Do you think this is murder?

[River Runnin]

In California, murder requires "malice aforethought." I'm just not seeing that in this case.

Unless the prosecutor is saying the malice aforethought was right before she pulled the trigger. In her mind she was just walking into her apartment, the door pushed open when she put the key in the lock, and there was a silhouette getting up off the couch. He was a big man, she is petite. Sounds to me that she had every right to shoot him.

I've worked many 18 hour shifts and came home so tired that I didn't even know my name. I just don't see the murder charge. Manslaughter absolutely.

Are you fucking serious!.... She had every right to shoot him!?? .... And you wear a badge!.... That's fucked up!!

 

[Havasu blue label]

Maybe they should look at all the overtime they put in since we us that as a excuse

 

[Chili Palmer]

She was a trained police officer, if "her" apartment was being burglarized, call it in, the guy has only one way out. Stay there and wait for back up. She was distracted by sexting, but as an officer she didn't follow proper protocol. She's guilty, because she let emotion take over instead of procedure.

 

[Yellowboat]

Maybe they should look at all the overtime they put in since we us that as a excuse

This brings up another point... if you were tired enough to park on the wrong floor of a parking structure, miss a bunch of signage, miss not seeing a huge planter.... would you really be awake enough for sexting?

I was a boomer for years where 12- 16hour days were the norm... 18 was not unheard of and a full 24 hours working did happen. I can tell you after 16, sex was the last thing on my mind.

 

[Old Texan]

When she didn't back out and call in backup, she lost her right to self defense unless it was a real criminal in her own apartment and he came after her. She missed all clear opportunities to realize her mistake and by going in gun blazing sealed her fate.

Black or whatever is no point in the evidence. A human being was sitting in his own home and died for doing nothing more. His death deserves more than a lesser charge by someone who committed grave errors and showed complete lack of judgement, trying to now feel remorse.

The jury was given 2 choices of the degree of the crime and chose to harshest based on their opinions of the evidence. That is justice.

 

[SoCalDave]

I think one of the biggest things against her other than shooting him is they proved she didn't try to revive him because she was texting her fuk buddy.
Sad deal for both...

 

[Tank]

I've worked plenty of 18-24 hour shifts back to back even. 120 hours of overtime in a 12 day period during the fair every year. I've never in my life been tired enough to enter the wrong house, or even park on the wrong street, or even take the wrong street for that matter. I hate Monday morning quarter backing these things because there's so much info the public doesn't know but in the end you pull your weapon out, you have to assess the situation. You don't fire first and ask questions later. What was so threatening about this guy? He's black? He's in "her house". Ok, so draw your weapon and order him onto the floor. Start getting some answers.

Seems natural to put yourself in her shoes and feel sorry for her a little but I'll say this; some dipshit enters my house and kills one of my family members without pause, I'd want the death sentence. Imagine if this was your child, your father, your brother. It just seems to me there's no excusing her decision and/or mistake. You fuck up on this grand of a scale, you need to be held accountable. Just compounds the poor decisions because she's a trained Officer. I feel bad for all involved but she's guilty as hell of 2nd degree murder or minimum manslaughter. Doesn't meet the legal requirements for murder 1, that's just a fact.

 

[monkeyswrench]

Mom and Pops explained it this way as a kid, "Feeling bad after the fact means you should have made a better decision"

I have a friend up the street, ex-S.F., 3 or 4 tours in Afghanistan, currently a local cop. Brought up with a church background...graduated from Azusa Pacific before enlisting. He has both Bible verses, and military tattoos. I asked him, rather bluntly, how the religious him deals or dealt with what he's done. As an officer, he's been in one fatal shooting, I have no idea as to the tours of duty. His response almost floored me. He said he slept fine with the actions taken. He explained it to me like this: There was no doubt in his mind those individuals meant to kill him. They were armed, and were definitely intent on doing harm to him as well as his brothers.

From that standpoint, I could see the necessity. From the standpoint of an intruder in my home I am just arriving to, I think there would be some questions shouted as I backed out to cover. In a doorway you'd be a framed target...in your home, or in this case, the home you entered.

 

[Tank]

Mom and Pops explained it this way as a kid, "Feeling bad after the fact means you should have made a better decision"

I have a friend up the street, ex-S.F., 3 or 4 tours in Afghanistan, currently a local cop. Brought up with a church background...graduated from Azusa Pacific before enlisting. He has both Bible verses, and military tattoos. I asked him, rather bluntly, how the religious him deals or dealt with what he's done. As an officer, he's been in one fatal shooting, I have no idea as to the tours of duty. His response almost floored me. He said he slept fine with the actions taken. He explained it to me like this: There was no doubt in his mind those individuals meant to kill him. They were armed, and were definitely intent on doing harm to him as well as his brothers.

From that standpoint, I could see the necessity. From the standpoint of an intruder in my home I am just arriving to, I think there would be some questions shouted as I backed out to cover. In a doorway you'd be a framed target...in your home, or in this case, the home you entered.

Off topic here but I never understood the holy rollers that go into the military or enter into LE. "thou shalt not kill". I don't recall any caveat in the bible. If you are a devout religious person, I don't understand how you can deliberately place yourself in a position where you have a very high likely-hood of having to kill someone. Seems a bit counter productive and well, hypocritical. With that said, your neighbor sounds like a good dude. Not taking anything away from him. Just something I've thought about in the past.

 

[monkeyswrench]

Off topic here but I never understood the holy rollers that go into the military or enter into LE. "thou shalt not kill". I don't recall any caveat in the bible. If you are a devout religious person, I don't understand how you can deliberately place yourself in a position where you have a very high likely-hood of having to kill someone. Seems a bit counter productive and well, hypocritical. With that said, your neighbor sounds like a good dude. Not taking anything away from him. Just something I've thought about in the past.

Psalm 144: Blessed be my Lord my strength which teacheth my hands to war, and my fingers to fight.

I think the Bible, like all written things, is subject to the readers interpretation. That is why I asked him the question. It kind of confuses me as well. I am far from a Bible thumper, and far from a "Born Again", but have a shady past I prefer to leave be. There is a time or place for violence, I just hope it's not soon, nor at my doorstep. I would prefer not to look for it.

Yes, he's a good guy. A little intense, but honestly does the job for the good of his family and people in town. You don't make a great living out here in LE.

 

[Tank]

Psalm 144: Blessed be my Lord my strength which teacheth my hands to war, and my fingers to fight.

I think the Bible, like all written things, is subject to the readers interpretation. That is why I asked him the question. It kind of confuses me as well. I am far from a Bible thumper, and far from a "Born Again", but have a shady past I prefer to leave be. There is a time or place for violence, I just hope it's not soon, nor at my doorstep. I would prefer not to look for it.

Yes, he's a good guy. A little intense, but honestly does the job for the good of his family and people in town. You don't make a great living out here in LE.

Great response.

How do I double like a post?

 

[Yellowboat]

Off topic here but I never understood the holy rollers that go into the military or enter into LE. "thou shalt not kill". I don't recall any caveat in the bible. If you are a devout religious person, I don't understand how you can deliberately place yourself in a position where you have a very high likely-hood of having to kill someone. Seems a bit counter productive and well, hypocritical. With that said, your neighbor sounds like a good dude. Not taking anything away from him. Just something I've thought about in the past.

Bad translation. In every other romance langue and the Torah not kill it's murder.

 

[HCP3]

The text messages to/from Guyger that were revealed yesterday are pretty damning.

 

[Moneypit]

It was said yesterday that her testimony that "she intended to kill him" didn't help her any..Also, all this talk about "training"...How much of that training involved working in the jail and learning the attitude everyone she encounters is a criminal... The triggered response is all over the map, but I'm betting she learned it in the jail.... "My house, door ajar, big black man, getting up, must be a criminal"... Flash back to what she encountered everyday in the jail, delete my house and door ajar...And it plays out from there...Clearly, whether admitted it or not, her response was fear of the big black man getting up....We will never know if she would have shot a white man, but my money is on NO....
Ray

 

[HB2Havasu]

Yep, I'm just not seeing the intent at all. I've never seen where they leave it up to the jury to decide whether it's murder or manslaughter, or whatever they are calling it in Texas.

Glad I'm retired and I don't usually carry my gun.

Yeah this case is headed straight to the Appeals Court right after sentencing. She fucked up, but it's not murder! Manslaughter - YES!

 

[HCP3]

10 year sentence.

 

[Xring01]

Maybe we need to start a Poll... see how the RDP jury would have played out...
Manslaughter or Murder or Innocent....

Honestly, I am leaning more towards Murder....
She did walk into someones home and blasted that poor dude...

 

[monkeyswrench]

Enough to completely destroy her life, but as far as the victim's family, probably not enough. A few moments, a few decisions, and worlds change forever. No winners, no way there can be.

 

[SKIDMARC]

10 years!! WTF. She goes into someone else's home and kills them because she was to stupid to realize it and she is a cop?!? So she will be out in 6-7 year probably. That dude is dead forever. That's not justice IMO.

 

[Xtrmwakeboarder]

10 years!! WTF. She goes into someone else's home and kills them because she was to stupid to realize it and she is a cop?!? So she will be out in 6-7 year probably. That dude is dead forever. That's not justice IMO.

Probably less than 6-7 too....

 

[SKIDMARC]

Enough to completely destroy her life, but as far as the victim's family, probably not enough. A few moments, a few decisions, and worlds change forever. No winners, no way there can be.

No way is it enough to destroy her life!!!

She will be out in 6 years, no one will remember her, she will get another job, get married, have kids and live happily ever after. Unless of course some idiot with a gun walks into her home while she is chilling eating some ice cream and shoots her ass.

 

[HB2Havasu]

10 years!! WTF. She goes into someone else's home and kills them because she was to stupid to realize it and she is a cop?!? So she will be out in 6-7 year probably. That dude is dead forever. That's not justice IMO.

You do realize a large number of LEOs that are sent to prison never return right? I don't think being stupid and making a really bad mistake should come with a 10 year sentence, lol.

 

[SKIDMARC]

You do realize a large number of LEOs that are sent to prison never return right? I don't think being stupid and making a really bad mistake should come with a 10 year sentence, lol.

Really? So if someone walks into your home and kills you because they thought is was there's should not get a 10 year sentence or more? What if that was your son or daughter? Would you feel the same way?

 

[HST4ME]

She walked into a dudes home and shot him dead. The chair!

 

[havasujeeper]

I'm kinda shocked at some of the comments here. I'll leave it at that.

 

[monkeyswrench]

Really? So if someone walks into your home and kills you because they thought is was there's should not get a 10 year sentence or more? What if that was your son or daughter? Would you feel the same way?

I deffinitly agree with you here. Stupid mistakes that don't result in death, should not come with a 10 year sentence. If a person's stupidity causes someone to lose their life or freedom, 10 years to me is too light.

As for a sentence of 10 years ruining her life, it already has. She has no career, and no decent employer will hire with a murder conviction. As for marrying and having kids...she isn't centerfold material now, and I don't see time in lockup doing her well. This time right now should be the prime of her life, and she just got put on the bench. Do I think 10 years (or less) is a fair trade for taking a life? No, not at all. It wasn't tasked to me to pass judgment though. There are lots of verdicts and sentences I may not agree with, but this one is the current topic.

 

[SKIDMARC]

I deffinitly agree with you here. Stupid mistakes that don't result in death, should not come with a 10 year sentence. If a person's stupidity causes someone to lose their life or freedom, 10 years to me is too light.

As for a sentence of 10 years ruining her life, it already has. She has no career, and no decent employer will hire with a murder conviction. As for marrying and having kids...she isn't centerfold material now, and I don't see time in lockup doing her well. This time right now should be the prime of her life, and she just got put on the bench. Do I think 10 years (or less) is a fair trade for taking a life? No, not at all. It wasn't tasked to me to pass judgment though. There are lots of verdicts and sentences I may not agree with, but this one is the current topic.

Fair enough, I agree with most of what your saying.

 

[rrrr]

I've watched this progress for a year, and I have the red ass because of the sensationalism by the press and the distortion of the truth. This is a perfect example, today the victim's mother said:

"That 10 years in prison is 10 years for her reflection and for her to change her life but there is much more to be done by the city of Dallas," Jean's mother Allison said at a press conference Wednesday. "The corruption that we saw during this process must stop and it must stop for you. After now, I leave Dallas but you live in Dallas. and it must stop for everyone."

Corruption? What fucking corruption? She was arrested and charged with manslaughter, and three weeks later was indicted for murder. After almost a year of prejudicial press coverage, she was tried and convicted of murder.

So again I ask, what corruption? It's bullshit.

 

[BajaT]

Don't think victim's brother thought it was murder either...…..Based on 10 yrs that the same jury handed down, sounds like they struggled with murder vs manslaughter....

 

[LowRiver2]

Maybe we need to start a Poll... see how the RDP jury would have played out...
Manslaughter or Murder or Innocent....

Honestly, I am leaning more towards Murder....
She did walk into someones home and blasted that poor dude...

Doesn’t fit the definition of murder in Ca.
Look up “malice aforethought”

https://www.shouselaw.com/murder.html



Ca. Would have handed down same sentence but titled voluntary Manslaughter

More people would understand if they actually served on juries how law definitions are explained and broken down.
Exact reason we have lawyers, a necessary evil for all.

 

[Sleek-Jet]

IMHO... Justice was served.

 

[monkeyswrench]

I've watched this progress for a year, and I have the red ass because of the sensationalism by the press and the distortion of the truth. This is a perfect example, today the victim's mother said:

"That 10 years in prison is 10 years for her reflection and for her to change her life but there is much more to be done by the city of Dallas," Jean's mother Allison said at a press conference Wednesday. "The corruption that we saw during this process must stop and it must stop for you. After now, I leave Dallas but you live in Dallas. and it must stop for everyone."

Corruption? What fucking corruption? She was arrested and charged with manslaughter, and three weeks later was indicted for murder. After almost a year of prejudicial press coverage, she was tried and convicted of murder.

So again I ask, what corruption? It's bullshit.

I don't watch much news, only read stuff here and there. The news is eternally upsetting, either by propaganda now, or the depressing things they choose to focus on. For anyone to say the city was in any way to blame is just foolish and wrong. When this first happened, I waited to see if she was charged. She was. To me, that showed they were doing their due diligence, and following the law. The city government did their job. The officers involved did their's. At that point, it was handed to the DA, and they made their decision. The court and jurors heard the case, and judgment was made. That sounds like the way things are supposed to work. Regardless of outcome, I think everything "worked". If there were any corruption or coersion, it would have been if the DA brought charges based solely on political climate, and not fact. If that is the case, then the mother is right, there would be work to do.

 

[rrrr]

The DA is a Democrat that was elected last year. He has since announced his office will no longer prosecute charges for theft under $750, dismantled the cash bail system, eliminated property crimes like trespassing, and other idiot ideas that have been proven to accelerate lawlessness and crime.

Small business owners in South Dallas have effectively been told that people can now steal from them with no consequences. Now the shitbags are just picking up merchandise and walking out with it.

How would you like taking a hit for a couple of grand a week?

It's the Dallas version of California's Prop 47.

 

[pronstar]

The DA is a Democrat that was elected last year. He has since announced his office will no longer prosecute charges for theft under $750, dismantled the cash bail system, eliminated property crimes like trespassing, and other idiot ideas that have been proven to accelerate lawlessness and crime.

Small business owners in South Dallas have effectively been told that people can now steal from them with no consequences. Now the shitbags are just picking up merchandise and walking out with it.

How would you like taking a hit for a couple of grand a week?

It's the Dallas version of California's Prop 47.

Yeah I’m glad we got out of the city of Dallas...but we’re still in Dallas County [emoji107]


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[Havasu blue label]

Cops are always correct and I will leave it alone

 

[Socalx09]

The one brother’s speech was hard to watch. I don’t think I could do what he did, but he has faith and strongly believes in it.

 

[Yellowboat]

The DA is a Democrat that was elected last year. He has since announced his office will no longer prosecute charges for theft under $750, dismantled the cash bail system, eliminated property crimes like trespassing, and other idiot ideas that have been proven to accelerate lawlessness and crime.

Small business owners in South Dallas have effectively been told that people can now steal from them with no consequences. Now the shitbags are just picking up merchandise and walking out with it.

How would you like taking a hit for a couple of grand a week?

It's the Dallas version of California's Prop 47.

It's one of things that gave me real pause about moving to dfw for work.

I am super afraid it will go full liberal soon

 

[monkeyswrench]

The one brother’s speech was hard to watch. I don’t think I could do what he did, but he has faith and strongly believes in it.

Faith is a pretty amazing thing. Be it in God, family or individuals, it can drive a person to do things or act in certain ways. It is not always good, as we see with religious extremists, but sometimes it is. I don't think I have the faith, nor the strength, to forgive someone like that. Then again, very few are ever in the position to find out. I will say, the brother is much stronger person than I, and truly believes what he says.

 

[Go-Fly]

10 years is not enough. Change the rolls word for word, life.

 

[pronstar]

It's one of things that gave me real pause about moving to dfw for work.

I am super afraid it will go full liberal soon

Population centers be like that, unfortunately.


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[Yellowboat]

Population centers be like that, unfortunately.


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It is really sad. I can't help but think the influx of people escaping liberal hell holes is not helping. I know I lean, further right them most of my coworkers. Which is sad as most of them are native Texans. Then again, I would be a libertarian if I was not such a realist. I know people can not be trusted to do the right thing.

 

[Moneypit]

Was she free on bail awaiting trial?? Either way, 10 years, possibly out in 5, will take a huge toll on her remaining life... Is it fair?? Hell, I don't know, but as I said before her training that everyone she encounters is a criminal, (jail duty purposeful training), certainly played a role here...
The brothers forgiveness says a great deal about that young mans character. His faith has allowed him to move on, something she will never be able to do..Everyday for the rest of her life she will re-live that night. From Cop, to Con, in the blink of an eye...
How will she react to prison? Will she look into ways to help others less fortunate than her?? Or will she cop an attitude that she was wronged?? Only time will tell...She has plenty of that....
Ray

 

[rrrr]

She'll almost assured be in Ad Seg. She was a cop, murdered a black man, and has no criminal past. If they put her in general population it's almost certain she would be attacked at every turn.

 

[Xtrmwakeboarder]

So it looks like the guy’s neighbor, and key witness, was just shot dead... weird.

 

[monkeyswrench]

So it looks like the guy’s neighbor, and key witness, was just shot dead... weird.

Not just kinda shot dead, news said found d.o.a. with something like 8 wounds

Seems a bit too coincidental, and I'm not a big believer in coincidence.

 

[Moneypit]

So it looks like the guy’s neighbor, and key witness, was just shot dead... weird.

Reported he was a witness against her in a PREVIOUS case, not the Murder deal of late...He had nothing to do with the murder case...But, somebody wanted that guy really dead. It wasn't a faked suicide, so the Clintons are in the clear...
Ray
PS He lived across the hall from her....

 

[sirbob]

Reported he was a witness against her in a PREVIOUS case, not the Murder deal of late...He had nothing to do with the murder case...But, somebody wanted that guy really dead. It wasn't a faked suicide, so the Clintons are in the clear...
Ray
PS He lived across the hall from her....

I guess this news article is wrong then?

I remember thinking - who shows up to be a key witness in a murder trial wearing a Pokémon shirt.

 

[Bobby V]

Reported he was a witness against her in a PREVIOUS case, not the Murder deal of late...He had nothing to do with the murder case...But, somebody wanted that guy really dead. It wasn't a faked suicide, so the Clintons are in the clear...
Ray
PS He lived across the hall from her....

I guess this news article is wrong then.
https://www.yahoo.com/gma/botham-je...ger-trial-011942164--abc-news-topstories.html

 

[Xtrmwakeboarder]

Reported he was a witness against her in a PREVIOUS case, not the Murder deal of late...He had nothing to do with the murder case...But, somebody wanted that guy really dead. It wasn't a faked suicide, so the Clintons are in the clear...
Ray
PS He lived across the hall from her....

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.ny...ham-jean-murder-witness-fatally-shot.amp.html

 

[pronstar]

It is really sad. I can't help but think the influx of people escaping liberal hell holes is not helping. I know I lean, further right them most of my coworkers. Which is sad as most of them are native Texans. Then again, I would be a libertarian if I was not such a realist. I know people can not be trusted to do the right thing.

In our last election, exit polls showed transplants voted more conservatively than native Texans.

And some articles indicate conservative California immigrants are outnumbering liberals...


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