WELCOME TO RIVER DAVES PLACE

Friend of mine almost died a week ago.. RZR PSA

LargeOrangeFont

We aren't happy until you aren't happy
Joined
Sep 4, 2015
Messages
49,690
Reaction score
76,151
Nope. Pretty much window nets and arm restraints only. Of course I do stand a chance of getting hurt if I drive beyond the vehicle's limits. With the fiancee in the passenger seat holding two weenie dogs, I will never do that. We don't need to go crazy. But crazy in a SxS is a lot different than a U4. What could be considered regular duty for a U4 could be pushing the limits of a SxS. What could be catastrophic for a SxS, the U4 could just shrug off.

That's what it is for me. Recreational or aggressive driving, having something that is up for the job every time without fail...for pretty close to the same amount of money.

Any safety advantage you think you have is pretty much an illusion then. You could easily be seriously injured in the right type of crash at 50-60 MPH... let alone 70-80 MPH.

I'm not the safety police, you do you, and I will do me, but a racing oriented vehicle introduces a whole host of challenges and risks.

A SXS is not capable of the all out speed of a U4 so it is not built from the factory to allow you survive an 80 MPH crash - to your point, "crazy" is different between the two, and the point I keep coming back to, they are 2 different vehicles that do different things.
 

LowRiver2

Well-Known Member
Joined
Sep 20, 2007
Messages
8,928
Reaction score
16,632
I'm a little confused with the comments surrounding maintenance costs? I have a decent sand car and the maintenance is minimal.

Oil change every year = $35 if you get the synthetic oil/filter deal at Vato Zone and do it yourself
CV disassembly/inspection/re-pack every other year = $50(?) for the grease if everything looks good. Could probably replace all 4 CVs for $800 if you really had to, but that's almost never the case
Transaxle rebuild every 5 years = $2000 or so

What else is there? Air filter cleaning? Shock rebuilding/tuning? My costs of maintenance have never been very high. Is it because I do it all myself (with the exception of actually rebuilding the transaxle - I'll pull it out and put it back in though)? I don't see what else I could be missing.

I would rebuild CV’s every three trips and and only run a sequential transaxle. 2D’s and equivalents are a joke with anything larger than a V6 in terms of strength/longevity.
I can pass V6 cars in the bowls in my sxs, so I need to be in $65k plus car (used) to do what I want that my sxs can’t in speed.
Would I take take that car to Mammoth, Big Bear, Havasu? Nope, just be too big and slow like a Jeep.
I’d do oil changes every other trip, heim replacement every season.

My point is I’d only be happy in a 500+ HP car over my 200 HP sxs , notwithstanding I’d need an enclosed trailer and MH, instead of a toy hauler. SXS’s are 30-40% cheaper on any service ( total season costs) vs a sand car past the oil change and CV’s last much longer.
10 minutes for a belt change vs destroying a reverse in a 2D and paying a grand is enough for me, lol.

To each their own but I’ve been involved in VW (1914) and CBM ecotech cars. Both good cars and reliable but neither could do everything my sxs can, let alone at 6’2”, I actually am comfortable Vs sliding into a mid travel car designed for guys 5’9 and below. Trust me the rhino I started with was a model A compared to mid travel cars but the current day sxs’s have surpassed anything mid travel hands down on so many levels .
I stand by my comments, Less time and money maintenance wise on sxs’s vs most sand cars.
And don’t get me started on big cc VW’s , lol
A total rebuild on a 2180 each season is not “fun” in my book.
I’d rather be reloading lol
I’m comparing to a sand car, I go to glamis, not sure how that U4 would do in bowls? Curious to see how it does though.
 
Last edited:

LargeOrangeFont

We aren't happy until you aren't happy
Joined
Sep 4, 2015
Messages
49,690
Reaction score
76,151
@Wizard29

I too am wondering how your U4 car might do in sand? Might be closer to jeep levels of performance I would think? That does not seem like it's wheelhouse.

Or will you not take it in sand? I think you mentioned you had a sand car.
 

Wizard29

43' Eliminator
Joined
Apr 12, 2011
Messages
2,709
Reaction score
7,170
I would rebuild CV’s every three trips and and only run a sequential transaxle. 2D’s and equivalents are a joke with anything larger than a V6 in terms of strength/longevity.

...

I’d do oil changes every other trip, heim replacement every season.

Just my opinion, but that seems way excessive. I have a V8 car that no SxS has been able to keep up with in the dunes yet. To be fair, it could be a driver thing...36 years out there helps. Never been on the end of a rope (though it has towed in a lot of other cars) and has a 2D in it that I've gotten five years out of twice before the input shaft bearing needed to be replaced. Gear stacks and everything else looked perfect according to Rancho. CVs show minimal wear when I disassemble them every two years and are usually reused. Heims still solid and haven't needed to replace any in over 10 years. I do carry extras in the event of a wreck.

All I can figure is either mine is very well built or you would drive yours all out 100% of the time like you stole it.
 

Wizard29

43' Eliminator
Joined
Apr 12, 2011
Messages
2,709
Reaction score
7,170
@Wizard29

I too am wondering how your U4 car might do in sand? Might be closer to jeep levels of performance I would think? That does not seem like it's wheelhouse.

Or will you not take it in sand? I think you mentioned you had a sand car.

I'm interested to see that as well, but don't know when I'll get the opportunity or if I'll try. I'd have to buy paddles for it. Previous owner says it does well in sand (sand being one of the Ultra "4" terrains it was built for), but I doubt it would do as well as my sand rail. With 650HP, I imagine it would pull well. It also wouldn't fold up if I hit a witches' eye like some of my SxS friends. ;)

Yes, I do have a sand car, which I referenced in my post above to LowRiver2. Again, a purpose built vehicle for what I need it to do.
 

Wizard29

43' Eliminator
Joined
Apr 12, 2011
Messages
2,709
Reaction score
7,170
He uses his SxS for that :D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D

Ugh. How dare you. That's a big negative, sir. No SXS has been able to keep up without cutting corners. One Can Am 2 seater that tried stuffed it and bent the shit out of his front end.

IMG_0199.JPG
 

MK1MOD0

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jun 4, 2019
Messages
3,429
Reaction score
6,635
@Wizard29

I too am wondering how your U4 car might do in sand? Might be closer to jeep levels of performance I would think? That does not seem like it's wheelhouse.
Or will you not take it in sand? I think you mentioned you had a sand car.


I’ve seen a few U4’s in the sand. They were hauling ass. I believe they had a set of paddles in the rear and were scootin !!
 

DaveH

Well-Known Member
Joined
Sep 9, 2008
Messages
2,536
Reaction score
3,380
look i get the versatility of the SxS with 4wd.

but if sand is your thing.......no SxS is going to be as fun as a purpose built buggy. and it doesnt have to be some 250k car either.

I for one am GLAD that SxS's have taken over. Why? because the dunes dont get half as tore up as when everyone and their mother had a big V8 car.

give me a SCU or SU lightwieght buggy with a turbo Subie in it.....and there wont be a SxS anywhere in Glamis that will keep up or be as fun to drive.

sure big heavy badass cars are fun at the hill and drags.....but if duning is your thing....you arent going to beat a light weight buggy out in the deep.
 

Wizard29

43' Eliminator
Joined
Apr 12, 2011
Messages
2,709
Reaction score
7,170
look i get the versatility of the SxS with 4wd.

but if sand is your thing.......no SxS is going to be as fun as a purpose built buggy. and it doesnt have to be some 250k car either.

I for one am GLAD that SxS's have taken over. Why? because the dunes dont get half as tore up as when everyone and their mother had a big V8 car.

give me a SCU or SU lightwieght buggy with a turbo Subie in it.....and there wont be a SxS anywhere in Glamis that will keep up or be as fun to drive.

sure big heavy badass cars are fun at the hill and drags.....but if duning is your thing....you arent going to beat a light weight buggy out in the deep.

I agree with everything here except being glad the SxS have taken over. Because of that lake lice of the dunes, visitation is through the roof and it's a challenge to get a good spot anymore without going out on a Wednesday. They've made Glamis accessible to just about everybody, which has overcrowded the place and directed a lot more government and treehugger attention to it. That's probably the main reason I have such a disdain for them and laugh every time I see one with 3.5 wheels attached.

But yeah, a light, agile sand rail will outrun the SxS every time. My car is a V8, but it's still light (no power steering or any of the complicated stuff) and does exceptionally well.
 

DaveH

Well-Known Member
Joined
Sep 9, 2008
Messages
2,536
Reaction score
3,380
I agree with everything here except being glad the SxS have taken over. Because of that lake lice of the dunes, visitation is through the roof and it's a challenge to get a good spot anymore without going out on a Wednesday. They've made Glamis accessible to just about everybody, which has overcrowded the place and directed a lot more government and treehugger attention to it. That's probably the main reason I have such a disdain for them and laugh every time I see one with 3.5 wheels attached.

But yeah, a light, agile sand rail will outrun the SxS every time. My car is a V8, but it's still light (no power steering or any of the complicated stuff) and does exceptionally well.
overcrowding started long before anyone ever heard of a SxS......i have been going for more then 30 years and have witnessed all of it. from the closures, to the wild parties at comp, birth of the drags that stemmed from comp and other closures....... the point is, sure, SxS's are just the latest fanciable toy that was previously dirt bikes, quads or buggies.

the craziness out there and the LEO presence that has come from it, has completely ended my desire to go on the holiday weekends. Now, we schedule or trips purposely on off weekends and avoid most of the crowds, lunacy, crowded camping and over zealous law enforcement.
 

RiverDave

In it to win it
Joined
Sep 13, 2007
Messages
123,251
Reaction score
150,684
This is like an HTM thread. People go beyond their limits and bad shit happens then the cars are poorly designed, dangerous, I would never ride in one etc etc etc. Then a white lightning SxS will show up and everyone will jump on his nuts.

People who push limits will eventually find it. Its not the cars, its the operators

LMAO!!

I was reading the comments "I'll never go in one of those death traps" and just laughing.. LOL. I know god damn well if they were up in my garage drinking beers and I said you want to run up the hill the answer would be "Hell yes."

RD
 

RiverDave

In it to win it
Joined
Sep 13, 2007
Messages
123,251
Reaction score
150,684
SXS are recreational vehicles, you have a race car. They are 2 different things. A well set up SXS will do a couple things (like technical trails) a little better than your U4. Unless it is a full race SXS I would not expect it to keep up with you at all in the straights, washes, and open desert.

Honestly I don't see that U4 keeping up with a Can Am.. LOL. These things are ridiculously fast now.

RD
 

Bpracing1127

Well-Known Member
Joined
May 31, 2012
Messages
10,021
Reaction score
12,902
Honestly I don't see that U4 keeping up with a Can Am.. LOL. These things are ridiculously fast now.

RD
Dave I agree, let’s see in this years Baja the total time for the utv vs U4. In fact the UTV are only a few hours slower than the trophy trucks.
 

buck35

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jan 27, 2015
Messages
5,934
Reaction score
5,579
Honestly I don't see that U4 keeping up with a Can Am.. LOL. (These things are ridiculously fast now. )

RD

I don't own one and have rolled eyes on both sides points in this topic, but you may have said the point of many here.
 

LowRiver2

Well-Known Member
Joined
Sep 20, 2007
Messages
8,928
Reaction score
16,632
Just my opinion, but that seems way excessive. I have a V8 car that no SxS has been able to keep up with in the dunes yet. To be fair, it could be a driver thing...36 years out there helps. Never been on the end of a rope (though it has towed in a lot of other cars) and has a 2D in it that I've gotten five years out of twice before the input shaft bearing needed to be replaced. Gear stacks and everything else looked perfect according to Rancho. CVs show minimal wear when I disassemble them every two years and are usually reused. Heims still solid and haven't needed to replace any in over 10 years. I do carry extras in the event of a wreck.

All I can figure is either mine is very well built or you would drive yours all out 100% of the time like you stole it.

I was comparing to a mid travel car pice wise it’s comparable to a mid travel car what I am saying is if I was going to do a sand car I’d wanna V-8 with more than 500 hp that’s just not in the cards for me .
Can you let your wife or an adult friend drive that 2-D and not have problems unless you have a lot of experience behind it ?
I can give the keys to my side by side to my wife or pretty much any adult and they’re not gonna break something by simply putting it in reverse at the wrong time.
I won’t pass you but you won’t leave me in the bowls either. And as said earlier , I go to Mammoth, Havasu, Big Bear, Ill take a hard pass on a 2D and your big car on mountain trails.

And yes paddles for the dunes

So Wizard29, you have a $50k U4 and a $50k sand car that was $65k+ new...

Paid $37k cash for mine, put another $800 into it.
Like it or not, you’re on a whole other level than most (good), but reality for most of us is one vehicle for off-road and both of your cars can’t do the all around which a sxs can, for a lot less $.
Not sure what your point was as you don’t even have the budget issues most have,
Lol.

2F4DAD24-65B7-489B-84FF-8A665DF56878.jpeg
 

Attachments

  • 95CF791B-BECF-4F3E-884B-4CF93CCCAAB4.jpeg
    95CF791B-BECF-4F3E-884B-4CF93CCCAAB4.jpeg
    172.3 KB · Views: 78
  • C1E6B99C-F3A6-4D72-9BCB-7BC84C342436.jpeg
    C1E6B99C-F3A6-4D72-9BCB-7BC84C342436.jpeg
    246.2 KB · Views: 75
  • 61298FF5-38E5-4D46-86FC-DB67DE7C873C.jpeg
    61298FF5-38E5-4D46-86FC-DB67DE7C873C.jpeg
    208.7 KB · Views: 76
  • D14294D8-0A69-4F7D-A53D-EAA47B6608FF.jpeg
    D14294D8-0A69-4F7D-A53D-EAA47B6608FF.jpeg
    170.2 KB · Views: 79
Last edited:

LargeOrangeFont

We aren't happy until you aren't happy
Joined
Sep 4, 2015
Messages
49,690
Reaction score
76,151
Honestly I don't see that U4 keeping up with a Can Am.. LOL. These things are ridiculously fast now.

RD

Open desert or a long wide wash would be the only place around Havasu where you might hold up a U4 car in a SXS.
 

RVRKID

Well-Known Member
Joined
Oct 17, 2007
Messages
6,062
Reaction score
5,627
I was comparing to a mid travel car pice wise it’s comparable to a mid travel car what I am saying is if I was going to do a sand car I’d wanna V-8 with more than 500 hp that’s just not in the cards for me .
Can you let your wife or an adult friend drive that 2-D and not have problems unless you have a lot of experience behind it ?
I can give the keys to my side by side to my wife or pretty much any adult and they’re not gonna break something by simply putting it in reverse at the wrong time.
I won’t pass you but you won’t leave me in the bowls either. And as said earlier , I go to Mammoth, Havasu, Big Bear, Ill take a hard pass on a 2D and your big car on mountain trails.

And yes paddles for the dunes

So Wizard29, you have a $50k U4 and a $50k sand car that was $65k+ new...

Paid $37k cash for mine, put another $800 into it.
Like it or not, you’re on a whole other level than most (good), but reality for most of us is one vehicle for off-road and both of your cars can’t do the all around which a sxs can, for a lot less $.
Not sure what your point was as you don’t even have the budget issues most have,
Lol.

View attachment 814402
Great points, I was going to ask on here if I should tell my 8 year old we are selling the RZR and not going camping with our friends because they are so horrible.

BTW How's the new mattress and did you get everything on your list?:)
 

LowRiver2

Well-Known Member
Joined
Sep 20, 2007
Messages
8,928
Reaction score
16,632
Great points, I was going to ask on here if I should tell my 8 year old we are selling the RZR and not going camping with our friends because they are so horrible.

BTW How's the new mattress and did you get everything on your list?:)
New mattress with with topper is excellent the list is never complete ha ha
 

Wizard29

43' Eliminator
Joined
Apr 12, 2011
Messages
2,709
Reaction score
7,170
I was comparing to a mid travel car pice wise it’s comparable to a mid travel car what I am saying is if I was going to do a sand car I’d wanna V-8 with more than 500 hp that’s just not in the cards for me .
Can you let your wife or an adult friend drive that 2-D and not have problems unless you have a lot of experience behind it ?
I can give the keys to my side by side to my wife or pretty much any adult and they’re not gonna break something by simply putting it in reverse at the wrong time.
I won’t pass you but you won’t leave me in the bowls either. And as said earlier , I go to Mammoth, Havasu, Big Bear, Ill take a hard pass on a 2D and your big car on mountain trails.

And yes paddles for the dunes

So Wizard29, you have a $50k U4 and a $50k sand car that was $65k+ new...

Paid $37k cash for mine, put another $800 into it.
Like it or not, you’re on a whole other level than most (good), but reality for most of us is one vehicle for off-road and both of your cars can’t do the all around which a sxs can, for a lot less $.
Not sure what your point was as you don’t even have the budget issues most have,
Lol.

View attachment 814402

I actually paid less for the U4 than you did for your SxS.

I can "toss the keys" to anybody on it and can be very confident they won't break anything. As far as I know, it'll haul ass in the sand (as someone else mentioned above), so based on that, it appears it is a great all around vehicle...for less than you paid. It just happens that it is more of a purpose built vehicle for the hard pack than a SxS is. The fact that I plan to use the U4 for hard pack and the rail for sand is really kind of irrelevant. Yes, I am fortunate to be able to have both.

It's funny how the conversation has evolved from a comparison on performance, reliability and safety to, "Oh yeah? Well, the SxS is the better all around vehicle." That may or may not be true, but the fact of the matter is that based on how many SxS I've seen folded up both in the dunes and on hard pack, they are clearly not up to the limits some folks try to push them to. Maybe not the best "all around" vehicle? Argue that point all you guys like, but based on all of the internet topics and everything I've seen in person, the truth is there. I've never seen any other types of vehicles in large numbers turn into bent up heaps when things go sideways. Hell, there's even another topic on here right now specifically about SXS rollovers. Don't think I'd want a vehicle that was so prone to such a thing.

Anyway, my main point to you was that the maintenance you suggested would be excessive unless you were completely running the absolute shit out of the car for an entire weekend solid. That perspective comes from someone who owns and maintains (on his own) a car similar to what you described. Oil changes every other trip...CV rebuilds every third trip...New heims every season. Not sure why that would be necessary?
 

Bpracing1127

Well-Known Member
Joined
May 31, 2012
Messages
10,021
Reaction score
12,902
I actually paid less for the U4 than you did for your SxS.

I can "toss the keys" to anybody on it and can be very confident they won't break anything. As far as I know, it'll haul ass in the sand (as someone else mentioned above), so based on that, it appears it is a great all around vehicle...for less than you paid. It just happens that it is more of a purpose built vehicle for the hard pack than a SxS is. The fact that I plan to use the U4 for hard pack and the rail for sand is really kind of irrelevant. Yes, I am fortunate to be able to have both.

It's funny how the conversation has evolved from a comparison on performance, reliability and safety to, "Oh yeah? Well, the SxS is the better all around vehicle." That may or may not be true, but the fact of the matter is that based on how many SxS I've seen folded up both in the dunes and on hard pack, they are clearly not up to the limits some folks try to push them to. Maybe not the best "all around" vehicle? Argue that point all you guys like, but based on all of the internet topics and everything I've seen in person, the truth is there. I've never seen any other types of vehicles in large numbers turn into bent up heaps when things go sideways. Hell, there's even another topic on here right now specifically about SXS rollovers. Don't think I'd want a vehicle that was so prone to such a thing.

Anyway, my main point to you was that the maintenance you suggested would be excessive unless you were completely running the absolute shit out of the car for an entire weekend solid. That perspective comes from someone who owns and maintains (on his own) a car similar to what you described. Oil changes every other trip...CV rebuilds every third trip...New heims every season. Not sure why that would be necessary?
I bet I’ll beat you from havasu to Alamo lake! 90 miles
 

Bpracing1127

Well-Known Member
Joined
May 31, 2012
Messages
10,021
Reaction score
12,902
Would that be a challenge based on fuel range?
Doesn’t matter it’s a 90 mile challenge. It’s 90 miles because that’s how far Alamo lake is. I can make it 110 miles or so on fuel.
 

LowRiver2

Well-Known Member
Joined
Sep 20, 2007
Messages
8,928
Reaction score
16,632
I actually paid less for the U4 than you did for your SxS.

I can "toss the keys" to anybody on it and can be very confident they won't break anything. As far as I know, it'll haul ass in the sand (as someone else mentioned above), so based on that, it appears it is a great all around vehicle...for less than you paid. It just happens that it is more of a purpose built vehicle for the hard pack than a SxS is. The fact that I plan to use the U4 for hard pack and the rail for sand is really kind of irrelevant. Yes, I am fortunate to be able to have both.

It's funny how the conversation has evolved from a comparison on performance, reliability and safety to, "Oh yeah? Well, the SxS is the better all around vehicle." That may or may not be true, but the fact of the matter is that based on how many SxS I've seen folded up both in the dunes and on hard pack, they are clearly not up to the limits some folks try to push them to. Maybe not the best "all around" vehicle? Argue that point all you guys like, but based on all of the internet topics and everything I've seen in person, the truth is there. I've never seen any other types of vehicles in large numbers turn into bent up heaps when things go sideways. Hell, there's even another topic on here right now specifically about SXS rollovers. Don't think I'd want a vehicle that was so prone to such a thing.

Anyway, my main point to you was that the maintenance you suggested would be excessive unless you were completely running the absolute shit out of the car for an entire weekend solid. That perspective comes from someone who owns and maintains (on his own) a car similar to what you described. Oil changes every other trip...CV rebuilds every third trip...New heims every season. Not sure why that would be necessary?

This isn’t about the U4, which will be interesting in a big bowl transitions. It’s about your sand car vs a sxs. You avoided the 2D question. Very surprised if you’d let anyone jump in it and cruise the flats , let alone the baby dunes, without concern that trans is going to suffer damage with a novice. I’m sorry, Your level of maintenance works for driving gently and few actual trips with 650hp. Sand gets in everything and driving a sand car hard will cause failure with that level of maintenance , but you are the exception.
The U4:
Four seater? No. It’s has it’s purpose but to say it’s going to keep up in big bowls is
Going to be interesting.
You have two specialized cars for two different terrains. Most of us can’t afford that so we go with the vehicle that can do most of it at a decent pace, and with lower maintenance costs.
SXS’s aren’t better than specialized cars, but if you can only have one, it’s a reasonable choice.
As for being a death trap? Nah, driver skill and common sense can keep one out of the hospital, and the repair shop, more times than not.
 

LargeOrangeFont

We aren't happy until you aren't happy
Joined
Sep 4, 2015
Messages
49,690
Reaction score
76,151
This isn’t about the U4, which will be interesting in a big bowl transitions. It’s about your sand car vs a sxs. You avoided the 2D question. Very surprised if you’d let anyone jump in it and cruise the flats , let alone the baby dunes, without concern that trans is going to suffer damage with a novice. I’m sorry, Your level of maintenance works for driving gently and few actual trips with 650hp. Sand gets in everything and driving a sand car hard will cause failure with that level of maintenance , but you are the exception.
The U4:
Four seater? No. It’s has it’s purpose but to say it’s going to keep up in big bowls is
Going to be interesting.
You have two specialized cars for two different terrains. Most of us can’t afford that so we go with the vehicle that can do most of it at a decent pace, and with lower maintenance costs.
SXS’s aren’t better than specialized cars, but if you can only have one, it’s a reasonable choice.
As for being a death trap? Nah, driver skill and common sense can keep one out of the hospital, and the repair shop, more times than not.

I think his car has a 4L80 in it.. I have no idea why he keeps referencing that SXS crash often. You see them crash because there are 100,000 plus units out there. If there were 100,000 U4s out there there would be just as many crashed with just as many injuries.

He is just trying to rationalize his purchase of a race car as a better one than a recreational SXS car. It may be better for him, it is not better for everyone. I get the premise as I always try to get the best bang for my buck in a hobby, but a race car requires more time and effort than I want to deal with when am there to have fun.

@Bpracing1127 made this point - At last years Baja 1000 the first place U4 finished only 1 hour ahead of the 1st place SXS. The U4 easily cost 3X-5X as much as the SXS. The average speeds are pretty close to finish within an hour of each other over 1000 miles.. food for thought. Either U4s suck because it almost got beat by a golf cart.. or the golf carts have become pretty capable.

Comparing a race car to a recreational UTV is nearly a pointless debate anyway. They are completely different.
 
Last edited:

Wizard29

43' Eliminator
Joined
Apr 12, 2011
Messages
2,709
Reaction score
7,170
Doesn’t matter it’s a 90 mile challenge. It’s 90 miles because that’s how far Alamo lake is. I can make it 110 miles or so on fuel.

Okay, thought you were going to make a point about fuel range. I can do roughly 160 miles.

I'm never in Havasu or that area, but if I end up there, we can take a shot at it. What's the route? I'd be interested to see it.
 

Wizard29

43' Eliminator
Joined
Apr 12, 2011
Messages
2,709
Reaction score
7,170
This isn’t about the U4, which will be interesting in a big bowl transitions. It’s about your sand car vs a sxs. You avoided the 2D question. Very surprised if you’d let anyone jump in it and cruise the flats , let alone the baby dunes, without concern that trans is going to suffer damage with a novice. I’m sorry, Your level of maintenance works for driving gently and few actual trips with 650hp. Sand gets in everything and driving a sand car hard will cause failure with that level of maintenance , but you are the exception.
The U4:
Four seater? No. It’s has it’s purpose but to say it’s going to keep up in big bowls is
Going to be interesting.
You have two specialized cars for two different terrains. Most of us can’t afford that so we go with the vehicle that can do most of it at a decent pace, and with lower maintenance costs.
SXS’s aren’t better than specialized cars, but if you can only have one, it’s a reasonable choice.
As for being a death trap? Nah, driver skill and common sense can keep one out of the hospital, and the repair shop, more times than not.

No, I wouldn't let anybody drive my rail that wasn't an experienced driver. Nor would you let just anybody take your SxS over big bowl transitions.

My point was that amount of maintenance seems overkill to me. If it's actually needed to that extent not in a severe racing environment, then whoever is driving it isn't a very good driver.
 

LargeOrangeFont

We aren't happy until you aren't happy
Joined
Sep 4, 2015
Messages
49,690
Reaction score
76,151
Okay, thought you were going to make a point about fuel range. I can do roughly 160 miles.

I'm never in Havasu or that area, but if I end up there, we can take a shot at it. What's the route? I'd be interested to see it.

Havasu off roading is where your U4 will absolutely be slower than a SXS ans it is too technical, and the obstacles are too big to just cut across them. That is not to say would not have fun there but ask anyone that has actually had an off road car though there. Unless it is very specific routes, a SXS is the best thing there and really can't be touched by a larger/heavier vehicle.
 

Wizard29

43' Eliminator
Joined
Apr 12, 2011
Messages
2,709
Reaction score
7,170
The U4 easily cost 3X-5X as much as the SXS.

Doesn't seem so in this case, does it? :p

Look, I know I'm in the minority here and that's fine. The endless topics of wrecked SxS is all the evidence one needs though. They aren't up to the task. Fun with the family, yes, in most cases. Hauling ass and trying to tackle all sorts of desert terrain quickly? Nope.
 

RiverDave

In it to win it
Joined
Sep 13, 2007
Messages
123,251
Reaction score
150,684
Ever ride in a U4 Dave?

I haven't... I was just joking around.

I think you doing the U4 deal is pretty bad ass, and something that I'll probably consider for my next offroad vehicle. That said I think you are seriously discounting the performance and capabilities of a built canned ham.

If you ever bring your car down here I'd love to go for a putt putt in it!

All the arguments don't really mean shit to me, because my deal most likely won't ever see more than 30 mph anyways.. LOL. I just cruise around.

RD
 

LargeOrangeFont

We aren't happy until you aren't happy
Joined
Sep 4, 2015
Messages
49,690
Reaction score
76,151
Doesn't seem so in this case, does it? :p

Look, I know I'm in the minority here and that's fine. The endless topics of wrecked SxS is all the evidence one needs though. They aren't up to the task. Fun with the family, yes, in most cases. Hauling ass and trying to tackle all sorts of desert terrain quickly? Nope.

A wrecked SxS has nothing to do with the terrain it can traverse.

My used UTV was half what your used U4 cost :)

Come to Havasu, I'll give you a the route from the south side of town to Hangar 24 for lunch. It will be like a 30 mile ride. Throw your GF and your 2 dogs in your U4. I'll bring my wife in my RZR.

$500 to who gets to lunch first and we can discuss how quickly you tackled all sorts of terrain after you pay me :)
 

LowRiver2

Well-Known Member
Joined
Sep 20, 2007
Messages
8,928
Reaction score
16,632
No, I wouldn't let anybody drive my rail that wasn't an experienced driver. Nor would you let just anybody take your SxS over big bowl transitions.

My point was that amount of maintenance seems overkill to me. If it's actually needed to that extent not in a severe racing environment, then whoever is driving it isn't a very good driver.

First . I said the flats or baby dunes, so we both know you know the 2D is a massive liability to break with 650 hp.
I would of passed on the U4 and upgraded to a sequential but hey, it works for you, the only one who can drive it.

I’ve had dozens of friends running V8 sand cars and all subscribe to that maintenance.
As stated, you either rarely drive the sand car, drive slowly , or are the unicorn with a 0 issue sand car.

Good for you, you beat some very big odds, lol
 

Wizard29

43' Eliminator
Joined
Apr 12, 2011
Messages
2,709
Reaction score
7,170
I haven't... I was just joking around.

I think you doing the U4 deal is pretty bad ass, and something that I'll probably consider for my next offroad vehicle. That said I think you are seriously discounting the performance and capabilities of a built canned ham.

If you ever bring your car down here I'd love to go for a putt putt in it!

All the arguments don't really mean shit to me, because my deal most likely won't ever see more than 30 mph anyways.. LOL. I just cruise around.

RD

Deal. If I'm ever in Havasu with it, I'll let you know.

I acknowledge the canned hams have come a long way. I'm impressed my friend keeps up with us in the dunes like he does. If I step it up, I can lose him though with not too much effort. They just fall short for me, but seem like they are perfect for others like you who pretty much cruise. I usually just cruise too, but it's nice to have solid capability if I decide to hit it.

The arguments don't mean too much to me either. Makes the day go by though!
 

Wizard29

43' Eliminator
Joined
Apr 12, 2011
Messages
2,709
Reaction score
7,170
A wrecked SxS has nothing to do with the terrain it can traverse.

My used UTV was half what your used U4 cost :)

Come to Havasu, I'll give you a the route from the south side of town to Hangar 24 for lunch. It will be like a 30 mile ride. Throw your GF and your 2 dogs in your U4. I'll bring my wife in my RZR.

$500 to who gets to lunch first and we can discuss how quickly you tackled all sorts of terrain after you pay me :)

If I'm ever in Havasu with it, I'll let you know. I have to see what is so incredibly technical there that would make my car at only 11" wider and with a ton more horsepower that much slower.
 

Wizard29

43' Eliminator
Joined
Apr 12, 2011
Messages
2,709
Reaction score
7,170
First . I said the flats or baby dunes, so we both know you know the 2D is a massive liability to break with 650 hp.
I would of passed on the U4 and upgraded to a sequential but hey, it works for you, the only one who can drive it.

I’ve had dozens of friends running V8 sand cars and all subscribe to that maintenance.
As stated, you either rarely drive the sand car, drive slowly , or are the unicorn with a 0 issue sand car.

Good for you, you beat some very big odds, lol

You're all mixed up. I think even LOF is having a hard time following what you're saying by the fact he mentioned my car has a 4l80.

U4: 650HP V8, 4l80 manual valve body trans.

Sand rail: Rougly 500HP V8 and 2D trans.

I would let people that I trust drive the U4. It's pretty much bulletproof.

I would not let very many people drive the rail because yes, the trans has to be shifted manually with a clutch and can be damaged if operated incorrectly.

Pass on the U4 and upgrade to a sequential? Not sure I follow. Why would I not get the U4, which is my hard pack vehicle and get a sequential trans in the rail instead?

Back to the rail...either it's set up correctly or I know how to drive it corectly or both because that's been my maintenance program for the last 13 years I've had the car and I haven't been stuck in the dunes once. I do drive it hard enough to ditch SxS.

Wizard29<------Unicorn. Apparently.
 

riverroyal

Well-Known Member
Joined
Nov 4, 2007
Messages
13,895
Reaction score
18,375
I’ve never been hurt in a SxS
I did break my arm on a skateboard a few years. They should be outlawed.
Also broke about 10 bones on jetskies. Ban those also. I broke my big toe on my bbq, ban that also.
As a young lad I broke I broke my nose on a big wheel. Get rid them also.
My quad f’d me up a few times also
I dodged many bullets with the shifter cart phase I went through .

SxS might be the safest thing I’ve ever done.
 

LargeOrangeFont

We aren't happy until you aren't happy
Joined
Sep 4, 2015
Messages
49,690
Reaction score
76,151
If I'm ever in Havasu with it, I'll let you know. I have to see what is so incredibly technical there that would make my car at only 11" wider and with a ton more horsepower that much slower.

It is is not about the horsepower, it’s about the agility, The extra power is not an advantage, maintaining momentum is.

Im not saying I’d beat you by an hour or anything.. I’d just be faster.
 

Riverfamlee

Well-Known Member
Joined
Aug 1, 2019
Messages
2,044
Reaction score
4,886
I’ve never been hurt in a SxS
I did break my arm on a skateboard a few years. They should be outlawed.
Also broke about 10 bones on jetskies. Ban those also. I broke my big toe on my bbq, ban that also.
As a young lad I broke I broke my nose on a big wheel. Get rid them also.
My quad f’d me up a few times also
I dodged many bullets with the shifter cart phase I went through .

SxS might be the safest thing I’ve ever done.

LMFAO!!! That was great
 

Wizard29

43' Eliminator
Joined
Apr 12, 2011
Messages
2,709
Reaction score
7,170
It is is not about the horsepower, it’s about the agility, The extra power is not an advantage, maintaining momentum is.

Im not saying I’d beat you by an hour or anything.. I’d just be faster.

Describe technical to me. Is it a bunch of 90 degree turns or something? You guys apparently run down there all the time. I don't know what's there.

I do know what is up in NV where I usually run and can say that even though the trails have some sharp turns, are narrow, and give regular vehicles desert pinstriping, a SxS is going to have a real tough time keeping up with me.
 

Wizard29

43' Eliminator
Joined
Apr 12, 2011
Messages
2,709
Reaction score
7,170
@Wizard29 how tall is that damn thing? I saw one in Calico and it looked huge.

80 inches. They do look imposing because of the 40 inch tires and slightly wider stance, but mine is not that much wider than a SxS and in some cases has a shorter wheelbase.
 

LowRiver2

Well-Known Member
Joined
Sep 20, 2007
Messages
8,928
Reaction score
16,632
You're all mixed up. I think even LOF is having a hard time following what you're saying by the fact he mentioned my car has a 4l80.

U4: 650HP V8, 4l80 manual valve body trans.

Sand rail: Rougly 500HP V8 and 2D trans.

I would let people that I trust drive the U4. It's pretty much bulletproof.

I would not let very many people drive the rail because yes, the trans has to be shifted manually with a clutch and can be damaged if operated incorrectly.

Pass on the U4 and upgrade to a sequential? Not sure I follow. Why would I not get the U4, which is my hard pack vehicle and getBack to the rail...either it's set up correctly or I know how to drive it corectly or both because that's been my maintenance program for the last 13 years I've had the car and I haven't been stuck in the dunes once. I do drive it hard enough to ditch SxS.

Wizard29<------Unicorn. Apparently.


My point is the 2D
It is a weak link you can’t fix in the dunes like a belt

have fun with the U4

You have 2 specialized cars, most can afford one, and the sxs works.
Take a poll on maintenance costs of a sand car are less or even equal a sxs and show me wrong. Too many of us here that grew up around both to see the difference.
 

LargeOrangeFont

We aren't happy until you aren't happy
Joined
Sep 4, 2015
Messages
49,690
Reaction score
76,151
Describe technical to me. Is it a bunch of 90 degree turns or something? You guys apparently run down there all the time. I don't know what's there.

I do know what is up in NV where I usually run and can say that even though the trails have some sharp turns, are narrow, and give regular vehicles desert pinstriping, a SxS is going to have a real tough time keeping up with me.

The trails are technical, high speed sweepers, switchbacks, elevation changes, blind hills and ledges. The problem is that a lot of the time you’ll want to follow the trail.. there can be a lot of debris and bushes/trees and large rocks.

Some of it is open, you could cut just through, but there might be a wash or ravine you’ll run into. that’s gonna stop or slow you way down.. or end your day if you get ahead of yourself.

Some washes are open. Some have a couple parallel trails down them but they are littered with debris you’d want to avoid - trees, large rocks or a sheer wall.

Again you’ll get through, you’ll be a bull in a china shop through a lot of sections, where you need to be careful you’ll have to be extra careful... I don’t think you want to run into a random tree at 40..

You’ll make up time where you can open it up.

To put it in perspective last weekend there was a race truck testing out there and had a SXS chasing him and it was keeping up fine.
 

Kylemenz1

Well-Known Member
Joined
Sep 10, 2009
Messages
3,239
Reaction score
1,146
I’ve never been hurt in a SxS
I did break my arm on a skateboard a few years. They should be outlawed.
Also broke about 10 bones on jetskies. Ban those also. I broke my big toe on my bbq, ban that also.
As a young lad I broke I broke my nose on a big wheel. Get rid them also.
My quad f’d me up a few times also
I dodged many bullets with the shifter cart phase I went through .

SxS might be the safest thing I’ve ever done.

Yes! Ban SxS’ quads, jet skis, and go carts.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

Wizard29

43' Eliminator
Joined
Apr 12, 2011
Messages
2,709
Reaction score
7,170
The trails are technical, high speed sweepers, switchbacks, elevation changes, blind hills and ledges. The problem is that a lot of the time you’ll want to follow the trail.. there can be a lot of debris and bushes/trees and large rocks.

Some of it is open, you could cut just through, but there might be a wash or ravine you’ll run into. that’s gonna stop or slow you way down.. or end your day if you get ahead of yourself.

Some washes are open. Some have a couple parallel trails down them but they are littered with debris you’d want to avoid - trees, large rocks or a sheer wall.

Again you’ll get through, you’ll be a bull in a china shop through a lot of sections, where you need to be careful you’ll have to be extra careful... I don’t think you want to run into a random tree at 40..

You’ll make up time where you can open it up.

To put it in perspective last weekend there was a race truck testing out there and had a SXS chasing him and it was keeping up fine.

Sounds like fun. Seems like you run that route often? I'll have to get down there some day. Havasu isn't my 'hood...not even for going to the river.
 

LargeOrangeFont

We aren't happy until you aren't happy
Joined
Sep 4, 2015
Messages
49,690
Reaction score
76,151
Sounds like fun. Seems like you run that route often? I'll have to get down there some day. Havasu isn't my 'hood...not even for going to the river.

You’d like it, it is a super fun area to off road, and there is tons I have yet to explore as well.
 
Top