WELCOME TO RIVER DAVES PLACE

Private Party Boat Purchase- Would You?

Not Important

Well-Known Member
Joined
May 16, 2014
Messages
274
Reaction score
450
Give the buyer back $4,500?

Back story:
Boat listed for 84,500, negotiated 80K with seller, reached out to bank and they want 10% down which makes the financed amount 72K, I don't want to be out the 8K so I told them I want to finance the whole 80k. Bank says they need 10% down so I said the actual sale price is 84,500 which brings the financed amount to 76,300 (3,700 out of pocket for me) the issue is the bank will be giving the seller the check, I'm gonna need that 4,500 back LOL What would you do?

Mike
 

gqchris

Well-Known Member
Joined
Mar 24, 2008
Messages
8,301
Reaction score
13,093
That could get too kinky for my comfort level. Depends on how you know the seller. RDP member? Then I would have no problem. Craigslister? No way.

People get weird over alot less cash than that. Not worth the risk.

On a side note. have you tried Lightstream? They make the process so easy. Literally wired me money next day!
 

Not Important

Well-Known Member
Joined
May 16, 2014
Messages
274
Reaction score
450
That could get too kinky for my comfort level. Depends on how you know the seller. RDP member? Then I would have no problem. Craigslister? No way.

People get weird over alot less cash than that. Not worth the risk.

On a side note. have you tried Lightstream? They make the process so easy. Literally wired me money next day!

Thanks, I will look in to them.

Mike
 

Sparky

Well-Known Member
Joined
Feb 27, 2008
Messages
58
Reaction score
49
images
 

Joepump

Well-Known Member
Joined
Oct 21, 2010
Messages
328
Reaction score
144
Send a copy of a check to the bank made out to the seller for the 10% , let the seller know what you are doing, void the check.
 

mbrown2

Well-Known Member
Joined
Sep 24, 2007
Messages
7,683
Reaction score
5,346
So as a seller you would be asking me to sign/lie on documents about said price and give you 4500 back which I already negotiated off the price for you...sorry but 2000 of that 4500 be would be my "less than honest fee"...whole deal sounds sketchy. Don't take this wrong way but if you can't put 10% down are you buying too much boat?
 

pwerwagn

Inmate #4800
Joined
Aug 28, 2010
Messages
2,520
Reaction score
2,918
I would give it a whirl.

If the seller is hesitant, offer him a few hundy for his cooperation.

I guess it depends how much you really want the boat too. If he would have held firm at 84, would you have backed out? If not...risk it.
 

Not Important

Well-Known Member
Joined
May 16, 2014
Messages
274
Reaction score
450
So as a seller you would be asking me to sign/lie on documents about said price and give you 4500 back which I already negotiated off the price for you...sorry but 2000 of that 4500 be would be my "less than honest fee"...whole deal sounds sketchy. Don't take this wrong way but if you can't put 10% down are you buying too much boat?

Fair point, Not taken the wrong way at all. Not that I can't, I don't want to, I'll only have it for a few years so the less money I put in to it the better off I'll be. Basically a long term rental. LOL Originally I wanted to buy the boat cash and refinance it but the banks give better rates if you buy through them, I like my money in my pocket.
 

Not Important

Well-Known Member
Joined
May 16, 2014
Messages
274
Reaction score
450
I would give it a whirl.

If the seller is hesitant, offer him a few hundy for his cooperation.

I guess it depends how much you really want the boat too. If he would have held firm at 84, would you have backed out? If not...risk it.


85 is the high NADA so I believe 80 is fair, but yes I would back out at 84.

Mike
 

King295

Well-Known Inmate #20225
Joined
Aug 8, 2017
Messages
1,822
Reaction score
2,754
Sounds like bank fraud to me...

Going to have to agree here.....

But I've gotta ask, if you wanted the full amount financed why not go full boat:

Loan Amount - Per Bank........$ 88,888.89
% Down Required ......................... 10%
Cash Back From Buyer.......... $ 8,888.89

Net Proceeds to Seller............$ 80,000.00
 

SkyDirtWaterguy

Well-Known Member
Joined
Sep 20, 2018
Messages
870
Reaction score
2,956
Also, ask the bank if they will require a Boat Survey (Appraisal) ? Sometimes the lender will require this over a certain dollar amount. Can be a pain in the ass getting someone qualified to do this in Havasu if required.
 

outboardrick

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jun 3, 2008
Messages
1,931
Reaction score
1,606
I think, as a seller, that I would have serious questions about a buyer that would ask me to do that. As asked above, I would question the ability of the buyer to fund such a purchase. Just my $.02.
 

mbrown2

Well-Known Member
Joined
Sep 24, 2007
Messages
7,683
Reaction score
5,346
Fair point, Not taken the wrong way at all. Not that I can't, I don't want to, I'll only have it for a few years so the less money I put in to it the better off I'll be. Basically a long term rental. LOL Originally I wanted to buy the boat cash and refinance it but the banks give better rates if you buy through them, I like my money in my pocket.
Good luck either way....I too look at some of these boats as long term rentals!
 

NicPaus

Well-Known Member
Joined
Sep 15, 2010
Messages
12,973
Reaction score
12,379
When I sold my 06 Duramax the buyer asked me to give him 5k cash back. His credit union was willing to lend more than I accepted for sale price. I declined few days later he still bought it. After the deal I asked him what the deal was and he wanted some different rims and tires for it and was utilizing there 4% loan. No big deal had I known him I might have but it sounded shady when he first replied and asked.
 

Singleton

Well-Known Member
Joined
Feb 5, 2008
Messages
18,133
Reaction score
23,512
Sounds like bank fraud.
Look at lightstream, they do personal loans so not tied to the asset.

I got my ToyHauler loan through them. Had the cash but the interest rate was lower then the rate my money man was making.
 

outboard_256

Well-Known Member
Joined
May 18, 2018
Messages
1,822
Reaction score
1,700
sounds like a good plan. Insure the boat for $85k and have a paper trail to prove it. Use it for a few years, then it mysteriously sinks. Its kinda like a long term rental with no money out of your pocket and loan gets paid off by insurance.
 

rrrr

Well-Known Member
Joined
Dec 19, 2007
Messages
14,984
Reaction score
32,553
Fair point, Not taken the wrong way at all. Not that I can't, I don't want to, I'll only have it for a few years so the less money I put in to it the better off I'll be. Basically a long term rental. LOL Originally I wanted to buy the boat cash and refinance it but the banks give better rates if you buy through them, I like my money in my pocket.

Doing illegal sales transactions might result in a lot less pocket money if you have to hire an attorney to get you out of the mess you created.
 

sirbob

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jan 13, 2009
Messages
10,565
Reaction score
14,495
Light stream - if you have good credit you get a better rate than the bank and they don't hold the note. In other words they will just give you the amount you want and it's a personal loan - no BS.

Very quick also.
 

GETBOATS

Well-Known Member
Joined
Apr 29, 2013
Messages
461
Reaction score
769
THIS!!!

Sounds like bank fraud to me...

Remember if FDIC bank you and seller can be in big trouble if caught.
I have sold a lot of boats over the years and requested to give banks false information on price etc. never have.... it’s a felony BTW
 

2FORCEFULL

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jan 26, 2008
Messages
28,968
Reaction score
17,604
Give the buyer back $4,500?

Back story:
Boat listed for 84,500, negotiated 80K with seller, reached out to bank and they want 10% down which makes the financed amount 72K, I don't want to be out the 8K so I told them I want to finance the whole 80k. Bank says they need 10% down so I said the actual sale price is 84,500 which brings the financed amount to 76,300 (3,700 out of pocket for me) the issue is the bank will be giving the seller the check, I'm gonna need that 4,500 back LOL What would you do?

Mike
I'd do it … but I'm a nice guy and easy to deal with...
 

Racey

Maxwell Smart-Ass
Joined
Sep 18, 2007
Messages
21,307
Reaction score
45,373
I had to double check the original post date to make sure this wasn’t a thread from 2006.

Oh how history repeats itself.

I was thinking the same thing.... Call me old fashioned, but if you aren't in a position to with extreme comfort be out 8k for a 10% deposit, maybe you shouldn't be financing an 80k boat that is a depreciating asset.
 

Kfabe

Well-Known Member
Joined
Sep 11, 2013
Messages
564
Reaction score
1,591
I had to double check the original post date to make sure this wasn’t a thread from 2006.

Oh how history repeats itself.


Why he’s at it, he might as well go by a way bigger house than he can afford and get an adjustable rate mortgage for 30 years.
 

WYRD

Well-Known Member
Joined
Sep 25, 2007
Messages
3,597
Reaction score
7,460
BOAET = break out another eighty thousand
 

GRADS

Phishing license is paid up to date
Joined
Dec 19, 2007
Messages
19,344
Reaction score
23,425
Not that I can't, I don't want to, I'll only have it for a few years so the less money I put in to it the better off I'll be. Basically a long term rental. LOL Originally I wanted to buy the boat cash and refinance it but the banks give better rates if you buy through them, I like my money in my pocket.
Unless that cash is making you more money than you're paying in interest, which is basically all you're paying for the first few years, that's not really a great plan. Also if you have a loan on it for $77K and a recession hits and all of a sudden the boat is worth $50K your two year plan is toast unless you pony up cash to get out of the loan. I know because I've made the same mistake before.
 

Hydroman55

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jul 7, 2018
Messages
1,294
Reaction score
3,149
as far as a felony.... not true...seller can rebate any amount they want...
So your saying providing an FDIC institution with false information involving thousands of dollars of is not a felony? Sure a seller can give anybody money if he wants but not the banks if obtained via fraud?
 

DrunkenSailor

Well-Known Member
Joined
Apr 11, 2017
Messages
7,470
Reaction score
10,396
The reason the bank requires a down payment is to ensure that the buyer is invested in the asset. 10% on a boat is a stupid amount but all the same its 8k. When the bank sells the paper they are going to sell it at 90% ltv. When the buyer wraps it into a securitization it will be sold to the bond holders at 90% ltv. When your 401k buys the bond and invests your retirement fund on the irr it will be at 90% ltv. How much of the paper that is rated usually below 80% ltv as investment grade (can be bought by insurance companies and pensions) on consumer debt like this do you honestly think is the correct ltv when you have guys bumping the sale price to avoid laying cash down. Do us all a favor and buy a cheaper boat if you cant swing the down payment on the 80k sled.

Who cares the banks have tons of cash right? Screw the evil corporation? The last time that attitude took over the us treasury bond debt tripled and the country as a whole was left holding the bag.

End of the day it is fraud and is punishable as such. Will you get caught probably not. But thats not a reason to do something or not to.
 

Jefftowz

Formerly Old School Ultra
Joined
Feb 5, 2008
Messages
4,650
Reaction score
5,125
They do this all the time in Real Estate deals to cover closing cost, I have had clients sell big dollar cars and put the funds into escrow with a lawyer. After the check clears he gets the boat and his $ and you get the balance. It is worth the piece of mind to me.
 

2FORCEFULL

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jan 26, 2008
Messages
28,968
Reaction score
17,604
So your saying providing an FDIC institution with false information involving thousands of dollars of is not a felony? Sure a seller can give anybody money if he wants but not the banks if obtained via fraud?
this is done daily at dealerships,...5 k rebate,... you can use at a discount cash price....or, as part of the down payment..the sale is reported including the rebate, and you pay sales tax on the rebate...
 

2FORCEFULL

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jan 26, 2008
Messages
28,968
Reaction score
17,604
Give the buyer back $4,500?

Back story:
Boat listed for 84,500, negotiated 80K with seller, reached out to bank and they want 10% down which makes the financed amount 72K, I don't want to be out the 8K so I told them I want to finance the whole 80k. Bank says they need 10% down so I said the actual sale price is 84,500 which brings the financed amount to 76,300 (3,700 out of pocket for me) the issue is the bank will be giving the seller the check, I'm gonna need that 4,500 back LOL What would you do?

Mike
some thing is out of whack here...if the bank is giving 76,300.... just give the seller the 3700 cash, and the check from the bank for 76,300

all the bank is gonna get from you is the sales contract....the bank is not involved with your down payment.. the 4500. doesn't have to go to the seller to begin with...kinda like this...sales price 84,500. seller gets a check for 76,300... and you owe the balance,... the seller can give back the whole down in theory …. or even let you pay the difference in payments …. or as a trade in..most banks are gonna go off NADA....and loan 80%... exception is gonna be your personal level of credit...hey bank, I wanna borrow 80k... ah ok..what for … gonna buy this boat, NADA is 100k.... ah ok we'll loan 80%


cash is just a convenient way for people to trade...I'll give you 9 chickens, and 12 rabbitts for your goat ...with out cash you have to find someone that needs or wants chickens and rabbits

I'm in a deal right now where my buyer is financing the deal.. part down in cash..bank check for the balane…. the amount the bank is cutting a check for has nothing to do with how much I get paid.. The only thing is the sales contract...I could take the balance in trade
 

ChumpChange

Commercial Banker
Joined
Dec 19, 2007
Messages
9,634
Reaction score
10,599
some thing is out of whack here...if the bank is giving 76,300.... just give the seller the 3700 cash, and the check from the bank for 76,300

all the bank is gonna get from you is the sales contract....the bank is not involved with your down payment.. the 4500. doesn't have to go to the seller to begin with...kinda like this...sales price 84,500. seller gets a check for 76,300... and you owe the balance,... the seller can give back the whole down in theory …. or even let you pay the difference in payments …. or as a trade in..most banks are gonna go off NADA....and loan 80%... exception is gonna be your personal level of credit...hey bank, I wanna borrow 80k... ah ok..what for … gonna buy this boat, NADA is 100k.... ah ok we'll loan 80%


cash is just a convenient way for people to trade...I'll give you 9 chickens, and 12 rabbitts for your goat ...with out cash you have to find someone that needs or wants chickens and rabbits

I'm in a deal right now where my buyer is financing the deal.. part down in cash..bank check for the balane…. the amount the bank is cutting a check for has nothing to do with how much I get paid.. The only thing is the sales contract...I could take the balance in trade

Because you still have a down payment portion in your scenario where the buyer is coming up with some cash, hence why the bank check has nothing to do with the sales price. In the OP's scenario, the buyer is trying to finance everything and above. No money down.
 

WYRD

Well-Known Member
Joined
Sep 25, 2007
Messages
3,597
Reaction score
7,460
Because you still have a down payment portion in your scenario where the buyer is coming up with some cash, hence why the bank check has nothing to do with the sales price. In the OP's scenario, the buyer is trying to finance everything and above. No money down.
As previously stated, if he can't part with the $3700 then (in theory) he can't afford an $80k toy
 

2FORCEFULL

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jan 26, 2008
Messages
28,968
Reaction score
17,604
Because you still have a down payment portion in your scenario where the buyer is coming up with some cash, hence why the bank check has nothing to do with the sales price. In the OP's scenario, the buyer is trying to finance everything and above. No money down.
the part I was trying to understand is this...the check is not for the full amount... so just give the check and 3700.... the purchace agreement could be for the full amount...but the check would be the amount the bank gives..so the seller would never have the other....make sense?...I would think NADA would be involved...and they would not go over the 80% unless the buyer was credit worthy ..unless the credit union wants the down and cut the full check to the seller.... that would makes sense as the credit union would have control of a situation like this..
 

WYRD

Well-Known Member
Joined
Sep 25, 2007
Messages
3,597
Reaction score
7,460
the part I was trying to understand is this...the check is not for the full amount... so just give the check and 3700.... the purchace agreement could be for the full amount...but the check would be the amount the bank gives..so the seller would never have the other....make sense?...I would think NADA would be involved...and they would not go over the 80% unless the buyer was credit worthy ..unless the credit union wants the down and cut the full check to the seller.... that would makes sense as the credit union would have control of a situation like this..
Quit using logic yore embarrassing yore-self
 

2FORCEFULL

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jan 26, 2008
Messages
28,968
Reaction score
17,604
this is what I got out of the whole thread...and something that goes on daily...seller has boat for sale for 84k.... buyer says,... hey, it not worth 84k to me... I'll give you 80k...sellers says...well, ok,... give me the 80k.... buyer says.... I don't have 80k....
 

2FORCEFULL

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jan 26, 2008
Messages
28,968
Reaction score
17,604
this is what happens when I try to buy private party... I get there, ready to buy.... but... where's the boat that was in the add...this deal got real heated...the owner accused me of not even having the money, said don't discount the boat because you can't afford it....about then I got angry...it went something like this...I whipped out the doe... every f'n penny...and said... now where's the time capsule prestine can't tell it was ever used f'n boat...the seller read the add that the broker wrote, jumped his ass right on the spot,...said to him... no wonder he's pissed... I would be too!!!!

 

OldSchoolBoats

No Bad Days
Joined
May 8, 2014
Messages
16,471
Reaction score
24,199
this is what happens when I try to buy private party... I get there, ready to buy.... but... where's the boat that was in the add...this deal got real heated...the owner accused me of not even having the money, said don't discount the boat because you can't afford it....about then I got angry...it went something like this...I whipped out the doe... every f'n penny...and said... now where's the time capsule prestine can't tell it was ever used f'n boat...the seller read the add that the broker wrote, jumped his ass right on the spot,...said to him... no wonder he's pissed... I would be too!!!!

That video never gets old.....lol



Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk
 

Not Important

Well-Known Member
Joined
May 16, 2014
Messages
274
Reaction score
450
some thing is out of whack here...if the bank is giving 76,300.... just give the seller the 3700 cash, and the check from the bank for 76,300

all the bank is gonna get from you is the sales contract....the bank is not involved with your down payment.. the 4500. doesn't have to go to the seller to begin with...kinda like this...sales price 84,500. seller gets a check for 76,300... and you owe the balance,... the seller can give back the whole down in theory …. or even let you pay the difference in payments …. or as a trade in..most banks are gonna go off NADA....and loan 80%... exception is gonna be your personal level of credit...hey bank, I wanna borrow 80k... ah ok..what for … gonna buy this boat, NADA is 100k.... ah ok we'll loan 80%


cash is just a convenient way for people to trade...I'll give you 9 chickens, and 12 rabbitts for your goat ...with out cash you have to find someone that needs or wants chickens and rabbits

I'm in a deal right now where my buyer is financing the deal.. part down in cash..bank check for the balane…. the amount the bank is cutting a check for has nothing to do with how much I get paid.. The only thing is the sales contract...I could take the balance in trade


Yes it was my mistake, the money goes to the lein holder less the deposit.
 
Top