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Which pool heater?

DrunkenSailor

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Probably gonna turn into a Ford vs Chevy debate but....

I am pricing out pool heaters. Pool is chlorine, kidney shaped and I am taking a shot in the dark at guessing it's around 20k gallons.

It's a sports pool 3 feet on each end and 5 feet deep in the middle. Has slightly elevated spa with spill.

I would take a picture but it's too damn dark out there... Winter sucks. Pool is 60 feet long, 19 feet across at the widest point 16 feet at the second widest point and 12 feet at the narrowest point. Spa is 6 feet around and 3 feet deep with a 3/4 way around bench.

Looking at 400k natural gas. Gas line already installed from old heater. Heater not currently in enclosure but would consider if it would increase longevity.

Use is to extend swimming season and heat the spa year round. I have small kids so we will not be doing a blanket.

Looking at raypak, heyward and starite.

I have heard that the starite is the most efficient which is attractive, heyward is kinda the f150 of pool heaters and I don't know much about raypack other than my pool guy thinks they are good.

What say the inmates?
 
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28Eliminator

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Hayward or Jandy.. don’t know anything about the others you mentioned.

They work.


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jet496

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Raypac all the way. I'm an HVAC contractor & we install a ton of these 400k pool heaters in our commercial buildings and they just run & run. I just replaced my pool heater with a 400k Raypac 5 years ago.
 

Mr. C

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Can Only go from personal experience. Had a pentair mini max 400 for 19 years. Only had an issue with the mother board once. No mechanical issues until it just wore out . Now have the pentair sta-rite max E therm 400. Zero issues going on 2 years.
IMG_2308.jpg



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DrunkenSailor

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Can Only go from personal experience. Had a pentair mini max 400 for 19 years. Only had an issue with the mother board once. No mechanical issues until it just wore out . Now have the pentair sta-rite max E therm 400. Zero issues going on 2 years.
View attachment 834701


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Hows the gas consumption on the starite?
 

GRADS

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I put my Hayward heater on my pool 20 years ago this July and on average have used it 1-4 times a week since than without even a hiccup.
 

Mr. C

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Hows the gas consumption on the starite?

I’ve never noticed a huge spike in my bill. Do notice it when heating the pool though. Again not a huge increase ( unless someone forgets to turn it off and it runs far a week [emoji33])Jacuzzi 6-700 gallons heats from about 60 to 101 degrees in less than half an hour. We only use it 4-5 times a month. Taking the chill off the pool (about 24k gallons) takes a few hours to go from mid 70s to 85 ish.


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GRADS

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I’ve never noticed a huge spike in my bill. Do notice it when heating the pool though. Again not a huge increase ( unless someone forgets to turn it off and it runs far a week [emoji33])Jacuzzi 6-700 gallons heats from about 60 to 101 degrees in less than half an hour. We only use it 4-5 times a month. Taking the chill off the pool (about 24k gallons) takes a few hours to go from mid 70s to 85 ish.
I'm having a tough time believing these numbers.
 

Melloyellovector

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I'm having a tough time believing these numbers.
60-101 in an average spa should take 41 minutes. Give or take a few. ( 1 deg per minute )
70-85 in a pool 24k gallon pool? A few hours? If a few means 8 plus, lol ( 1 deg per hour )

Raypak, rheem, Jandy, Hayward, starite/pentair

Raypak rheem are the same heater. One can be sold online the other can not. Sold by Trade only
Jandy is/was teledyne Laars.
Hayward is its own
Starite/pentair is identical heater inside cabinet. Only difference is the cabinet being r2d2 or a box
Lochinvar is another option, commercial heater that stepped down into residential world

All manufactures have their reasons why they are better. In my experience they are all pretty much same. They’re all pretty much equal quality. They all heat similar efficiency.

As far as what to use. If your replacing heater only. Look at space available for placement. Most all are smaller footprint then old school heaters.

Find out who has best warranty / service in your area. They’re all gonna work new. But if or when you have problem who can handle warranty and repairs quick.
 

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60-101 in an average spa should take 41 minutes. Give or take a few. ( 1 deg per minute )
70-85 in a pool 24k gallon pool? A few hours? If a few means 8 plus, lol ( 1 deg per hour )

Raypak, rheem, Jandy, Hayward, starite/pentair

Raypak rheem are the same heater. One can be sold online the other can not. Sold by Trade only
Jandy is/was teledyne Laars.
Hayward is its own
Starite/pentair is identical heater inside cabinet. Only difference is the cabinet being r2d2 or a box
Lochinvar is another option, commercial heater that stepped down into residential world

All manufactures have their reasons why they are better. In my experience they are all pretty much same. They’re all pretty much equal quality. They all heat similar efficiency.

As far as what to use. If your replacing heater only. Look at space available for placement. Most all are smaller footprint then old school heaters.

Find out who has best warranty / service in your area. They’re all gonna work new. But if or when you have problem who can handle warranty and repairs quick.
Totally agree.
 

G. Faulk

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Not a fan of Hayward equipment. I had issues with Hayward products mostly with there filters and heaters and have found there warranty is not up to par. Honestly the only thing I sell from Hayward occasionally is there leaf canisters.

I started to install Jandy heaters again about 2 years ago and have been very pleased in residential installations.

Pentair-Starite are good heaters I prefer the Max-E-Therm, same heater as the Mastertemp, I just like how 4 screws gets to the internals.

We install nothing but Raypak on our commercial pool-spa heater installations. They are my favorite but have a larger frame then the heaters above.

I've said this before on pool heater RDP threads, your gas supply-pressure inches of water column what ever you want to call it to understand needs to be checked on installation and in the ideal range. If your not able, have a professional calc out your gas line size, run, meter size, and if its on its own supply line directly from the meter. If not correct not only will your warranty get kicked out but I find this to be probably the one that takes longevity from your heater the most, second improper pool water chemical balance.

I feel the new heaters are not built to last. If you have ideal operating conditions at medium usage your lucky to get 9 years from the new style heaters or Low NOx.

My favorite heater ever the Teledyne Laars series one or two. Shitty efficiency but would operate non stop.

Hope this helps.
 

Mr. C

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60-101 in an average spa should take 41 minutes. Give or take a few. ( 1 deg per minute )
70-85 in a pool 24k gallon pool? A few hours? If a few means 8 plus, lol ( 1 deg per hour )

Raypak, rheem, Jandy, Hayward, starite/pentair

Raypak rheem are the same heater. One can be sold online the other can not. Sold by Trade only
Jandy is/was teledyne Laars.
Hayward is its own
Starite/pentair is identical heater inside cabinet. Only difference is the cabinet being r2d2 or a box
Lochinvar is another option, commercial heater that stepped down into residential world

All manufactures have their reasons why they are better. In my experience they are all pretty much same. They’re all pretty much equal quality. They all heat similar efficiency.

As far as what to use. If your replacing heater only. Look at space available for placement. Most all are smaller footprint then old school heaters.

Find out who has best warranty / service in your area. They’re all gonna work new. But if or when you have problem who can handle warranty and repairs quick.

You use the word average. Spa 41 minutes. So mine takes 30. The pool does take 4 - 6 to get to the temps I said mine does. Sorry I used the words a few Not here to argue just saying how mine works.


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Uncle Dave

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Probably gonna turn into a Ford vs Chevy debate but....

I am pricing out pool heaters. Pool is chlorine, kidney shaped and I am taking a shot in the dark at guessing it's around 20k gallons.

It's a sports pool 3 feet on each end and 5 feet deep in the middle. Has slightly elevated spa with spill.

I would take a picture but it's too damn dark out there... Winter sucks. Pool is 60 feet long, 19 feet across at the widest point 16 feet at the second widest point and 12 feet at the narrowest point. Spa is 6 feet around and 3 feet deep with a 3/4 way around bench.

Looking at 400k natural gas. Gas line already installed from old heater. Heater not currently in enclosure but would consider if it would increase longevity.

Use is to extend swimming season and heat the spa year round. I have small kids so we will not be doing a blanket.

Looking at raypak, heyward and starite.

I have heard that the starite is the most efficient which is attractive, heyward is kinda the f150 of pool heaters and I don't know much about raypack other than my pool guy thinks they are good.

What say the inmates?

Standard so cal pool - I have a nearly identical setup with a kidney pool and spa.

My pentair 400 performs like a mini nuke plant, but breaks a lot more often than my raypak did.

Anything less than a 400 and it takes too long to heat up.

The only remotely affordable way to swim comfortably truly year round is with a 400 and solar combined heater alone is like a hole on your savings account - you gotta spend the money to live rich cheap.

A heater a lone is too expensive to be truly "year round" - if you want be able to year round without going broke add solar as much as you can get off a lone pump- and you will roi out from under in under 5 years.

With a 400, solar, and a multi speed pump - you get incredible performance when the two combine lasting a pool up to temp in one day - with 480 Sq feet of clear W/SW facing panels Ive seen a 30 degree differential my your spa from the roof.



UD
 
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Uncle Dave

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The trick to making heaters last is using them. I'm a firm believer in the more you use them the longer they last.

Agreed 99%

with one exception

I find the thermostat in the pentairs (thermal regulator in water heater speak) dies every 2.5 years regardless of use- and of course ALWAYS sticks closed putting the heater in no run mode.

UD
 

Uncle Dave

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To the OP lots of smart experienced guys here. - actually better than many pool forums.

starting at the top because some guys dont now

You get two basic types of gas pool heaters

Active Forced fan high efficiency heaters- like the pentair 400 - these use a forced air fan to circulate the hot gasses around an exchanger -thats thin but kept cool by the air coming under pressure - these burn gas AND electricity when heating
they work at around 80% efficiency meaning 400 = 320 BTU

Passive burner/ core types - like most Raypaks with a a well designed firebox around a thick exchanger very close to the flames but no running forced air fan,

The "Raypak" passive type has WAAAY fewer moving parts sensors and stuff to break but are less efficient per but burned but aren't as efficient because of the heavier thicker exchanger

UD
 

Mr. C

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I've said this before on pool heater RDP threads, your gas supply-pressure inches of water column what ever you want to call it to understand needs to be checked on installation and in the ideal range. If your not able, have a professional calc out your gas line size, run, meter size.

Had to upgrade our regulator ( not sure that’s what it’s called) at the gas meter as the original size wouldn’t push enough gas to keep the heater running. It would shut down. No charge to do this either so that was nice.


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DrunkenSailor

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Standard so cal pool - I have a nearly identical setup with a kidney pool and spa.

My pentair 400 performs like a mini nuke plant, but breaks a lot more often than my raypak did.

Anything less than a 400 and it takes too long to heat up.

The only remotely affordable way to swim comfortably truly year round is with a 400 and solar combined heater alone is like a hole on your savings account - you gotta spend the money to live rich cheap.

A heater a lone is too expensive to be truly "year round" - if you want be able to year round without going broke add solar as much as you can get off a lone pump- and you will roi out from under in under 5 years.

With a 400, solar, and a multi speed pump - you get incredible performance when the two combine lasting a pool up to temp in one day - with 480 Sq feet of clear W/SW facing panels Ive seen a 30 degree differential my your spa from the roof.



UD

We had solar and it leaked destroying our roof. I just ripped all that off and repaired the roof. I completely agree that they work awesome just wasn't worth the headache. I'm thinking raypack is the deduction I'm gonna go unless I can get a deal on a jandy/starite.

The wife wants a new controller, wifi etc... Anyone have recommendations on a good unit? We have a dual speed pump.
 

185EZ

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The wife wants a new controller, wifi etc... Anyone have recommendations on a good unit? We have a dual speed pump.
Not sure what system you have now but I had a Jandy PDA and it was a PITA. Remote rarely connected.
I switched to the iaqualink. Swapped out the old circuit board and antenna and I can control the pool from my laptop or phone anywhere.
Best $600 I ever spent
https://www.iaqualink.com/en/
 

G. Faulk

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Had to upgrade our regulator ( not sure that’s what it’s called) at the gas meter as the original size wouldn’t push enough gas to keep the heater running. It would shut down. No charge to do this either so that was nice.


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A lot of my clients didn't really know that they can have the gas co come out and do a gas meter audit on the property, think thats what called, and if they find the meter is to small for all the appliances they change it out for free and the regulator also.

Its funny, you hear a lot of people complain about pool heater and installation pricing but when its done right it can take some time.
 

boatpi

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I have had and currently have 3 Pentairs, all work well and never broke.
 

DrunkenSailor

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A lot of my clients didn't really know that they can have the gas co come out and do a gas meter audit on the property, think thats what called, and if they find the meter is to small for all the appliances they change it out for free and the regulator also.

Its funny, you hear a lot of people complain about pool heater and installation pricing but when its done right it can take some time.

With that said where is the best place to buy the hardware? instillation is what it costs done right.
 

Uncle Dave

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A lot of my clients didn't really know that they can have the gas co come out and do a gas meter audit on the property, think thats what called, and if they find the meter is to small for all the appliances they change it out for free and the regulator also.

Its funny, you hear a lot of people complain about pool heater and installation pricing buox to a #4 meter t when its done right it can take some time.

Depends on the location of the current meter wether they do it for free or not.

Cost me 7K to bump from a 200Kbtu to a 400K btu heater.

I had to pay for the new meter AND to move the line from a #1 sized meter located in a street box to a #4 meter on the side of the house then pay a plumber to connect the gas line.

UD
 
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Uncle Dave

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We had solar and it leaked destroying our roof. I just ripped all that off and repaired the roof. I completely agree that they work awesome just wasn't worth the headache. I'm thinking raypack is the deduction I'm gonna go unless I can get a deal on a jandy/starite.

The wife wants a new controller, wifi etc... Anyone have recommendations on a good unit? We have a dual speed pump.

How is it you didnt catch a leak that destroyed the roof DS?
Ive had good luck with my jandy PDA, but it'd be cool to use a phone or computer.
 

havasujeeper

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A better question is who has the ability to get us a deal on these damn expensive 400k BTU natural gas heaters? Mine is dead and looking to get a new one, but damn, $2800+ is stupid expensive. I live in Upland. Anyone got connections?
 

DrunkenSailor

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A better question is who has the ability to get us a deal on these damn expensive 400k BTU natural gas heaters? Mine is dead and looking to get a new one, but damn, $2800+ is stupid expensive. I live in Upland. Anyone got connections?
X2 on this lol
 

DrunkenSailor

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How is it you didnt catch a leak that destroyed the roof DS?
Ive had good luck with my jandy PDA, but it'd be cool to use a phone or computer.

The previous owners put it up the leak was at the top corner and I didn't notice until I had water damage inside. I felt real stupid on that one.
 

Melloyellovector

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The previous owners put it up the leak was at the top corner and I didn't notice until I had water damage inside. I felt real stupid on that one.
Typically best practice for roof mount solar is to replace couplings every year. Otherwise a leak will find stand off brackets and if not sealed or no longer sealed they will leak through. You find out exactly like you did when it’s coming through ceiling. Hence why I won’t contract for pool solar. No thanks, w sue happy America
 

jet496

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We had solar and it leaked destroying our roof. I just ripped all that off and repaired the roof. I completely agree that they work awesome just wasn't worth the headache. I'm thinking raypack is the deduction I'm gonna go unless I can get a deal on a jandy/starite.

The wife wants a new controller, wifi etc... Anyone have recommendations on a good unit? We have a dual speed pump.

Last summer we got a Pentaire remote control by a phone app with some spa side buttons just in case. Works nice. Didn't cost much.
 

WalterVandervort

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Any thoughts on the Intex solar heater? I've been happy with them for for a above ground 15 ft round pool. For example: After 1 day it was keeping the pool at 82!
 

DrunkenSailor

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Thanks for bringing this thread back. I want to give a huge shoutout to @Melloyellovector He did our heater install and it has worked flawlessly. Extended the season big time and we have been in the spa at least 3 days a week. Anyone looking for pool work he is your guy.

Sorry walter I got nothing. Taking a look at it online it looks like it will work pretty good based on what we experienced with our solar heater when it worked.
 

Bear Down

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Thanks for bringing this thread back. I want to give a huge shoutout to @Melloyellovector He did our heater install and it has worked flawlessly. Extended the season big time and we have been in the spa at least 3 days a week. Anyone looking for pool work he is your guy.

Sorry walter I got nothing. Taking a look at it online it looks like it will work pretty good based on what we experienced with our solar heater when it worked.
Agreed! Did us right on our pool heater for our house in Upland...



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HPBoats83

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Just a heads up, some of the major manufacturers like Pentair have been severely backed up through the pandemic so it’s turned into another thing that’s hard to get your hands on.


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DrunkenSailor

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Quick question now that this thread got pulled back Up. What's the maintenance required on these things. Anything I should be doing? Or is it a run it until it does deal.
 

ssc

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MYV replaced mine. Of course, that was after he blew up and started a fire with my old heater and displaced numerous, innocent, wonderful tenants. Then again, they were nothing more than a bunch of rat bastards who were behind in their rent. ;) So, the answer for me is whatever heater MYV installs. Tim takes good care of me. That reminds me-- I'll be calling next month to have you replaster the pool.

Cheers, Steve
 

rrrr

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I can't really comment about heaters, because the only one I've ever purchased was a Rheem, which I installed when we moved into our house in 1997. It still works fine, but I haven't used it much since we did a spa delete when the pool was redone in 2012. It costs about $40 to heat the pool for one day's use in the winter.

I do want to mention enclosures. While the pool was being fixed up when we moved in, I boxed in the equipment area when the new 8' cedar fence was built. It has a sloped translucent corrugated fiberglass roof. This was our first pool, and after spending a few grand on pumps, filter, heater, and new above ground plumbing with Jandy valves, it seemed nuts to leave all that exposed to North Texas weather.

I replaced the pool and cleaner pumps and the filter three years ago. The new pumps are VFD controlled, and the new filter is ABS or some other plastic, not fiberglass. I think the reason the old ones lasted 20 years and that the heater still works just fine is because they were protected from the weather.

I can't imagine having the equipment unprotected from the weather. It's just too expensive to leave it out in the elements. Besides that, I would think having a $2,500 electronically controlled pump sitting in the open would attract thieves.

Just my 2¢.
 

Long Way Home

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We use Heliocol Solar Panels on the roof to heat our pool. They worked extremely well for us. Google Heliocol Solar Panels as you can install it or have it installed.
 

havasujeeper

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^
I also got this one. Found a killer deal, and a $300 rebate from So Cal Gas Company
 

Uncle Dave

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Pentair Mastertemp 400.

Same one I have - buy a spare thermal regulator. This is basically a thermostat like in a car and when they fail they stick closed.

This has happened twice in 8 years.

Aside from that Ive had a gas block fail in the first year which is a bizarre failure. (?!??!?!?!??)
 

Uncle Dave

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We use Heliocol Solar Panels on the roof to heat our pool. They worked extremely well for us. Google Heliocol Solar Panels as you can install it or have it installed.

Solar pool heat works great with the right roof and a full run of 12.

Mixing their output with a 400K heater results in incredible heating power.
 
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