WELCOME TO RIVER DAVES PLACE

Hard Rock Hotel Collapse

HNL2LHC

What is right and what is wrong these days!
Joined
Jun 25, 2018
Messages
13,829
Reaction score
24,791
Wow, that is crazy damage. It will be interesting to see what the cause was.
 

SoCalDave

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jul 1, 2011
Messages
12,574
Reaction score
28,119
That's crazy, condolences to all involved.
 

2Driver

Well-Known Member
Joined
Dec 21, 2007
Messages
16,684
Reaction score
29,944
Video is horrible, seeing the people fleeing and getting hit.
 

riverroyal

Well-Known Member
Joined
Nov 4, 2007
Messages
13,895
Reaction score
18,373
How does it happen... easy. The shoring gets pulled on lower floors to soon.
They pull shores out soon after the concrete is poured with 're-shores" basically legs that have adjustment .
These shore are engineered for the placement. A typical project will remove the reshore once the floors are 3 stories above.
This is where it gets sketchy. These floors are post tension concrete. The cables get tightened. IF the shore are removed before the floors above get enough cure time this can happen.
If the shores are placed incorrect or removed this can happen. IF the floors above are over loaded with material this can happen.
If the schedule is aggressive this can happen. Meaning the floors below the top need shores removed for framing etc

This hits VERY close to home right now.
 

rickym20

Well-Known Member
Joined
Mar 9, 2014
Messages
877
Reaction score
1,534
Damn, if it comes out that only 1 fatality from that would be a miracle. I know one is too many but seeing that video would think more casualties. Hopefully it stays as 1 and the missing are found alive.
 

riverroyal

Well-Known Member
Joined
Nov 4, 2007
Messages
13,895
Reaction score
18,373
Damn, if it comes out that only 1 fatality from that would be a miracle. I know one is too many but seeing that video would think more casualties. Hopefully it stays as 1 and the missing are found alive.
Saturday. They got lucky.
There are more and more builds like this. Poured in place means more floors at a lower elevation and that means its less expensive to build
The floor to ceiling measurement is less without I-beams
 

Nordie

Well-Known Member
Joined
Sep 5, 2009
Messages
7,465
Reaction score
10,908
Saturday. They got lucky.
There are more and more builds like this. Poured in place means more floors at a lower elevation and that means its less expensive to build
The floor to ceiling measurement is less without I-beams
Doesn't appear to be a post tension deck, looks like a structural building.
 

flyingcolors

Well-Known Member
Joined
Apr 16, 2010
Messages
259
Reaction score
84
something similar happened in downtown LA in 86 or 87. 9 stories ,4 or 5 below ground and 4 or 5 above ground, to much steel staged on the structure, not enough bolting and welding completed. crane operator and 2 ironworkers died
 

stephenkatsea

Well-Known Member
Joined
Apr 30, 2008
Messages
8,008
Reaction score
11,577
I worked in the greater New Orleans area for a number of years. Yes, things like this happen far too often. The shipyard mishaps are scary as hell. Injuries are numerous, sometimes including the superintendents.
 

rrrr

Well-Known Member
Joined
Dec 19, 2007
Messages
14,985
Reaction score
32,565
How does it happen... easy. The shoring gets pulled on lower floors to soon.
They pull shores out soon after the concrete is poured with 're-shores" basically legs that have adjustment .
These shore are engineered for the placement. A typical project will remove the reshore once the floors are 3 stories above.
This is where it gets sketchy. These floors are post tension concrete. The cables get tightened. IF the shore are removed before the floors above get enough cure time this can happen.
If the shores are placed incorrect or removed this can happen. IF the floors above are over loaded with material this can happen.
If the schedule is aggressive this can happen. Meaning the floors below the top need shores removed for framing etc

This hits VERY close to home right now.

I didn't see any reshoring on the upper floors, and the collapse started several floors below the highest one.
 

Nordie

Well-Known Member
Joined
Sep 5, 2009
Messages
7,465
Reaction score
10,908
I still cannot believe those tower cranes are still standing. Something very bizarre happened. Maybe something was not completely bolted up, or a weld failed, or just a bad design.
 

Big B Hova

HOSS
Joined
Nov 7, 2014
Messages
5,359
Reaction score
11,249
I still cannot believe those tower cranes are still standing. Something very bizarre happened. Maybe something was not completely bolted up, or a weld failed, or just a bad design.

Or schedule and lack of construction knowledge had them remove post shores too soon
 

Nordie

Well-Known Member
Joined
Sep 5, 2009
Messages
7,465
Reaction score
10,908
Or schedule and lack of construction knowledge had them remove post shores too soon

Structural buildings I don't think they use pole shores on. I've never seen them used even during concrete pours. Something definitely went wrong though.
 

rmarion

Stop The Steal
Joined
Mar 14, 2008
Messages
11,872
Reaction score
27,899
the attached available video shows the building already under collapse...

unbelievable that a tragic construction failure can happen during our current times..


RIP to all ....
 

rmarion

Stop The Steal
Joined
Mar 14, 2008
Messages
11,872
Reaction score
27,899
EGr_twQW4AAqM5x.jpg


I'm no structural expert..just a stupid Roofer.... this picture tells the whole story.... both cranes are intact and still standing, while one side of the building structure surrounding both cranes have failed... i wonder what type of new technology was designed exclusively on this project... high rises have been built surrounding cranes for a LONG time!!!
 

Big B Hova

HOSS
Joined
Nov 7, 2014
Messages
5,359
Reaction score
11,249
Structural buildings I don't think they use pole shores on. I've never seen them used even during concrete pours. Something definitely went wrong though.
Post tension slabs require post shores
 

DirtyWhiteDog

Well-Known Member
Joined
Feb 16, 2013
Messages
980
Reaction score
1,029
Don't see any cables in the slabs. Almost looks like excessive cantilever, to keep the face of building free of any structural members. Maybe over loaded?
Hopefully the truth will not be buried.
RIP to the fallen. And quick recovery to the stricken.
 

Racer56

Jukebox Hero
Joined
Aug 12, 2014
Messages
2,880
Reaction score
5,676
It looks like a hybrid building to me. Conventional concrete structure for the lower parking levels and structural steel building above with post tension concrete deck's.
 

rrrr

Well-Known Member
Joined
Dec 19, 2007
Messages
14,985
Reaction score
32,565
Don't see any cables in the slabs. Almost looks like excessive cantilever, to keep the face of building free of any structural members. Maybe over loaded?
Hopefully the truth will not be buried.
RIP to the fallen. And quick recovery to the stricken.

I noticed that big cantilever. When the video showing the collapse starts, the cantilevered section of a lower floors or floors had already started to fail, then the upper floors followed.

Installation of framing and drywall had begun on those lower floors. Note that the building's man and material lift was located between the tower cranes, and it fell to the street.

This makes me wonder if large quantities of drywall had been unloaded off of the lift, moved a few feet, and left on the cantilevered section, overloading it and initiating the failure.

That's a very plausible scenario.

Edit: From what I can tell the collapse did occur very close to the lift.
 
Last edited:

rmarion

Stop The Steal
Joined
Mar 14, 2008
Messages
11,872
Reaction score
27,899
SV 6.jpg


the building collapse from the right side of the middle column... just right side of the post tensions..
 

Carlson-jet

Not Giving A Fuck Is An Art
Joined
Dec 19, 2007
Messages
7,785
Reaction score
7,947
I need a closeup of where the steel was manufactured before passing judgement.
RIP to the life lost. It shouldn't have happened.
 

Nordie

Well-Known Member
Joined
Sep 5, 2009
Messages
7,465
Reaction score
10,908
It looks like a hybrid building to me. Conventional concrete structure for the lower parking levels and structural steel building above with post tension concrete deck's.

You're right, there is a transfer slab right there, The Cosmopolitan Las Vegas was built in this same fashion. The CIP portion of the building appears to have faired very well compared to the the structural steel part.
20191013_002920.jpg
 

rmarion

Stop The Steal
Joined
Mar 14, 2008
Messages
11,872
Reaction score
27,899
the live posted video shows a worker running for his life, 6 floors from the top level.... I hope he made it out... RIP everyone
 

Go-Fly

Where Are My Shoes?
Joined
Mar 2, 2010
Messages
5,610
Reaction score
8,793
Lets see how cheap, fast and weak we can make it and still have it stand on its own. The investigation will circle back to this, guarantee.
 

rickym20

Well-Known Member
Joined
Mar 9, 2014
Messages
877
Reaction score
1,534
76D30EBE-58FD-4E2F-B0F8-6F905DB2DFCD.jpeg
Hard to tell but those cantilever sections on the structural steel don’t look well designed. Typically the beams cantilevered past the exterior column lines will have a beam in line with it going inside the building. Looking at this one it seems they have them stoping at the header which would put a lot of twisting motion on the I-beam if not braced correctly. Even after concrete cures that design if I’m seeing it right looks sketchy. Not sure if a contributing factor.
It’s just crazy to me something can fail that badly.
76D30EBE-58FD-4E2F-B0F8-6F905DB2DFCD.jpeg
 
Last edited:

rmarion

Stop The Steal
Joined
Mar 14, 2008
Messages
11,872
Reaction score
27,899
image 27 (google view) is the white facade structure. Same image shows the shoring forms (sorry I don't know wtf proper terms) seams to be intact and supporting the damage..
 

HNL2LHC

What is right and what is wrong these days!
Joined
Jun 25, 2018
Messages
13,829
Reaction score
24,791
So sad to see any and all the damage. I find interesting to see the aftermath. I assume that the standing garage structure on the bottom is the result of current IBC hurricane requirements. We have a current trend happening in the islands to save money on new buildings and meet the code. I look forward to hearing what then cause of the accident was.
 

riverroyal

Well-Known Member
Joined
Nov 4, 2007
Messages
13,895
Reaction score
18,373
It looks like the upper 4 floors are structural steel while the lowers are poured in place? Hard to tell on my cell.
 

Nordie

Well-Known Member
Joined
Sep 5, 2009
Messages
7,465
Reaction score
10,908
20191013_085933.jpg
It looks like the upper 4 floors are structural steel while the lowers are poured in place? Hard to tell on my cell.
Red line shows Cast in Place to structual. That thick slab is a transfer slab, almost like a footing but up in the air.
 

Nordie

Well-Known Member
Joined
Sep 5, 2009
Messages
7,465
Reaction score
10,908
I don't know shit about high rise construction. My question is after the dust settles can they rebuild this from the transfer slab on up, if the below structure is sound or do they demolish and start over?

Good question, there will be engineers involved, x-rays will be happening, and there may be a chance where they almost rebuild the building (like after an airplane crash) to see what happened. It's a toss up at this point and time. I would lean a little more towards this building is coming down.
 

gqchris

Well-Known Member
Joined
Mar 24, 2008
Messages
8,301
Reaction score
13,093
Im not an expert either, but looking at the pictures reminds me of TJ or Baja. Sucks for all involved.
 

Racer56

Jukebox Hero
Joined
Aug 12, 2014
Messages
2,880
Reaction score
5,676
I would think that the building would be torn down to the structural concrete floors of the building and then rebuilt from there.
 

BajaMike

Well-Known Member
Joined
Sep 20, 2007
Messages
6,322
Reaction score
3,073
What a cluster fuck. It does kinda look like third world construction. Some building inspectors and engineers “are going to have some splainin to do”.

Good info from you guys who know something about this stuff!
 

Dan Lorenze

Well-Known Member
Joined
Oct 3, 2007
Messages
10,536
Reaction score
12,598
I still cannot believe those tower cranes are still standing. Something very bizarre happened. Maybe something was not completely bolted up, or a weld failed, or just a bad design.

Can you imagine being in one of those tower cranes when this was going on? Holy shit!
 

JDKRXW

Well-Known Member
Joined
Apr 24, 2008
Messages
2,790
Reaction score
3,587
I can't believe those cranes remained standing.....especially the one furthest from the camera in Nordie's picture above.
A literal shit ton of concrete flooring slammed into the side of it even though it was attached to the building frame.
 
Top