Bad accident at Lake Cumberand PR

[Hammer]

Still shot .

 

[Vmjtc3]

I agree 100%, but it does not negate my original point. The speed is the factor that cause this incident, only due to the fact that it was not a closed coarse. You're correct about the visibility factor and being freight trained, therefore the speed was in excess of what was safe for the conditions.

I was not trying to argue your point at all, just throwing some number in to the mix:thumbsup

 

[IN AWE]

If participants are going to treat it as a closed course race then it should be one.

Hit the nail on the head

 

[SJP]

Still shot . View attachment 292266

That pic says more than 1000 words. I have to say all the captains of the three boats must be saying "holy shit" from entirely different perspectives.

SJP

 

[IN AWE]

I was not trying to argue your point at all, just throwing some number in to the mix:thumbsup

It does happen in a hurry. :cool

 

[Cajun]

IMO from this last video the organizers should have their balls in a sling. How can they let spectator boats just non nonchalantly cross in front of Poker Run boats? Now I understand that this is a public lake but give me a fucking break, advise non participants to stay off the course while the participants are under way. Absolute stupidity in so many ways.

RIP guys, too bad some lame as fuck caused your deaths.

Why does everyone assume this is a spectator boat? This may be some guy just out on the lake. Cumberland is huge. After DS, there were members on here who used public ramps and there was NO NOTIFICATION of a poker run. You can't assume everyone knows everything on the lake.

 

[riverroyal]

Why does everyone assume this is a spectator boat? This may be some guy just out on the lake. Cumberland is huge. After DS, there were members on here who used public ramps and there was NO NOTIFICATION of a poker run. You can't assume everyone knows everything on the lake.

of DS and the 'flip' and got my ass handed to me in private messages and public ones, my opinion remains the same, just a bit more justified.

sorry for the loss of these 2 men.

these accidents arent a unlucky streak in boating events, its become more the norm. I don't believe anything will change until a spectator is involved, or more likely a weekend boater. I really hope the organizers and participants make some changes, its in the best interest of everyone.

Im sure my mailbox will have a few 'shut up' comments in the morning, it will go well with my coffee

edit;;; I just watched the video, after I posted. Lawsuits will follow. What a tragedy

 

[Havasu Hangin']

If participants are going to treat it as a closed course race then it should be one.

This is why Jim changed Desert Storm to a closed-course shootout on Saturday. That way, if you want to go fast, you can do it under safer conditions.

 

[riverroyal]

This is why Jim changed Desert Storm to a closed-course shootout on Saturday. That way, if you want to go fast, you can do it under safer conditions.

thing. But the participants still race to the 1st stop, and the 2nd. Its really time for the upper class of boat owners to step up figure out how to avoid this. Maybe they already are, my guess is the calls and discussions have already begun. ( by upper class I mean no disrespect )

Where was this boat from?

 

[Tom Slick]

This guy needs to seriously get his ass kicked :box:

[video=youtube;2AoHBQNqNSg]http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=2AoHBQNqNSg[/video]

 

[Tom Slick]

Same guy, different angle. Don't want to speculate, but looks like the same red boat that was in front of the boat that crashed?

[video=youtube;daZa-LatIUY]http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=daZa-LatIUY[/video]

 

[Havasu Hangin']

thing. But the participants still race to the 1st stop, and the 2nd. Its really time for the upper class of boat owners to step up figure out how to avoid this. Maybe they already are, my guess is the calls and discussions have already begun. ( by upper class I mean no disrespect )

Where was this boat from?

Not everybody does anymore- at least at Desert Storm. Like Bob Teague says in the driver's meeting...save it for tomorrow.

Are there guys that ignore it and run their shit hard anyway? You bet. But these are also the guys doing 160MPH+ on the non-poker run weekends. We've all seen them on the river any given weekend.

These guys were from LOTO- I actually filmed them...and spoke with one of them on the docks a couple weeks ago at the Shootout. Really nice guys.

 

[ClownRoyal]

This guy needs to seriously get his ass kicked :box:

[video=youtube;2AoHBQNqNSg]http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=2AoHBQNqNSg[/video]

The Checkmate guy? I agree.

 

[Havasu Hangin']

Same guy, different angle. Don't want to speculate, but looks like the same red boat that was in front of the boat that crashed?

[video=youtube;daZa-LatIUY]http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=daZa-LatIUY[/video]

That's Pyburn in Pure Platinum...and I read on OSO he was the lead boat during the crash...but I wasn't there.

 

[Tom Slick]

That's Pyburn in Pure Platinum...and I read on OSO he was the lead boat during the crash...but I wasn't there.

Again, just speculation, but it looks the the green Skater that crashed is on the outside toward the middle of the channel of this red skater as the red skater slices through spectator boats to maintain his lead. Like you, I wasn't there.

 

[NO REGRET$]

video from facebook ..... sad deal R.I.P.



[video=youtube;hvZdPk9Mgzw]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hvZdPk9Mgzw[/video]

 

[aka619er]

Wow. I don't like cutting through boats like that at 70 much less their speeds. Nuts.

 

[tkrrox]

in every sport there are crashes...now this technically isn't a race but for the ultra egos it is...i think they need to demand a higher degree of safety equipment...what other sport can you go 160 in a public area???

 

[riverroyal]

Not everybody does anymore- at least at Desert Storm. Like Bob Teague says in the driver's meeting...save it for tomorrow.

Are there guys that ignore it and run their shit hard anyway? You bet. But these are also the guys doing 160MPH+ on the non-poker run weekends. We've all seen them on the river any given weekend.

These guys were from LOTO- I actually filmed them...and spoke with one of them on the docks a couple weeks ago at the Shootout. Really nice guys.

good advise.

what a shame, could have been avoided

 

[PVHCA]

You can't blame the organizers, the people on the lake, the insurance company, the city/county/state, Santa Claus or the Easter bunny for that matter. The ONLY thing responsible for this accident is the rate of speed that the boat was traveling. The only ones to blame for the rate of speed is, unfortunately the operators in this case. If you are on an open course, you must act like you are on an open coarse.

Discretion is the better part of valor, live to race another day.

Once again I will say it, my prayers go out to the family and friends.

I most certainly can blame the organizers, they should make sure that anyone on the lake that day understands what's going on, or to the best of their abilities try and notify all that will be on the lake. But that doesn't appear to be just some random guy cutting across with no knowledge of the poker run. IMO no one should be that close to the participants other than safety boats that should be parked and not moving.

Why does everyone assume this is a spectator boat? This may be some guy just out on the lake. Cumberland is huge. After DS, there were members on here who used public ramps and there was NO NOTIFICATION of a poker run. You can't assume everyone knows everything on the lake.

I didn't assume a thing, IMO that boat driver sure as hell knew what was going on and if he didn't then he's a fucking moron.

 

[Cajun]

I most certainly can blame the organizers, they should make sure that anyone on the lake that day understands what's going on, or to the best of their abilities try and notify all that will be on the lake. But that doesn't appear to be just some random guy cutting across with no knowledge of the poker run. IMO no one should be that close to the participants other than safety boats that should be parked and not moving.



I didn't assume a thing, IMO that boat driver sure as hell knew what was going on and if he didn't then he's a fucking moron.

It wasn't just you, there were a few that cried spectator boat. Having a boat on the water near a non race poker run doesn't qualify it as a spectator boat. It may be just a boat that does not give a shit about poker runs. Open course, his lake too.

 

[PVHCA]

It wasn't just you, there were a few that cried spectator boat. Having a boat on the water near a non race poker run doesn't qualify it as a spectator boat. It may be just a boat that does not give a shit about poker runs. Open course, his lake too.

Not arguing the point that the lake is open or not, just saying that the operator of that boat should have used a lot better judgment.

 

[lakemadness]

Not arguing the point that the lake is open or not, just saying that the operator of that boat should have used a lot better judgment.

How could he use better judgement when he may not have known about a poker run. He may not even know what a poker run is. A boat coming at you at 160+ comes up on you fast. If you don't know about it you cannot react and get out of the way fast enough. The lake doesn't belong to a guy in a poker run. He has to accept the fact that there are fellow boaters on the lake that he might have to yield to.

Just because you're in a poker run going triple digits does not mean you do not have to yield to other vessels and not use correct judgement.

 

[PVHCA]

How could he use better judgement when he may not have known about a poker run. He may not even know what a poker run is. A boat coming at you at 160+ comes up on you fast. If you don't know about it you cannot react and get out of the way fast enough. The lake doesn't belong to a guy in a poker run. He has to accept the fact that there are fellow boaters on the lake that he might have to yield to.

Just because your in a poker run going triple digits does not mean you do not have to yield to other vessels and not use correct judgement.

Let me try and reply in a manner that you may understand, apparently you are having a problem reading my responses.

How could the driver use better judgement? Let's just say he did know there was a poker run, so IMO he should have used better judgment. Let's say he didn't, well that's hard to believe IMO, the lake hosts this run every year, I'd wager most people on that lake are very aware of this Poker Run as well as those in that community. Let's say he didn't know about the run, I guess he maybe deaf and blind and never heard or saw any of these badass machines ripping along the lake, well in that event he shouldn't be operating a boat. IMO be aware of your surroundings, I'd wager if he wasn't deaf he heard the engines from all the boats roaring off in the distance, or if he wasn't blind I'd wager he saw a lot of other boats just chilling waiting for something, maybe poker run participants to fly by or maybe the Lochness Monster. I don't know the true reason he or she did what they did but I would never be that naive or unaware of my surroundings.

 

[IN AWE]

I most certainly can blame the organizers, they should make sure that anyone on the lake that day understands what's going on, or to the best of their abilities try and notify all that will be on the lake. But that doesn't appear to be just some random guy cutting across with no knowledge of the poker run. IMO no one should be that close to the participants other than safety boats that should be parked and not

You're right, you most certainly can blame the organizers. Doesn't necessarily make you right though. Depends at what point you want to lay blame on them. The time of the accident? Wrong. The time the boats were put into the water? Wrong again. How about when they pulled on the premises, at registration, pre-registration? All wrong. If I were to lay blame on the organizers, it would be at the point of conception. That exact moment when they decided to hold a race (yes a race) on an open coarse and call it a "poker run" to skirt around a higher insurance premium. Other than the deceased and their family, the insurance company is the one getting fucked. Organizers need to close the coarse, PERIOD, and if they can't, don't hold the event.

Even if the organizers told absolutely everyone on the lake, it's still an open coarse. Everyone has the right to be on that lake, just as if it is any other day (moron or not). Therefore the responsibilities fall directly on the driver that is going too fast for the conditions. It's not the organizations fault that the drivers did not heed the warnings that were most likely giving at the drivers meeting, which we probably can't call a "drivers meeting" because it is not a "race".

This is just my opinion, I could be wrong.

 

[PVHCA]

You're right, you most certainly can blame the organizers. Doesn't necessarily make you right though. Depends at what point you want to lay blame on them. The time of the accident? Wrong. The time the boats were put into the water? Wrong again. How about when they pulled on the premises, at registration, pre-registration? All wrong. If I were to lay blame on the organizers, it would be at the point of conception. That exact moment when they decided to hold a race (yes a race) on an open coarse and call it a "poker run" to skirt around a higher insurance premium. Other than the deceased and their family, the insurance company is the one getting fucked. Organizers need to close the coarse, PERIOD, and if they can't, don't hold the event.

Even if the organizers told absolutely everyone on the lake, it's still an open coarse. Everyone has the right to be on that lake, just as if it is any other day (moron or not). Therefore the responsibilities fall directly on the driver that is going too fast for the conditions. It's not the organizations fault that the drivers did not heed the warnings that were most likely giving at the drivers meeting, which we probably can't call a "drivers meeting" because it is not a "race".

This is just my opinion, I could be wrong.

Opinions vary. I guess I'm just more aware of my surroundings and make myself aware to what's going on to the best of my ability. As I stated above, maybe the driver of the boat was deaf and blind, I don't know wasn't there.

 

[riverroyal]

You're right, you most certainly can blame the organizers. Doesn't necessarily make you right though. Depends at what point you want to lay blame on them. The time of the accident? Wrong. The time the boats were put into the water? Wrong again. How about when they pulled on the premises, at registration, pre-registration? All wrong. If I were to lay blame on the organizers, it would be at the point of conception. That exact moment when they decided to hold a race (yes a race) on an open coarse and call it a "poker run" to skirt around a higher insurance premium. Other than the deceased and their family, the insurance company is the one getting fucked. Organizers need to close the coarse, PERIOD, and if they can't, don't hold the event.

Even if the organizers told absolutely everyone on the lake, it's still an open coarse. Everyone has the right to be on that lake, just as if it is any other day (moron or not). Therefore the responsibilities fall directly on the driver that is going too fast for the conditions. It's not the organizations fault that the drivers did not heed the warnings that were most likely giving at the drivers meeting, which we probably can't call a "drivers meeting" because it is not a "race".

This is just my opinion, I could be wrong.

except,,,,,the drivers have passed away, and if any lawsuits follow, which they will. The organizer ORGANIZED this event. Took money from these participants to participate. So the organizer is at fault in a court of law. Its just the way it is! I don't know the green boat crew, team, families, whatever, but my guess would be if they wanted to sue someone for this loss of family they could.

I know they all signed waivers, etc etc. Remember the tragedy in the desert MDR event, 11 died. Major lawsuits, no more desert racing.

also just my opinion, 50/50 chance Im wrong. I always give myself a those odds..avoid a RD lynching

 

[lakemadness]

Let me try and reply in a manner that you may understand, apparently you are having a problem reading my responses.

How could the driver use better judgement? Let's just say he did know there was a poker run, so IMO he should have used better judgment. Let's say he didn't, well that's hard to believe IMO, the lake hosts this run every year, I'd wager most people on that lake are very aware of this Poker Run as well as those in that community. Let's say he didn't know about the run, I guess he maybe deaf and blind and never heard or saw any of these badass machines ripping along the lake, well in that event he shouldn't be operating a boat. IMO be aware of your surroundings, I'd wager if he wasn't deaf he heard the engines from all the boats roaring off in the distance, or if he wasn't blind I'd wager he saw a lot of other boats just chilling waiting for something, maybe poker run participants to fly by or maybe the Lochness Monster. I don't know the true reason he or she did what they did but I would never be that naive or unaware of my surroundings.

I see your point of view, and if the guy knew about the event and knew they were coming at him then shame on him. He put himself in a bad spot even though it was legal for him to be out there on the lake and legal for him to be driving around.

Tough to see real positions of each boat due to the angle, but he may have been in the right of way. The poker run boats may have needed to yield to him. Remember these guys are going 160+, tough to judge spacing/distance and how quick they can come up on you and where you should go to be out of the way (if you need to yield to a boat going 160)

But you have to also recognize the fact that this lake is very large. There is a good chance the guy did not know about the event, or know where they were running at that moment. Not everyone gives a shit about some go fast boat poker run or is in to performance boats. He may not have a single clue of the event. When someone is coming up on you at those speeds and you are not aware they are going that fast, what the fuck can you do, really?

 

[Cajun]

Not arguing the point that the lake is open or not, just saying that the operator of that boat should have used a lot better judgment.

Better judgment in what? You're wrong. You want this guy to be at fault. The guy in the family boat plowing water is the root cause of a 160mph flip which resulted in the deaths of two well respected men in the performance boating world. You're still thinking this guy knew there was a flock of boats about to run up on him at nearly 300fps.

 

[PVHCA]

I see your point of view, and if the guy knew about the event and knew they were coming at him then shame on him. He put himself in a bad spot even though it was legal for him to be out there on the lake and legal for him to be driving around.

Tough to see real positions of each boat due to the angle, but he may have been in the right of way. The poker run boats may have needed to yield to him. Remember these guys are going 160+, tough to judge spacing/distance and how quick they can come up on you and where you should go to be out of the way (if you need to yield to a boat going 160)

But you have to also recognize the fact that this lake is very large. There is a good chance the guy did not know about the event, or know where they were running at that moment. Not everyone gives a shit about some go fast boat poker run or is in to performance boats. He may not have a single clue of the event. When someone is coming up on you at those speeds and you are not aware they are going that fast, what the fuck can you do, really?

Better judgment in what? You're wrong. You want this guy to be at fault. The guy in the family boat plowing water is the root cause of a 160mph flip which resulted in the deaths of two well respected men in the performance boating world. You're still thinking this guy knew there was a flock of boats about to run up on him at nearly 300fps.

I'm not saying the lake is not open to all people I know this, IMO the driver of that boat IF he or she is at fault should have used better judgement, I'd say the same thing if this would have happened while boating at 20MPH, be aware of your surroundings and make maneuvers accordingly.

And I'm no HOMER to the Poker Run either!!

 

[IN AWE]

Opinions vary. I guess I'm just more aware of my surroundings and make myself aware to what's going on to the best of my ability. As I stated above, maybe the driver of the boat was deaf and blind, I don't know wasn't there.

True, I also am very aware of my surroundings, more than most. That being said 160mph covers a shit ton of ground(or water) fast. I guess my point is that we have an open coarse in a non-race event. That in my opinion leaves the blame in one place only.

 

[C-2]

It was an accident with a tragic ending, period. Participants know the risks involved with a poker run on an open course.

What more needs to be said? Why do you guys argue so vehemently about incidents which don't personally affect you? :rolleyes

 

[lakemadness]

Let me make a big assumption. Lets see what you all say.

Lets say the family boat was in the right of way.

The green skater should have yielded to the family boat

The green skater decides not to yield and keep the sticks down, turn a little left and into the roost of the guy he is trying to "race" to avoid collision with the family boat. This maneuver causes the blow over.

Are you guys still going think the family boat driver should be dragged through the coals?

 

[Guest]

The spectator boats were not a factor

 

[PVHCA]

Let me make a big assumption. Lets see what you all say.

Lets say the family boat was in the right of way.

The green skater should have yielded to the family boat

The green skater decides not to yield and keep the sticks down, turn a little left and into the roost of the guy he is trying to "race" to avoid collision with the family boat. This maneuver causes the blow over.

Are you guys still going think the family boat driver should be dragged through the coals?

No, IMO the family guy is not wrong, my point in all of this was too be familiar with the surroundings. Yes I get at this rate of speed shit can hit the fan real quick, but I don't believe he or she had no clue, especially in relation to where they were boating, right on the Poker Run "coarse"!!

 

[riverroyal]

It was an accident with a tragic ending, period. Participants know the risks involved with a poker run on an open course.

What more needs to be said? Why do you guys argue so vehemently about incidents which don't personally affect you? :rolleyes

some people just like to debate stuff. At the end of the day 2 good men are gone to soon... The only actual effect it would have on me is I don't boat on poker run day. But Im willing to stay off the water for these events, I love them.

 

[Motor Boater]

Let me make a big assumption. Lets see what you all say.

Lets say the family boat was in the right of way.

The green skater should have yielded to the family boat

The green skater decides not to yield and keep the sticks down, turn a little left and into the roost of the guy he is trying to "race" to avoid collision with the family boat. This maneuver causes the blow over.

Are you guys still going think the family boat driver should be dragged through the coals?

Your not making an assumption, the family boat had the right of way. The skater was overtaking another vessel, its on him to do it safely. Very sad situation and everyone wants to lay blame somewhere. Fact is there is an absurd amount of risk when running 160mph in a pack of boats.

 

[Cajun]

True, I also am very aware of my surroundings, more than most. That being said 160mph covers a shit ton of ground(or water) fast. I guess my point is that we have an open coarse in a non-race event. That in my opinion leaves the blame in one place only.

I think this holds true for most of us on here. We are all fully aware how fast we as drivers can come up on a situation with the type of boating we do. The typical family guy on a runabout may not have a clue and I will bet that to be the norm, not the exception.

 

[IN AWE]

except,,,,,the drivers have passed away, and if any lawsuits follow, which they will. The organizer ORGANIZED this event. Took money from these participants to participate. So the organizer is at fault in a court of law.

I am not a judge or attorney, but i disagree.

except,,,,,the drivers have passed away, and if any lawsuits follow, which they will. The organizer ORGANIZED this event. Took money from these participants to participate. So the organizer is at fault in a court of law. Its just the way it is! I don't know the green boat crew, team, families, whatever, but my guess would be if they wanted to sue someone for this loss of family they could.

Yes, anyone can sue any anybody for anything at anytime. Does not mean they will win, or that it is right or wrong. This may sound harsh, but I would call that lawsuit "frivolous".

I know they all signed waivers, etc etc. Remember the tragedy in the desert MDR event, 11 died. Major lawsuits, no more desert racing.

Weren't the ones who died all spectators? Totally different scenario.

 

[lakemadness]

Your not making an assumption, the family boat had the right of way. The skater was overtaking another vessel, its on him to do it safely. Very sad situation and everyone wants to lay blame somewhere. Fact is there is an absurd amount of risk when running 160mph in a pack of boats.

:thumbsup

Just a bad situation.

 

[IN AWE]

No, IMO the family guy is not wrong, my point in all of this was too be familiar with the surroundings. Yes I get at this rate of speed shit can hit the fan real quick, but I don't believe he or she had no clue, especially in relation to where they were boating, right on the Poker Run "coarse"!!

Your not making an assumption, the family boat had the right of way. The skater was overtaking another vessel, its on him to do it safely. Very sad situation and everyone wants to lay blame somewhere. Fact is there is an absurd amount of risk when running 160mph in a pack of boats.

:thumbsup

Just a bad situation.

Agree completely.:thumbup:

 

[OGShocker]

Sorry to hear about the loss of life.


15 pages of armchair poker run participants gives me a fuggin headache!

 

[U4ia]

I just do not understand how someone can organize an event the has a shitload of boats going 160mph on a public lake when the same lake is open to the public!!!! What the hell were the event people thinking? This is a fatal accident waiting to happen.
I assume that all participants had to demonstrate skills and knowledge before being allowed to participate? What standard did the organizers use to screen the entrants: ability to pay the entry fee? Or was there an actual written minimum skill level of any sort? Do you see a possible liability issue here? One boat running at high speed is one issue, a whole fleet is another one entirely..... Especially if you are the one who caused all those boats to be there in the first place by setting up a Poker Race on public waters. Can anyone even pretend that this is not a race? With a straight face.....?

 

[Havasu Hangin']

I just do not understand how someone can organize an event the has a shitload of boats going 160mph on a public lake when the same lake is open to the public!!!! What the hell were the event people thinking?

The theory is that since there are no speed limits on these lakes (including Havasu), then the same boats and drivers can also go fast (legally) any other weekend on the same waterway. You can't regulate common sense, so if there's an idiot making bad decisions on any given weekend, how can you keep him out of a poker run?

The truth is there are lots of bad accidents out there weekly because of guys without common sense. Probably a lot more than during poker runs.

 

[Cajun]

It was an accident with a tragic ending, period. Participants know the risks involved with a poker run on an open course.

What more needs to be said? Why do you guys argue so vehemently about incidents which don't personally affect you? :rolleyes

How do you figure this doesn't involve every single performance boat owner out there? If states all start adapting and enforcing a speed limit of 35 mph, what do you think will happen to the boats all over this site?

 

[jman]

This guy needs to seriously get his ass kicked :box:

[video=youtube;2AoHBQNqNSg]http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=2AoHBQNqNSg[/video]

It seemed to be a common move there this year.

 

[lakemadness]

It seemed to be a common move there this year.

Wow, you want to talk about some poor judgement? There it is.

 

[riverroyal]

Wow, you want to talk about some poor judgement? There it is.

I cant hold out.....the was just fucking stupid.

either there was ZERO spectator control, or these drivers have such shit egos neither would back off way before passing these anchored boats.

If its a open lake, hell anchor in the middle!

Im not sure who is crazier here, the anchored folks, or the guys going 150 by them.

 

[WTMFA]

It's just crazy to think the M35 did almost the exact same thing. These guys had more experience? Those two accidents need to shown at the drivers meeting of every poker run. So that people know what happens when you're running at high speed and cross to closely behind another boat wake.

THIS ^^^^^^^^^^^^^

 

[white tortilla]

It seemed to be a common move there this year.

Wow dumb