WELCOME TO RIVER DAVES PLACE

Good one Gavin

Mr. C

going back in time
Joined
Dec 19, 2007
Messages
8,722
Reaction score
10,240
Could we see no NCAA playoffs in the future for CA. teams?
And then possibly no out of state games because players are paid? (basically Pro vs amature)
 

Bobby V

Havasu1986
Joined
Dec 20, 2007
Messages
23,300
Reaction score
12,842
Could we see no NCAA playoffs in the future for CA. teams?
And then possibly no out of state games because players are paid? (basically Pro vs amature)
If the Power 5 conferences have their way the NCAA maybe gone by then.
 

Flying_Lavey

Dreaming of the lake
Joined
Feb 13, 2008
Messages
20,405
Reaction score
17,196
Could we see no NCAA playoffs in the future for CA. teams?
And then possibly no out of state games because players are paid? (basically Pro vs amature)
Unless the very quickly moving NCAA changes it's rules about it.... You are correct. Private schools MAY have more work around options in that regard but the public schools I doubt will have any at all.

Sent from my LM-G710VM using Tapatalk
 

Ragged Edge

Man in the Box
Joined
May 4, 2011
Messages
2,074
Reaction score
2,473
Four or five years of paid college education is not enough? If these athletes are allowed to profit off of endorsements they will very quickly stop going to class to get an education, then become ineligible to play in games. It's going to get real messy, real quick.
 

530RL

Well-Known Member
Joined
Sep 18, 2012
Messages
21,175
Reaction score
20,146
We don’t live in a socialist country where labor is free, we live in America where people get paid to work.

It doesn’t take effect until 2023 and 11 other states are considering similar laws.

I’m surprised Newsom would support free markets and capitalism but he did In this case.

He got this right. He’s one for one hundred. :)
 

was thatguy

living in a cage of fear
Joined
Apr 28, 2008
Messages
51,526
Reaction score
95,356
We don’t live in a socialist country where labor is free, we live in America where people get paid to work.

It doesn’t take effect until 2023 and 11 other states are considering similar laws.

I’m surprised Newsom would support free markets and capitalism but he did In this case.

He got this right. He’s one for one hundred. :)

So full rides (or even partials) have no value?
 

LargeOrangeFont

We aren't happy until you aren't happy
Joined
Sep 4, 2015
Messages
49,690
Reaction score
76,151
So full rides (or even partials) have no value?

Those “Cadillac Education Plans” should be taxed!


With regard to this legislation, I don’t even care. This is so far down on my priority list and does not affect my life at all.

The state is doing it for more tax revenue, pure and simple :)
 

Danger Dave

Sarcastically Optimistic 😁
Joined
Jun 16, 2013
Messages
14,348
Reaction score
39,360
What happens when some athletes at bigger schools make more than athletes at smaller schools? What happens when a female athlete sues because a male football player makes more? This is going to be a gong show.
 

LargeOrangeFont

We aren't happy until you aren't happy
Joined
Sep 4, 2015
Messages
49,690
Reaction score
76,151
What happens when some athletes at bigger schools make more than athletes at smaller schools? What happens when a female athlete sues because a male football player makes more? This is going to be a gong show.

When the left consumes itself :)

This will be their first lesson ever in capitalism and free markets.
 

was thatguy

living in a cage of fear
Joined
Apr 28, 2008
Messages
51,526
Reaction score
95,356
Those “Cadillac Education Plans” should be taxed!


With regard to this legislation, I don’t even care. This is so far down on my priority list and does not affect my life at all.

The state is doing it for more tax revenue, pure and simple :)

Oh I agree!
Nothing CA does concerns me much anymore.
I just wondered how an education traded for athletic participation is socialist?
Frankly, I’m kind of surprised he didn’t compare the poor athletes as slaves to their collegiate masters.
Then again, the dollar is his place of worship so there is that.
 

Danger Dave

Sarcastically Optimistic 😁
Joined
Jun 16, 2013
Messages
14,348
Reaction score
39,360
Oh I agree!
Nothing CA does concerns me much anymore.
I just wondered how an education traded for athletic participation is socialist?
Frankly, I’m kind of surprised he didn’t compare the poor athletes as slaves to their collegiate masters.
Then again, the dollar is his place of worship so there is that.

You don't think he was pandering signing this bill on Lebron James' show?
 

530RL

Well-Known Member
Joined
Sep 18, 2012
Messages
21,175
Reaction score
20,146
So full rides (or even partials) have no value?


If you are the best in your field as a legal adult, you would be perfectly willing to allow the government to give an anti-trust exemption to all your possible employers so that they could legally cap your pay regardless of your skills or market value?

You get the same as everyone else, regardless of your skills or the value you add, no more, no less?

You would be perfectly happy and approve of the government capping your pay and opportunity?
 

was thatguy

living in a cage of fear
Joined
Apr 28, 2008
Messages
51,526
Reaction score
95,356
If you are the best in your field as a legal adult, you would be perfectly willing to allow the government to give an anti-trust exemption to all your possible employers so that they could legally cap your pay regardless of your skills or market value?

You get the same as everyone else, regardless of your skills or the value you add, no more, no less?

You would be perfectly happy with the government capping your pay and opportunity?

Professional level comes after school, college in this instance.
Many athletes never go pro, as you know. They use their scholarships for an actual education.
Those that do make it to the professional level cash in at that point. (Discounting “perks” that top tier college athletes receive)

Why are you purposely dismissing the distinction between amateur and pro?
If “amateurs” are defacto pro athletes, should they not already be taxed for their education?
What’s next? “Pro” high schoolers?

In my field, I made less wages for lesser positions as I worked my way up. Each position did have a set pay scale. After reaching the point where I could contract out my acquired skill, at a specific position, I did just that.

Personally I don’t care. Doesn’t make a damn bit of difference to me.
It just seems that your completely erasing the distinction between amateur and pro.
And how is “the government” capping anything?
 

Sleek-Jet

Well-Known Member
Joined
Sep 20, 2007
Messages
12,709
Reaction score
15,369
The argument goes that the schools and the NCAA make millions using the athletes and the athletes see "none" of it.

The flip side of this coin is that a law could be passed not allowing the schools to profit from the athletes.
 

530RL

Well-Known Member
Joined
Sep 18, 2012
Messages
21,175
Reaction score
20,146
Professional level comes after school, college in this instance.
Many athletes never go pro, as you know. They use their scholarships for an actual education.
Those that do make it to the professional level cash in at that point. (Discounting “perks” that top tier college athletes receive)

Why are you purposely dismissing the distinction between amateur and pro?
If “amateurs” are defacto pro athletes, should they not already be taxed for their education?
What’s next? “Pro” high schoolers?

In my field, I made less wages for lesser positions as I worked my way up. Each position did have a set pay scale. After reaching the point where I could contract out my acquired skill, at a specific position, I did just that.

Personally I don’t care. Doesn’t make a damn bit of difference to me.
It just seems that your completely erasing the distinction between amateur and pro.
And how is “the government” capping anything?



An individual in high school can choose to play a sport or choose not to play a sport and still stay in school and receive the education. That is an amateur.

A college athlete signs a contract to play a sport. And if they choose to no longer play that sport, they no longer receive that compensation and if they can not pay it out of pocket, must leave that place of employeement/school.

That is fee for service. That is an employment contract and as such they are not “amateurs”.

Consistent with employment law that exists today, those fee for service employees should have the same right to negotiate the fees for their service as any other adult.

However they can not as both state governments and the federal government protects the employers from the same rules and regulations other private enterprises have.

And that is antithetical to conservative principles.
 

Flying_Lavey

Dreaming of the lake
Joined
Feb 13, 2008
Messages
20,405
Reaction score
17,196
An individual in high school can choose to play a sport or choose not to play a sport and still stay in school and receive the education. That is an amateur.

A college athlete signs a contract to play a sport. And if they choose to no longer play that sport, they no longer receive that compensation and if they can not pay it out of pocket, must leave that place of employeement/school.

That is fee for service. That is an employment contract and as such they are not “amateurs”.

Consistent with employment law that exists today, those fee for service employees should have the same right to negotiate the fees for their service as any other adult.

However they can not as both state governments and the federal government protects the employers from the same rules and regulations other private enterprises have.

And that is antithetical to conservative principles.
In the same line of thinking then..... It is perfectly legal and acceptable to mandate that an "employee" cannot do side work or any other work that would interfere with their work. So these employees are being compensated as you pointed out. The governing body has rules that essentially do not allow "side work". Hmmm...... Sounds just like almost every tradesman's employment contract.

Sent from my LM-G710VM using Tapatalk
 

530RL

Well-Known Member
Joined
Sep 18, 2012
Messages
21,175
Reaction score
20,146
In the same line of thinking then..... It is perfectly legal and acceptable to mandate that an "employee" cannot do side work or any other work that would interfere with their work. So these employees are being compensated as you pointed out. The governing body has rules that essentially do not allow "side work". Hmmm...... Sounds just like almost every tradesman's employment contract.

Sent from my LM-G710VM using Tapatalk


Exactly,

Which is why I live in and support right to work states.

As that is consistent with free markets and capitalism.
 

Gelcoater

Well-Known Member
Joined
Sep 26, 2009
Messages
21,606
Reaction score
36,017
I know a lot of people that don’t really watch pro ball because of all the douchebaggery, bebauchery, and shitbaggery among the NFL, so they watch college ball.
Because those guys are hungry.
They’re looking to go pro douche!


Now, these guys will quickly turn into the paumpus pricks the pro guys are, only they haven’t even graduated college yet.

Good job tards!
 

nowski

Well-Known Member
Joined
Mar 11, 2013
Messages
6,954
Reaction score
9,258
In College Football how many guys on any given team will get these endorsements?

How many players will get zero endorsements?

The old saying use to be There is No " I " in Team.

The new saying may be, "Me, Myself and My Endorsements". We'll have to wait and see how this one plays out...
 

Flying_Lavey

Dreaming of the lake
Joined
Feb 13, 2008
Messages
20,405
Reaction score
17,196
Exactly,

Which is why I live in and support right to work states.

As that is consistent with free markets and capitalism.
So then how is it ok to pass this law regarding the NCAA athletes but not all employers?

If nothing changes at the NCAA level before this goes into effect it won't allow the California schools to compete in post season play.

This should have NEVER been decided by the state. California needs to stop trying to bully the rest of the nation to it's 2 metropolitan areas' will.

Sent from my LM-G710VM using Tapatalk
 

Sleek-Jet

Well-Known Member
Joined
Sep 20, 2007
Messages
12,709
Reaction score
15,369
An individual in high school can choose to play a sport or choose not to play a sport and still stay in school and receive the education. That is an amateur.

A college athlete signs a contract to play a sport. And if they choose to no longer play that sport, they no longer receive that compensation and if they can not pay it out of pocket, must leave that place of employeement/school.

That is fee for service. That is an employment contract and as such they are not “amateurs”.

Consistent with employment law that exists today, those fee for service employees should have the same right to negotiate the fees for their service as any other adult.

However they can not as both state governments and the federal government protects the employers from the same rules and regulations other private enterprises have.

And that is antithetical to conservative principles.

At a private college you would be correct. But a true conservative won't abide a state run school having paid athletes. In fact, if what you want is a minor league football system then these programs should be separated from public education funds and made to stand on their own. That is conservatism and capitalist market practices at work.
 
Last edited:

was thatguy

living in a cage of fear
Joined
Apr 28, 2008
Messages
51,526
Reaction score
95,356
An individual in high school can choose to play a sport or choose not to play a sport and still stay in school and receive the education. That is an amateur.

A college athlete signs a contract to play a sport. And if they choose to no longer play that sport, they no longer receive that compensation and if they can not pay it out of pocket, must leave that place of employeement/school.

That is fee for service. That is an employment contract and as such they are not “amateurs”.

Consistent with employment law that exists today, those fee for service employees should have the same right to negotiate the fees for their service as any other adult.

However they can not as both state governments and the federal government protects the employers from the same rules and regulations other private enterprises have.

And that is antithetical to conservative principles.

Non compete clauses not withstanding?

If I work as a 1099 employee for “acme Directional” it is usually through a consulting firm that provides the liability bonding and payroll service for my “employment”. Usually for around 10% of my day rate, paid by my “employer”, not me.
If I carry my own bonding and avoid the consulting middleman I can charge more BUT...most outfits are contracted with these firms as a sort of temp service for freelancers and I CAN NOT bypass the consulting firm as a freelancer for a period of one year after my last date of service through that firm.

Basically, it’s not as cut and dried as your example might demonstrate.
I see a giant clusterfuck on the way.
 

Old Texan

Honorary Warden #377 Emeritus - R.I.P.
Joined
Dec 19, 2007
Messages
24,479
Reaction score
25,978
To me pay for play can only work in D1 schools with programs bringing in the big TV money. Then unless money is dispersed in some fair manner to team members, there will be a myriad of problems.

Kids currently have earned the rights to transfer and play without sitting out a season. This is the first step to paying them, yet doesn't address the team money dispersal issue.

And when this all happens, look for players unions to form in order to agree how money is dispersed. Players ain't gonna like coaches making the big money they currently get at the top programs. You can get rid of the NCAA, but you will never get rid of "management" entities outside individual schools.

Gavin making a decree is a long way from setting up and fair and working system. Way too much money involved plus too many mouths to feed and keep happy.
 

was thatguy

living in a cage of fear
Joined
Apr 28, 2008
Messages
51,526
Reaction score
95,356
To me pay for play can only work in D1 schools with programs bringing in the big TV money. Then unless money is dispersed in some fair manner to team members, there will be a myriad of problems.

Kids currently have earned the rights to transfer and play without sitting out a season. This is the first step to paying them, yet doesn't address the team money dispersal issue.

And when this all happens, look for players unions to form in order to agree how money is dispersed. Players ain't gonna like coaches making the big money they currently get at the top programs. You can get rid of the NCAA, but you will never get rid of "management" entities outside individual schools.

Gavin making a decree is a long way from setting up and fair and working system. Way too much money involved plus too many mouths to feed and keep happy.

The NFL players Union is (I assume?) a big part of the separation between the league and player endorsements?

I was thinking about this earlier. College players will very quickly have a group of lawyers that could outnumber players!
 

wallnutz

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jul 7, 2010
Messages
7,235
Reaction score
15,378
Outnumber pa
The NFL players Union is (I assume?) a big part of the separation between the league and player endorsements?

I was thinking about this earlier. College players will very quickly have a group of lawyers that could outnumber players![/QUOTE
Outnumber unpaid players, or paid players? There is definitely going to be some hurt feelings in the locker room.
 

was thatguy

living in a cage of fear
Joined
Apr 28, 2008
Messages
51,526
Reaction score
95,356
Outnumber pa

Well, according to today’s logic lesson, the exchange of education (real or facsimile, lol) for athletic participation makes any level of scholarship player a defacto employee.
So the first move by the lawyers will be that ALL players are compensated in some way, whether by sponsors or schools.
The vendors will likely be extorted by the school for the “rights” to sponsor their employees (players) while under school employ.

I think it’ll eventually turn into basically semi pro farm leagues attached to schools, and these will be separate from traditional NCAA schools.
 

wallnutz

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jul 7, 2010
Messages
7,235
Reaction score
15,378
Well, according to today’s logic lesson, the exchange of education (real or facsimile, lol) for athletic participation makes any level of scholarship player a defacto employee.
So the first move by the lawyers will be that ALL players are compensated in some way, whether by sponsors or schools.
The vendors will likely be extorted by the school for the “rights” to sponsor their employees (players) while under school employ.

I think it’ll eventually turn into basically semi pro farm leagues attached to schools, and these will be separate from traditional NCAA schools.
I didn't see the above education, sometimes I ignore that teacher.:p
 

Uncle Dave

Well-Known Member
Joined
Sep 7, 2008
Messages
9,826
Reaction score
10,929
Unsure how I feel about this.

Now the states and fed are subsidizing a professional entertainment industry.


UD
 

Danger Dave

Sarcastically Optimistic 😁
Joined
Jun 16, 2013
Messages
14,348
Reaction score
39,360
Very few D1 Athletic Programs turn a profit. I think the number I heard is less than 10 out of all D1 schools.
 

Uncle Dave

Well-Known Member
Joined
Sep 7, 2008
Messages
9,826
Reaction score
10,929
Very few D1 Athletic Programs turn a profit. I think the number I heard is less than 10 out of all D1 schools.

ON that note - If they don't turn a profit then athlete payment comes from somewhere else - like tuition money.

UD
 
Top