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Thoughts on Illmor engines?

ONE-A-DAY

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Been looking at used Eliminator Daytonas, 28 and 30, seems like the most popular power plant in the mid 2000's up until 2012 or so in twin engine Daytonas was Illmor V10's. 625, 650, 710's etc.
Whats the rub on these things? I have seen threads over the years on rebuild and top end costs? Are they any more maintenance then something like a Merc Racing 500 or 525? Are the costs for rebuilds higher with 10 pistons and many more valves? Are the rebuild intervals more frequent?

I have also been told that you cant scan hours on Illmors as well, truth?

Thanks, Walt
 
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FreeBird236

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They're very good engines, for all the pros and cons check with Boostpower USA. Alexi's the guru.
 

ToMorrow44

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I was eyeing a boat with them and did a bunch of research. I talked with Alexi, he said they usually do full rebuilds around 500hrs at $18-22k/ea, depending on what you want to do to them. I think the $22k was turning it into 800hp or so. Everyone I talked to said the only “nagging” issue with them is they tend to crack the headers. Not because the headers are junk like Merc, but due to the harmonics of the exhaust. Sometimes it can be welded, sometimes you gotta replace it. Otherwise they’re turn key reliable, very fuel efficient. I think you can only scan the 725s for hours. Seems the 625s were the most bulletproof.

No personal experience, just what several people on here and OSO have told me. Plenty of people around the west coast to work on them too.
 

colenighthawk

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Got a 625 Ilmore in my 28' Magic deck boat, so far so good, no issues, love it, only have it for 3 yrs,
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plaster dave

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Most of the owners when they come time to rebuild end up buying older merc 525’s and just repowering them. This is just what I’ve heard because the rebuild cost more then a used set of mercs.


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Bigbore500r

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I think you just need the right mechanic dealing with them.
Most of the horror stories I’ve read involved somebody rebuilding them themselves or having “their shop” go thru them, which usually doesn’t end well. Alexi seems to crank them out all the time I’d pick his brain
 

HighVoltage329

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I loved them in my F29. For me the fact that Ilmor doesn't support them any more is the biggest issue.
Larry's engine & marine said he could do a freshen up.
 

ToMorrow44

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Most of the owners when they come time to rebuild end up buying older merc 525’s and just repowering them. This is just what I’ve heard because the rebuild cost more then a used set of mercs.


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I don’t see how swapping in older 525s solves any problems there. 525s have their own issues..
 

Devious_Chris

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Walt,

If your looking at the 07 28’ at Horizon give me a call....... I had that boat built


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plaster dave

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I don’t see how swapping in older 525s solves any problems there. 525s have their own issues..

A good used set of 525’s are 32k. They can easily be rebuilt for 8-10k. There’s 2 issues with 525’s that I’m aware of top end needs to be rebuilt at 200-300 hrs and headers cracking. Plus you can add a whipple to the 525’s and make them 800hp.
The illmors have no growth potential and no backing from a rebuild stand point. Teague and Boostpower are the only ones really doing a reliable rebuild.


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ToMorrow44

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A good used set of 525’s are 32k. They can easily be rebuilt for 8-10k. There’s 2 issues with 525’s that I’m aware of top end needs to be rebuilt at 200-300 hrs and headers cracking. Plus you can add a whipple to the 525’s and make them 800hp.
The illmors have no growth potential and no backing from a rebuild stand point. Teague and Boostpower are the only ones really doing a reliable rebuild.


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Right, I’m sure people do it. Just seems silly to me to spend $32-35k on used 525s that then need $5-10k each in rebuild to make them reliable. Then you’ll go slower. So you want a whipple, add another $10k each. Plus rerigging the boat. And that’s assuming you don’t need new headers at $7k/pair.

Alexi turns the Ilmors into 775hp for ~$22k I believe. And it’ll run for another 500+hrs.

Most of the big Havasu shops can handle maintenance and troubleshooting of the Ilmors too. Personal opinion: nothing to be scared of with the Ilmors (but I know people are).
 

farmo83

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I agree with everyone else Alexi is the best with them that I know of. Also I'm not sure how easy it is to get parts for them, my preference is to stick with something where parts are as readily available as possible.
 

sirbob

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Any rebuild of the Ilmors should address the issues related to insufficient oil / lube under a load
 

Flying_Lavey

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I agree with everyone else Alexi is the best with them that I know of. Also I'm not sure how easy it is to get parts for them, my preference is to stick with something where parts are as readily available as possible.
Its a Dodge V10...... I can't imagine parts are THAT hard to come by?

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CanyonLakeDave

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I feel most who don’t like Ilmors haven’t actually owned them. My experience was an excellent one in my 33 Daytona. 3 seasons and 0 issues with the 710’s which are the forged and hand built version. I’d buy another Ilmor boat any day.
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farmo83

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Its a Dodge V10...... I can't imagine parts are THAT hard to come by?

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I remember listening to a podcast Alexi gave and he made some comment to the effect he bought 20,000 dollars worth of bearings for the illmors as they were going to quit being manufactured. To your point though, it's a Viper engine so I would think some stuff will always be out there.
 

ToMorrow44

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Its a Dodge V10...... I can't imagine parts are THAT hard to come by?

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Agreed. I believe a lot of the ancillary parts are straight off a Viper. And there’s a good aftermarket following in the car world, a couple of shops who specialize in building/upgrading them for road racing.
 

DaveH

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the dodge is a good engine. there are some known issues with oiling and a tendency to crack exhaust headers (mostly with CMI's).

it would scare me to buy one knowing it has hours on it as the lack of solid people simply arent out there to work on them. BP wont let you down.......

but id take a merc any day as there is just much bigger supply of parts and shops to handle working on them.
 

JLG614

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Walt, my dad had them in his 2007 dcb f29. they were pretty solid motors with very minor issues if any. We ran them up to about 360-400 hours and one started losing oil pressure so we took it to Barrett and he basically said the cost to redo it was pretty expensive so we ended up pulling the motors and replacing them with teague rebuilt 525's. I think we paid around $35k for the rebuilt 525's (they had never been in a boat since teague redid them and we had all the paper to show they were gone through top to bottom) AJ also found us a buyer for our ilmors and i think we got like 14-18k for them still hurt so it wasn't too expensive to do the swap. We lost a little bit on the top end, i think the ilmors would do around 120mph and the 525's do about 112mph but my dad says that the 525's seem to have more torq in the mid range
 

Devious_Chris

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I am not sure if my old boat is still at Horizon? The one I had built was a 2007. The plate between the engines says “Built for Leach”


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ONE-A-DAY

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I am not sure if my old boat is still at Horizon? The one I had built was a 2007. The plate between the engines says “Built for Leach”


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Its back last time I checked. I heard it sold but then it went to a shop for pre-purchase inspection and there was a bad cylinder. It was relisted at a higher price after that repair I believe.
 

ToMorrow44

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Its back last time I checked. I heard it sold but then it went to a shop for pre-purchase inspection and there was a bad cylinder. It was relisted at a higher price after that repair I believe.
I’d be interested to hear what the repair was. I’ve had my eye on that boat but the high hours have me concerned. It’s not far from needing full rebuilds at $20k/ea. I talked to Chris 👆🏻about it, it’s a badass boat.
 

ONE-A-DAY

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I’d be interested to hear what the repair was. I’ve had my eye on that boat but the high hours have me concerned. It’s not far from needing full rebuilds at $20k/ea. I talked to Chris 👆🏻about it, it’s a badass boat.
I considered it as well and spoke with chris and then called Alexi at Boostpower to get some rebuild numbers.
 

MK1MOD0

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6-700 hp normally aspiratEd and that sound ... yea buddy. I personally dig em. I believe they are every bit , if not more reliable than a Merc 600. And full rebuilds would be pretty close cost wise. They look bad ass as well when ya pop the hatch.
 

She's Mine

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Been looking at used Eliminator Daytonas, 28 and 30, seems like the most popular power plant in the mid 2000's up until 2012 or so in twin engine Daytonas was Illmor V10's. 625, 650, 710's etc.
Whats the rub on these things? I have seen threads over the years on rebuild and top end costs? Are they any more maintenance then something like a Merc Racing 500 or 525? Are the costs for rebuilds higher with 10 pistons and many more valves? Are the rebuild intervals more frequent?

I have also been told that you cant scan hours on Illmors as well, truth?

Thanks, Walt

2 words for you.... Davie Stone enough said lol
 

spectras only

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The older V10 Viper engines, up to 99 had forged internals. You could supercharge a 96 to 99 engine without blowing it up. In 2000 when the cast pistons [ cream puff engines ] replaced the forged ones couldn't last with forced induction. When Ilmor built them for boats, did they replace crank, rod and piston assemblies? The forged Viper engines last to 500K miles if maintained properly. How is oiling issues develop in them? New bearings and replacement high volume pump should address that issue IMO. Early 8 quart oil pans were the only issue for Vipers being tracked/raced in high speed turn, hence the modified pans with 10 quart and swing oil pickups came about for late model Vipers.
 

spectras only

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6-700 hp normally aspiratEd and that sound ... yea buddy. I personally dig em. I believe they are every bit , if not more reliable than a Merc 600. And full rebuilds would be pretty close cost wise. They look bad ass as well when ya pop the hatch.

I remember the sound of the first Ilmor powered Eliminators. They were toxic.👍

Here's my 99 Viper with only the cat removed.
 

SkyDirtWaterguy

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It appears if you take care of any motor properly it can last quite awhile..

 

Javajoe

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6-700 hp normally aspiratEd and that sound ... yea buddy. I personally dig em. I believe they are every bit , if not more reliable than a Merc 600. And full rebuilds would be pretty close cost wise. They look bad ass as well when ya pop the hatch.
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pixrthis

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I asked Norm Teague about them last week and he said the design is fine but the internals are not what he’d recommend building marine engines with. The crank, rods, and pistons are not of the quality he’d put in his engines, that said they’re probably fine if you leave them alone and don’t beat on them to hard.
The price of boats with Illmore’s is usually less than a comparable boat with Merc’s so that might be an indication of something. I like the way they look but I’ll steer clear because of the way I use my boats.
 

Racey

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If they were so great they wouldn't have discontinued their use.

They are a rather bastard engine from certain standpoints, Odd-fire, more moving parts, larger footprint, difficult to find certain parts for (exhaust manifolds for example).

There is a reason why the Big/Small Block Chevrolet became the industry standard, it's where all the aftermarket research went. There are countless parts available for them, and out of all gasoline marine engines, over the course of 50 years, there has been more research and refinement put into that configuration than any other motor. There definitely are superior designs out there, but none of them make up for lack of support that they all come with, compared to the overwhelming support available for Chevrolet. That is just an objective truth.

There is nothing wrong with them while they are working, but when they break that is where the teeth show themselves.

They certainly filled a niche for those that wanted something 'different', nothing wrong with that.
 

Uncle Dave

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Pros and cons - like anything else.

Worst con is single source exhaust with a finite life @ about 9K.
2nd worst is service availability. Parts haven't bee a problem perhaps because I haven't needed many.
Its pretty much Teague and Alexi and that vegas shop that seems pretty good for service help - cool if you live in LA not so much if you dont.

Have only 2 problem after 12 years and about 170 Hours low end stumble that started last fall, and some muck got sucked up and cooked a header 6 years ago.

Back in 2009 It was the only mill from a major manufacturer that made NA 700HP and was closed cooled and all aluminum .
Everyone else used blowers to get to that number. I dont want or need the hassle of a windmill. (not saying they aren't sweet ), just that Id prefer really nice NA.

Had I to do it all over again today I'd build another monster BBC like my 588 on a manifold vs headers.

Lots of viable packages have been disco'd over time the Merc 525 being a particularly good one.
The Merc 600 was also nixed but later returned due to demand.

As much it would pain some poeple to hear my next Mill Ill probably go back to a carb mill.

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hallett21

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Pros and cons - like anything else.

Worst con is single source exhaust with a finite life @ about 9K.
2nd worst is service availability. Parts haven't bee a problem perhaps because I haven't needed many.
Its pretty much Teague and Alexi and that vegas shop that seems pretty good for service help - cool if you live in LA not so much if you dont.

Have only 2 problem after 12 years and about 170 Hours low end stumble that started last fall, and some muck got sucked up and cooked a header 6 years ago.

Back in 2009 It was the only mill from a major manufacturer that made NA 700HP and was closed cooled and all aluminum .
Everyone else used blowers to get to that number. I dont want or need the hassle of a windmill. (not saying they aren't sweet ), just that Id prefer really nice NA.

Had I to do it all over again today I'd build another monster BBC like my 588 on a manifold vs headers.

Lots of viable packages have been disco'd over time the Merc 525 being a particularly good one.
The Merc 600 was also nixed but later returned due to demand.

As much it would pain some poeple to hear my next Mill Ill probably go back to a carb mill.

View attachment 981514 View attachment 981515

Why would you leave EFI?

What every happened to the Indy drive? Was it just not fast enough?


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Uncle Dave

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Why would you leave EFI?

What every happened to the Indy drive? Was it just not fast enough?


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Because sooner or later every marine engine will have computer or connector problems.

Dont know the whatabouts on the ilmor drive. It had crazy low loss.
I know eliminator built a 27 daytona with 2 of them that really sang.

I think teague had problems with them in front if his blown mills, but dont know for sure.

 

hallett21

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Because sooner or later every marine engine will have computer or connector problems.

Dont know the whatabouts on the ilmor drive. It had crazy low loss.
I know eliminator built a 27 daytona with 2 of them that really sang.

I think teague had problems with them in front if his blown mills, but dont know for sure.


I bleed mercury. But I really love when someone creates competition. Wish the Indy drive had done better.

I know so little about the I/O stuff so I can’t really comment on the carb vs efi. I’m a hit the key and go guy but if I knew more about engines I may change my tune.


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Uncle Dave

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Ive always loved Mercury since I been 9 years old, but they didnt offer what I was looking for at the time of purchase.

I was never going to run a surface piercing drive with a cleaver prop in a single engine V so I didnt really care about the Indy and it came after my build anyway as did the 725 with all kinds of weird stuff.

On carbs, they certainly aren't better than EFI, but I can build, tune and troubleshoot engine with them with no external help after dyno day.
 

dnewps

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Can’t believe nobody has said it...nothing is more reliable and long lasting than an ilmor at 600-700 hp. You like a 525...right? Merc 600 and 700 need work before an Ilmor. Sure...the merc can be modified...at that point I want a teague. Must be why teague had them in the line up. Im a chevy guy...ilmor is the reliable choice...lightweight, fuel efficient, and cool sound. It’s an ls with 2 more cylinders.
 

QC22

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Has anybody here ever run the MV8 570? I always thought that would be a cool repower. I heard Barrett had one on the floor. Have no idea if it is still there.
 
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