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Towing with new trucks vs old trucks

mesquito_creek

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Just an observation... I just took my 2019 standard cab 2500 through the scales. A simple little new single cab weighs 415lbs more than my 2005 crew cab 2500. i wonder if I get blown off the road towing with a regular cab instead of my old crew cab, because it's a full 2 feet shorter and rated to tow 7000 more lbs...
 
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LargeOrangeFont

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but but what if it’s one o’ those big beefy 1/2 tons we suddenly believed the manu fractures propaganda on ?

Exactly.. my 1978 dually that weighs less than a new 1/2 ton and has half the power, half the brakes and a wet noodle for a chassis will out tow any new half ton truck.
 

NicPaus

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I have almost rear ended someone at least 5 times in the last year in the half ton. The brakes are that much better in my 3/4 ton. Forget how good they work until it's the other truck.
 

ramos45

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I traded some towing toughness for extra comfort at an affordable price. The dmax pulls it better with the extra power and 6 speed tranny but the scurge is more comfortable with the dogs and company. The truck has been relegated to boat duty as the boat is a few g's heavier
IMAG1151.jpg



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Gelcoater

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The 460 F250 we had ran way harder than the 95 2500 Sub with 454. Talk about anemic. That 454 was a joke.
Throttle body deal on the 454, right?
Mine was a four wheel drive dually.
It had no problem squalling the back 4 in the Eliminator parking lot:D
Had a Gibson exhaust and a Banks trans command. It towed ok for me, until I towed the same trailer with a diesel, lol.
 

Runs2rch

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Throttle body deal on the 454, right?
Mine was a four wheel drive dually.
It had no problem squalling the back 4 in the Eliminator parking lot:D
Had a Gibson exhaust and a Banks trans command. It towed ok for me, until I towed the same trailer with a diesel, lol.

Yeah TBI. Threw the carb style air cleaner on it with a magnaflow exhaust no cat. Just those bolt ons helped quite a bit.
 

NicPaus

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My TBI 454 Dually really came alive with the Edelbrock MPI kit and every other performance part I could order for it from Edelbrock. Night and day after I installed them.
 

mesquito_creek

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Wheelbase, weight, brakes and power is pretty much how the manufacturers determine.... that a new 1/2 ton out tows an old 1 ton...
 

ToMorrow44

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Besides wheelbase, weight, and power, don’t forget the huge difference in the size of the differentials, leaf springs, bearings, full floating axles, etc that the 3/4+ tons have...thats what sets them apart from a 1/2 ton
 

spectras only

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Sorry, will never trust a new high strung EcoBoost V6 over an old lazy PowerStroke. 7.3 baby!!!

Also, everything else sucks.
The old 7.3 PS struggled to pull my 24 Spectra that had only one engine.:p The puny 3.5 ecoboost in my 1/2 ton pulls like a champ with twin engines in my the Mirage;)
20150704_180130-1.jpg
 

BajaMike

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Fact new 1/2 ton will put tow any older 3/4 ton period

If I understand your statement (?), not true. The new 1/2 tons are over specked with regards to towing, engine too small, trans too weak, rear axle too light, frame to thin on steel.
 
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Bpracing1127

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If I understand your statement (?), not true. The new 1/2 tons are over specked with regards to towing, engine too small, trans too weak, rear axle too light, frame to thin on steel.
Ok..... my everything is bigger than a 20 year old 3/4 ton! The only thing that isn’t is my engine. Still have more torque and horsepower than the 3/4 ton too.
 

spectras only

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The old tows just fine. I’d love to see a half ton...

View attachment 838774

You're gettin silly now.:p You need a 1 ton dually to tow any of those humpback whales of yours with a pin weight of the anchor of the Titanic.;) Noone claimed to tow more with a 1/2 Ton than the recommended max weight by any manufacturer.:rolleyes: Are you a truck design engineer? If not, you are in the wrong profession, and should get a job with Ford, Chrysler or GM. Show them that,they're incompetent, letting ignorant 1/2 ton owners pulling large trailers with their toy trucks.:p:D
 

spectras only

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If I understand your statement (?), not true. The new 1/2 tons are over specked with regards to towing, engine too small, trans too weak, rear axle too light, frame to thin on steel.

Show me accurate comparison data on frame tensile strength and TORSIONAL RIGIDITY of newer trucks using hydroforming vs older trucks that required more welding etc...;) I want to add, Ford had boxed frames for a long time and had the strongest frames for a while. Chrysler had the flimsy C channel frames for the longest time,hence their bodies fell apart before their engines failed.:eek:

Hydroforming has been in the manufacturing industries for a quite a while, but only recently introduced into vehicle production — comparatively speaking. A lot of 2016 trucks use hydroformed frames. The Ram and Chevy trucks are perfect examples of this, and hydroforming is one of the main reasons why the Ram 3500 and Silverado are such powerful workhorses. Hydroformed frames provide many advantages compared to their standard steel or aluminum-plated counterparts. The main advantage that outshines all the others though is the extremely superior strength to weight ratio. In part, thanks to the superior surface quality a hydroformed frame has due to an almost flawless manufacturing technique.

Chrysler changed the 1 T Ram frame as it says here, and that should apply pretty much for all the other brands .

The frame specs that were quoted were the frame parent material was changed from 35,000 PSI steel to 50,000 PSI steel. The frame material was changed from the mild steel to a high strength steel that you should not weld, on as in the past. The rear portion of the frame is now fully boxed for added strength for towing heavier loads. Extra cross members were added along with the front portion of the frame was changed to provide increase towing capacity. The truck in 2013.5 was in compliance with S.A.E. J2807Towing Spec and has the highest tow rating for a 1 ton truck.

frame improvements for 3/4 and 1 ton trucks as follows:
2011 - Chevy
2013.5 -Ram
2015 - Chevy again
2017 - Ford
2020, all three ???
there are a number of ways that stronger and stiffer can be defined and leave it up to auto mfrs to muddy up those advertisements and to spin it however they want to,;) hence I'm looking for real TORSIONAL RIGIDITY DATA.:)
 
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monkeyswrench

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Bigger brakes on the newer half tons is rather misleading. Sure, diameter, increasing surface area for pad contact...But what about the width, allowing for more venting and helping to disperse heat more evenly and quickly? The new truck may stop it better once, but the rotors turn into tacos. Bottom line, half tons are great for the guy towing mostly flatland or a couple times a month, or the contractor doing bid walks. Hauling heavy and often, use the appropriate truck. I'd much rather have bigger brakes, bearings and axles than what is just acceptable. Seen a couple F150's and Tundra's facing the wrong way, but parallel their trailers...they were rated to tow it. Maybe a mix of driver error and a less forgiving setup.
 

Runs2rch

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Bigger brakes on the newer half tons is rather misleading. Sure, diameter, increasing surface area for pad contact...But what about the width, allowing for more venting and helping to disperse heat more evenly and quickly? The new truck may stop it better once, but the rotors turn into tacos. Bottom line, half tons are great for the guy towing mostly flatland or a couple times a month, or the contractor doing bid walks. Hauling heavy and often, use the appropriate truck. I'd much rather have bigger brakes, bearings and axles than what is just acceptable. Seen a couple F150's and Tundra's facing the wrong way, but parallel their trailers...they were rated to tow it. Maybe a mix of driver error and a less forgiving setup.

Driver plays a role even with plenty of truck. We have all seen plenty of improper setups. Can't fix stupid.
 

LargeOrangeFont

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Bigger brakes on the newer half tons is rather misleading. Sure, diameter, increasing surface area for pad contact...But what about the width, allowing for more venting and helping to disperse heat more evenly and quickly? The new truck may stop it better once, but the rotors turn into tacos. Bottom line, half tons are great for the guy towing mostly flatland or a couple times a month, or the contractor doing bid walks. Hauling heavy and often, use the appropriate truck. I'd much rather have bigger brakes, bearings and axles than what is just acceptable. Seen a couple F150's and Tundra's facing the wrong way, but parallel their trailers...they were rated to tow it. Maybe a mix of driver error and a less forgiving setup.

It is not misleading at all. The brakes are bigger on a modern half ton compared to a 15 year old 3/4 ton. The calipers are just as big, the rotors are larger, and just as thick. No one is warping rotors. Literally everything under the truck but the rear axle is as big or bigger on my 18 F150 than my friends 06 Duramax. You talk about undersized components, those older torsion bar GM 3/4 tons go though front end components every 60k miles.

There is a reason a modern half ton weighs as much as a 3/4 ton from 15 years ago.. because it has the same capability, with more tech and safety features.

The ABS is better, modern trucks have traction control, sway control, stability control, the list goes on and on.
 

fishing fool

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So you're saying your spindles, wheel bearings and all running gear is just as good as my F-350????


It is not misleading at all. The brakes are bigger on a modern half ton compared to a 15 year old 3/4 ton. The calipers are just as big, the rotors are larger, and just as thick. No one is warping rotors. Literally everything under the truck but the rear axle is as big or bigger on my 18 F150 than my friends 06 Duramax. You talk about undersized components, those older torsion bar GM 3/4 tons go though front end components every 60k miles.

There is a reason a modern half ton weighs as much as a 3/4 ton from 15 years ago.. because it has the same capability, with more tech and safety features.

The ABS is better, modern trucks have traction control, sway control, stability control, the list goes on and on.
 

LargeOrangeFont

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So you're saying your spindles, wheel bearings and all running gear is just as good as my F-350????

Where did I say anything about a 1 ton truck?

If you have a 25 year old 1 ton truck, the answer is yes however. The modern half ton truck has bigger everything, and has about the same tow rating as a 25 year old F350.

Once again, we are talking about towing within the rated limits of a truck. If you are gonna go tow 10k lbs a new truck is going to be better and safer than a 15 year old one... period.
 

BajaMike

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Show me accurate comparison data on frame tensile strength and TORSIONAL RIGIDITY of newer trucks using hydroforming vs older trucks that required more welding etc...;) I want to add, Ford had boxed frames for a long time and had the strongest frames for a while. Chrysler had the flimsy C channel frames for the longest time,hence their bodies fell apart before their engines failed.:eek:

Hydroforming has been in the manufacturing industries for a quite a while, but only recently introduced into vehicle production — comparatively speaking. A lot of 2016 trucks use hydroformed frames. The Ram and Chevy trucks are perfect examples of this, and hydroforming is one of the main reasons why the Ram 3500 and Silverado are such powerful workhorses. Hydroformed frames provide many advantages compared to their standard steel or aluminum-plated counterparts. The main advantage that outshines all the others though is the extremely superior strength to weight ratio. In part, thanks to the superior surface quality a hydroformed frame has due to an almost flawless manufacturing technique.

Chrysler changed the 1 T Ram frame as it says here, and that should apply pretty much for all the other brands .

The frame specs that were quoted were the frame parent material was changed from 35,000 PSI steel to 50,000 PSI steel. The frame material was changed from the mild steel to a high strength steel that you should not weld, on as in the past. The rear portion of the frame is now fully boxed for added strength for towing heavier loads. Extra cross members were added along with the front portion of the frame was changed to provide increase towing capacity. The truck in 2013.5 was in compliance with S.A.E. J2807Towing Spec and has the highest tow rating for a 1 ton truck.

frame improvements for 3/4 and 1 ton trucks as follows:
2011 - Chevy
2013.5 -Ram
2015 - Chevy again
2017 - Ford
2020, all three ???
there are a number of ways that stronger and stiffer can be defined and leave it up to auto mfrs to muddy up those advertisements and to spin it however they want to,;) hence I'm looking for real TORSIONAL RIGIDITY DATA.:)


Good info!
 

SixD9R

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I currently have a 16 F-150. Previous truck was an 03 F-250. I can tell you that there is absolutely a huge difference in the size of the axles and suspension components between the 2. After owning that super duty and now a 1/2 ton I look under the 150 and the components like they are from a car not a truck. I will say though that the 150 stops really well and better than that old 250 ever did.
 
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