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When does solar make sense?

Xtrmwakeboarder

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Looking for input from the experts and users on here. I've heard solar doesn't make much sense in TX, but after getting my first bill from Coserv, I thought I'd double check.
  • ~3,300 square feet house
  • N/S Facing
  • Charging of electric car maybe once a week
  • No pool yet
  • Single story
  • 2 AC units, one on each side
    • One side at 74 24/7
    • The other side is at 74 during the day and cranked to the max at night. It's supposed to hit 60, but it's never been below 66 because it's still hot AF at night
  • Lights are rarely on. It's only two of us
3,163 kWh resulting in $440.93 bill + additional BS fees for a total of $476.30

I'd like to get a whole house backup and was leaning towards a NG generator, but with these bills, does solar + battery backup make sense?

@BasilHayden @Ace in the Hole
 

Done-it-again

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Looking for input from the experts and users on here. I've heard solar doesn't make much sense in TX, but after getting my first bill from Coserv, I thought I'd double check.
  • ~3,300 square feet house
  • N/S Facing
  • Charging of electric car maybe once a week
  • No pool yet
  • Single story
  • 2 AC units, one on each side
    • One side at 74 24/7
    • The other side is at 74 during the day and cranked to the max at night. It's supposed to hit 60, but it's never been below 66 because it's still hot AF at night
  • Lights are rarely on. It's only two of us
3,163 kWh resulting in $440.93 bill + additional BS fees for a total of $476.30

I'd like to get a whole house backup and was leaning towards a NG generator, but with these bills, does solar + battery backup make sense?

@BasilHayden @Ace in the Hole
I’m not a solar expert. What is the KW rate?

Remember, that usuage would be $750+ back home.
 

Ultra...Good

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Looking for input from the experts and users on here. I've heard solar doesn't make much sense in TX, but after getting my first bill from Coserv, I thought I'd double check.
  • ~3,300 square feet house
  • N/S Facing
  • Charging of electric car maybe once a week
  • No pool yet
  • Single story
  • 2 AC units, one on each side
    • One side at 74 24/7
    • The other side is at 74 during the day and cranked to the max at night. It's supposed to hit 60, but it's never been below 66 because it's still hot AF at night
  • Lights are rarely on. It's only two of us
3,163 kWh resulting in $440.93 bill + additional BS fees for a total of $476.30

I'd like to get a whole house backup and was leaning towards a NG generator, but with these bills, does solar + battery backup make sense?

@BasilHayden @Ace in the Hole

What are your dryer and water heater running on?

For the amount you are using, it does not sound bad what you are paying. I use half of that between 3 places and probably pay the same. 1 place is 3 phase commercial and they charge me a lot more for the commercial place between rate and connection.

Best bet is to get some estimates and crunch some #'s. Cannot run solar at night, unless you have battery(s). And what will it cost you to retrofit compared to having all the mechanical installed during construction? I am not a solar expert, just some thoughts.
 

Xtrmwakeboarder

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What are your dryer and water heater running on?

For the amount you are using, it does not sound bad what you are paying. I use half of that between 3 places and probably pay the same. 1 place is 3 phase commercial and they charge me a lot more for the commercial place between rate and connection.

Best bet is to get some estimates and crunch some #'s. Cannot run solar at night, unless you have battery(s). And what will it cost you to retrofit compared to having all the mechanical installed during construction? I am not a solar expert, just some thoughts.
Everything is electric out here. It's only the two of us, so not a ton of showers or washing stuff.
 

bowtiejunkie

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We’re up the road from you in Oncor and serviced through Reliant. The kWh rates in TX have in many cases doubled or tripled since a year ago (depending on the plan). We locked in at avg $0.097 kWh (energy used + delivery) fixed until May 2023. Current Reliant plans I’ve seen are $0.25 kWh all in fixed 12 months. Huge increase!

We used 1918 kWh last bill in a 2-story 3038 sq ft, one 5-ton unit. 78 up / 77 down thermostat settings. Lights burning bright everywhere. Total bill of $192. Solar makes zero sense (money wise) at 9.7 cents a kWh. Your 3100 kwh seems high. One thing I’ve learned here in TX, is people crank the AC!! lol. I start freezing at 76 stat setting. July and Aug bills are the highest of the year, so keep that in mind. I’d wait a year to see how your usage averages out over 12 months.

Natural gas bill is running $63/mo. In summer.

I’m thinking solar is going to be more attractive with kWh rates north of 30 cents for sure. Probably lower though, although I haven’t run any numbers. Hoping by next May, electric rates are lower than current offerings when we need to renew our plan.
 

Ultra...Good

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Everything is electric out here. It's only the two of us, so not a ton of showers or washing stuff.

Yeah, wow, you are using a ton of electric. Assuming also on a well?

As far as the temps you keep the place at, that is insanely low. Is it really humid where you are? It is where I am and I run a dehumidifier with a/c and I keep the place about 80 and very dry, very comfortable with little humidity. I also run a humidifier in the winter and will be in shorts and t shirt at 65 all winter long.

Thinking outsude the box, even if you go all out solar.
 

bowtiejunkie

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Here’s our 2021 usage (bars) and 2020 (line). We moved here May 2020, so truncated year. Note that the average high temp for July 2021 bill was 92*. For July 2022 bill it was 99*. This year has been a burner.

8A63816D-71DD-4DD9-BF10-79DBA0DBB7DA.png
 

Xtrmwakeboarder

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Yeah, wow, you are using a ton of electric. Assuming also on a well?

As far as the temps you keep the place at, that is insanely low. Is it really humid where you are? It is where I am and I run a dehumidifier with a/c and I keep the place about 80 and very dry, very comfortable with little humidity. I also run a humidifier in the winter and will be in shorts and t shirt at 65 all winter long.

Thinking outsude the box, even if you go all out solar.
No well, just a normal development out here. My first water bill was $640, but that's another story. "Builder will be rectifying those issues."

I'm in N TX, so it's not that humid. At least it hasn't been for the month I've been here. I sleep hot, so even 66 with a fan at full speed sucks for me. I think I'd melt at 80. My wife is the opposite and would probably turn on the damn heat if she could.
 
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TPC

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Ford Dealers all have F150 EVs demos to test drive.
Go drive one and then ask yourself if EVs will be in your future.

It’ll be way more to your liking than you expect.

Try the 577 hp Kia EV6 too. A steamer.

Even if you don’t buy these brands and if you do roll EV home charging is unique and should be considered in your savings.
 
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Xtrmwakeboarder

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Here’s our 2021 usage (bars) and 2020 (line). We moved here May 2020, so truncated year. Note that the average high temp for July 2021 bill was 92*. For July 2022 bill it was 99*. This year has been a burner.

View attachment 1143498
Yah, coming in when we did is probably the worst time to get an idea of where our bill should be. Over 100 damn near every day we've been here.
 

Xtrmwakeboarder

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Ford Dealers all have F150 EVs demos to test drive.
Go drive one and then ask yourself if EVs will be in your future.

It’ll be way more to your liking than you expect.

Try the 577 hp Kia EV6 too. A steamer.

Even if you don’t buy these brands and if you do roll EV home charging is unique and should be considered in your savings.
I'm trying to decrease my electric bill, not increase it! Haha Don't you have a powerwall? If so, how do you like it?

Love my Tesla, but I don't see myself as an all-electric household anytime soon. Too many disadvantages.
 

LargeOrangeFont

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I'm trying to decrease my electric bill, not increase it! Haha Don't you have a powerwall? If so, how do you like it?

Love my Tesla, but I don't see myself as an all-electric household anytime soon. Too many disadvantages.

I can’t see spending $200k+ on stuff to save a hundred or 2 bucks on power and gas every month :)
 

mjc

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It is a lot cheaper if you can self install it. I did my own install for about 1/2 what my estimate was. Makes it a lot more affordable. Minimum bill in havasu is 20.93 and That is all I have paid for 5 years now.
 

yz450mm

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It's only 66 at night because it's too hot outside to get to 60. I'm seriously contemplating a mini split to get me there. 😁
I can only sleep if it's below 70 and I have air moving. The colder it is, the better I sleep... 60 would be great! At 3100 ft, our single HVAC system struggles all night to keep 69, so I'd love a mini split above our bed going polar bear style.
 

NicPaus

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68 here when I sleep. My Lady is in a sweatshirt and snow socks with a comforter LOL. I am in my boxers with a sheet. If it's cold enough for no AC I have a fan I run aimed at me. 2 months or so only for AC here so no solar. Bill is around 300$ that's with the Tesla and pool. Pool solar heater is where solar would go.
 

Ace in the Hole

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@Xtrmwakeboarder I’m flying back from a conference right now, I’ll reply tomorrow. Texas is a unique place in terms of companies/utilities and how the buy backs work.

Do you have space for a ground mount?

In Texas I will steer you away from battery backup for a multitude of reasons…the NG whole home is a good idea, along with a system sized appropriately for your house/NEM.

You are in one of the higher rate areas. There and Georgetown are 2 of the highest in the state.

It makes sense depending on your NEM, which I need to look up. I sold a lot of solar in Texas..second only to hawaii about in terms of deals I personally sold to ppl. It’s all about the NEM. I’ve got someone I can refer you to without the BS.
 

Xtrmwakeboarder

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@Xtrmwakeboarder I’m flying back from a conference right now, I’ll reply tomorrow. Texas is a unique place in terms of companies/utilities and how the buy backs work.

Do you have space for a ground mount?

In Texas I will steer you away from battery backup for a multitude of reasons…the NG whole home is a good idea, along with a system sized appropriately for your house/NEM.

You are in one of the higher rate areas. There and Georgetown are 2 of the highest in the state.

It makes sense depending on your NEM, which I need to look up. I sold a lot of solar in Texas..second only to hawaii about in terms of deals I personally sold to ppl. It’s all about the NEM. I’ve got someone I can refer you to without the BS.
Ground mount solar? If so, nope, not enough room. I'm only on 19k square feet, and the pool and other stuff will take up much of that. I seriously doubt the HOA would buy off on it anyway.

Another thing I was thinking about was the cost of NG when/if the power goes out. Apparently, the price has skyrocketed over here, especially in the winter....not to mention the availability of it. I'm pretty sure everyone over here lost electricity and gas during snowmageddon.

Not sure on NEM, but I pulled this from the Coserv website.
1659742224600.png
 

TCHB

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We have solar now and hope to have a 8 year pay back. The one thing that I feel is that your home value will go up at least 50% of the price you paid for the solar. If you paid $20K out of pocket you added $10k of value to the house.
 

Mack

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Try green mountain in Texas for energy call talk to sales man and they should offer 1/2 of what you are paying per kWh might need 3 year contract
 

badgas

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I can’t see spending $200k+ on stuff to save a hundred or 2 bucks on power and gas every month :)
What if it was $70-$75K and not $200K ?

I'm considering Solar $34K before 26% tax credit and a used Model 3 at $38K

My current SCE and fuel for our Highlander ( 19 mpg ) is around $760 per month

it's s big house with pool that is a power sucking pig. My neighbors with Solar and EV have no SCE bill other than the small monthy hookup fee.
 

Xtrmwakeboarder

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Try green mountain in Texas for energy call talk to sales man and they should offer 1/2 of what you are paying per kWh might need 3 year contract
No deal. Only Coserv in this area
 

HB2Havasu

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I would get a portable a/c to put in your room for sleeping and turn the house thermostat up to 80F. If your trying to get down to 60F when it’s 100F+ outside yore a/c will never shut off
 

Xtrmwakeboarder

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I guess one thing I should stress is I'm getting some sort of backup either way. Big Portable Genny, Powerwall, or NG whole home system. I just figured bills like this would possibly make the solar/battery system more viable.

I may be paranoid, but I expect regular outages during storm season and do not want to lose heat/AC, fridge/freezers, or interrupt our work-from-home situation if possible.
 

Xtrmwakeboarder

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I would get a portable a/c to put in your room for sleeping and turn the house thermostat up to 80F. If your trying to get down to 60F when it’s 100F+ outside yore a/c will never shut off
That would work if there weren't a million bugs trying to break in at all times haha That's where the mini-split idea as a more permanent solution may make sense.
 

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Fuck Edison! Run my AC 68 at night, 69-70 during the day.
Pool filters for 10 hours a day with a 2hp pump.
I try to use all of my solar credit, instead of letting edison buy my electricity for .03 per kwh.

1659755599046.png
 

TPC

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I'm trying to decrease my electric bill, not increase it!
We've decreased our power bill and are charging an EV. You will too if you size it right.

Power Wall is essential.

Makes all the difference. We run on battery power all night long. I wanted two power walls but Tesla said wait until we start trading power with Edison then decide if it's needed.
I should have insisted, but I think Edison has say in the size system you can install and that may be the real reason Tesla balked. These rules need to be changed and compensation from the power company needs to change too.

We're 95% off grid now.
Wife plugs in her EV and makes it to Grandmas in 'Vegas on a solar charge. (though I insist she top off the charge at Eddies world, she could still make it without) 60 Amp charge is quick for the home.

Many casinos have free EV charging so it doesn't cost Ali a dime to make the journey.
South Point Hotel Free charging.

1659786161243.jpeg


New Fords are a whopping 90 AMP home charge and the Wall Charger is included with the truck.
I'm beside myself how much we like the F150 Lightning.
1659786031910.jpeg


Even if you don't have solar it's still way cheaper to charge at home vs the Gas pump.
Add the convince and performance of an EV,, theirs no livin' with me I like it so much.
 
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Angler

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I don't see a need for a a battery backup system, if you actually buy a solar powered system to meet your electrical needs. I have a generator if the power ever goes out that will run everything I need. Seem a lot cheaper than batteries.
 

Xtrmwakeboarder

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I don't see a need for a a battery backup system, if you actually buy a solar powered system to meet your electrical needs. I have a generator if the power ever goes out that will run everything I need. Seem a lot cheaper than batteries.
Whole home or portable?

Whole home looks like a big investment, like solar, but it just sits there most of the time. Probably $15k plus several hundred a year in maint. and then who knows how much for the NG when the lights go out. The good thing is, if the gas is still on, it seems like it can run indefinitely.
 

Angler

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Whole home or portable?

Whole home looks like a big investment, like solar, but it just sits there most of the time. Probably $15k plus several hundred a year in maint. and then who knows how much for the NG when the lights go out. The good thing is, if the gas is still on, it seems like it can run indefinitely.
Portable that runs on propane or gas. But I will never use gas in it.
 

LargeOrangeFont

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What if it was $70-$75K and not $200K ?

I'm considering Solar $34K before 26% tax credit and a used Model 3 at $38K

My current SCE and fuel for our Highlander ( 19 mpg ) is around $760 per month

it's s big house with pool that is a power sucking pig. My neighbors with Solar and EV have no SCE bill other than the small monthy hookup fee.
Now you are talking. If 7 year or less ROI for you, do it.

Still keeping Highlander or selling? That would mean even less out of pocket if selling.

There is 0 solar here in southern UT. My power is 6 cents a KW all the time, no tiers, no TOU, no BS. An electric car could really make sense here for us without the need for solar at all.
 
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YeahYeah01

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Panel tech, longevity, price, opportunity costs.

You don’t want to buy a system and have it be halfway through its lifespan when you pay it off.
Makes sense.

My issue is how to calculate the actual ROI. Electricity doesn't seem to be hard cost and is only going up. Then the electric car thing getting rammed down our throats.

Maybe if you look at your usage now with an average price increase each year would be a decent way to try and get close to when you hit your ROI.
 

LargeOrangeFont

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Makes sense.

My issue is how to calculate the actual ROI. Electricity doesn't seem to be hard cost and is only going up. Then the electric car thing getting rammed down our throats.

Maybe if you look at your usage now with an average price increase each year would be a decent way to try and get close to when you hit your ROI.

If you did your calcs at todays prices and come back with an ROI of 8 years you are right there. 12 years, not so much. Power prices aren’t going to go up that much.

Then add in whatever you might be adding.. electric car, pool, whatever.
 

Angler

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If you did your calcs at todays prices and come back with an ROI of 8 years you are right there. 12 years, not so much. Power prices aren’t going to go up that much.

Then add in whatever you might be adding.. electric car, pool, whatever.
Like a speed car?
 

badgas

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Now you are talking. If 7 year or less ROI for you, do it.

Still keeping Highlander or selling? That would mean even less out of pocket if selling.

There is 0 solar here in southern UT. My power is 6 cents a KW all the time, no tiers, no TOU, no BS. An electric car could really make sense here for us without the need for solar at all.
Yes the Highlander would be sold and it's worth about $22K ish
 

YeahYeah01

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If you did your calcs at todays prices and come back with an ROI of 8 years you are right there. 12 years, not so much. Power prices aren’t going to go up that much.

Then add in whatever you might be adding.. electric car, pool, whatever.
I need to look into how much electricity an average ev takes to charge based on our driving habits.
 

Ace in the Hole

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We've decreased our power bill and are charging an EV. You will too if you size it right.

Power Wall is essential.
While the power wall is hip and cool it isn't the only option, or even best option in a lot of cases. Enphase has a pretty badass system, and the new Duracell home battery systems management tech is next level.

I will disagree with you that a battery is essential. You are paying significantly more than OP is for power in your areas. Outside of Southern California, and HI...battery systems only make sense where your NEM sucks worse than Biden does as a president. In an area where power is cheap you may never even recoup your costs.... Further when you take into account certain draws etc it doesn't support the whole house..(ac startups etc pull a lot). In the OP's case I would not recommend one..and a lot of that is he simply will not have the roof space to be supporting the house usage during the day, as well as charging the battery system. Power consumption in CA vs TX is night and day different in most cases. Hell back when I worked in HI, our average solar customer used at most 600kWh per month. Texas was 2-3+ x that. I could go into more reasons than just financial but in his case I wouldn't do one..same as I wouldn't in havasu.
 

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I have a friend who bought a system, and after 6 months, the company went bankrupt, but by that time it was installed, and I think he had a loan of $30k. At month 9, a part failed in the system, and he had to call someone else to service.

He needed a part, but they could not find one. So he had to upgrade part of the system with s differs manufacture. $3500 more, and his 9 month old system is running again, but when the power goes off, he has problems with errors when it turns on.

It took 5 days just to get someone out to look at it.

Bottom line, if you like fucking with service repairmen, who have no idea what their doing, and have time to sit around and wait for them, and like headaches, solar for you.
 
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