out a little better. Goes back to I know I’ll never get rich but ME personally I’m not ripping anyone off. Honest pay for an honest days work.

The only key information you are missing in this post is the worker won’t end up in court over litigation for said workers work. Ownership is another level of liability and responsibility. They don’t get to turn their phone off at 5 when everyone clocks out. They take the risk of getting sued by an employee or client. They earned the right to charge a profit how they see fit for said risk.


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[BHC Vic]

Wow!!. Close to 40 years in the Union and 38 years at the company I work for. Glad I’m not in one of those unions..lol

Our pension just got a huge bump. I’ve never been more stoked to be union in my life. 200 dollar a year credits going forward with the chance to top at 249 depending on it which i always work plenty of. We also get a sliding scale so 1/12 of a credit for every 100 hours over 1800. Basically could make a 30 year career a 23 year career in a perfect world. Also get retro credits of 150 going 10 years back. Plus annuity bumps and they are going to match my 401k. Things are looking good

 

[lbhsbz]

One of my pet peeves with A/C service work is when a board is the diagnosis and no further explanation. The couple of techs I have trained, I have taught them that even if it's the board, I want to hear WHY it's bad or what has failed. A circuit board is an expensive part and I don't like just suggesting an expensive part to be replaced without 100% certainty that is the cause.

I.e. the circuit board needs to be replaced because the blower motor high speed relay has failed that is soldered onto the board.

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Then desolder it and solder a new one in. Should take less than 20 minutes after diagnosis.

 

[BHC Vic]

The only key information you are missing in this post is the worker won’t end up in court over litigation for said workers work. Ownership is another level of liability and responsibility. They don’t get to turn their phone off at 5 when everyone clocks out. They take the risk of getting sued by an employee or client. They earned the right to charge a profit how they see fit for said risk.


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Exactly why it’s not worth it for me. I have too big a heart and don’t have a cut throat mentality when it comes to billing people. I would suck at it. But I get it for sure Even doing tickets. My old super would say fuck Vic you can’t just do favors for everyone. I know that’s not how you make money but I’m a sucker

 

[BHC Vic]

I can never remember lol. Let’s say carpenter only because I’d call a drywall contractor to patch vs a painter.




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Then You are pretty spot on but the non union Mexican man shouldn’t be charging union wages

 

[Hammer]

Actually Hammer the union agrees with the company thru a CBA what they are paying the employee. The company sets the hourly rate That they charge. We have different rates for repairs and change orders. Yes we usually charge a 4 hr minimum if we aren’t on site.
BTW..Are you on the Capitol Records project?

I am not on the Capital Records project.

I understand a little bit on how the CBA works and how they negotiate hourly rates. When the unions hourly rate demands aren’t met by the company owners. They go on strike. Until owners agree to pay said unions honest and fair wage package for the employee. Lol

Personally I don’t care if it’s union or not. As long as the client pays the bills and change orders. [emoji106]


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[Hammer]

We talking carpenter or painter because it’s 2 different unions and two way different packages. A painter makes a whole lot less and I’m not sure what their show up time is if they get it

Both. A drywall guy isn’t allowed to work out of classification and put framing in the wall to support the drywall patch. Carpenter can’t hang drywall because it’s out of classification. He’s taking work from the “drywall guy” .

My guys can do it all and get paid well!!! One stop shop. [emoji23]


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[BHC Vic]

I am not on the Capital Records project.

I understand a little bit on how the CBA works and how they negotiate hourly rates. When the unions hourly rate demands aren’t met by the company owners. They go on strike. Until owners agree to pay said unions honest and fair wage package for the employee. Lol

Personally I don’t care if it’s union or not. As long as the client pays the bills and change orders. [emoji106]


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I can’t remember the last time there was a strike. Our contract is being negotiated right now. Should know by November delegate meeting what we are getting for the next contract which will probably be a 4 year contract.

 

[Flying_Lavey]

Then desolder it and solder a new one in. Should take less than 20 minutes after diagnosis.

No. MAYBE if it was an old board where there are about a dozen items on it, but that is not the case anymore. It would be FAR too easy to completely fuck up the board and possibly other components with an attempted relay replacement thus costing more. Back to balancing liability versus benefit.

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[BHC Vic]

Both. A drywall guy isn’t allowed to work out of classification and put framing in the wall to support the drywall patch. Carpenter can’t hang drywall because it’s out of classification. He’s taking work from the “drywall guy” .

My guys can do it all and get paid well!!! One stop shop. [emoji23]


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That’s actually not true. A painter can’t frame or do drywall. A carpenter. Can do it all. The painters union is hanging on by a thread. There’s a big vote real soon. Not looking good for them but we will absorb them.

Gc’s like McCarthy hensel Phelps Swinterton. The all use carpenters. That’s dirt to door knobs

 

[hallett21]

Then desolder it and solder a new one in. Should take less than 20 minutes after diagnosis.

That would work if the client agreed to the contractor only fixing that one issue.

The problem is if another relay goes out then what? All the client heard was the “relay” was re soldered.

Now the contractor is a liar because something else failed.

Or you can install a new board that comes with a warranty from the supplier.

2 service calls to solder probably equals one control board swap.


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[Hammer]

That’s actually not true. A painter can’t frame or do drywall. A carpenter. Can do it all. The painters union is hanging on by a thread. There’s a big vote real soon. Not looking good for them but we will absorb them.

Gc’s like McCarthy hensel Phelps Swinterton. The all use carpenters. That’s dirt to door knobs

I’m just messing around. I don’t really give two shits what your classifications “allow” you to do.

It will take a job walk from the PM to determine the scope before the job gets done anyway.

Don’t mind me… I’m just a “scab” giving you union guys a hard time…

“Jack of all trades, master of none”

Disclaimer- I’ll never hate on a union mans pension/pay. Nothing wrong with knowing where you stand long term retirement wise. Just don’t get caught doing side jobs with that union card! [emoji6]


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[Bobby V]

I am not on the Capital Records project.

I understand a little bit on how the CBA works and how they negotiate hourly rates. When the unions hourly r




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I am not on the Capital Records project.

I understand a little bit on how the CBA works and how they negotiate hourly rates. When the unions hourly rate demands aren’t met by the company owners. They go on strike. Until owners agree to pay said unions honest and fair wage package for the employee. Lol

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In my 40 years of going thru CBA contracts we have only went on strike twice. Once in 1982 and again in 2018. Neither time did the owners or the workers come out ahead. But both were fair contracts. Our current contract expired last Wed. The offer agreed with the owners was $12.75 over 5 years. Great offer. The young millennials think they can get more and voted it down. We will see who gets what in the next couple weeks.

 

[rivermobster]

I had a guy bring me a sandrail one day...

He called on the phone first, and told me he had takin it to six different shops, and none of them would touch it. I told him to bring it.

It had some Crazy ass circuit board, controlling everything on the car. The board was all busted up, and he wanted to know if I could fix it.

I said...

Sure! But that board is going in the trash, and I'm gonna rewire the car from scratch.

He drove it out of our shop about a month later. He was Stoked to have his car running again after sitting for six years.

Some things are just not worth fixing.

 

[BHC Vic]

I’m just messing around. I don’t really give two shits what your classifications “allow” you to do.

It will take a job walk from the PM to determine the scope before the job gets done anyway.

Don’t mind me… I’m just a “scab” giving you union guys a hard time…

“Jack of all trades, master of none”

Disclaimer- I’ll never hate on a union mans pension/pay. Nothing wrong with knowing where you stand long term retirement wise. Just don’t get caught doing side jobs with that union card! [emoji6]


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I’ve gotten my hand slapped for doing side jobs. I just work more ot now. I have no problem with non inion guys. We are all the same. Our goal isn’t to trash the non union guys it’s to bring them onboard

 

[Hammer]

In my 40 years of going thru CBA contracts we have only went on strike twice. Once in 1982 and again in 2018. Neither time did the owners or the workers come out ahead. But both were fair contracts. Our current contract expired last Wed. The offer agreed with the owners was $12.75 over 5 years. Great offer. The young millennials think they can get more and voted it down. We will see who gets what in the next couple weeks.

That’s pretty good offer if you ask me. We are running out of real estate to build/develop high rises that typically require union contractors. With the “work from home craze” developers and corporations aren’t going to NEED high end office space or retail centers long term. That means less work for high end commercial contractors. I’d be signing that offer. [emoji2369]



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[Hammer]

I’ve gotten my hand slapped for doing side jobs. I just work more ot now. I have no problem with non inion guys. We are all the same. Our goal isn’t to trash the non union guys it’s to bring them onboard [emoji12]

And picket non union job sites! [emoji106]


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[BHC Vic]

And picket non union job sites! [emoji106]


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That’s pretty rare now a days too. By that time it’s too late. You aren’t going to flip a job at that stage. We spend most our time at city council meetings. We get them before the project is even approved.

 

[Hammer]

That’s pretty rare now a days too. By that time it’s too late. You aren’t going to flip a job at that stage. We spend most our time at city council meetings. We get them before the project is even approved.

It’s not about flipping a job. It’s about shutting one down. It’s unsafe to cross a picket line to get on a job. All it’s hurting is a guys ability to earn a living and provide for their family until you are gone…

Anyways. I could argue the pros and cons of union/non union all day. I’ve been on both sides..

Back to topic…

You get what you pay for. Pay a licensed contractor to fix your stuff.


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[Bobby V]

That’s pretty rare now a days too. By that time it’s too late. You aren’t going to flip a job at that stage. We spend most our time at city council meetings. We get them before the project is even approved.

Yep…Did you see the new head guy of the Building Trades is a ex Fire Sprinkler BA from Yorba Linda..

 

[LuauLounge]

Board level repairs are a thing of the past unless replacement boards are unavailable.
Had a Onan Marine generator that ran great until it stopped. Sometimes it would start right up again, other times it would start again in an hour. Control board had 4 or 5 relays that were all triggered by temp or pressure. Replacement solder in relays were $5, replaced them all. Never happened again.

 

[lbhsbz]

No. MAYBE if it was an old board where there are about a dozen items on it, but that is not the case anymore. It would be FAR too easy to completely fuck up the board and possibly other components with an attempted relay replacement thus costing more. Back to balancing liability versus benefit.

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Or…back to incompetence.

 

[TrollerDave]

So what should a licensed HVAC contractor charge?


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They can charge whatever they want, though I thought the $3500 for the board was a bit excessive. I understand there is a cost to run a business, especially in CA. I can imagine the process of dealing with customers can be frustrating as well.
The reason for my post is my neighbor got charged for a sales pitch. If they would have paid for a new board, which wasn’t needed, it still would not have worked. The guy didn’t diagnose the problem.

 

[TrollerDave]

They can charge whatever they want, though I thought the $3500 for the board was a bit excessive. I understand there is a cost to run a business, especially in CA. I can imagine the process of dealing with customers can be frustrating as well.
The reason for my post is my neighbor got charged for a sales pitch. If they would have paid for a new board, which wasn’t needed, it still would not have worked. The guy didn’t diagnose the problem.

By the way, that 5-10 mins “diagnosis”/sales pitch cost him $75.

 

[WhatExit?]

I know what it costs to run a business.

I also know that when a contractor does the right thing (which today means, "doesn't gouge") they'll be rewarded with a good reputation and lots more business.

If a contractor/repairman can't cover his costs by the price of his service call (travel time, vehicle costs, etc.) and the hourly rate plus parts then something's wrong with how they're doing business IMO

 

[WhatExit?]

My 90 year old dad had a toilet that was leaking from a seal. Roto-Router company charges my dad $2,340 to replace a fucking toilet. This is just one of many incidents I found out about after the fact when I went to visit and looks at all the repair receipts. The handyman that fixed odds n ends, the pool man, the gardener replaced a whole sprinkler system that was replaced less than 5 yrs ago etc thousand and thousands.

This is elder abuse as far as I see it! I ended up going after everyone for everything, in many different ways to settle this stealing and never happen again.
My dad and mom where teachers, they don’t have the extra money and really felt violated after they realized how bad they where taken advantage of.

Keep a good eye out for the older ones that need help, they are the most venerable, including phone scams-
A scammer called a few days ago, and said his grandson was in jail and needed bail money to get out. Thank God my sister was there to deal with this shit!

You're right. It is elder abuse.

Did you get Roto Rooter to make good on their rip off?

 

[Looking Glass]

My 90 year old dad had a toilet that was leaking from a seal. Roto-Router company charges my dad $2,340 to replace a fucking toilet. This is just one of many incidents I found out about after the fact when I went to visit and looks at all the repair receipts. The handyman that fixed odds n ends, the pool man, the gardener replaced a whole sprinkler system that was replaced less than 5 yrs ago etc thousand and thousands.

This is elder abuse as far as I see it! I ended up going after everyone for everything, in many different ways to settle this stealing and never happen again.
My dad and mom where teachers, they don’t have the extra money and really felt violated after they realized how bad they where taken advantage of.

Keep a good eye out for the older ones that need help, they are the most venerable, including phone scams-
A scammer called a few days ago, and said his grandson was in jail and needed bail money to get out. Thank God my sister was there to deal with this shit!

Handyman, WOW, what a Catch All Term. Most of these Clowns could not change a Light Bulb and then attempt repairs they have No Clue what they are doing, But sure know how to charge. Non Licensed Crooks.

 

[welldigger00]

Let me tell ya how fun it is trying to collect after drilling a brand new well that is dry. “We don’t provide the water, just the hole and the equipment” doesn’t seem to go over all that good when people are pissed at you. You can hire a witch, or a Geo tech, or even pray to the lord. If the water ain’t there, it ain’t there. I still have to pay the guys, buy the fuel, pay the gangsters in April.


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[FreeBird236]

It was Roto-Rooter of Glendale Ca, you bet I got every penny from them fuckin thieves and rest of those cocksuckers steeling from my parents!

Most companies are middle eastern (Armenian) owned, where my parents live.

We took over there finances and hiring trades after this happened. that has helped ease some headaches for all of us.

Any company can do rip you off, but those chains are the worst.

 

[SoCalDave]

When I was the service manager for the number one injection molding machine manufacturer in the world customers would call requesting a service tech to visit them and fix their broken down machine. I would request a PO from them at a labor rate of $1500 a day plus any expenses (meals). The tech would be at the customer troubleshooting the issue and a times it would take all day if not more before the issue got resolved. Most customers would call me at the end of the day stating my tech hadn't fix the issue yet and wanted to know when he will be done that it shouldn't take that long to fix. I would just tell them "look your the one that called for assistance if it we're that easy you should have done it yourself".
The worst ones were Nigara Bottling and Nestle Waters, they were always disputing the service charges and would get the sales person involved which made for major headaches for me. I would just tell the salesman "fine take out of your budget".

 

[hallett21]

Let me tell ya how fun it is trying to collect after drilling a brand new well that is dry. “We don’t provide the water, just the hole and the equipment” doesn’t seem to go over all that good when people are pissed at you. You can hire a witch, or a Geo tech, or even pray to the lord. If the water ain’t there, it ain’t there. I still have to pay the guys, buy the fuel, pay the gangsters in April.


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I couldn’t imagine that lol


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[Flying_Lavey]

Or…back to incompetence.

Not incompetence one bit. You find a service tech that can make that repair in the field on a modern board and you found yourself a damn unicorn. These are extremely finite boards that would require magnifying glasses and such to do. One of those techs I trained used to build circuit boards for a living and was damn good at it. Even he said its really not a feasible field repair. It would even be difficult in a shop and at that point would cost as much or more than a new board.

Any more condescending comments on the subject?

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[LargeOrangeFont]

What a rip off. I'll teach you for 600.00!

I was going to teach him for free you thief.