Well this is couple years to late but still a step in the right direction

[H20 Toie]

https://www.cnn.com/2019/09/17/politics/trump-administration-california-auto-emissions/index.html

So if they had done this a couple years ago i would still have a couple of great guys working for me that i had to let go when i had to sell my Peterbilt and Freightliner because of California's stupid laws. even thou my truck had the clean emission motor i would have had to spend so much money updating them that it just didnt make sense so bye bye they went and unfortunately so did the drivers.

 

[Nordie]

I believe it's Caterpillar that finally pulled out of making California compliant emissions, they finally said fuck it.

 

[Shlbyntro]

I say let CA keep digging that hole deeper until it implodes with runaway localized inflation as all the smart people leave

 

[squeezer]

So much for states rights...

I guess y’all that think this is a good idea have to take down the confederate flags of the wall of yore garage’s

 

[hallett21]

I say let CA keep digging that hole deeper until it implodes with runaway localized inflation as all the smart people leave

Too much big money here for that to happen.

It’s sad that there can’t be a middle ground between “rolling coal” and a hippy Prius driver.

I think we should always be trying to improve efficiency and cleaning up the air. But we shouldn’t cripple citizens/business owners while countries like China billow filth into the air.




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[RiverDave]

So much for states rights...

I guess y’all that think this is a good idea have to take down the confederate flags of the wall of yore garage’s

I believe in states rights.. That said CARB is completely out of control.. it isn’t about environment anymore it’s a rogue agency that is finding anyone and everyone for any reason they feel like.

I am always against federal intrusion into a state though and don’t believe states or even communities should be taking federal money.

I guess my confederate flag is safe for now.. but thx for your concern.

 

[squeezer]

I lived in Riverside in the 70's... Remember getting sent home from school on smog days.

Hope you SoCal guys enjoy chewing your air.


https://timeline.com/la-smog-pollution-4ca4bc0cc95d

 

[HighVoltage329]

Too much big money here for that to happen.

It’s sad that there can’t be a middle ground between “rolling coal” and a hippy Prius driver.

I think we should always be trying to improve efficiency and cleaning up the air. But we shouldn’t cripple citizens/business owners while countries like China billow filth into the air.




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I use to hate the emission laws but look what it forced the auto industry to come up with. More powerful cleaner running engines that we ever had before.

 

[LargeOrangeFont]

So much for states rights...

I guess y’all that think this is a good idea have to take down the confederate flags of the wall of yore garage’s

Yea.. it’s a good idea to have 50 versions of every car to comply with every state’s law and 50 different versions of every sign and placard on the road too.

And limiting your ability to purchase any car from anywhere and bring it into your state is a bad idea too.

 

[LargeOrangeFont]

I lived in Riverside in the 70's... Remember getting sent home from school on smog days.

Hope you SoCal guys enjoy chewing your air.


https://timeline.com/la-smog-pollution-4ca4bc0cc95d

Says the guy driving a gas guzzling pollution machine Raptor...

Going with the 49 state standard emission requirements is not going to change anything significant with regards to pollution.

 

[LargeOrangeFont]

I use to hate the emission laws but look what it forced the auto industry to come up with. More powerful cleaner running engines that we ever had before.

Emission laws are great. Having every state determine their own is dumb.

In CA you can’t even buy furniture unless it is CARB compliant.

You know what would help pollution? Removing the 1 million+ vehicles off the road driven around by illegal aliens

 

[HNL2LHC]

Interesting to see hoe things go in San Francisco. I see a lot of soccer mom vans doing the deliveries where we are at. I wonder if that is how they are getting around things. The window lickers delivery guy driving the vans parking in the middle of the street. It is a total cluster fuck. I’d hate to have to live in this city. 3 months has been too long!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[pronstar]

I lived in Riverside in the 70's... Remember getting sent home from school on smog days.

Hope you SoCal guys enjoy chewing your air.


https://timeline.com/la-smog-pollution-4ca4bc0cc95d

Are you getting smog days today?
When was the last time you had a CA smog day?

Emission standards will be frozen at current levels.
Not lessened to the standards of when we were kids.




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[Shlbyntro]

I use to hate the emission laws but look what it forced the auto industry to come up with. More powerful cleaner running engines that we ever had before.

And on the flip side:
In the 1950s, the average cost of a new car was about 45% of the average total annual household income. $1,550/$3,300

Today, the average cost of a new car is about 75% of the average total annual household income $40,000/$54,000

The technology we demand is causing vehicle prices to race away faster than inflation can keep up.

 

[mjc]

So much for states rights...

I guess y’all that think this is a good idea have to take down the confederate flags of the wall of yore garage’s

So the EPA shouldn't exist then, right?

 

[Backlash]

Lets not forget about people trying to keep up with the Jones's. Buying cars that they truly can't afford, to try and make everyone THINK they have more money than they really do. You can drag your kids to school in a 5 or 10 year old Suburban just as easily as you can in a 2019 Denali.

 

[RodnJen]

I believe in states rights.. That said CARB is completely out of control.. it isn’t about environment anymore it’s a rogue agency that is finding anyone and everyone for any reason they feel like.

I am always against federal intrusion into a state though and don’t believe states or even communities should be taking federal money.

I guess my confederate flag is safe for now.. but thx for your concern.

For the most part states, counties, cities, etc couldn’t function without federal money. Infrastructure investment would cease to exist. Even with property tax and local sales tax measures, federal funds are huge part of the equation.

 

[MK1MOD0]

It’s about time. I can only imagine if all 50 states decided to just make up their own emissions standard. I always thought Carb was absurd when it came to cars. This should have been done the first time CA wanted to implement their own standards in the 60’s

 

[02HoWaRd26]

Would love to see this same article without the libtard spin on it from the Crap News Network.

 

[H20 Toie]

Totally agree we need emissions standards but what we don’t need is two sets, it was such bullshit that my truck that was legal in all the other states wasn't here, i lost my ass on it and had to ship it out of state even though it had the clean emissions motor, not to mention the jobs that were lost because i let two guys go since i didnt need them, i spend more money now on trucking than i use to since i now hire a trucking company but less than it would have cost me to keep the trucks,

 

[Flying_Lavey]

About damn time CARB gets curtailed!

Now they need to do something about SCAQMD. It's regulations on EVERYTHING are absurd!

For those that don't know, the SCAQMD demands that any household furnace meet their extremely low NOX output target. Problem is, there is not a single furnace made that can meet that target. So, they essentially just added a $400 tax (might be higher, not too sure) to EVERY new furnace sold in their district.

But hey..... It's all about the environment right?

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[MeCasa16]

And on the flip side:
In the 1950s, the average cost of a new car was about 45% of the average total annual household income. $1,550/$3,300

Today, the average cost of a new car is about 75% of the average total annual household income $40,000/$54,000

The technology we demand is causing vehicle prices to race away faster than inflation can keep up.

It also doesn’t help that wages aren’t keeping up with inflation..
Many of the last several years, my union work contract has had an annual 1% raise. Taking inflation into account, I’m actually taking a pay cut.


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[HB2Havasu]

Although I agree California (especially CARB) has gotten way out of control in recent years, but y’all know that this is a violation of states rights and will fail in court.

It’s basically a Political “FU” to Gavin Newsome and the Libtard Nation he governs. It will be great fodder for Trumps 2020 campaign!!! (Which btw he better win or we’re all fucked!!!)

 

[Shlbyntro]

Although I agree California (especially CARB) has gotten way out of control in recent years, but y’all know that this is a violation of states rights and will fail in court.



It’s basically a Political “FU” to Gavin Newsome and the Libtard Nation he governs. It will be great fodder for Trumps 2020 campaign!!! (Which btw he better win or we’re all fucked!!!)

Who says he has to enforce it by law. He could just take away federal highway money unless Newsome gets on board with a federal emissions program

 

[pronstar]

Although I agree California (especially CARB) has gotten way out of control in recent years, but y’all know that this is a violation of states rights and will fail in court.

It’s basically a Political “FU” to Gavin Newsome and the Libtard Nation he governs. It will be great fodder for Trumps 2020 campaign!!! (Which btw he better win or we’re all fucked!!!)

There’s also an interstate commerce component, which is under Federal jurisdiction.


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[DrunkenSailor]

And on the flip side:
In the 1950s, the average cost of a new car was about 45% of the average total annual household income. $1,550/$3,300

Today, the average cost of a new car is about 75% of the average total annual household income $40,000/$54,000

The technology we demand is causing vehicle prices to race away faster than inflation can keep up.

Especially anything with the ability to tow.

Lets not forget about people trying to keep up with the Jones's. Buying cars that they truly can't afford, to try and make everyone THINK they have more money than they really do. You can drag your kids to school in a 5 or 10 year old Suburban just as easily as you can in a 2019 Denali.

have you priced a 5-10 year old suburban lately? The car market is out of control. A civic, sentra, corolla and a fit all start at over 18k. Good look finding one on a lot under 20. There is no such thing as a cheap car anymore unless you buy a pos used beater that will require more work than its worth.

 

[LargeOrangeFont]

Especially anything with the ability to tow.



have you priced a 5-10 year old suburban lately? The car market is out of control. A civic, sentra, corolla and a fit all start at over 18k. Good look finding one on a lot under 20. There is no such thing as a cheap car anymore unless you buy a pos used beater that will require more work than its worth.

To be fair, there is nothing that says you need to buy a new car. A 7-10 year old truck or SUV is generally in the teens, and 1/2 to 1/3 of original MSRP. That seems pretty reasonable, and most of those still have plenty of life left.

Several years ago I bought a 8 year old 4Runner 70k miles for $13k. I put 100k miles on it and sold it for $10k. It needed basic wear items and a water pump in that time.

That said you aren’t going to CarMax to get a deal on a used car.

 

[Old Texan]

And on the flip side:
In the 1950s, the average cost of a new car was about 45% of the average total annual household income. $1,550/$3,300

Today, the average cost of a new car is about 75% of the average total annual household income $40,000/$54,000

The technology we demand is causing vehicle prices to race away faster than inflation can keep up.

Initial cost yes, cost over the period of ownership no. Today's vehicles last 3-4 times longer with way less maintenance.

Cars of the '50's on into the '70's would require major tune ups every 15K miles, new tires every 25-30K miles, new exhausts every couple years in cold states, and entire suspension changes/replacement at least once in 100K miles. Motors were good for around 100K and entire vehicles were rarely dependable over 120K.

Today it's nothing to have vehicles last over 200K, most with the majority of original major parts and components. And today's vehicles have all the amenities that were extras, if even available w/o special order. Safer, cleaner, and more powerful on top of it. And far cheaper to maintain.....I've not bought a muffler or shock absorber as a required replacement since 1980. Not to mention starters, alternaters, and a/c components being rare fixes.

 

[HB2Havasu]

Who says he has to enforce it by law. He could just take away federal highway money unless Newsome gets on board with a federal emissions program

You do understand the Federal Emissions standard is based on a ‘minimum’ requirement not a ‘not to exceed’ requirement” Right? lol

 

[LuauLounge]

I haven't bought spark plugs since the 1980's.

 

[Shlbyntro]

You do understand the Federal Emissions standard is based on a ‘minimum’ requirement not a ‘not to exceed’ requirement” Right? lol

Yes but it can be reworked to suit the needed end goal.

 

[Universal Elements]

I lived in Riverside in the 70's... Remember getting sent home from school on smog days.

Hope you SoCal guys enjoy chewing your air.


https://timeline.com/la-smog-pollution-4ca4bc0cc95d

In the old days, A lot were from the Kaiser Steel plant. Now, you look out to the Pacific Ocean in the morning and you see nothing but brown on the horizon. Was not like that in the old days. You could do whatever you want as far as emissions in the US is concerned. The two biggest polluting culprits in the world are India and China. This is just New Delhi & Beijing.

 

[RiverDave]

For the most part states, counties, cities, etc couldn’t function without federal money. Infrastructure investment would cease to exist. Even with property tax and local sales tax measures, federal funds are huge part of the equation.

We can agree to disagree on that.. LOL

RD

 

[530RL]

I try to think of the big picture and the big picture for me is that I don't want a big federal government telling states what they can and can not do any more than they already engage in. If I don't like what a state is doing, I can move to another. If the feds get to tell everyone their way or the highway, we're all fucked. That is why we are a Republic of States, and not a democracy.

And the reason why is because the other side is going to be in charge again, and when "their" big federal government starts shoving things up the states ass, objectively those who support this federal imposition just because they like it, have no place to complain when something they don't like gets rammed down their throats in the future.

Being consistent sometimes is the tortured path, but it is the best path.

 

[LargeOrangeFont]

I try to think of the big picture and the big picture for me is that I don't want a big federal government telling states what they can and can not do any more than they already engage in. If I don't like what a state is doing, I can move to another. If the feds get to tell everyone their way or the highway, we're all fucked.

And the reason why is because the other side is going to be in charge again, and when "their" big federal government starts shoving things up the states ass, objectively those who support this federal imposition just because they like it, have no place to complain when something they don't like gets rammed down their throats in the future.

Being consistent sometimes is the tortured path, but it is the best path.

I see your point but that is being consistently inconsistent. If federal funds were used to build roads inside states, there should be a federal standard, not a heightened or lowered standard as you cross various state lines. That makes it harder for you as the consumer, a business owner, and the car MFG. This is what the EPA is supposed to do. So blow up the EPA and let states do their own thing entirely, or let the EPA do what it is there to do and dissolve state appointed bureaucracies like CARB.

Instead we have the worst possible outcome.. bureaucracies fighting with other bureaucracies

 

[Gelcoater]

For the most part states, counties, cities, etc couldn’t function without federal money. Infrastructure investment would cease to exist. Even with property tax and local sales tax measures, federal funds are huge part of the equation.

Tell that to your fit throwing liberal Cal-Exit pals.
Like @GRADS

 

[530RL]

I see your point but that is being consistently inconsistent. If federal funds were used to build roads inside states, there should be a federal standard, not a heightened or lowered standard as you cross various state lines. That makes it harder for you as the consumer, a business owner, and the car MFG. This is what the EPA is supposed to do. So blow up the EPA and let states do their own thing entirely, or let the EPA do what it is there to do and dissolve state appointed bureaucracies like CARB.

Instead we have the worst possible outcome.. bureaucracies fighting with other bureaucracies

To be consistent with your view above, any time a state receives money from the federal government, the federal government shall be in charge and the state may not be.

For example, there should be no school boards, no school districts; education should all be run by the fed, for efficiencies sake of course.

After all, parents fighting with a federal and state bureaucracies are the "worst possible outcome". We should just let the feds be in charge.......

 

[MK1MOD0]

I’m big on states rights. Saying that, there are a few areas where federal law really needs to take precedence. Transportation is one. Due to its actual nature of transporting people, cargo ect across state lines. Imagine if states all had their own laws on aircraft regulations, or train tracks were all different sizing state to state. It would be a total disaster. New car standards should all follow one standard as well.

 

[LargeOrangeFont]

To be consistent with your view above, any time a state receives money from the federal government, the federal government shall be in charge and the state may not be.

For example, there should be no school boards, no school districts; education should all be run by the fed, for efficiencies sake of course.

After all, parents fighting with a federal and state bureaucracies are the "worst possible outcome". We should just let the feds be in charge.......

You are single pane of glassing this issue as well. This is not a logic thought exercise. We are talking about one set of regulations here. Not every set of regulations works the same way. There already are federal emission standards that most (like over 2/3) of states adopted and use. It makes sense to have one common set of regulations for cars that are sold nationally.

We can continue down your thought experiment with CCW regulations. You can be in one state as someone that has passed fairly extensive background checks and is able to concealed carry a weapon, and walk across a state line and are a felon.

Yea that makes a lot of sense.

There actually are issues where .gov can step in and make people’s lives easier. The EPA already exists for these national standards.

 

[Yellowboat]

I am all for less pollution, but most of the carb / air quality district rules make no sense.

Take sqmd ( sacramento air quailty mangment district)rules on lacquer. They said you could could add tints too it, but could not shake it. Which to be fair is not trivial as there is an explosion risk and it takes special shakers. So every paint company opened up a store in west Sacramento tinted and shook it there then sent it back into Sacramento. Now west sac is about 1000 yard from the capital building just on the other side of the river. Totally say to do it there, but not in sacramento.

I had an 84 Bronco that I had to get rid of do to not passing smog. That was after carb said it had to meet a stricter standard then it can off the lot with. In fact tmit actually had better numbers then it did the smog before. How do you expect a car/ truck to meet a stricker smog in the 2010s, 2hen it was made in the 80? Which interestingly enough I could have done with a fuel injection conversion from edlebrock. The truck already had 2 o2 sensors and a variable diaphragm carb. It would have been a direct bolt on, but not carb compliant ( aka give us 50k and will test it) that's the type of stuff that needs to stop.

 

[King P.V.]

They have created a monster they can not now control. There's no middle ground. What started as an necessary evil... is now just evil.

 

[spectras only]

Since California is the sunniest state in the US, I assume it's the largest user of solar panels,containing some nasty chemicals. Over the span of 20-30 years after they expire, is California working on a plan how to properly dispose/re-cycle them? Also, is there a levy added to solar panels like we pay buying tires?

To recycle a solar panel, it has to be separated into its different components. The metal and glass frames are removed and recycled like bottles and cans. This leaves the cells themselves, which can be treated in a number of ways. In one process, the entire panel is shredded and then crushed to fully separate the materials. Then, the materials are spun with a weak sulfuric acid and hydrogen peroxide solution in a drum for 4 to 6 hours. After that, the material is fed through several screens to separate the materials further. The materials then receive three sodium hydroxide rinses and are pressed into cakes of raw materials for use in new solar panels or other goods.

Another method removes the plastic components first by exposing the material to high temperatures. This melts the plastic components and causes others to evaporate. The evaporation also has a side benefit of powering the reactor itself. After this, the material undergoes an etching process that leaves only the glass, metal, and silicon parts. The glass and metal, like in the first process, go to existing recycling centers. The silicon then goes to a panel manufacturer as a raw material.

When plastic is burned, it releases dangerous chemicals such as hydrochloric acid, sulfur dioxide, dioxins, furans and heavy metals, as well as particulates. These emissions are known to cause respiratory ailments and stress human immune systems, and they're potentially carcinogenic.

What we need is more chemicals

 

[EmpirE231]

I lived in Riverside in the 70's... Remember getting sent home from school on smog days.

Hope you SoCal guys enjoy chewing your air.


https://timeline.com/la-smog-pollution-4ca4bc0cc95d

probably has to do more with all the businesses and factories that left California since that time...

 

[Singleton]

CARB is out of control.
Emissions should be set at a national level, not by each state

 

[Racey]

I believe in states rights.. That said CARB is completely out of control.. it isn’t about environment anymore it’s a rogue agency that is finding anyone and everyone for any reason they feel like.

I am always against federal intrusion into a state though and don’t believe states or even communities should be taking federal money.

I guess my confederate flag is safe for now.. but thx for your concern.

I don't know how this ever passed muster with the 'Interstate Commerce' clause in the first place, as this is a clear example of federal gov's constitutional delegation to regulate interstate commerce.

 

[Flying_Lavey]

CARB
Cause Air Reacts to Borders


It's a really good thing that air and pollution never migrate through the atmosphere......

Found a video of a guy demonstrating CARB's policies....

Sent from my LM-G710VM using Tapatalk

 

[BajaMike]

About damn time CARB gets curtailed!

Now they need to do something about SCAQMD. It's regulations on EVERYTHING are absurd!

For those that don't know, the SCAQMD demands that any household furnace meet their extremely low NOX output target. Problem is, there is not a single furnace made that can meet that target. So, they essentially just added a $400 tax (might be higher, not too sure) to EVERY new furnace sold in their district.

But hey..... It's all about the environment right?

Sent from my LM-G710VM using Tapatalk

Agree. The SCAQMD is totally out of control, run by a bunch of over paid tree huggers appointed by the failing Democrat city, county and state officials. Remember when they wanted to ban charcoal and gas BBQs? And wanted to ban gas lawnmowers?

In June we needed coolant for our two main A/C units. One was a few years old and it cost about $90 to re-charge. The other one is 25 years old, using the older “bad” coolant, it costs $900 to re-charge because of the penalties of using the old style coolant.

Those ass holes are out of control!

 

[530RL]

What’s somewhat interesting is what politician established CARB?

Amazes me how things change from generation to generation.

 

[Flying_Lavey]

Agree. The SCAQMD is totally out of control, run by a bunch of over paid tree huggers appointed by the failing Democrat city, county and state officials. Remember when they wanted to ban charcoal and gas BBQs? And wanted to ban gas lawnmowers?

In June we needed coolant for our two main A/C units. One was a few years old and it cost about $90 to re-charge. The other one is 25 years old, using the older “bad” coolant, it costs $900 to re-charge because of the penalties of using the old style coolant.

Those ass holes are out of control!

SCAQMD has a penalty for using R-22? The EPA has phased out it's production so it's getting pretty pricey now.

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[rush1]

Research Mary Nickels and who she is and where she came from! Absolute joke