Friend of mine almost died a week ago.. RZR PSA

[rivrrts429]

I’m a little surprised at the amount of negativity in this thread. If you didn’t know any better you would think 8 out of 10 of these machines are yard sales as soon as they hit the dirt.

The vast majority never see a scratch but because you only see the results of those who drove beyond their limits that is what you associate them with.

I honestly don’t think my RZR has seen faster than 60mph. I feel safer driving it in the dirt than I do traveling the streets of Parker or Havasu in the winter with it. Many of the people using them on the street aren’t even wearing helmets.

There was talk earlier about crumple zones. Want to know what the crumple zone is on a UTV versus a snowbird dually... all of it lol

These machines are safe for what they’re intended for and the conditions your abilities warrant. Surpass either one and RD creates a thread about it.

Do your due diligence if shopping for a cage. Shop and interview them based on cost, not price. “If the build price is X what is the cost in a catastrophic event.”

Go have fun with your families and enjoy the off-road lifestyle. It’s safe if you respect them and not think you’re Robby Gordon.

 

[77charger]

that being said don’t drive past your or the machine limits and you will live

Best sentence ive seen reading to here!I hear all the excuses when people bust a front end on these at glamis or roll over its usually the dunes changed from the wind,witcheyes can be anywhere,couldnt see the drop off the sand blended in,etc.Truth is they were driving too fast and couldnt react to the changing conditions.
Been duning for 35 years yes ive had my dirtbike crashes from jumping or just lost control of it no one to blame but myself.Mostly stick to buggy these days and will adjust to the conditions have rolled through witcheyes but was able to slow down enough and just roll over with a little jolt.

 

[Big B Hova]

Too much crap to read in this thread.

I have a stock cage and 4 point harnesses in my shitty over priced golf cart (xp4 1000)

Can I jump sand dunes with my family or not?

Hope your friend is ok Dave. Shit goes sideways offroad easily.

 

[WhatExit?]

I thought about a SxS multiple times and for multiple reasons I kept coming back to a new JEEP instead

Caged with windows, doors, A/C and sat radio, etc.

 

[monkeyswrench]

As for the cage design, everything I was taught was the structure needs to be triangulated. The stresses of impacts were to be redirected away from passenger compartment, and towards the chassis/ suspension platform. Most of these SxS things are running a pillars and halos that have the structural integrity of lasagna.

@Racey pointed out the sugaring and lack of purging if the chassis was chromoly. Thin wall moly is really brittle as compared to mild steel or DOM. I have seen tubing "break" like pictured, but it was on a sand drag chassis. It was constructed of "02thinwall". As it turned out, .049 and .065 wall still fit the bill as a chromoly chassis...but not one I'd trust.

 

[monkeyswrench]

As for the cage design, everything I was taught was the structure needs to be triangulated. The stresses of impacts were to be redirected away from passenger compartment, and towards the chassis/ suspension platform. Most of these SxS things are running a pillars and halos that have the structural integrity of lasagna.

@Racey pointed out the sugaring and lack of purging if the chassis was chromoly. Thin wall moly is already really brittle as compared to mild steel or DOM. I have seen tubing "break" like pictured, but it was on a sand drag chassis. It was constructed of "02thinwall". As it turned out, .049 and .065 wall still fit the bill as a chromoly chassis...but not one I'd trust.

 

[Dalton]

think they followed "form over function" on that cage, probably built by a sand car company, way different product than you would get with a company like Camburg, Geiser etc.

but honestly it may have been such a strong impact just about any cage would buckle

 

[Skinny Tire AH]

I’m a little surprised at the amount of negativity in this thread. If you didn’t know any better you would think 8 out of 10 of these machines are yard sales as soon as they hit the dirt.

The vast majority never see a scratch but because you only see the results of those who drove beyond their limits that is what you associate them with.

I honestly don’t think my RZR has seen faster than 60mph. I feel safer driving it in the dirt than I do traveling the streets of Parker or Havasu in the winter with it. Many of the people using them on the street aren’t even wearing helmets.

There was talk earlier about crumple zones. Want to know what the crumple zone is on a UTV versus a snowbird dually... all of it lol

These machines are safe for what they’re intended for and the conditions your abilities warrant. Surpass either one and RD creates a thread about it.

Do your due diligence if shopping for a cage. Shop and interview them based on cost, not price. “If the build price is X what is the cost in a catastrophic event.”

Go have fun with your families and enjoy the off-road lifestyle. It’s safe if you respect them and not think you’re Robby Gordon.

Excellent.

 

[Bigbore500r]

Too much crap to read in this thread.

I have a stock cage and 4 point harnesses in my shitty over priced golf cart (xp4 1000)

Can I jump sand dunes with my family or not?

Hope your friend is ok Dave. Shit goes sideways offroad easily.

Did you buy those wrist restraints for the kiddo yet? Do it!!!!

 

[Bigbore500r]

I’m reading a lot of “just respect the machine” and “drive within your abilities”.

It doesn’t have to be batshit crazy driving or freak accidents. I’m gonna sound like your weenie neighbors momma here....

It can be a blown tire on a wide open fire road, somebody blowing across the trail in cross traffic, an oncoming guy hanging it wide around a blind corner, or the guy your following jamming the brakes the split second your distracted. You might punch it on a wide open straight and get a little further out of shape than you expected. Maybe the sun hit your windshield and you didn’t read the trail ahead properly...

Get your safety shit on point, buy quality shit, get the kids in wrist restraints, and wear real helmets.

it’s always fine till it’s not.....

And seeing how that cage snapped clean off and collapsed, I’ll be talking to some real fab shops for a cage when I get another. Better off with a stock cage than the low-pro fastback craigslist special.

Easy to say all that BS in hindsight, but I’m saying it anyways cause wiping out SUX

 

[monkeyswrench]

As for the cage design, everything I was taught was the structure needs to be triangulated. The stresses of impacts were to be redirected away from passenger compartment, and towards the chassis/ suspension platform. Most of these SxS things are running a pillars and halos that have the structural integrity of lasagna.

@Racey pointed out the sugaring and lack of purging if the chassis was chromoly. Thin wall moly is already really brittle as compared to mild steel or DOM. I have seen tubing "break" like pictured, but it was on a sand drag chassis. It was constructed of "02thinwall". As it turned out, .049 and .065 wall still fit the bill as a chromoly chassis...but not one I'd trust.

 

[JUSTWANNARACE]

Just because they can bend some tube and stick 2 pieces of metal together doesnt make them a fabricator.. I've watched alot of people start at one side, weld all the way around then throw a wet rag on it to cool and start the next weld.. never quenching or annealing after. Sure the weld is strong but all the metal around will shatter with the smack of a hammer.. doesnt matter if its mild steel, DOM, 4130, Ti, alum.. if not done properly its junk. Heck I've seen alot of shit done with no drilled pin holes throughout the tubing while welding. Let alone argon purging the inside of the tube while tig welding.. sad to see but...

 

[LargeOrangeFont]

I’m a little surprised at the amount of negativity in this thread. If you didn’t know any better you would think 8 out of 10 of these machines are yard sales as soon as they hit the dirt.

The vast majority never see a scratch but because you only see the results of those who drove beyond their limits that is what you associate them with.

I honestly don’t think my RZR has seen faster than 60mph. I feel safer driving it in the dirt than I do traveling the streets of Parker or Havasu in the winter with it. Many of the people using them on the street aren’t even wearing helmets.

There was talk earlier about crumple zones. Want to know what the crumple zone is on a UTV versus a snowbird dually... all of it lol

These machines are safe for what they’re intended for and the conditions your abilities warrant. Surpass either one and RD creates a thread about it.

Do your due diligence if shopping for a cage. Shop and interview them based on cost, not price. “If the build price is X what is the cost in a catastrophic event.”

Go have fun with your families and enjoy the off-road lifestyle. It’s safe if you respect them and not think you’re Robby Gordon.

You are surprised by haters on RDP???

 

[rivrrts429]

You are surprised by haters on RDP???

Not only do I need a Freightliner to tow my RZR safely I’m only going to be safe if I build a trophy truck lol

 

[riverroyal]

Agree...those joint reinforcements are designed exactly right.

Ive seen a few totaled can ams this season already. The guys at the dealer in havasu showed me one. The stock cage does good. No reason to buy aftermarket.
I was skeptical when i bought it. After seeing these im ok leaving it as is.
I did buy stronger bolts for my aftermarket seats, i was not ok with the ones that came from the seat manufacturer.
Next purchase will prob be nets. Or aftermarket belts. Stock seam ok, but i dunno.

On the FLIP side, that guys cage in the oldmobile roll did outstanding.

 

[Bigbore500r]

Not only do I need a Freightliner to tow my RZR safely I’m only going to be safe if I build a trophy truck lol

Correction - you need to BUY a quality built trophy truck sir

 

[Your ad here]

End over end 4 times into a bowl by Osborne lookout and it hit hard every time. Jackass driver drove off the top into the bowl going about 35-40mph. Stock everything. Was passenger and wearing my helmet. If I wasn't wearing a helmet I would've busted my head open on the oh shit handle and we would've been screwed since the driver didn't strap his helmet on so it flew off and he hit his head 3 times on the steering wheel and was out of it. If there was backseat passengers it would've been bad. 8 hours on the thing. These things are stupid. Death trap you are strapped in. I don't get them at all. They are a 4 wheeled vehicle without a V8. Where is the fun in that? Never will I ever go for a ride in one of these things even if I get to drive. No way to eject when shit hits the fan. I'm a dirt biker for life.

 

[NicPaus]

My last trip to Glamis one of the Guys I was riding with did that on a quad off a dune. He did not walk away he passed away.

 

[Ziggy]

One thing that a lot of people don't take in consideration is the weld location and then stress concentration at that location. Especially with 4130 it is very brittle in the welded section. That is why you see trophy trucks and such heat treat and aneal critical components then finish machine them after the fact. In applications such as this there is something to be said for mild steel... Yeah you can build a cage of similar strength with lighter weight out of 4130 but there is a give and take there also. The wall thickness looks to be very thin on that cage also, I know that NHRA mandates a material thickness of .083" on 4130? I would guess the A pillar failure is due to the heat affected zone from welding in the brace. Probably a MIG welded 4130 cage? Most importantly, glad your friend is ok!!!

My immediate thought was the weld weakened the A piller tube.

 

[rrrr]

Was passenger and wearing my helmet. If I wasn't wearing a helmet I would've busted my head open on the oh shit handle and we would've been screwed since the driver didn't strap his helmet on so it flew off and he hit his head 3 times on the steering wheel and was out of it.

Didn't strap it? That's stupidity in action. Might as well left it in the truck. Glad to hear you were OK.

This thread is an eye opener. I know a large percentage of SXS owners will drive them without issue, but the ones that outrun their talent make for some interesting photos and stories.

 

[cakemoto]

Approaching 60.

Pick it up Friday! .

(Won’t fold like laundry)

View attachment 813780 View attachment 813781 View attachment 813782 View attachment 813783

That’s cool Dave but you know what sorry to tell you but your $60,000 car the front end is held on by bolts.I sure hope they did the gusset kit for you

 

[2Driver]

Approaching 60.
Pick it up Friday! .

We may have a lead on that retirement savings issue you're having.

 

[DaveH]

all this talk of how this cage was a POS.

what we dont know is really how bad of a hit this was. Minor roll over at 35? or wide open 80+mph end over end cart-wheel multiple times.

without knowing more precisely about what actually happened.....its purely speculation if that cage is junk.

 

[79 HUSTLER]

all this talk of how this cage was a POS.

what we dont know is really how bad of a hit this was. Minor roll over at 35? or wide open 80+mph end over end cart-wheel multiple times.

without knowing more precisely about what actually happened.....its purely speculation if that cage is junk.

EXACTLY!!!! Tons of experts here and not one person posting knows about the accident.

 

[riverroyal]

all this talk of how this cage was a POS.

what we dont know is really how bad of a hit this was. Minor roll over at 35? or wide open 80+mph end over end cart-wheel multiple times.

without knowing more precisely about what actually happened.....its purely speculation if that cage is junk.

It’s RDP, guilty until proven innocent.
Glass is half empty. Light the torches.
Good thing is the guy did not die, so that’s positive

 

[Floatin']

I don't know any of the details of this particular sxs wreck, but it looks like a pretty hard hit and they are luck to have walked away

 

[LargeOrangeFont]

It’s RDP, guilty until proven innocent.
Glass is half empty. Light the torches.
Good thing is the guy did not die, so that’s positive

Crappy cage did it’s job protecting helmet-less driver.

Still waiting on if alcohol was a factor.. that is the true PSA.

 

[LargeOrangeFont]

EXACTLY!!!! Tons of experts here and not one person posting knows about the accident.

If the driver was drunk with no helmet at night, we blame the roll cage.

 

[mash on it]

Horsepower and Roll cages,

Too much is just enough

Dan'l

 

[LargeOrangeFont]

We may have a lead on that retirement savings issue you're having.

EZ come EZ go

 

[Letsride22]

Ya but I like that lol. The biggest risk in my eyes for that is avalanches.

The only real similar scenario I can compare snowmobiles to SXS's is heading down the road prior to getting into the back country at 50 plus miles an hour. I watched a guy in Alpine blow past me at about 60 mph hit a patch of ice and try and use his own body to cut down a few 100 foot pines. I take it easy on the snow and icy packed roads.

I will also add that if you aren't good at riding a sled you really can't get into technical terrain, most people get stuck in about 3 feet.

Snowmobiling is for pussies!

 

[RiverDave]

Crappy cage did it’s job protecting helmet-less driver.

Still waiting on if alcohol was a factor.. that is the true PSA.

Dunno if it was or wasn’t?

 

[RiverDave]

If the driver was drunk with no helmet at night, we blame the roll cage.

You have punted quite the picture there.. lol.

Now it’s drunk at night too?

 

[lakemadness]

Mine is $200 for a year, and includes insurance for driving on AZ streets. It is insured for stock FMV for replacement which is probably $18K. If I wanted to insure all the "upgrades" it was close to $600.

I have just under $20K total into the car including upgrades.

Wow, I would have guessed $200 a month.

 

[lbhsbz]

That’s cool Dave but you know what sorry to tell you but your $60,000 car the front end is held on by bolts.I sure hope they did the gusset kit for you

What's wrong with bolts? Bolts hold lots of much more critical things together than the front end of a glorified golf cart.

For example, a single Grade 8 3/8-24 bolt has a tension capability of over 12,000 lbs. One of these bolts can create a joint with that much clamping force holding it together, if the joint is designed properly.

 

[monkeyswrench]

What do these things weigh? I have no clue, don't own one and never done cage work on one. In the 90's, a typical hardpack car or dune buggy weighed half of the current cars...some even less. As the travel increased, so did the weight. As the weight increased, so did the power. With more power, the cars were built up once again...a constant cycle.

As for outrunning your talent, yep, shit happens. There are also structural failures, like sheared pivot or link bolts, or a sheared spindle. Years back with a 7 Unlimited truck we would change out every nut, bolt and washer after every race. We'd put eyes and hands on everything that way...or so we thought. Came of a jump, and in the rebound saw the right front tire, with rotor, beat us down the hill. Well crap, learned something new.

 

[HotRod82]

I dunno guys.....there are different levels of safety. The sxs's these days are capable of speeds that are unsafe with any add-on cage when compared to an actual tube chassis. A full tube chassis (properly designed and built) is completely intregal. Every tube supports the structure as a whole. SxS's with their add-on cages are 1000 times less safe than a real tube frame car when the speeds go up.

Judging by the pics, that was a hell of a hit...the suspension arms folded too, and they are designed to be hammered through whoops and jumped on. Dude is lucky to be alive, hopefully he fully recovers.

 

[RiverDave]

I asked the guy how fast they were going and he said 50+.. (a lot faster than my initial impression)

 

[LargeOrangeFont]

You have punted quite the picture there.. lol.

Now it’s drunk at night too?

Well what are we to do when you post a picture with half the details? Just trying to keep those clicks coming for you over here

 

[RiverDave]

Well what are we to do when you post a picture with half the details? Just trying to keep those clicks coming for you over here

Slow it down!! The commission checks are getting hefty!

 

[LargeOrangeFont]

I asked the guy how fast they were going and he said 50+.. (a lot faster than my initial impression)

That was what I expected based on the level of carnage. You aren’t ripping corners off the car at 20-30 mph.

Again, I don’t know what people expect.. you land a 2000 lb car on its roof at 50 on 3 pieces of tubes they are gonna move.

 

[LargeOrangeFont]

Slow it down!! The commission checks are getting hefty!

You have a new SXS to pay for.

 

[MK1MOD0]

The problem with the smashed RZR cage is simple. There is no vertical bar to triangulate the windshield hoop. Look at a SCORE legal RZR and see the difference.

 

[LargeOrangeFont]

What do these things weigh? I have no clue, don't own one and never done cage work on one. In the 90's, a typical hardpack car or dune buggy weighed half of the current cars...some even less. As the travel increased, so did the weight. As the weight increased, so did the power. With more power, the cars were built up once again...a constant cycle.

As for outrunning your talent, yep, shit happens. There are also structural failures, like sheared pivot or link bolts, or a sheared spindle. Years back with a 7 Unlimited truck we would change out every nut, bolt and washer after every race. We'd put eyes and hands on everything that way...or so we thought. Came of a jump, and in the rebound saw the right front tire, with rotor, beat us down the hill. Well crap, learned something new.

2000 lbs for a 4 seater.

 

[LargeOrangeFont]

The problem with the smashed RZR cage is simple. There is no vertical bar to triangulate the windshield hoop. Look at a SCORE legal RZR and see the difference.

Exactly. Without that, the windshield is always gonna move. And if you don’t move the seats around you are going to smash your legs into that bar over every bump.

 

[JD D05]

Exactly. Without that, the windshield is always gonna move. And if you don’t move the seats around you are going to smash your legs into that bar over every bump.

Snowmobiles don't have windshields so there.

 

[DaveH]

ive always wondered....

all these things have cages that are fugly. dang near the first part to be replaced is the cage.

could the makers alleviate liability when someone gets killed in one and say "modified from factory specs, not our problem".

food for thought.

 

[MK1MOD0]

Snowmobiles don't have windshields so there.

Lol!

 

[LargeOrangeFont]

Snowmobiles don't have windshields so there.

Solid.

 

[Ziggy]

Snowmobiles don't have windshields so there.

Say whaaaaat? LOL