Ford vs Ferrari

[Singleton]

I gotta ask, why are the tires wrapped in cellophane on the Red # 1 car ? Keep the grass stains off ?

Because the golf course they are on, costs over $500 a round to play and cars marking up the fairways and greens would kill that.

 

[Taboma]

Because the golf course they are on, costs over $500 a round to play and cars marking up the fairways and greens would kill that.

So spinning a few donuts in the RZR would get you shot, lol

 

[coolchange]

@cakemoto would be the resident expert on that anyway.

 

[coolchange]

So spinning a few donuts in the RZR would get you shot, lol

You wouldn't get within a country mile of that place on a razor LOL.

 

[KevinR]

Holy shimoly what amazing pics. GT 40 heaven!

 

[Wheeler]

 

[Taboma]

What is that place and why is the wall and floor area completely covered in cobras and Shelby cars ?

 

[Wheeler]

What is that place and why is the wall and floor area completely covered in cobras and Shelby cars ?

Bill Denbeste Motorsports.

I don't know which cars are new or what cars are originals from the 60's.

https://denbestemotorsports.com

 

[PlanB]

Nice pics. The cobras on the racks are tagged with CSX 4000 and 6000 series numbers. If correct, that would make them modern continuation cars. The originals are 2000 and 3000 series.

 

[Wheeler]

https://www.sportscardigest.com/a-good-car-guy-is-hard-to-find-a-girls-memoir/

 

[Wheeler]

 

[Wheeler]

This is the prototype for the GT40, took pictures at Laguna Seca last year.
View attachment 823092
View attachment 823093

 

[oldschool]

Just saw the movie, it is kick ass!

 

[oldschool]

So theoretically, if someone where to put a Holman Moody 427 in some type of non OG Cobra is that a thumbs up or down?

 

[Wheeler]

So theoretically, if someone where to put a Holman Moody 427 in some type of non OG Cobra is that a thumbs up or down?

Two thumbs up!

 

[beaverretriever]

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Lynn Park in photo number nine!

 

[Wheeler]

Lynn Park in photo number nine!

He looks different without his hat.

 

[Wheeler]

 

[One2go]

He looks different without his hat.

View attachment 825620

Funny story of my meeting Lynn Park
So got a call few years ago from a guy was interested in doing a new roof on his "garage".Went out to check it out and guy opens door says"hi I'm Lynn Park". Didn't know his story but we talked about what he wanted,
Had a huge barn/garage behind his house that had the original wood shake roof on it from the 70s.Roof was leaking and needed replaced for sure.Measured it and gave him the price,he says go ahead asap.Told him my office would send him a contract and we would be there in 3-4 weeks.Shook hands that was that. Except when we reroof garages with wood shakes a shit load crap falls between the spaced sheathing boards. I said Mr Park "is there anything inside that is going be harmed by this if so we can bring old tarps". Lynn says well lets take a look.
When he opened the door my jaw hit the floor! Was at least 10 or more of the rarest shelbys ive seen.
I pointed out the fact that there number 1 ,wasn't plywood only spaced sheathing and number 2,all those priceless cars would need to be moved. He hadn't even thought of the crap that was going to be falling. Anyways everything worked out great and him and his wife were the nicest people.

Going this weekend to see it ...cant wait.

 

[playdeep]

So theoretically, if someone where to put a Holman Moody 427 in some type of non OG Cobra is that a thumbs up or down?

2 thumbs up...
Good luck finding a H-M 427...tho.

 

[Wheeler]

Funny story of my meeting Lynn Park
him and his wife were the nicest people.

Going this weekend to see it ...cant wait.

Nice story. Thanks for sharing it with us!


Is this the garage? If so, looks nice!

 

[oldschool]

2 thumbs up...
Good luck finding a H-M 427...tho.

2 thumbs up...
Good luck finding a H-M 427...tho.

Already have one. It’s been in my dads Hallett since 1963.

 

[spectras only]

^^^
Is Nic's Son still around?

 

[rivermobster]

So theoretically, if someone where to put a Holman Moody 427 in some type of non OG Cobra is that a thumbs up or down?

Most of the cars in the movie were actually Superformance cars.

They normally have stroker 351W engines in em stroked to 418ci (but the valve covers all say 427). Nothing original about em. But they run like a bat outa hell. I service a couple of Cobra kit cars, Superformance and a Factory Five. They are actually built pretty nice.

https://www.superformance.com/

Check out the 1st splash on the front page. They gotta be selling like hotcakes now! lol

 

[beaverretriever]

Most of the cars in the movie were actually Superformance cars.

They normally have stroker 351W engines in em stroked to 418ci (but the valve covers all say 427). Nothing original about em. But they run like a bat outa hell. I service a couple of Cobra kit cars, Superformance and a Factory Five. They are actually built pretty nice.

https://www.superformance.com/

Check out the 1st splash on the front page. They gotta be selling like hotcakes now! lol

RCR http://race-car-replicas.com/ is getting almost no notoriety for all the builds they did. 28 cars total including all the Ferraris and many of the GT40s. The poster car is actually an RCR as you can tell by the driver's seat arrangement.

 

[rivermobster]

RCR http://race-car-replicas.com/ is getting almost no notoriety for all the builds they did. 28 cars total including all the Ferraris and many of the GT40s. The poster car is actually an RCR as you can tell by the driver's seat arrangement.

Nice. Have you worked on those cars? I've never had my hands on one of those deals.

 

[PlanB]

Superformance are not kit cars. The are fully built factory cars delivered minus motor and trans for legal reasons. Their is a shop in Anaheim that installs a lot of the motors and transmissions for locally sold cars. There are also other shops around the country that do the same. Also, most Superformance Cobra's, Coupes, and GT-40's are running Roush power. The Windsor based Roush stroker motors are stroked to 427 CI, so the valve covers are correct. Superformance offers GT-40's in both right and left hand drive.

If you are in the Irvine area you should go check out their shop and inventory.

 

[beaverretriever]

Nice. Have you worked on those cars? I've never had my hands on one of those deals.

I have never seen one in person that I know of however, they have a very good rep. I believe his name is Fran who owns the company and is very particular about building very good replicas.

 

[beaverretriever]

I would love to build a Cobra Daytona. I would absolutely love one of the Kirkham/ Shelby Continuation cars, but they start at 180k as a roller in aluminum. Just not really in my wheelhouse in terms of cost.

I would consider a Kirkham aluminum 289 FIA Cobra. They are the same thing as the Shelby without the continuation CSX number. I would never sell it so not having that number wouldn't really bother me. Plus I would save a ton of dough considering you can get in to a Kirkham 289 FIA car for about 99k for a full aluminum body. I would paint it Viking blue similar to Bob Bondurant's original car. I would do real 15" pin drives etc. No new school BS. Most people wouldn't be able to tell it wasn't an original.
https://www.kirkhammotorsports.com/price289fia.shtml

The 289 FIA cars are my favorite Cobras (except for the Daytona).They just look so bitchen. The 289 car is what won the majority of races through the 60s in the FIA car and the Daytona Coupe although the 427 is what most people think of when they think of a Cobra.

I will build a 67 TA Mustang in Shelby look when the time comes.

 

[PlanB]

Superformance also builds the continuation CSX cars.

https://performance.ford.com/enthusiasts/newsroom/2018/05/shelby-legendary-cars.html

 

[PlanB]

I would absolutely love one of the Kirkham/ Shelby Continuation cars, but they start at 180k as a roller in aluminum. Just not really in my wheelhouse in terms of cost.

The cost of these cars has increased a lot over the years. I bought my Superfromance in 06. At the time I could have bought an aluminum CSX Cobra with a Shelby FE (built by Roush) for about 180k complete. I also priced out a glass CSX with the same motor and it was about 120K. I ultimately decided I wanted a Cobra with a Roush stroker after driving both, and went with the Superformance MKIII. GT-40's back then were in the 170K range with Roush power. My car is worth more now than I actually paid for it. The increase has been pretty dramatic for the Cobra, Coupe and GT-40's.

 

[rivermobster]

Superformance are not kit cars. The are fully built factory cars delivered minus motor and trans for legal reasons. Their is a shop in Anaheim that installs a lot of the motors and transmissions for locally sold cars. There are also other shops around the country that do the same. Also, most Superformance Cobra's, Coupes, and GT-40's are running Roush power. The Windsor based Roush stroker motors are stroked to 427 CI, so the valve covers are correct. Superformance offers GT-40's in both right and left hand drive.

If you are in the Irvine area you should go check out their shop and inventory.

The one's that I have worked (2 Superformance and one Factory 5) on were not Roush powered cars. At least that's what the owners told me anyway, I'm pretty sure they knew what they had. Two of em had the 427 valve covers on em, so don't let the valve covers fool you!

As you stated, the owners can install whatever they want. At over 600+ HP, the 418 is no slouch...

https://www.hotrod.com/articles/0702phr-budget-418ci-windsor/

:thumbup:

 

[beaverretriever]

Superformance also builds the continuation CSX cars.

https://performance.ford.com/enthusiasts/newsroom/2018/05/shelby-legendary-cars.html

Yes you are right but they only build the fiberglass Cobra cars and GT40s. Kirkham out of Utah builds the aluminum stuff for Shelby. I think if I had the 100k to buy a fiberglass Superformance continuation Shelby I would just take that 100k and buy an aluminum Kirkham. The fiberglass CSX cars are cool but really don't hold their value and usually sell down the road for less than the original build cost. The Kirkhams surprisingly sell for what they have in them or more but are still a good 100k less than an aluminum new continuation car.

Honestly all out of my price range right now so it's all pipe dreams.

Of all the fiberglass replicas the ERA and Superformance cars are the nicest I would say.

 

[PlanB]

The one's that I have worked (2 Superformance and one Factory 5) on were not Roush powered cars. At least that's what the owners told me anyway, I'm pretty sure they knew what they had. Two of em had the 427 valve covers on em, so don't let the valve covers fool you!

As you stated, the owners can install whatever they want. At over 600+ HP, the 418 is no slouch...

https://www.hotrod.com/articles/0702phr-budget-418ci-windsor/

:thumbup:

True, you can install whatever you want. Lance is a Roush dealer though, so most of the cars sold through his Irvine location end up with Roush motors. Most of the people buying, are buying the complete car, and buy the motor, trans and install through Lance. Not saying you were not correct, just that a lot of the cars do actually have 427's in them.

 

[PlanB]

Yes you are right but they only build the fiberglass Cobra cars and GT40s. Kirkham out of Utah builds the aluminum stuff for Shelby. I think if I had the 100k to buy a fiberglass Superformance continuation Shelby I would just take that 100k and buy an aluminum Kirkham. The fiberglass CSX cars are cool but really don't hold their value and usually sell down the road for less than the original build cost. The Kirkhams surprisingly sell for what they have in them or more but are still a good 100k less than an aluminum new continuation car.

Honestly all out of my price range right now so it's all pipe dreams.

Of all the fiberglass replicas the ERA and Superformance cars are the nicest I would say.

I believe Superformance is the only company building CSX cars now. I believe Kirkham only supplies the bodies. I would have to talk to Lance, but that is what I understood from the last time I talked to him about it. When you order, you have the option of glass or aluminum.

https://www.superformance.com/factory-models/shelby

The downside of aluminum is having to be really careful with it. I had a dipshit in a Prius nick one of my wheels and fender with his bumper. It was almost 20k to fix it. One piece body body makes it hard to blend the paint, and the wheel set was $2700.00. If you dent an aluminum car it would be a PITA to fix. Their bodies are built in Poland by former Mig builders.

 

[beaverretriever]

I believe Superformance is the only company building CSX cars now. I believe Kirkham only supplies the bodies. I would have to talk to Lance, but that is what I understood from the last time I talked to him about it. When you order, you have the option of glass or aluminum.

https://www.superformance.com/factory-models/shelby

The downside of aluminum is having to be really careful with it. I had a dipshit in a Prius nick one of my wheels and fender with his bumper. It was almost 20k to fix it. One piece body body makes it hard to blend the paint, and the wheel set was $2700.00. If you dent an aluminum car it would be a PITA to fix. Their bodies are built in Poland by former Mig builders.

Is your car aluminum?!!! Yeah the original aluminum Cobras were very delicate and you wouldn't ever even want to lean on one. The new ones have a thicker gauge build.

It's a little confusing for sure. But Superformance only truly build the fiberglass stuff for Shelby but yes, Superformance is Shelby Legendary Cars. It is still Kirkham (in Utah) which is the supplier of the aluminum CSX bodies including the slab side, 289 FIA, 427, SC and Daytona Coupe bodies. I believe all assembly of aluminum cars including the CSX1000 Series and GT350R continuation program are assembled in Vegas and is only sold to dealers through the Superformance/Shelby Legendary Cars network.

When David Kirkham started they went over to Poland and had a previous MIG factory do the tooling and manufacturing. Kirkham had a lot of issues dealing with Shelby for a long time but eventually they ironed stuff out and are the supplier to Shelby now for all the aluminum bodies. When the continuation cars came about Shelby did a very good job hiding who was manufacturing them (way prior to Superformance being involved), but it has always been Kirkham in terms of the aluminum bodies. My father and I both worked for a Kirkham and Shelby dealer for quite a while. I was in my early 20s and was just general laborer there, but my father ran the sales dept for some time.

The only difference between an aluminum Shelby and the Kirkham body is the Vin. Shelbys start with CSX (like the originals) and Kirkhams start with KC.

If you dig deep you will see Shelby Legendary Cars and Superformance a distributor (although doing manufacturing of fiberglass).
"Su p er formance LLC a l s o DBA Shelby Legendary Cars , is the distributor of all Superformance and Shelby trademarked products including the G T 4 0 MK I, MK II an d G T 4 0 R , MKII FIA an d U S R R C , MKII Slab Side, MKIII roadster, G.M Corvette Grand Sport."

 

[PlanB]

My car is not aluminum. I don't know if I could handle the stress of driving an aluminum CSX around all the idiots on the street.

I will have to talk to Lance about manufacturing. I know Vegas was having issues with the early CSX cars they were putting out. I was under the impression after talking to lance, that the CSX aluminum cars were build in their South Africa plant using Kirkham bodies. I know a lot changed in 05 when Shelby and Superformance became partners. It's hard to keep up with.

 

[beaverretriever]

My car is not aluminum. I don't know if I could handle the stress of driving an aluminum CSX around all the idiots on the street.

I will have to talk to Lance about manufacturing. I know Vegas was having issues with the early CSX cars they were putting out. I was under the impression after talking to lance, that the CSX aluminum cars were build in their South Africa plant using Kirkham bodies. I know a lot changed in 05 when Shelby and Superformance became partners. It's hard to keep up with.

Absolutely. It is confusing for sure. A recent 2018 Superformance PDF states that the Shelby cars are being produced in Vegas yet another Superformance article says they are building the cars in Irvine. I have no clue!!! I do see rollers being built in Vegas when I go by that facility. Who knows, maybe some work is being spread out. I know the new GT350R models are being built in Vegas as they wanted to hire my father to help with them.

 

[rivermobster]

True, you can install whatever you want. Lance is a Roush dealer though, so most of the cars sold through his Irvine location end up with Roush motors. Most of the people buying, are buying the complete car, and buy the motor, trans and install through Lance. Not saying you were not correct, just that a lot of the cars do actually have 427's in them.

All three of my customers bought their cars used. Fortunately, the sellers were honest, and had the documentation on the builds. The Factory 5 car was built by a father and son in their garage. That one needed a bit of work to make it truly road worthy!

Not everybody buys new.

 

[PlanB]

All three of my customers bought their cars used. Fortunately, the sellers were honest, and had the documentation on the builds. The Factory 5 car was built by a father and son in their garage. That one needed a bit of work to make it truly road worthy!

Not everybody buys new.

I get that. Just stating my observations regarding Superformance. I think I have only seen one with a non-Roush motor, and it was an FE. It's kind of like DCB back in the day when dave was a Teague dealer. Almost every boat with big power was rigged with a Teague.

 

[rivermobster]

I get that. Just stating my observations regarding Superformance. I think I have only seen one with a non-Roush motor, and it was an FE. It's kind of like DCB back in the day when dave was a Teague dealer. Almost every boat with big power was rigged with a Teague.

A REAL 427?? Bad azz. That one musta been worth a small fortune.

 

[One2go]

Nice story. Thanks for sharing it with us!


Is this the garage? If so, looks nice!

View attachment 825931 View attachment 825932

That's the one Wheeler!,Some great memorabilia in the garage to go along with the cars.

 

[oldschool]

So what’s the market on a used Cobra less motor, from lower level builder to high level builder. I don’t have a 100k budget for a hobby car.

 

[beaverretriever]

That's the one Wheeler!,Some great memorabilia in the garage to go along with the cars.

http://www.socalsaac.org/gallery-park.php

 

[beaverretriever]

So what’s the market on a used Cobra less motor, from lower level builder to high level builder. I don’t have a 100k budget for a hobby car.

You mean an original 60's CSX car? 250k to 5mil or so depending on history.

Kit wise you can pick up stuff super cheap. 15k to 25k will get you stuff that may need some work but will be complete.

Personally I feel the best kits are ERA and Superformance. Superformance used to be junk when they first came over to the states. They are now the standard in high quality replicas or continuation cars. However, if you buy one of the complete Factory Five kits or some of the others and do them right they can be ok. Factory Five gets a bad rap as people make it sound like it sits on a Fox body doner car chassis which isn't true. If you buy their base kit, it requires some stuff from a late model Mustang however, you can build them with whatever components you want. However, their Cobra Roadsters are known not to be within factory body demenions. I was told their Daytona Coupe is very close to an original in terms of geometry.

My problem with most kit cars is people bastardize them with so much aftermarket stupid stuff that completely sways them away of what real Cobra was ie, big wheels, LS engines, wrong size engines for the platform, bolt on wheels that are supposed to look like pin-drives with fact knock off caps, stupid colors etc, chrome Cobra Snake emblems all over tem etc etc, but to each their own I guess.

 

[oldschool]

You mean an original CSX car? 250k to 5mil or so depending on history.

If you mean a kit, you can pick up stuff super cheap. 15k to 25k will get you stuff that may need some work but will be complete.

Lol. Remember, I’m a Sanger guy(well, not yet), not a Super Air Nautique guy. So 15-25k is my range. Plus, I think it would be cool to put a real 427 in a car, even if it’s not the real deal car. I wouldn’t put anything from Pep Boys on it.

 

[beaverretriever]

Lol. Remember, I’m a Sanger guy(well, not yet), not a Super Air Nautique guy. So 15-25k is my range. Plus, I think it would be cool to put a real 427 in a car, even if it’s not the real deal car. I wouldn’t put anything from Pep Boys on it.

hahaha! Yeah me too. Champagne taste on a Diet Coke budget.

Yeah if you are going to build a 427 Roadster, only a big block will do. I know they drive better with a small block, but that just isn't original. Good luck on that 427 Side Oiler though! I know they are getting a pretty penny for them. You can always put a hopped up 390 in it as most people can't tell the difference. The stroke of the 390 and 427 are the same so their cranks, and rods are interchangeable. Cross bolted main and thin cyl walls on a 427. So if you do find one, make sure it hasn't been bored.

After I said all that above I forgot there are NEW 427s being built. I believe Dart and Shelby are making them.

I'm a small block guy so I would only build a 289 FIA car, plus the 289s are what won all the races!

 

[oldschool]

hahaha! Yeah me too. Champagne taste on a Diet Coke budget.

Yeah if you are going to build a 427 Roadster, only a big block will do. I know they drive better with a small block, but that just isn't original. Good luck on that 427 Side Oiler though! I know they are getting a pretty penny for them. You can always put a hopped up 390 in it as most people can't tell the difference. The stroke of the 390 and 427 are the same so their cranks, and rods are interchangeable. Cross bolted main and thin cyl walls on a 427. So if you do find one, make sure it hasn't been bored.

I have a H/M medium rise side oiler in my dads garage. Plan is to pull it out of the boat and he wants to go through the motor. He’s had it since 1963 or 1964. My mom bought the boat(Hallett flat) and motor for him as a birthday present.

 

[PlanB]

There was a Factory Five for sale recently in the Lake Havasu Classified (online) for 48K. It was a complete car that actually looked pretty clean. That's less than a roller from Superformance would cost. It would be easy to do a motor swap.

 

[beaverretriever]

There was a Factory Five for sale recently in the Lake Havasu Classified (online) for 48K. It was a complete car that actually looked pretty clean. That's less than a roller from Superformance would cost. It would be easy to do a motor swap.

Yeah FF get a bad rap, but I have seen some done nicely (and some horribly). Not as nice as your Superformance though; it looks super clean! What is the price of a MKIII roller?