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WhatExit?

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[OPINION] It’s the end of California as we know it
October 30, 2019 /

merlin_163491096_efbee506-4877-4313-a90c-56bc9986951c-superJumbo-1024x683.jpg

Battling a grass fire in Knightsen, Calif., on Sunday.

The fires and the blackouts are connected to a larger problem in this state: a failure to live sustainably

By Farhad Manjoo

I have lived nearly all my life in California, and my love for this place and its people runs deep and true. There have been many times in the past few years when I’ve called myself a California nationalist: Sure, America seemed to be going crazy, but at least I lived in the Golden State, where things were still pretty chill.

But lately my affinity for my home state has soured. Maybe it’s the smoke and the blackouts, but a very un-Californian nihilism has been creeping into my thinking. I’m starting to suspect we’re over. It’s the end of California as we know it. I don’t feel fine.

It isn’t just the fires — although, my God, the fires. Is this what life in America’s most populous, most prosperous state is going to be like from now on? Every year, hundreds of thousands evacuating, millions losing power, hundreds losing property and lives? Last year, the air near where I live in Northern California — within driving distance of some of the largest and most powerful and advanced corporations in the history of the world — was more hazardous than the air in Beijing and New Delhi. There’s a good chance that will happen again this month, and that it will keep happening every year from now on. Is this really the best America can do?

Probably, because it’s only going to get worse. The fires and the blackouts aren’t like the earthquakes, a natural threat we’ve all chosen to ignore. They are more like California’s other problems, like housing affordability and homelessness and traffic — human-made catastrophes we’ve all chosen to ignore, connected to the larger dysfunction at the heart of our state’s rot: a failure to live sustainably.
 

Tank

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Here's another one just put out today:

Analysis: California is becoming unlivable

Right now, wildfires are scorching tens of thousands of acres in California, choking the air with smoke, spurring widespread prophylactic blackouts, and forcing the evacuation of hundreds of thousands of people. Right now, roughly 130,000 Californians are homeless, and millions more are shelling out far more in rent than they can afford, commuting into expensive cities from faraway suburbs and towns, or doubling up in houses and apartments.

Wildfires and lack of affordable housing—these are two of the most visible and urgent crises facing California, raising the question of whether the country’s dreamiest, most optimistic state is fast becoming unlivable. Climate change is turning it into a tinderbox; the soaring cost of living is forcing even wealthy families into financial precarity. And, in some ways, the two crises are one: The housing crunch in urban centers has pushed construction to cheaper, more peripheral areas, where wildfire risk is greater.....

Read more:

http://www.msn.com/en-us/money/real...ing-unlivable/ar-AAJBbJF?li=BBnb7Kz&ocid=iehp


Chicken little the sky is falling comes to mind. For fucks sakes the media likes to dramatize everything. I guess tornado alley and the east coast with the hurricanes or Texas and the south's flooding, New York and the upper states with blizzards and heat waves are forgotten while Ca is in fire season. LOL. So stupid. We had a great wet winter. It means we have a HUGE amount of dry brush. Winds, dry air, boom. Fire. It happens.
 

Mandelon

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Housing is only unaffordable if you don't already have a place. I afford mine just fine. Granted, I couldn't buy it again today. But I don't need to buy it again today... I already have it.

Is it tough to get started? Hell yes. But once you get on the real estate ladder, you just keep climbing up.
 

Bobby V

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Housing is only unaffordable if you don't already have a place. I afford mine just fine. Granted, I couldn't buy it again today. But I don't need to buy it again today... I already have it.

Is it tough to get started? Hell yes. But once you get on the real estate ladder, you just keep climbing up.
X2. ;)
 

racetrash

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The only good thing about CA is the earthquakes. Last one we had, all my shit was still in my yard, unlike a tornado, still we are gone to AZ.
 

welldigger00

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I’m born and raised Californian. Still live here, and can’t leave. I’ll tell you this much: The only thing wrong with California is the Californians. Other than that, I love it here.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
 

SOCALCRICKETT

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Life is a pendulum, it will swing one way and eventually swing back. Right now with the mass exodus out of california housing costs in other surroundind states are skyrocketing. Eventually the cost to purchase a home will level out, california homes will drop due to demand and surrounding states will continue to rise.

Sent from my SM-G930P using Tapatalk
 

HB2Havasu

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As typical people panic over bullshit stuff. California has always had forest fires since I can remember especially this time of year when the winds kick up. That’s not going to change. Can we reduce the reasons they start? Absolutely!!!

Here’s a few suggestions:
1. Start requiring all new power lines thru rural and forest areas be placed underground.
2. Stop letting Hobos live in wooded areas where camp fires can set off a forest fire.
3. Restart forest management tools to reduce brush fires previously used until the socialists stopped the funding to pay for Illegal Aliens.

It’s not rocket science!
 

RCDave

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And
*exorbitant taxation
*strangling government regulation
*collusion between government and labor unions
*insane government pensions

What else? I'm sure I'm leaving out a list of other reasons the state is so f'd up
 

Cdog

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Housing is only unaffordable if you don't already have a place. I afford mine just fine. Granted, I couldn't buy it again today. But I don't need to buy it again today... I already have it.

Is it tough to get started? Hell yes. But once you get on the real estate ladder, you just keep climbing up.


But where will your kids live? And their kids/your grandchildren? Are you prepared to buy them a home? Is that sustainable for families?
 

Carlson-jet

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California is a big state. Many of the issues reside in a smaller percentage of the land mass. I do hope it survives. Having grown up vacationing there and eventually living for 11 years from my late teens to late twenties it is a place I don't call home but yearn to enjoy it's beauty. I'm thankful for those experiences. The 70's were the pinnacle imo. I enjoyed it from 85'-96'. The expression "you can't squeeze blood from a turnip" is why I left. There really is no State in the U.S. that has what California has. Overpopulation can destroy the best of places. This will happen to the entire Nation at some point. Nobody here will live long enough to see the overpopulation of the United States. The Federal Government has NO plan for sustainability other than "More". :(
 

Wizard29

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1. Start requiring all new power lines thru rural and forest areas be placed underground.

I agree with all of your points except this one. The costs of doing this would be astronomical. Will you be willing to pay a $1,000 electric bill every month?
 

RCDave

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In the l
I agree with all of your points except this one. The costs of doing this would be astronomical. Will you be willing to pay a $1,000 electric bill every month?
In the long run, it would be substantially cheaper then BK every few years and burning down entire cities and killing people. ....
 

Wizard29

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In the l

In the long run, it would be substantially cheaper then BK every few years and burning down entire cities and killing people. ....

Burning down "entire cities"? When was the last time SCE, PGE or DWP went BK? I know this is River Dave's Place, but let's not be too dramatic.

So you'd be okay with a $1,000 (at a minimum) electric bill to help cover the costs of undergrounding? Do you know what is involved with UG lines? That is such a silly suggestion that is typically thrown out there by people who know exactly zero about it.

Covered conductor would be a better option, but that gets costly too.
 

RCDave

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Burning down "entire cities"? When was the last time SCE, PGE or DWP went BK? I know this is River Dave's Place, but let's not be too dramatic.

So you'd be okay with a $1,000 (at a minimum) electric bill to help cover the costs of undergrounding? Do you know what is involved with UG lines? That is such a silly suggestion that is typically thrown out there by people who know exactly zero about it.

Covered conductor would be a better option, but that gets costly too.

Lol. PG&E. bankrupt how many times now? How many cities burnt to a crisp. How many people dead and houses torched to dirt.

Indefensible dude....
 

RCDave

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Ferndale, camp, woolsey, paradise, kincade..

Tip of the iceburg
 
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TCHB

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You can say the same for many other western states lately. :([/QUOTE
Burning down "entire cities"? When was the last time SCE, PGE or DWP went BK? I know this is River Dave's Place, but let's not be too dramatic.

So you'd be okay with a $1,000 (at a minimum) electric bill to help cover the costs of undergrounding? Do you know what is involved with UG lines? That is such a silly suggestion that is typically thrown out there by people who know exactly zero about it.

Covered conductor would be a better option, but that gets costly too.

Yes try putting 500Kv underground. Not going to happen. We had 220Kv at the power plant underground for a about 100 yards. We had a complete cooling system for the lines to the switch yard.
Can you imagine in Havasu if they wanted to underground. People would riot when they found out the cost to E Bills.
 

Mandelon

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But where will your kids live? And their kids/your grandchildren? Are you prepared to buy them a home? Is that sustainable for families?

Valid point. And we are closing in on that issue with every passing month. When 10% down for an entry level home is a $50,000 chunk of dough it isn't going to be easy for them. I wonder if the way the europeans do it will become more common. The "family compound" may be arriving. With California allowing Accessory Dwelling Units one can build a 1200 square foot house in the back yard. I can see multiple generations living on the same property.

Or we would need to help them with the down payment.... which is an option when we choose to downsize out of this house.
 

C-2

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Overpopulation can destroy the best of places. This will happen to the entire Nation at some point. Nobody here will live long enough to see the overpopulation of the United States. The Federal Government has NO plan for sustainability other than "More". :(

This is what I believe too.

Fleeing to a less desirable location is not the answer. In the future, you will be surrounded by the same idiots, except at a location you chose as a compromise.

In the meantime, we do just fine here on a public servant's salary. Maybe I'm doing something wrong, shouldn't my life be FUBAR as described by the daily hyperbole here, lol.

(not directed at you CJ)
 

Wizard29

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Lol. PG&E. bankrupt how many times now? How many cities burnt to a crisp. How many people dead and houses torched to dirt.

Indefensible dude....

From what I can find, PGE has now filed BK twice. In 115 years of being in business. The last time they did it was 2001. SCE never has in over 125 years of being in business. Hardly "every few years" as you stated.

How many cities have been "burnt to a crisp"? That's a good question. Got an answer?

How many people dead? Not as many as you make it sound. How many people die on roads every year? Does that mean we should blame Cal Trans?

My point is don't be dramatic. Yes, shit happens, but it's not as bad as all that. Come on now.

The irony is that you are reading this and replying on a phone or computer that is powered by electrons likely provided to you by PGE or SCE. If you hate the utilities so much, feel free to disconnect. Vote with your feet and make a statement.
 

C-2

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V With California allowing Accessory Dwelling Units one can build a 1200 square foot house in the back yard. I can see multiple generations living on the same property.

The number of people adding ADU's is staggering and I too have been thinking a lot about it. The "crisis" may very well be a golden opportunity to build non-traditional, or otherwise cost prohibitive structures on your land.
 

RodnJen

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But where will your kids live? And their kids/your grandchildren? Are you prepared to buy them a home? Is that sustainable for families?

Yes, I am. And yes it’s sustainable because I didn’t bug out and blow money on stuff that feeds my ego. I dug in, provided well, and have plenty of options going forward.
 

RCDave

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From what I can find, PGE has now filed BK twice. In 115 years of being in business. The last time they did it was 2001. SCE never has in over 125 years of being in business. Hardly "every few years" as you stated.

How many cities have been "burnt to a crisp"? That's a good question. Got an answer?

How many people dead? Not as many as you make it sound. How many people die on roads every year? Does that mean we should blame Cal Trans?

My point is don't be dramatic. Yes, shit happens, but it's not as bad as all that. Come on now.

The irony is that you are reading this and replying on a phone or computer that is powered by electrons likely provided to you by PGE or SCE. If you hate the utilities so much, feel free to disconnect. Vote with your feet and make a statement.
From what I can find, PGE has now filed BK twice. In 115 years of being in business. The last time they did it was 2001. SCE never has in over 125 years of being in business. Hardly "every few years" as you stated.

How many cities have been "burnt to a crisp"? That's a good question. Got an answer?

How many people dead? Not as many as you make it sound. How many people die on roads every year? Does that mean we should blame Cal Trans?

My point is don't be dramatic. Yes, shit happens, but it's not as bad as all that. Come on now.

The irony is that you are reading this and replying on a phone or computer that is powered by electrons likely provided to you by PGE or SCE. If you hate the utilities so much, feel free to disconnect. Vote with your feet and make a statement.

Any other corporation would be done given the murderous track record. Except those few union based companies consistently bailed out by government and the tax payer. . Typical government union monopolistic collusion.

Let's not bring up Hinkely either and the millions of contaminated gallonsof water dumped into the environment.

Ironic my cell phone is currently being powered by a Yamaha gasoline powered genset....because the monopolistic government supported sham is allowed to continue to exist.
 
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C-2

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Yes, I am. And yes it’s sustainable because I didn’t bug out and blow money on stuff that feeds my ego. I dug in, provided well, and have plenty of options going forward.

I'm sure somebody will come along and tell you that you're wrong, lol.
 

DC-88

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California is a big state. Many of the issues reside in a smaller percentage of the land mass. Overpopulation can destroy the best of places. This will happen to the entire Nation at some point. Nobody here will live long enough to see the overpopulation of the United States. The Federal Government has NO plan for sustainability other than "More". :(
Well said, and I'd add that the chamber of commerce combined with the internet can f- up a good small town as well.....2 parents, 2 or 3 kids, tight NZ like borders is mho for "sustainability". The long term alternatives without a good plague are bleak :eek:
 

Cdog

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I'm sure somebody will come along and tell you that you're wrong, lol.


It’s not that he’s wrong, he’s a small percentage of the population in CA.
90% of Californians can’t claim the same.
 
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brgrcru

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Burning down "entire cities"? When was the last time SCE, PGE or DWP went BK? I know this is River Dave's Place, but let's not be too dramatic.

So you'd be okay with a $1,000 (at a minimum) electric bill to help cover the costs of undergrounding? Do you know what is involved with UG lines? That is such a silly suggestion that is typically thrown out there by people who know exactly zero about it.

Covered conductor would be a better option, but that gets costly too.

I pay a $1000 now .
Tell my wife to turn off the a/c . :mad:
 

Carlson-jet

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I'm not super hip on distribution of Gw of electricity, so the options as they stand is burn people to death or allow indiscriminate growth. I'm not seeing high-lines being the problem but power being run/hung from common utility poles being the issue?
People wanting to get away from the dregs of society now has a higher cost, maybe your life which sadly was the initial goal to save it and raise a family away from societies ills.
Think of me however you like. I'm not in denial about what's really going on.
 

Wizard29

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Ironic my cell phone is currently being powered by a Yamaha gasoline powered genset....

Okay, I'll be honest...I actually chuckled a little when I read this. Was not expecting that one. Seriously, that sucks your power is off though and it's certainly not an ideal situation. I think PGE may be taking the shutoffs a little too far, but then again, the utilities are using the only real viable option left to protect themselves. The state has pushed them into that position. Better than burning cities to a crisp and killing people though, I guess?

The real question though is when the power comes back on, will you turn the generator off and reconnect?
 

Carlson-jet

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I guess?

The real question though is when the power comes back on, will you turn the generator off and reconnect?
It's the law. Disconnect from all of your utilities including sewer/water and see how long before your house is condemned.
This whole argument is moot. The surfs have Zero control over any utility or law enacted to make them pay for a monopoly.
 

rrrr

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I agree with all of your points except this one. The costs of doing this would be astronomical. Will you be willing to pay a $1,000 electric bill every month?

There's a couple more small problems with running kilovolt capacity primary transmission lines underground.

One is heat. Conductors in free air can carry almost 50% more current than underground conductors in conduit. This means underground conductors carrying the same amount of current as free air conductors would have to be much larger or consist of additional parallel sets. The cost would be many multiples of free air transmission. Who's gonna pay for that? The end users like you.

Another is earthquakes. Energized underground conductors carrying kilovolt potential energy across fault zones would violently self destruct during an earthquake. The conduits and the conductors, in many cases encased in concrete to meet safety requirements, would be destroyed, and rebuilding them would take many weeks.

There are other problems that are likely insurmountable, like acquiring right-of-ways for what would be huge excavations necessary for building kilovolt potential underground transmission lines.
 

02HoWaRd26

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Burning down "entire cities"? When was the last time SCE, PGE or DWP went BK? I know this is River Dave's Place, but let's not be too dramatic.

So you'd be okay with a $1,000 (at a minimum) electric bill to help cover the costs of undergrounding? Do you know what is involved with UG lines? That is such a silly suggestion that is typically thrown out there by people who know exactly zero about it.

Covered conductor would be a better option, but that gets costly too.
I don’t think the suggestion was to upgrade or change from power lines to underground, but to start making where the new lines ran through densely forested areas be underground. I cannot imagine, however i am totally ignorant on the subject, that those prices would cause such an added expense that it’d so drastically change the utility cost in the state.
 

stokerwhore

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seems to me everyone forget that so cal is and has always been A FUCKIN DESERT. tens of thousands of housing units being built at a time and no new sources of water or infrastructure. Then add to that criminals in charge that rob the state blind, make inane laws and then BLAME IT ON CLIMATE CHANGE. FUCK LIBERALS.
Ok. I feel better now. carry on.
 

Sleek-Jet

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Any other corporation would be done given the murderous track record. Except those few union based companies consistently bailed out by government and the tax payer. . Typical government union monopolistic collusion.

Let's not bring up Hinkely either and the millions of contaminated gallonsof water dumped into the environment.

Ironic my cell phone is currently being powered by a Yamaha gasoline powered genset....because the monopolistic government supported sham is allowed to continue to exist.

Funny thing about people these days, they want their power to work all the time.

That cost money.

How's about we unbridle utilities from arbitrary renewable requirements and let markets determine what works and what doesn't. Then utilities can spend money and have rate structures that allow for adequate maintenance and reliability.

That worked for a century or so...
 

YumaRivernaut

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There's a couple more small problems with running kilovolt capacity primary transmission lines underground.

One is heat. Conductors in free air can carry almost 50% more current than underground conductors in conduit. This means underground conductors carrying the same amount of current as free air conductors would have to be much larger or consist of additional parallel sets. The cost would be many multiples of free air transmission. Who's gonna pay for that? The end users like you.

Another is earthquakes. Energized underground conductors carrying kilovolt potential energy across fault zones would violently self destruct during an earthquake. The conduits and the conductors, in many cases encased in concrete to meet safety requirements, would be destroyed, and rebuilding them would take many weeks.

There are other problems that are likely insurmountable, like acquiring right-of-ways for what would be huge excavations necessary for building kilovolt potential underground transmission lines.
Didn't Tesla (the man, not the company that desecrates his name) solve these problems at the beginning of the 20th century? I dunno, just saying.
Nevermind.
 

Sleek-Jet

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Didn't Tesla (the man, not the company that desecrates his name) solve these problems at the beginning of the 20th century? I dunno, just saying.
Nevermind.

Yeah. No.

Interestingly it was Tesla and Westinghouse that proved AC electricity was viable. This allowed for transmission of electricity greater distances than DC (Edison) was capable of.
 

Xring01

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Quick questions.

Who makes the policys that the Investor Owned Utilitys are bound to? Meaning PGE, SCE SDGE.... its called FERC and PUC.... now google, who is in charge of those agency’s and who appointed them.

Next question. Who dictates the budget, and where $$$ is spent at the IOUs? See the above answer.

Think about it this way.
You have a fixed dollar annual budget, you know what needs to be done, but your not allowed to because the government is forcing you to spend billions on renewable energy, electric car chargers, smart meters, smart grids, etc. etc etc...and you go into debt keeping them happy. But you may have not had the resources to do basic maintenance you wanted to do.

Then massive fires break out, and you get sued for everything... Piling on more debt, with no way to recoup that money, with more regulations coming, and more debt.

Everyone complains about the utility’s, but none of you are even close to the source of the problem..

PUC, is headed by an appointee from the Gov of Ca. Who pushs Electrical renewable goals at the expense of reliability and safety... why do both of them still have a job? This is not a Utility problem. Its government regulations on those Utilitys that created this.
 
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