SXS Rollovers

[rmarion]

guys.....
DO NOT RAISE these with taller tires, shocks or whatever...

maintain a low COG ....

too many accidents, Rollovers.. you hear about

just remember 60, 70, 80 Rails... very few (I never heard of any) rollovers if any... now wheelies or a wheelie flip.. is a different subject

keep the RUBBER DOWN!!

ALSO WEAR FULL GEAR in these..

stay safe..

 

[TPC]

Look at the new Polaris on the showroom floor. They are even higher now.
Real tipsy.
I left my Can Am stock height. Looks great, rides good, real stabil. A blast to drive.

We've had some brutal roll over X3's in our off road groups. The stock cage held up fine.

Every rail in our dune groups has rolled. Most the Rzrs haven't.
At some early point in operation it's driver responsibility with all these vehicles.

 

[Carlson-jet]

When I was a kid my pops had a rail. Basically a T-Bucket body with some 50's era car frame, bulldog front end and a 327. Rode like shit but was fun.

 

[Orange Juice]

I see roll over accidents all the time. Most of them are SUV’s in residential neighbors where the speed limit is 45 mph.

there is a lot more involved in roll overs other than typical center of gravity.

 

[Riverfamlee]

Another SxS bashing thread? Raise the COG on anything and there are trade offs. Don’t raise your trucks anymore either

 

[77charger]

Look at the new Polaris on the showroom floor. They are even higher now.
Real tipsy.
I left my Can Am stock height. Looks great, rides good, real stabil. A blast to drive.

We've had some brutal roll over X3's in our off road groups. The stock cage held up fine.

Every rail in our dune groups has rolled. Most the Rzrs haven't.
At some early point in operation it's driver responsibility with all these vehicles.

So buggys and x3s roll but rzrs are magic

 

[BingerFang]

SXS’s don’t roll themselves, idiots do.

 

[DLC]

I think rolling a sxs, rail, Jeep or a truck has a lot more to do with the driver rather than the car/ vehicle itself.

having said that I’ve been in 4 rollovers

2 while racing, I was not driving in both times

3rd time was a hold my beer moment, I was not driving

4 th time I was driving and rolled a ford ranger around a curve and was blinded by on coming lights, I was 20 yrs old driving to fast, this was 30 plus years ago.

only one of these roll overs was mechanical failure....

 

[rmarion]

early 80's... my uncle threw me his keys to his Jeep, tall tires, I almost rolled a corner on a fire road.... luckily no one was coming around the corner... I was able to ease her back down and make the corner.... she HAD my respect QUICKLY....

I've never been in a SXS... but shit eating grim and dirt in my teeth with rides on Honda odyssey and sand rails.... never felt they would roll.

pushing the limits Racing...you know your ride and how she's gonna respond.....

I hear too many weekend warriors pit racers.... who run out of skillz when they start it up....

 

[LargeOrangeFont]

Mine has 1 inch taller tires and is 3-4 inches higher than stock with disconnected sway bars..

Opened the garage last weekend when I got to the house and found my RZR sitting there on its roof.

The SXS safety police seem to be the same people that blame the gun for shooting someone.

 

[rmarion]

PS... they do look like a Blast to ride. (never been on one) maybe one day.... but thatd be after I can't swing a leg over my 450f....

 

[JD D05]

Mine has 1 inch taller tires and is 3-4 inches higher than stock with disconnected sway bars..

Opened the garage last weekend when I got to the house and found my RZR sitting there on its roof.

The SXS safety police seem to be the same people that blame the gun for shooting someone.

I snuck in and tipped it over. Trying to save yore life bro.

 

[LargeOrangeFont]

I snuck in and tipped it over. Trying to save yore life bro.

You owe me for the crushed roll cage then.

 

[TCHB]

Havasu http://www.havasuscannerfeed.com/vehicle-accident-rollover/

 

[LargeOrangeFont]

Havasu http://www.havasuscannerfeed.com/vehicle-accident-rollover/

Right on cue. Hope they are ok.

The big risk with a SXS in any rollover is keeping your hands and feet inside.

 

[Joker]

Havasu http://www.havasuscannerfeed.com/vehicle-accident-rollover/

Reason #151 why not to spend your kids college tuition on a souped up golf cart

 

[LargeOrangeFont]

Reason #151 why not to spend your kids college tuition on a souped up golf cart

Just buy an ATC instead.

 

[JD D05]

You owe me for the crushed roll cage then.

Well played. Come to UT and ride the real deal with me. But you might die

 

[BingerFang]

My cousin almost died a few weeks ago in a roll over. He didn’t have his seatbelt on in the back seat.... He cracked his skull on the front passenger seat belt mount that’s welded to the cage. Very lucky to be alive...

 

[Bpracing1127]

My cousin almost died a few weeks ago in a roll over. He didn’t have his seatbelt on in the back seat.... He cracked his skull on the front passenger seat belt mount that’s welded to the cage. Very lucky to be alive...

Again when will people learn. You have to be some kind of special to not wear a seat belt?

 

[rmarion]

IMO... an aftermarket company might do well with wider axles..$$$$

actually it's all about speed.... with a wider axle you'll have more stability ..... = more throttle.... = Faster Than YOU!!!

 

[TPC]

Notice Wider outside offset on your wheels and don't raise the vehicle and you'll be fine. Know your limits - know your vehicles limits.
Two type of drivers out there; drunk and stupid or sober and safe.
I forgave myself long ago for not being Iron Man Stewart.

 

[rrrr]

Another SxS bashing thread? Raise the COG on anything and there are trade offs. Don’t raise your trucks anymore either

Yeah, but most of those trucks never leave paved roads.

 

[hawgty55]

When I was a kid my pops had a rail. Basically a T-Bucket body with some 50's era car frame, bulldog front end and a 327. Rode like shit but was fun.

Been in my family for as long as i can remember going through a makover.

 

[LowRiver2]

Man , these message boards have become 2008 all over again. It’s a cycle: good economy, more people buy recreational vehicles, more mishaps are noticed. Pretty sure the ratio of wipe outs are the same in comparison to numbers of any said off road vehicles being used.

But everyone loves to finger point.
I saw, helped plenty of stock rhinos roll back over then , the only difference is more horsepower and higher speeds which can equal more severe injury.
Driver error is the constant, higher speed and power are the variables for carnage.

The bubble will come eventually, less people in the dirt playing and less people will notice the wipe outs and post about it.
Cycles people, good day

 

[jailbird141]

early 80's... my uncle threw me his keys to his Jeep, tall tires, I almost rolled a corner on a fire road.... luckily no one was coming around the corner... I was able to ease her back down and make the corner.... she HAD my respect QUICKLY....

I've never been in a SXS... but shit eating grim and dirt in my teeth with rides on Honda odyssey and sand rails.... never felt they would roll.

pushing the limits Racing...you know your ride and how she's gonna respond.....

I hear too many weekend warriors pit racers.... who run out of skillz when they start it up....

You have never been in a SxS? It is safe to assume then that you have never driven one, correct? I am confused about making suggestions regarding them? You should try driving one and see how they handle. I have had many many off road vehicles. As a current owner of a SxS, with taller than stock tires, I have never rolled it. I can tell you, in my educated opinion, almost all the roll overs I have seen or heard about have been driver error. I will admit, I have seen one that equipment failed and it rolled, but it was not the tires that caused it. I think you would be very enlightened if you rode with someone that has no idea how to drive one and someone that knows how to drive one. I would venture to say you would change your opinion that driver error is more of a problem than taller tires.

 

[LargeOrangeFont]

Notice Wider outside offset on your wheels and don't raise the vehicle and you'll be fine. Know your limits - know your vehicles limits.
Two type of drivers out there; drunk and stupid or sober and safe.
I forgave myself long ago for not being Iron Man Stewart.

Those low offset wheels look awesome and are ok in the sand, but up front they actually make things worse and make the car harder to control on every other surface. They increase the scrub radius and make it easier for the steering wheel to be ripped from your hands, increase steering effort, and put more stress on wheel bearings and all steering and suspension components.

 

[Englewood]

Those low offset wheels look awesome and are ok in the sand, but up front they actually make things worse and make the car harder to control on every other surface. They increase the scrub radius and make it easier for the steering wheel to be ripped from your hands, increase steering effort, and put more stress on wheel bearings and all steering and suspension components.

Exactly...You are actually increasing your chances of rolling.

 

[LakeBeard]

Been in my family for as long as i can remember going through a makover. View attachment 814258

that's bad ass!

 

[lbhsbz]

Those low offset wheels look awesome and are ok in the sand, but up front they actually make things worse and make the car harder to control on every other surface. They increase the scrub radius and make it easier for the steering wheel to be ripped from your hands, increase steering effort, and put more stress on wheel bearings and all steering and suspension components.

Wheel bearings and suspension/steering components are under warranty..right?

 

[ramos45]

Those low offset wheels look awesome and are ok in the sand, but up front they actually make things worse and make the car harder to control on every other surface. They increase the scrub radius and make it easier for the steering wheel to be ripped from your hands, increase steering effort, and put more stress on wheel bearings and all steering and suspension components.

Holy crap dude....rubbing one out thumb side down has a higher probability of rotator cuff injury, but feels like a stranger when switching to this so most accept the risks.

 

[LargeOrangeFont]

Wheel bearings and suspension/steering components are under warranty..right?

Correct. I don’t know if the warranty covers broken thumbs though

I drove one with deep offset wheels, and then with normal offset.. was astounded at the difference in control when you screw up the steering geometry.

 

[DC-88]

Holy crap dude....rubbing one out thumb side down has a higher probability of rotator cuff injury, but feels like a stranger when switching to this so most accept the risks.

I don't care who ya are --guy or chick....depending on yore version of rubbing....but that rotator cuff's the first time I laughed yet on this entirely shitty day

 

[RiverDave]

guys.....
DO NOT RAISE these with taller tires, shocks or whatever...

maintain a low COG ....

too many accidents, Rollovers.. you hear about

just remember 60, 70, 80 Rails... very few (I never heard of any) rollovers if any... now wheelies or a wheelie flip.. is a different subject

keep the RUBBER DOWN!!

ALSO WEAR FULL GEAR in these..

stay safe..

I ran one of the most high cg sxs’s ever built for years with no issues and we took this thing EVERYWHERE including a lot of places others wouldn’t!

Common sense goes a long ways.

 

[rmarion]

Common sense goes a long ways.


View attachment 815236 View attachment 815237

too bad the aftermarket shops cant offer this for purchase...

 

[paradise]

Operator error. In the 60s, 70s, 80s, 90s even you started with a low horsepower vw car with no suspension, and had to really learn how to read the sand/dirt and how to drive the cars. Now you have people with 0 experience buying a high horsepower car or a SXS and yeah, they’re gonna roll.

I’ve never had a car or sxs on its lid in 32 years (proud of it) and I think if you ask the people we ride with I don’t drive slow or easy. It’s all about knowing you and your vehicles capabilities and staying within them. I can still remember having a much more experienced guy teach me how to read the sand and how to drive. I’ve been on two wheels plenty of times since, there’s the limit

that’s the difference, there’s no learning now. You’ve got a brand new guy with 0 time in an x3 going 80 mph through the whoops. Doesn’t take long for that to go sideways (pun intended). The vehicles aren’t the problem, it’s the environment (everyone’s a badass and wants to make an instagram moment. No one is teaching anyone edit-nor does anyone want to take advice if you offer)

my .02

 

[TPC]

Those low offset wheels look awesome and are ok in the sand, but up front they actually make things worse and make the car harder to control on every other surface. They increase the scrub radius and make it easier for the steering wheel to be ripped from your hands, increase steering effort, and put more stress on wheel bearings and all steering and suspension components.

I respect your right honorable opinion.

I haven't experienced that at all, ever. Nor have my friends or people in our offroad groups, never.
I've done it to the 5 Rzrs I've owned never experienced that nor anything near it.

People try to justify the extra money they sunk into shocks and a cage and IMHO you don't need any of it. Some we meet wish they never did do the mods. Especially the clunky metal doors. No one wants to admit they are wrong or it's people building, selling and installing this stuff are the ones that really put the hard sell on.

Sorry, ya just don't need any of it.
More power to ya if you feel it's necessary. It's your money and your thrills.

All my SxS's I've done it with outstanding results and I'll continue to do it. Thousands and thousands of miles lots of different drivers.

A few examples of my past SxS's:
Notice the radiused tread edges on the Ultra Cross tires. That's what you run.
If you run a Tensor or similar flat tread-non radiused edge tire even on stock rims you'll eventually get that bearing and suspension failure. Proven on several RDP runs and pretty quick I might add.
They were the only guys that experienced what you mention.

I was the first to do it on our 800:

All the roll overs in our groups both rails and SxS's have been by drunk and stupid drivers me included every time, or rails trying to keep up with the Rzrs push it way to far,,, and they know better.

I digress from these SxS'd bashing threads.

 

[LargeOrangeFont]

I respect your right honorable opinion.

I haven't experienced that at all, ever. Nor have my friends or people in our offroad groups, never.
I've done it to the 5 Rzrs I've owned never experienced that nor anything near it.

People try to justify the extra money they sunk into shocks and a cage and IMHO you don't need any of it. Some we meet wish they never did do the mods. Especially the clunky metal doors. No one wants to admit they are wrong or it's people building, selling and installing this stuff are the ones that really put the hard sell on.

Sorry, ya just don't need any of it.
More power to ya if you feel it's necessary. It's your money and your thrills.

All my SxS's I've done it with outstanding results and I'll continue to do it. Thousands and thousands of miles lots of different drivers.

A few examples of my past SxS's:
Notice the radiused tread edges on the Ultra Cross tires. That's what you run.
If you run a Tensor or similar flat tread-non radiused edge tire even on stock rims you'll eventually get that bearing and suspension failure. Proven on several RDP runs and pretty quick I might add.
They were the only guys that experienced what you mention.

I was the first to do it on our 800:

All the roll overs in our groups both rails and SxS's have been by drunk and stupid drivers me included every time, or rails trying to keep up with the Rzrs push it way to far,,, and they know better.

I digress from these SxS'd bashing threads.

You have tons of experience so I’m not questioning your experience at all.

The scrub radius issue is really only an “issue” on the newer machines. The 800,900 were designed for those deep offset wheels, so in the past this was not an “issue”. XP 1000s, Turbos and the 72” cars this becomes an “issue”.

I say “issue” because it is really just a best practice. If you drove your car on the same terrain with a stock offset wheel and a deep offset wheel, you’d notice the stock offset wheel transmits back less feedback, is easier to steer, and feels a little more direct.

In the sand this makes very little difference, because your front tires are more like rudders lol, so yes run the wide offset wheel for stability.

You aren’t going to die or anything running a 4+3 wheel in the dirt, but a 5+2 or newer 6+1 will drive a little better, but not look as cool.

You’ll notice most of the pro builds for dirt use those “flat face” wheels these days, this is why.


With respect to the shocks, that is the best money I’ve spent on the car. If someone has a stock car and wants to feel more comfortable in the car, my advice is do the shocks before you do the seats unless you are uncomfortable just sitting in the stock seat.

I had my rear shock valving revised last month, it was the best $350 I’ve spent on the car. Both my wife and MIL exclaimed “WOW this rides better than before!” Less than 5 mins into the first ride. And my car rode miles better than a stock car with the valving setup it had before.

To your point on the cage, mine is still stock and will stay that way. I may do a good quality aftermarket cage on my next one. I can’t see throwing more money into my 1000 that I will never get back just so it looks cooler.

These machines are a ton of fun right off the showroom floor. The stock springs on all of them seem to be the only consistent disappointment.

 

[riverroyal]

LOF, i got lost in your post...the flat face wheel set up is why? Im considering a wheel change on the RC

 

[LargeOrangeFont]

LOF, i got lost in your post...the flat face wheel set up is why? Im considering a wheel change on the RC

Take a look at the pictures of RD’s build and your stock wheels. For a hardpack setup that is what will work best, a low offset wheel, which will generally have a flat face, and little to no dish.

The long and the short of it is if you get a low offset “deep dish” looking wheel in front you increase the scrub radius. The scrub radius is the difference between the imaginary kingpin line, and the center of the contact patch of the tire.

By increasing scrub radius you are giving that tire more leverage AGAINST your steering inputs. This can affect steering feel, steering feedback and ride, and is harder on steering and suspension components. You have power steering so the bad traits are somewhat muted through that.

So stay with a 5+2 or 6+1 wheel if possible for best performance on anything but sand.

Is the sand this is way less of an issue because the front tires don’t have a lid of traction, so a low offset deep dish wheel is fine.

 

[185EZ]

Havasu http://www.havasuscannerfeed.com/vehicle-accident-rollover/

https://www.havasunews.com/news/min...cle_7cff305e-0126-11ea-9642-6777bf87c0c4.html

 

[RiverDave]

@LargeOrangeFont he was saying the radiused tire vs the squared off tires. Somewhere in there You switched back to wheels and offset.

 

[LargeOrangeFont]

@LargeOrangeFont he was saying the radiused tire vs the squared off tires. Somewhere in there You switched back to wheels and offset.

That is correct, but no matter what tire you choose, if your steering geometry is off, it’s off.

To TPC’s point he is right, a heavy, square sided tire will catch more ruts, rocks, etc Vs. a rounded tire, and this can be harder on parts. A low offset wheel makes that even worse, and the potential for damage greater.

The square tire may give more traction in many conditions, but there are a ton of variables there.

Most of the hard pack/desert tires these days seem to be in between.

I have not driven every tire, but me and @Bpracing1127 have very similar setups and have switched cars a couple times. He has a round Pro Armor Crawler tire, and I have a more square Maxxis Liberty tire.

There was a huge difference in steering effort and feel just between the 2 tires. The rounder tires on his car took less steering effort, and had less steering feedback. But the steering was not as direct feeling.

My tires that were more square took more steering effort, but gave a more direct steering feel.

My 5+2 STI wheels may have slightly more offset than his Pro Armor wheels as well. Pro Armor does not publish their wheel offsets that I can find.

 

[RiverDave]

Pro armor I would wager are factory offsets

 

[J&k beer can]

https://www.havasunews.com/news/min...cle_7cff305e-0126-11ea-9642-6777bf87c0c4.html

someone get hurt?
why do the fire dept and ambulance need to be there??
that thing could be put in 4 low and backed out and uprighted.. don't ask me how I know...

 

[JayBreww]

someone get hurt?
why do the fire dept and ambulance need to be there??
that thing could be put in 4 low and backed out and uprighted.. don't ask me how I know...

Because they were bored and wanted to see.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[LargeOrangeFont]

Pro armor I would wager are factory offsets

Yes. Not quiet a factory offset but pretty close. His was wider than mine when I had the stock wheels.

I was going to get 6+1 wheels for my RZR, but the rear would have been 1/4” narrower than stock, so I went with 5+2 wheels.