Well this is going to prove to be difficult for us very small business guys /contractors for us ve.

[Jed-O]

Well this is going to be difficult for us very small business guys /contractors.
Due to the Uber and Lyft labor issues and the California government getting involved, we at least a huge percentage of us are going to have to pay the price...
As a sole proprietor building contractor who technically has no employees, but has a licensed carpentry contractor who works by the hour that is needed and my right hand man is now (as of January 1st) considered by the state to be an employee and I will now be responsible and required to provide work comp, unemployment insurance, and many other benefits as well as being responsible for figuring out his tax deductions and ssi.
Thank you Gavin Newsome for fucking me and every other little guy as well as our clients big time!
PS I'll be doubling my prices until further notice so I can obey the law and hopefully be able to afford to obtain the workmans comp insurance before the deadline. But I doubt any clients will be understanding when it comes to their check book.

 

[pronstar]

One thought:
Have your dudes startup their own companies, then you can continue to pay them as contractors and they’ll likely get more write-offs as a side benefit to them.



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[RCDave]

 

[HotRod82]

One thought:
Have your dudes startup their own companies, then you can continue to pay them as contractors and they’ll likely get more write-offs as a side benefit to them.



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What the OP is referring to is a change in the law making it more difficult to do this.....Currently, I can hire a licensed sub to work hourly under my direction on a job, apparently the new law makes it illegal to do this without a written task specific contract. No more hiring a sub to do generic tasks and be paid hourly, small construction companies are about to get pummeled if this turns out to be true.

 

[Jed-O]

What the OP is referring to is a change in the law making it more difficult to do this.....Currently, I can hire a licensed sub to work hourly under my direction on a job, apparently the new law makes it illegal to do this without a written task specific contract. No more hiring a sub to do generic tasks and be paid hourly, small construction companies are about to get pummeled if this turns out to be true.

Exactly my point! Thank you!

 

[Jed-O]

One thought:
Have your dudes startup their own companies, then you can continue to pay them as contractors and they’ll likely get more write-offs as a side benefit to them.



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This is what I have been doing for years and it has been a perfectly legitimate and legal business practice. As of January 1st it will be a criminal offense.

 

[Gelcoater]

What the OP is referring to is a change in the law making it more difficult to do this.....Currently, I can hire a licensed sub to work hourly under my direction on a job, apparently the new law makes it illegal to do this without a written task specific contract. No more hiring a sub to do generic tasks and be paid hourly, small construction companies are about to get pummeled if this turns out to be true.

What if you don’t hire them hourly but on piecework?

 

[HotRod82]

This is what I have been doing for years and it has been a perfectly legitimate and legal business practice. As of January 1st it will be a criminal offense.

Back when I was still in the HVAC biz I did this almost exclusively with the guys I hired, I’d actually help them get their license so I could sub to them on an as needed basis. Again, if this turns out to be true it will affect so many small contractors , many of which probably won’t survive.

 

[HotRod82]

What if you don’t hire them hourly but on piecework?

I’m not an expert on the new law, but what I’m hearing is you will need to execute a very specific contract clearly spelling out the scope of work. I think it will really come down to how they attempt to enforce it. The biggest problem I see is a disgruntled sub reports you and claims he was working in an employee capacity and you will have to prove otherwise.

 

[Gelcoater]

I’m not an expert on the new law, but what I’m hearing is you will need to execute a very specific contract clearly spelling out the scope of work. I think it will really come down to how they attempt to enforce it. The biggest problem I see is a disgruntled sub reports you and claims he was working in an employee capacity and you will have to prove otherwise.

This new law has my attention as a 1099 guy.
I’m pretty sure I’m safe from becoming someone’s employee anytime soon and wonder why anyone wouldn’t take advantage of aspects there of?
It’s going to be an interesting road.

 

[Jed-O]

Back when I was still in the HVAC biz I did this almost exclusively with the guys I hired, I’d actually help them get their license so I could sub to them on an as needed basis. Again, if this turns out to be true it will affect so many small contractors , many of which probably won’t survive.

Unfortunately I feel like you're 100‰ correct.
I just don't understand why our so called law makers can't do simple math. (yes even the liberal ones) if you decide to fuck over an entity that supplies you with funds in order to operate and you figure if you do it over and over again they will keep magically making money in order to pay for your ridiculous agendas?
The fact is, my clients already think I'm expensive as hell. The insurance companies are low balling many of my clients left and right. And calling me the asshole because they don't understand that it actually matters if I'm only repairing one small wall at "X$" versus a thousand feet of wall for $0.80 a foot. Jesus Christ! I can't buy the material to paint it for that mother fucker! On top of my overhead. Now the government wants me to what!!!!

 

[Jed-O]

This new law has my attention as a 1099 guy.
I’m pretty sure I’m safe from becoming someone’s employee anytime soon and wonder why anyone wouldn’t take advantage of aspects there of?
It’s going to be an interesting road.

Take a look at the exemptions in the LA Times article. You might find that you are fucked as well.

 

[Jed-O]

PS. I'm starting to wonder if RiverDave needs another limo driver...

 

[Gelcoater]

Take a look at the exemptions in the LA Times article. You might find that you are fucked as well.

I missed it if there was a link here.

And, if this is true, I’m not as fucked as a lot of boat shops will be.
If they have to pay workman’s comp, etc on a guy they see twice a month for a week or 6 times a year.
Sorta looking like just tightening of the noose, huh?
5th largest economy in the world!

 

[RodnJen]

This one is a potential problem if not crafted and implemented correctly. The reason it is happening is because so many employers have circumvented the laws and abused the 1099 route. This goes for both low skill and higher skilled workers producing for there “employer”.

I need to read the law. We experienced this and took a position as a contractor. It lasted a short time and the employer avoided paying workers comp and employment taxes for a person working daily doing the same work as other employees.

 

[pronstar]

This one is a potential problem if not crafted and implemented correctly. The reason it is happening is because so many employers have circumvented the laws and abused the 1099 route. This goes for both low skill and higher skilled workers producing for there “employer”.

.

Yeah Silicon Valley is at the top of the abusers list for this, definitely not low-wage positions [emoji106]


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[Gelcoater]

Yeah Silicon Valley is at the top of the abusers list for this, definitely not low-wage positions [emoji106]


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Have you read the law?
I know you’re a Texan now sonit doesn’t really matter to you.
I’d respect your take on it if you read it.

 

[RCDave]

Sounds like big unions are behind this bullshit

 

[Gelcoater]

Sounds like big unions are behind this bullshit

California stands to collect more tax, more workman’s comp, etc...

 

[Gelcoater]

@shintoooo ?
Sorry man I know you stay out of the dungeon unless it’s to swing hammer.
Doesn’t this sort of cross over into your realm of tax payment as far as who is W-2 vs 1099?
Any insight?
And, I say drop the hammer on anyone who craps this thread.

 

[Carlson-jet]

Under the court’s new test, a worker is an employee if his or her job forms part of a company’s core business; if the bosses direct the way the work is done; or if the worker has not established an independent trade or business.

If you are going to 1099 people, they have to be a licensed contractor or have a license to do business is how I read it. This is the same as back in 89' when I got my license.
Now there are a few new players in the game.
As always, The exemptions. Many of the exemped have to have some type of license in place already in order to fulfil their duties.

AB 5 is narrower than the court decision due to the scores of occupations it exempts from the new test. Exempted workers include doctors, dentists, lawyers, engineers, accountants, architects, Realtors, travel agents, graphic designers, human resources administrators, grant writers, marketers, fine artists, investment advisors and broker-dealers.

Several exemptions come with conditions. Commercial fishermen are exempt except from unemployment insurance. Barbers, cosmetologists and manicurists are exempt only if they set their own rates, are paid directly by clients and schedule their own appointments. Salespersons are exempt, provided their pay is based on actual sales, rather than wholesale purchases or referrals.

 

[RodnJen]

California stands to collect more tax, more workman’s comp, etc...

And more workers stand to be covered, etc.

 

[Gelcoater]

And more workers stand to be covered, etc.

Covered how?

 

[RodnJen]

Covered how?

Workers comp, unemployment insurance.

 

[pronstar]

This will put people OUT of work.

Small employers aren’t ATM’s who can simply pull money out to cover significantly higher labor costs.

Unintended consequences [emoji849]


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[RodnJen]

This will put people OUT of work.

Small employers aren’t ATM’s who can simply pull money out to cover significantly higher labor costs.

Unintended consequences [emoji849]


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Or it could hold employers accountable.

 

[Gelcoater]

Or it could hold employers accountable.

For something someone signed up for?

 

[RodnJen]

For something someone signed up for?

#failedandineffective

 

[Gelcoater]

#failedandineffective

Don’t cop out like that, Rod.
These people signed up for the position they are in. I am included in they.
Nothing is holding them or me from going out and finding something better, if they feel there is.

Incase you haven’t noticed, people are currently hiring

 

[Gelcoater]

Shintoooo? Rod’s first on the list

 

[RodnJen]

Don’t cop out like that, Rod.
These people signed up for the position they are in. I am included in they.
Nothing is holding them or me from going out and finding something better, if they feel there is.

Incase you haven’t noticed, people are currently hiring

There is a place for skilled piecework,without a doubt. This is designed to go after employers who are circumventing there obligation. That’s why it must be crafted carefully.

 

[Jed-O]

This one is a potential problem if not crafted and implemented correctly. The reason it is happening is because so many employers have circumvented the laws and abused the 1099 route. This goes for both low skill and higher skilled workers producing for there “employer”.

I need to read the law. We experienced this and took a position as a contractor. It lasted a short time and the employer avoided paying workers comp and employment taxes for a person working daily doing the same work as other employees.

I missed it if there was a link here.

And, if this is true, I’m not as fucked as a lot of boat shops will be.
If they have to pay workman’s comp, etc on a guy they see twice a month for a week or 6 times a year.
Sorta looking like just tightening of the noose, huh?
5th largest economy in the world!

My dad showed me today's paper. You should be able to look it up on latimes.com today's edition 9-12-19

The good shit is on page 12. Or should I say the nail in our coffin...

I'll be sure to hold on to the article and highlight if necessary.

 

[Gelcoater]

Under the court’s new test, a worker is an employee if his or her job forms part of a company’s core business; if the bosses direct the way the work is done; or if the worker has not established an independent trade or business.

If you are going to 1099 people, they have to be a licensed contractor or have a license to do business is how I read it. This is the same as back in 89' when I got my license.
Now there are a few new players in the game.
As always, The exemptions. Many of the exemped have to have some type of license in place already in order to fulfil their duties.

AB 5 is narrower than the court decision due to the scores of occupations it exempts from the new test. Exempted workers include doctors, dentists, lawyers, engineers, accountants, architects, Realtors, travel agents, graphic designers, human resources administrators, grant writers, marketers, fine artists, investment advisors and broker-dealers.

Several exemptions come with conditions. Commercial fishermen are exempt except from unemployment insurance. Barbers, cosmetologists and manicurists are exempt only if they set their own rates, are paid directly by clients and schedule their own appointments. Salespersons are exempt, provided their pay is based on actual sales, rather than wholesale purchases or referrals.

Thank you.
I missed this earlier.
Now, someone correct me if I’m a lil tipsy, but I think I can fall into that graphic designer category
Even though I don’t actually “design” it, I design it from 1D pic to 3D reality.

 

[Gelcoater]

I feel sorry for those (and maybe yet still me) that do NOT want to be someone’s employee, but will be forced to.
That doesn’t sound like Freedom to me?

 

[RCDave]

Don't bother GC. If it gives monopoly power to unions, kills small business, bankrupts business, exponentially increases taxes, explodes the size of government, etc, rod is for it.

 

[RodnJen]

I feel sorry for those (and maybe yet still me) that do NOT want to be someone’s employee, but will be forced to.
That doesn’t sound like Freedom to me?

It’s not about freedom it’s about rights. You may well be an anomaly, there are 10’s of thousands in the state who are not.

 

[Carlson-jet]

It's not about freedom. My contractors test was about 600 questions. Most pertaining to how I was going to pay California their money. The trade part was a very bad joke at best.
This is a about them getting their claws into you.

 

[RCDave]

I feel sorry for those (and maybe yet still me) that do NOT want to be someone’s employee, but will be forced to.
That doesn’t sound like Freedom to me?

It's not. Some don't believe in freedom

 

[Jed-O]

Under the court’s new test, a worker is an employee if his or her job forms part of a company’s core business; if the bosses direct the way the work is done; or if the worker has not established an independent trade or business.

If you are going to 1099 people, they have to be a licensed contractor or have a license to do business is how I read it. This is the same as back in 89' when I got my license.
Now there are a few new players in the game.
As always, The exemptions. Many of the exemped have to have some type of license in place already in order to fulfil their duties.

AB 5 is narrower than the court decision due to the scores of occupations it exempts from the new test. Exempted workers include doctors, dentists, lawyers, engineers, accountants, architects, Realtors, travel agents, graphic designers, human resources administrators, grant writers, marketers, fine artists, investment advisors and broker-dealers.

Several exemptions come with conditions. Commercial fishermen are exempt except from unemployment insurance. Barbers, cosmetologists and manicurists are exempt only if they set their own rates, are paid directly by clients and schedule their own appointments. Salespersons are exempt, provided their pay is based on actual sales, rather than wholesale purchases or referrals.

"if the worker has not established an independent trade or business."

This is exactly what I'm talking about! (I'm getting an underline and don't know why, please bear with me)

My guy, an independent carpentry contractor, works for me by the HOUR.
His time is considered an invoice as well as any receipts for materials and such. His business is independent of mine, however his trade is not.
As a class "B" general building contractor, my first trade is technically carpentry...

 

[Jed-O]

Well I guess I'd better get to bed so I can make 50 cents tomorrow, owe the state another 50 bucks and dig myself deeper into the black hole.
Goodnight guys!

 

[Carlson-jet]

"if the worker has not established an independent trade or business."

This is exactly what I'm talking about! (I'm getting an underline and don't know why, please bear with me)

My guy, an independent carpentry contractor, works for me by the HOUR.
His time is considered an invoice as well as any receipts for materials and such. His business is independent of mine, however his trade is not.
As a class "B" general building contractor, my first trade is technically carpentry...

You have to Un-underline , italics etc.

I'm thinking you are most likely covered as long as he properly bills you. The whole "Contract" thing is a big complicated part of the test and was about CYA if things went sideways to not plug up the courts.
Huge lightning storm... Have to log off.
I hope my gutter repairs hold up.

 

[500bbc]

It's the state putting the onus on employers to do their job.
No mater how you pay a contract laborer or sub contractor they are still responsible for their own taxes and SSI.

 

[LargeOrangeFont]

I feel sorry for those (and maybe yet still me) that do NOT want to be someone’s employee, but will be forced to.
That doesn’t sound like Freedom to me?

Sounds like Rods tax utopia.

 

[rivrrts429]

It’s not about freedom it’s about rights. You may well be an anomaly, there are 10’s of thousands in the state who are not.

10’s of thousands? Those numbers sound like you’re referring to homeless and illegal immigrants?

 

[thetub]

10’s of thousands? Those numbers sound like you’re referring to homeless and illegal immigrants?

hey dont joke , dont be surprised if they make business owners provide work. comp. and insurance to vagrants pan handling and shooting up on their properties...

after all they are gaining income and "employment" from that establishment....

hahahahhaa

good morning RodyWody ....

you truly are an IDIOT

with all due respect of course

 

[Ragged Edge]

It’s not about freedom it’s about rights. You may well be an anomaly, there are 10’s of thousands in the state who are not.

I disagree. Currently these 10's of thousands have the right and the freedom to seek work as an employee instead of a 1099 contract worker if they so desire. This new law takes away that freedom of choice. This is about "Big Brother Government" steeping in because as usual they believe people can't make intelligent independent choices on their own.

 

[RodnJen]

I disagree. Currently these 10's of thousands have the right and the freedom to seek work as an employee instead of a 1099 contract worker if they so desire. This new law takes away that freedom of choice. This is about "Big Brother Government" steeping in because as usual they believe people can't make intelligent independent choices on their own.

You may well be right. The bill is also a result of years of abuses by employers. This is what happens when people, companies and institutions circumvent the rules and laws already in place.

 

[Ragged Edge]

You may well be right. The bill is also a result of years of abuses by employers. This is what happens when people, companies and institutions circumvent the rules and laws already in place.

You see abuses I see choices. No one forced anyone to become a 1099 contract worker. It was offered and accepted. If they did not educate themselves on the tax, health care, workers comp, etc., implications regarding that type of work that should be on them, not the business.

What this will do long term is drive the cost of services up, put people out of work and destroy many small businesses. I can't see any of that being a good thing.

 

[Old Texan]

You may well be right. The bill is also a result of years of abuses by employers. This is what happens when people, companies and institutions circumvent the rules and laws already in place.

Please elaborate how they are cutting corners. I'm not familiar with CA regs

 

[Racey]

What if you don’t hire them hourly but on piecework?

Because then you essentially have to bid, schedule, and contract for all the piecework, creating mountains of extra paperwork for the hirer.

Basically just creates a huge nightmare of documentation and micro management would be my guess.