WELCOME TO RIVER DAVES PLACE

DC Police Boat Hits, Sinks Docked Craft!

BoatCop

Retired And Loving It.
Joined
Sep 20, 2007
Messages
5,243
Reaction score
9,005
I think the problem is that when the average guy encounters a LEO, he is detained, questioned, and LEOs take their time while they figure out what's what. The citizen is guilty until proven innocent, in this sense. The LEO, however, can do quite a few illegal things without consequence and, even when there is consequence, they are called into their supervisor's office or maybe summoned to a review board, etc. Essentially innocent until proven guilty. LEOs get the benefit if the doubt where citizens do not.

I can say that while understanding the average LEO is a better boat operator than the average citizen and the average LEO is probably more lawful than the average citizen.


For me, it comes down to consequence. A LEO, member of the military, government official, or regular citizen should all face the same consequence for the same crime. I'm not sure this is the case. It seems as though a LEO faces a lower conviction liability and also faces a lower sentence liability. *If* these two inequities exist, this would be a clear case of injustice.

The inequities come about, based on individual perceptions of the Police, Military, government officials, etc. If a child molester happens to be a plumber, nobody thinks that every plumber is a child molester. And it's not in the headlines that "PLUMBER MOLESTS CHILDREN".

The average person comes into contact with police, usually not under the best of situations. It's often traumatic circumstances, which tend to stick in their minds. Sometimes it's of their own doing, sometimes it's not. How the responding police officer reacts to the situation will probably dictate that person's perception of police for a long time, if not permanently.

I'm the first one to admit that not everyone is cut out to be a cop. It's my opinion that people who are overbearing, officious, mean, or just plain asshole have no place in police work. The problem lies mainly because cops tend to work alone, with no direct supervision. That is, no one looking directly over their shoulders all the time. Add to this, a perception that a lot of people have, that complaints will be ignored. So the more the bad cop gets away with it, the more empowered they are. Throw in the old mentality of cops watching out for their own, (blue wall of silence) and complaints MAY go ignored. Unfortunately, there's nothing I can do about that, outside of my own Department and team.

In other cases, laws, union bargaining agreements and "good ole boy" attitudes protect the bad cop. What you DO have to realize is that a lot of time and money go into training a police officer. Upwards of a year, before they are set out on their own. If it's just an attitude issue, you can try and re-train them, and sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. When it's a serious conduct or criminal issue, the amount of time and effort required to discipline, prosecute and possibly fire a cop (or other government worker) is unbelievable. Often we have to wait until a criminal case is tried and over, before we can act on their job. Everything we do, if it involves loss of pay or loss of their job, has to stand up to citizen review and possibly judicial scrutiny.

Even when it seems like a slam duck deal, it can take at least anywhere from 3 months to a year to adjudicate (fire) a cop or government worker. A recent investigation I did took around 4 months with numerous trips to Phoenix to consult with the lawyers, making sure every part of my report was perfect and within the law and our policies. When the final product came out, the cop realized he was toast, didn't fight it and resigned. If he hadn't, it would have drug on for another 6 months or so. And this one didn't involve charged criminal conduct. I say "charged" criminal conduct, as an outside agency and prosecutor reviewed the case (occurred in another jurisdiction) and declined to prosecute. In my 15 years as a police supervisor and administrator, I've personally been involved in ridding the profession of maybe a dozen bad apples.

This job attracts the "alpha male" types (even if they're female) and some times you have to tone them down from the beginning. And some others just get jaded from the element we have to deal with on almost a daily basis. We try to screen people with psyche tests, interviews, boards, etc. but some still slip through the cracks.

But back to the profession perception. There's a lot of teacher/student issues in the news lately. Does that make you think ALL teachers are perverts? Do you distrust your kids teachers and think that ALL of them are stalking your kids? There's around 600,000 cops in the USA. Those who go about their business and do their jobs honorably don't make the evening news. And the vast majority of us do just that.

All I'm asking, is until you paint all professions with such a broad brush based on the actions or misdeeds of a few, realize that we're individuals and give us a break. At least until we do something to break that public trust.

In the meantime, you can look here and see what happens to cops who break the rules: http://www.azpost.gov/Integrity.htm
 
  • Like
Reactions: t&y

U4ia

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jul 10, 2012
Messages
344
Reaction score
28
Uhhh....



Well, now that we are clear on what's been said, it appears Allen has come back and expanded on his position here. He nor I are making excuses for anything that has occurred and there is no point in arguing with you about what punishments should have been handed out and why.

Thanks for showing me that I did indeed say the word coverup. My error in not acknowledging that at once.

It is fun arguing about the meaning of words such as whitewash or coverup, but that does not change the fact that the folks in question abused their authority, killed people and were given a minor sanction. All the disagreement in the world about the meaning of the words I used cannot change that.... they took abused their authority and that resulted in needless deaths. They were then charged a fine and forced to change jobs as a punishment. Oh and the ringleader had to go into the lockup for 3 months! Essentially they got off scott free as I do not consider a career change in ones 20's or 30's as being much of a punishment nor much of a deterrent either. It does seem to be very difficult for "Justice" to be done when it is LEO vs citizen.......
 

Tom Brown

Epsilon contributor
Joined
Sep 20, 2007
Messages
26,888
Reaction score
2,198
Alan, I really enjoyed your post. :thumbsup


The inequities come about, based on individual perceptions of the Police, Military, government officials, etc. If a child molester happens to be a plumber, nobody thinks that every plumber is a child molester. And it's not in the headlines that "PLUMBER MOLESTS CHILDREN".

:)

Not only do I not disagree in any way, if you read my post you may notice I was excruciatingly careful to discuss consequence profiles based on sworn membership. I made two generalizations on LEOs themselves and those were:

"...the average LEO is a better boat operator than the average citizen and the average LEO is probably more lawful than the average citizen."

I'm sure you noticed that but I want to point it out.


Perhaps the take away from this discussion is a profound realization of the sacred men who do a good job for the people they work for. The guys who quietly do a great job for an entire career are the guys you never hear about but those are the guys who make the world a good place to be. Without them, we'd all have nothing. In light of this, I suppose the benefit of the doubt isn't too much to ask. Benefit given!


I have to be diplomatic now that I'm a moderator on another forum. Fuck Dave for putting this muzzle on me and down with all cops! Anarchy rules! :D :D
 

brgrcru

Well-Known Member
Joined
Sep 5, 2010
Messages
6,119
Reaction score
11,709
the boat that was hit and sunk was not being used by the owner. "Hay dude ! sorry, thanks for letting me use your boat. I don't know what happened? we were inside eating. we came out and your boat is sunk." ha, ha, ha , laughter.:eek. the black I mean(African american) guy looks like the same guy that found those 3 girls that were kept hostage in Cleveland? he is everywhere. and the narrator is off the hook; could not understand a word he was saying? but funny non-the-less. thank god know one was hurt.
 
Top