Boat Down

[Mr. C]

Either that or talking shit about the friends of management seems to swing the perma-ban hammer down hard and fast.
.

Funny sad. But true.


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[Ziggy]

And that right there is how the masses, if they choose to, control a certain amount of what goes on here.
When "He Who is a Tool" (I'm done using his screen name) becomes a greater liability than an asset, changes get made.
It simply takes a unified front to get it done.

Personally, I'd rather discuss the thread topic over gregs posts. Half of the problem is those that feel the need respond to or comment about his dumb posts instead of ignoring them.
.
Thanks to you for helping out your friends and clearing up the mystery of the accident and subsequent actions. Really glad to hear they are not seriously hurt.

 

[Mr. C]

And that right there is how the masses, if they choose to, control a certain amount of what goes on here.
When "He Who is a Tool" (I'm done using his screen name) becomes a greater liability than an asset, changes get made.
It simply takes a unified front to get it done.

I just don’t see it happening. He’s been doing the same shit for 15 - 20 years and is still here doing the same shit.


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[Waffles]

I just don’t see it happening. He’s been doing the same shit for 15 - 20 years and is still here doing the same shit.


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The problem with Greg, is that he feels untouchable due to where he lives. He doesn’t have to deal with the repercussions of having to bump into someone he “accidentally” mouthed off to. I guarantee that he’s gonna fuck with the wrong person one of these days and when he does, he better hope that person is tech illiterate lol

 

[Bobby V]

The problem with Greg, is that he feels untouchable due to where he lives. He doesn’t have to deal with the repercussions of having to bump into someone he “accidentally” mouthed off to. I guarantee that he’s gonna fuck with the wrong person one of these days and when he does, he better hope that person is tech illiterate lol

Doesn't he live where all the Delta guys hangout? I know Napa and 99 know him and he came down to HB for a XMAS party and boat parade many years ago. Haven't heard of any problems.

 

[Lunatic Fringe]

Personally, I'd rather discuss the thread topic over gregs posts. Half of the problem is those that feel the need respond to or comment about his dumb posts instead of ignoring them.

I agree and you'd be hard pressed to find any kind of negative remarks from me regarding his posts.
That ended when in this thread, he quoted me, re-wrote my words and called me a liar.
That went from stupid posts to a whole other level and he's done it to others before. Maybe not calling someone a liar but going way too far with his efforts to stir things up.
I do believe Dave is essentially complicit in this as he allows, maybe even encourages it. We all understand clicks are $. Traffic on the site is the driving force e almost to the exclusion of content.

 

[Mr. C]

The problem with Greg, is that he feels untouchable due to where he lives. He doesn’t have to deal with the repercussions of having to bump into someone he “accidentally” mouthed off to. I guarantee that he’s gonna fuck with the wrong person one of these days and when he does, he better hope that person is tech illiterate lol

I don’t even think he thinks of repercussions. Nothing has happened. And for almost 2 decades of his his antics nothing will. Except a vacation here every other month. And name change every 2nd year. And he knows it. And Dave let’s that be the way it is and seems to be fine with that. His site his rules.


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[Lunatic Fringe]

I just don’t see it happening. He’s been doing the same shit for 15 - 20 years and is still here doing the same shit.


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Yep.
And as long as we don't vote to drain the swamp, he will continue with impunity.
Minus a joke of a banning occasionally.

 

[Lunatic Fringe]

I don’t even think he thinks of repercussions. Nothing has happened. And for almost 2 decades of his his antics nothing will. Except a vacation here every other month. And name change every 2nd year. And he knows it. And Dave let’s that be the way it is and seems to be fine with that. His site his rules.


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Exactly true.
His site his rules.
The issue was spelled out well by HavasuHanging. The tone here will gradually continue to change as long as his comments and general actions go relatively unpunished.
It's a form of cultural evolution where bad behavior begets bad behavior.

 

[2Driver]

When a performance boating / river site turns into a “social media” site it loses significant value. I post or visit on one site and haven’t considered this typical social media but it’s getting there.

 

[Havasu blue label]

Bunch of kids just let it be

 

[Lunatic Fringe]

When a performance boating / river site turns into a “social media” site it loses significant value. I post or visit on one site and haven’t considered this typical social media but it’s getting there.

Without a doubt.
Facebook, twitter et al. has been the death knell of communication.

There's no requirement we as members allow it to occurr here though.
It simply takes a concerted effort to not abide continuous bad behavior.

 

[Lunatic Fringe]

Bunch of kids just let it be

You have your opinion and I guess I have mine.

 

[JB in so cal]

I might not be back...

 

[Lunatic Fringe]

I might not be back...

LOL
OK. That's one.
If we get two it's a movement.

 

[Sherpa]

just remember, this is supposed to be fun and relaxing, as well as informative........

let it go.

 

[Lunatic Fringe]

just remember, this is supposed to be fun and relaxing, as well as informative........

let it go.

Isn't that exactly why he should be stopped from continuing his ways?

I get it that I'm beating a dead horse but there's a reason I'm doing it.

 

[RiverDave]

Isn't that exactly why he should be stopped from continuing his ways?

I get it that I'm beating a dead horse but there's a reason I'm doing it.

I apologize for not addressing this yesterday.. I went in for a therapy thjng on my ankle and it ended up putting me out the rest of the day and night. Let me get up and to a computer and I will be happy to respond..

 

[Lunatic Fringe]

I apologize for not addressing this yesterday.. I went in for a therapy thjng on my ankle and it ended up putting me out the rest of the day and night. Let me get up and to a computer and I will be happy to respond..

I appreciate the look over.

 

[That Guy]

I understand people's frustration with Grads....I don't personally know him but it really isn't that hard to block him, scroll past, ignore, call him a homo...whatever works for you. But the fact that he constantly gets this "rise" out of members is why it will continue.

Once in awhile, he posts something that is interesting and not simply cage rattling and on those occasions I guess that's his right as long as Dave approves. The other times, I simply ignore him and move on.....Either way, there are bigger problems right now then Greg.

P.S. - Glad your friends are ok!

 

[QC22]

Every forum needs a crazy Uncle. @GRADS is that for me. Nod your head and grab another beer, just like Thanksgiving.

 

[Waffles]

Doesn't he live where all the Delta guys hangout? I know Napa and 99 know him and he came down to HB for a XMAS party and boat parade many years ago. Haven't heard of any problems.

Yea because coming down to HB once a decade is definitely the same as going out to havasu as frequently as hundreds of RDP and FB members do.

 

[dnewps]

Free speech used to be a thing. Let him say what he wants. You don’t have to agree. Frankly, I am surprised at the response on here.

 

[RiverDave]

First off very happy they are ok. I have always wanted to run next to him. My Orion bottom is based off his. Just widened and length added. But all other features identical I believe. What size motor does he have? Hope to get a chance next season to run with him.

I believe the Orion bottom was originally tooled off the 25 Daytona? At least that is what Martin told me 15 - 20 years ago.. I know it didn't drive like a 25 Daytona (the first one didn't.. I actually took it to the river and ran it)

RD

 

[RiverDave]

Ok I'm going to try and address this as best as I can one by one..

I agree to a point. Ignoring him works to a degree but at what time is enough enough?

He has a pattern that continues to be disruptive.

He strolls the halls of RDP sticking his head in various doors and selectively tossing written grenades into the rooms.
If the response is what he desires, good or bad, he pokes and prods until someone or multiples lose their shit.

If the tide turns too strong against his "grenade" he never returns or gives the "What? Who me?" deal.

There are a number of members here who like him in person and defend him but honestly, when a significant portion of any group dislikes his actions there comes a time when he should look within and decide maybe he's the problem. Maybe try to be the guy the people who know him personally to be.

If he's unable or unwilling to do so then the forums suffer the consequences. Maybe minor consequences but how do you measure?

It's one thing to have a dissenting opinion or even an abrasive persona but the intentional, way out of line comments that he is known for are just not community friendly.
I'm all for a spirited discussion and even off color remarks but there is a time and a place for each of those and he is, I believe, intentionally tone deaf to the timing of that.

He obviously has some issues and I'm sympathetic to that but like I said to start.
When is enough enough?

Dave?

It's an interesting point that you bring up, and while I agree with some of it, I don't agree with all of it. I don't necessarily think he is always "throwing grenades" metaphorically for the intention of causing Chaos...

If you go read this thread again (which I just did, and yes I can see the deleted posts) it is the description of what happened by a key witness @hallett21 that brings up the idea that something is "off" with the situation. When I read it, I was sure thinking it. The difference between Grads and myself is I didn't say it.

But when someone says that a boat flips.. People are picked up out of the boat, and multiple people are telling these people "don't call 911" then what is someone supposed to think?

Grads bit, said "Drunk" then later said "He smelled BS" with regard to saving a motor.. Basically he just showed that he knows nothing about engines and the fact that if they are "pickled" as it were that they can in fact be brought back to life relatively easily, compared to doing nothing where it's all gonna go to shit in short order.

That said though, looking at this situation only (not the overall) it doesn't read like to me that he's the one that caused the unrest, but rather responded to something that was definitely "leading" with regard to "don't call 911" mentioned in at least 2 posts, and referenced to two boats.. The one that picked the people up (don't call 911) and the conquest or wife of the operator who according to @hallett21 was told multiple times (according to him) don't call 911.

WTF would any reasonable person think?

Now @Lunatic Fringe comes in and says "that's not the case". Believe me I totally get it because I have seen and been involved in enough things where you know things behind the scenes that are completely different than they are on the surface, but you are inclined not to say anything because it doesn't need to be public knowledge..

I guess what I'm saying here is if you read the first page, and look virtually everyone is saying "something isn't adding up here" because of the implied description given by the person that stayed with the boat @hallett21.

Grads is singled because he said the second thing saying he smells BS. (more to come on that).

Enough was a long time ago. Grads will eventually piss off the wrong person. The boating community is not big enough to avoid other boaters for the rest of your life. I don’t understand how a person can continuously have individuals pissed at you. Horrible way to go through life

I agree it is kind of a bizarre way to go through life and I'm not sure it's the way I would want to live..

Stuffing a sponson sucks. Seen my share. I can't recall once when it was actual operator error. It happens fast and furious. Glad to see things getting better in this situation.

On That note, Fuck Grads.

I take the opposite approach to that.. I can't think of a single time that it isn't the drivers fault, unless there is some major mechanical failure.

I do not know Dave or grads. The only logical conclusion is that Dave likes him, agrees with what he does or it increases the bottom line of RDP. Just my .02. I have him on ignore as well.

I find it strange that a bunch of conservatives that are always proponents of the 1st and 2nd ammendments are so quick to silence someone with a dissenting view. I'll be clear he does nothing to add to the bottom line of rdp. If anything it detracts, but I do try to live by the principals that I preach.

The constant cycle of banning him and bringing him back is getting old. Ignore button is a great feature but in reality why do we need to be using it for a person who is abrasive to so many. How many of us have this asshole on ignore? Certainly feels like he's got something on someone around here....

I am curious, since we have already gone down the rabbit whole of "he must have" with regard to the alcohol / boat thing.. What do you think someone could possibly have on me, that you would think it would affect my decisions to allow someone to post or not? LOL. What did I kill someone in Nor Cal and Grads knows where the body is?

Idk how you guys let one guy on the internet get you in such a fluster. Or why you would ever get into a physical altercation over something said on the Internet. It’s literally just words


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And here we learn something from a Millenial..

When I was a kid it was sticks and stones, but never words. I for the life of me can't understand how this guy gets under everyones skin so quick either? Especially when I read the individual texts, it isn't like he's that out of line (at least not in this case? again maybe not overall).

That’s very true it says a lot a bought people on this website I look up rdp for boating events and this site has turned into a shit show just be safe boating and respect fellow boaters

And it's something we are reigning in, by adding more and more boating content daily.. Stupid shit like this does detract from the amount of time I have to do that though. However compared to the rest of the internet, with such sites like IG and FB going on I would say we are LIGHTYEARS AHEAD on the civility front. I read shit on FB that literally makes me scratch my head wondering how these people tie their shoes let alone use a computer.. and civility is completely lost on that platform.



On to Part 2.

RD

 

[Havasu Hangin']

Free speech used to be a thing. Let him say what he wants. You don’t have to agree. Frankly, I am surprised at the response on here.

1) Free speech does not come without social consequences. In other words, you can walk up to someone and insult them (free speech), but you'll have to deal with the repercussions.
2) I don't think these private sites necessarily need to offer "free speech" unregulated.

I'm not really surprised about the response here, because I don't know anyone that can be abrasive (online or real life) without being socially ostracized. Most people don't want to be around negativity. So he can say what he wants (and he does), but there are consequences, as with all of us.

I for the life of me can't understand how this guy gets under everyones skin so quick either?

Who was that guy who used to get the tribal drums out to vote off members, not because of what they said, but how they said it? You used to keep the community on track (even Hot Boat) that when someone didn't fit in because of their posting style, they were better gone because no one wants to come here to see a guy be inappropriate and/or abrasive to a large portion of the membership. It's a numbers game- you already have a bunch of guys who identified this guy is so bad, they have to actually blocked him. Isn't that your red flag that maybe you are seeing things differently than guys like Lunatic Fringe who nobody is blocking?

I remember even back in the HTM tragedy days (and river accidents since then), you would berate anyone who was inappropriate when family members were coming on the forums looking for information.

Somehow...things have changed.

 

[RiverDave]

I mean I think that was a joke at first, cant even remember. But the shit I’ve seen people post about burying bodies etc just make me shake my head lol.

You’d think 25% of the board did hard time for murder.


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So now we circle back to the one member that literally used that phrase in every single post.. andwouldtalklikethis half the time. Stay Tuned @LargeOrangeFont because we are gonna circle back to your post at the end here shortly.

That guy was IMO disruptive to the forum, and was literally walking on the high wire every single day. He would PM the moderators non stop, and when he wasn't pm'ing them, he was pm'ing me, or flat harassing any member that had a differing opinion to the point where he had run several people off the site. I would get complaints daily, and my whole 1st amendment speech was something I lived by, and even though I couldn't hardly stand it I just figured "live and let live."

One day was finally enough.. He literally said one of my best friends should be fired over something he knew nothing about, and I had had it.. I'll address with with LOF in the second part.

This is why I stopped visiting here a couple years ago.

We used to be a tight group, but alot of it had to do with we all knew each other in person, and had the posting respect not to ever post something you wouldn't say to someone in person. I learned alot from the site, and even Hot Boat back in the day- we were all new at some point.

But seeing how some people post makes me question why come here? You need to leave here with a smile on your face, not pissed off at people that ruins your day.

Giving someone a pass because of that is like giving a murderer his freedom because he contributes to a food bank.

Any site has to be about respect, not just content. Otherwise, who wants to go somewhere where they aren't respected, online or in person? You mention "just words"...but not everyone has your ability to not take it personally.

Back in the day, the winter drama would sometimes set in, as everyone was itching to get back on the water, and the content was thin. But we still respected each other and treated each other accordingly. Even if you thought some drama, you didn't post it (just like in real life you keep your mouth closed).

The internet does not give you the right to be a douche, it just enables it.

HH, I remember you throwing a few lobs over the last couple decades.. LOL. .

I didn't quote your second post, but you did make mention of something that I have always said since I first found these boating forums..

@Havasu Hangin' "if you don't leave here with a smile on your face, then why would you come here."

I agree 1000% and have always said RDP is just a break from work for a couple of minutes a day.. A place to lean back in the chair and look at some pics out on the lake or vacation / boat whatever... and you should leave it feeling better than you came.

I honestly do try to keep it that way, but the problem is (as with all forms of online communication) people will get into some little debate / argument.. and they just can't let it go.

Dave likes the bottom line he brings !!

Already said above, he doesn't add anything to the bottomline.. if anything it's the opposite. I just try to let people have a little more freedom on here, and with that freedom comes responsibility. Responsibility on BOTH PARTIES though.. One to choose what they put up.. The other to choose how or what they are going to read / scroll by / and or how they react too it.

Is it too much to ask both sides of that fence to be adults? Or am I only allowed to ask 1? (think about it).

It is a for profit forum. Activity breeds activity. Positive or negative, the activity sells advertising. Grads posting here is akin to the clickbait title on a CNN story. That is why he does not go away.

Not really.. While active forums are one of the keystones to rdp.. It generally doesn't do much with regard to how it affects the advertising dollars.
In the 13 years of rdp, I have had one... (read that again). ONE ask for the analytics, and when I gave it to them, it turned out it was because there whiz kid nephew wanted to see them, and I ended up spending most the time explaining them to the people in charge.

Either that or talking shit about the friends of management seems to swing the perma-ban hammer down hard and fast.

But yes, if the top 20-25 posters here went on strike, things would slow down pretty quickly.

To address both these point, we swing back to the Brian thing.. That's really the only member that I can remember I straight whacked for talking shit on one of my friends.. And like I said that guy was on the teeter totter of getting banned daily. To tell you the truth his name came up more in conversation with the mod squad then Grads... Ask @DaytonaBabe or @shintoooo etc.. They are gonna tell ya the same thing.

That day was the day that broke the camels back.

On the second point of course if you took the top 20-25 out of anything it would affect things. I think that would be true in any circumstance? Take the top 20-25 people out of a company? Take the top 20-25 players out of the NFL? Take the top 20-25 Drivers out of Nascar or F1?

That being said though forums are pretty resilient if you know how to run them... and I don't believe the top posters are gonna boycott rdp over the likes of Grads.

Being that we have had this conversation a couple times though (I'm not sure if you ever bother to go back and read my responses to this stuff or not) I'd like to set it in for ya one more time.

@LargeOrangeFont The advertising on the forum is not affected by a single members actions.. Nor are they affected by the actual #'s or analytics. My #'s can swing up to a 1/3 from the on season to the off season.. For example we were running about 150,000-160,000 unique IP's a month during the summer.. We were running about 140,000 two months ago. This month I'll run about 120,000 with the lull being in the 110,000's.. If things stay on track (which they have been for years) we will be reaching 175,000 - 200,000 next season and our lull will be in the 140,000's.

I watch the #'s incessantly, everything from how many threads are started per day, posts per day, total overall site performance which includes total IP's (main metric) bounce rate, where they are coming from, where they are going too etc..

There's a lot more that goes on behind the scenes here than you (or most) would ever realize. We sent out our newsletter yesterday and I'm watching the performance of that, how many people opened it, every link that was clicked and how many times... LOL. It's actually kinda boring on the backside, but also fascinating if you are into that kinda stuff.

The overall board doesn't go up and down based on one person.

One thing I can tell you though is and I hope you remember this going into the future.. The #'s will "spike" if there's something negative going on, but overall (which is a much greater concern) they will go down in the future.

Onto Part 3.

RD

 

[RiverDave]

1) Free speech does not come without social consequences. In other words, you can walk up to someone and insult them (free speech), but you'll have to deal with the repercussions.
2) I don't think these private sites necessarily need to offer "free speech" unregulated.

I'm not really surprised about the response here, because I don't know anyone that can be abrasive (online or real life) without being socially ostracized. Most people don't want to be around negativity. So he can say what he wants (and he does), but there are consequences, as with all of us.



Who was that guy who used to get the tribal drums out to vote off members, not because of what they said, but how they said it? You used to keep the community on track (even Hot Boat) that when someone didn't fit in because of their posting style, they were better gone because no one wants to come here to see a guy be inappropriate and/or abrasive to a large portion of the membership. It's a numbers game- you already have a bunch of guys who identified this guy is so bad, they have to actually blocked him. Isn't that your red flag that maybe you are seeing things differently than guys like Lunatic Fringe who nobody is blocking?

I remember even back in the HTM tragedy days (and river accidents since then), you would berate anyone who was inappropriate when family members were coming on the forums looking for information.

Somehow...things have changed.

No things haven't changed.. let me address part 3 here and I will hope to offer some perspective on that.

RD

 

[Havasu Hangin']

HH, I remember you throwing a few lobs over the last couple decades.. LOL. .

I am much kinder, more forgiving, now....lol.

 

[RiverDave]

Giving someone a pass because of that is like giving a murderer his freedom because he contributes to a food bank.

Any site has to be about respect, not just content. Otherwise, who wants to go somewhere where they aren't respected, online or in person? You mention "just words"...but not everyone has your ability to not take it personally.

Back in the day, the winter drama would sometimes set in, as everyone was itching to get back on the water, and the content was thin. But we still respected each other and treated each other accordingly. Even if you thought some drama, you didn't post it (just like in real life you keep your mouth closed).

The internet does not give you the right to be a douche, it just enables it.

1) Free speech does not come without social consequences. In other words, you can walk up to someone and insult them (free speech), but you'll have to deal with the repercussions.
2) I don't think these private sites necessarily need to offer "free speech" unregulated.

I'm not really surprised about the response here, because I don't know anyone that can be abrasive (online or real life) without being socially ostracized. Most people don't want to be around negativity. So he can say what he wants (and he does), but there are consequences, as with all of us.



Who was that guy who used to get the tribal drums out to vote off members, not because of what they said, but how they said it? You used to keep the community on track (even Hot Boat) that when someone didn't fit in because of their posting style, they were better gone because no one wants to come here to see a guy be inappropriate and/or abrasive to a large portion of the membership. It's a numbers game- you already have a bunch of guys who identified this guy is so bad, they have to actually blocked him. Isn't that your red flag that maybe you are seeing things differently than guys like Lunatic Fringe who nobody is blocking?

I remember even back in the HTM tragedy days (and river accidents since then), you would berate anyone who was inappropriate when family members were coming on the forums looking for information.

Somehow...things have changed.

Ok part 3..

People tend to have a memory that is "better than it was."

People often refer back to Hotboat like it was a good place.. That place was out of fucking control negative, and one of the large reasons I sought off to start different forums back in the day. If you so much as even said "The sky is blue" someone would come back and say "It's light blue moron" and things would go down hill from there.. Original popular posters on that site quit posting, because it got so bad... and I'm still talking about the early days here, not later on in life.

HBJET / Randy ended up quitting posting on there because he'd go to the sandbar and someone would say "Hey HBJET" and he was concerned if it was a "Friend or Foe". LVJetboy used to put up some pretty bad ass projects he was working on and he quit because of the negativity, and I could list many others.

I remember being on there and arguing non stop on that flipping thing, and coming away feeling about like I feel nowadays when I go on FB.. It was literally just a non stop fight.. Granted there was some good times had there as well, but I have no illusions about how dark that place actually was...

As for the tribal drums.. . Yes I did that, because there was no moderators on that site period in the beginning and there was some assholes on there that were living the dream of anonymity. At least with Grads aka Greg he isn't pretending to be someone else, and it isn't like people don't know who he is..

You will also remember myself and Wes and a few others actually became moderators on that site.. What a fucking shit show that turned out to be. Eventually all of us just said "Fuck it". You can't put that genie back in the bottle type stuff..

To the point of the arguments, yes we are at the point where Grads is gonna go away. I personally am a little saddened by it, because I feel like people "should" be able to be adults and just scroll by something if they don't like it, or just tell the guy to F off if they don't want to talk to him etc.. but I digress it doesn't sound like it's possible, and @Lunatic Fringe and yourself are right..

When it comes to the point where entire groups of people are calling for someones removal, than obviously the problem is with the person.. I may not totally get the Hatred for this guy, but yes it will be addressed.

But lets not have false memories of the past, and say it was all hunky dory on the ole HB, because that place was fucking ruthless.. I'd say this is a far more civil communitiy than that place ever was. Probably not as tight knit as HB, but this website is literally 10 times the size of HB as well when it comes to the numbers.

RD

 

[RiverDave]

I am much kinder, more forgiving, now....lol.

Kinder, gentler, LESS FORGIVING now.. LOL.

RD. .

 

[RiverDave]

Funny sad. But true.


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Name the examples.. I can think of one.

RD

 

[Havasu Hangin']

People tend to have a memory that is "better than it was."

Believe me, I remember all the drama of those days. But for me, the difference was were spent more time trying to figure our damn boats out, and the drama would pop up once in awhile- not the other way around.

Even look at this thread. We've spent more time arguing about the drama of a couple guys accusing someone of drinking and boating causing an accident, rather than the actual accident.

I get the difficulty in trying to manage a diverse group- it's nearly impossible to make everyone happy. But if the purpose of this site is to leave everyone who visits here with a positive impression, and maybe a little smarter about the lifestyle, then hard choices have to sometimes be made. Maybe even unpopular ones. It's like being a parent- you have to do what's best for your kids, and it's sometimes going to make someone pout.

I personally am a little saddened by it, because I feel like people "should" be able to be adults and just scroll by something if they don't like it, or just tell the guy to F off if they don't want to talk to him etc..

If GRADS were to ask me, I would council him to maybe just be more socially aware on how he posts. It's not what you say, it's how you say it. And sometimes, you just need to bite your lip, instead of reacting.

For example, let's say someone posts this:

GRAPS in the ER

Although not much of you like him, according to his Instagram he’s had 2 Strokes. Doctors are gunna work on his Carotid Artery.
Again, just in case any of you care.

Should I post:

"I'm calling BULLSHIT! He was probably smoking crack...lol

...or should I post:

"Man that sux. Hope he gets better. I'd like to know what caused it? We are all getting up there in age."

Both are free speech. Both are saying the same thing. However, one of those actually takes into account other people's feelings (like maybe family members who come on here looking for information about him). If he is smoking crack, it really isn't our business, is it?

 

[Mr. C]

Name the examples.. I can think of one.

RD

I'm sure it's the one you're thinking of.
can't remember and don't care to remember all of it.

 

[Havasu blue label]

Dude is sometimes entertaining just ignore it move on about the member calling 911 that’s the what any person would do

 

[RiverDave]

I understand people's frustration with Grads....I don't personally know him but it really isn't that hard to block him, scroll past, ignore, call him a homo...whatever works for you. But the fact that he constantly gets this "rise" out of members is why it will continue.

Once in awhile, he posts something that is interesting and not simply cage rattling and on those occasions I guess that's his right as long as Dave approves. The other times, I simply ignore him and move on.....Either way, there are bigger problems right now then Greg.

P.S. - Glad your friends are ok!

Believe me, I remember all the drama of those days. But for me, the difference was were spent more time trying to figure our damn boats out, and the drama would pop up once in awhile- not the other way around.

I get the difficulty in trying to manage a diverse group- it's nearly impossible to make everyone happy. But if the purpose of this site is to leave everyone who visits here with a positive impression, and maybe a little smarter about the lifestyle, then hard choices have to sometimes be made. Maybe even unpopular ones. It's like being a parent- you have to do what's best for your kids, and it's sometimes going to make someone pout.



If GRADS were to ask me, I would council him to maybe just be more socially aware on how he posts. It's not what you say, it's how you say it. And sometimes, you just need to bite your lip, instead of reacting.

For example, let's say someone posts this:

GRAPS in the ER


Should I post:

"I'm calling BULLSHIT! He was probably smoking crack...lol

...or should I post:

"Man that sux. Hope he gets better. I'd like to know what caused it? We are all getting up there in age."

Both are free speech. Both are saying the same thing. However, one of those actually takes into account other people's feelings (like maybe family members who come on here looking for information about him). If he is smoking crack, it really isn't our business, is it?

I have tried.. and he's done more time in the penalty box than any single member on any single forum that I can think of...

When I let him back anymore, I don't expect him to change (even though he always says he will), I just think there's some good in having a "lightning rod" to take the hits.. LOL. Which is more or less what he is..

Note the first page in this thread, everybody else said the same thing.. He's the only one being pounded on.

RD

 

[LargeOrangeFont]

@RiverDave

Holy crap you are on a roll!

The bottom line is that it is your forum, you run it as you see fit. Ban whoever you want, permanently or temporarily, for whatever reason, you won't see me complaining.

With regard to the revenue/advertising, clearly the forum is driven by the collective members' activity. If the advertisers care about the specific metrics or not, that is another matter. If I was new and was going to advertise here I could come on and lurk for a week and see that there certainly is activity and traffic. That said if everyone ceased posting for 6 months, you cease to have a product to sell, which was my main point. That is obviously unlikely to happen.

And I agree with you that over time, numbers do go down. "Negative" activity certainly keeps things "active" which is why you keep Grads around, keep the P&G section open, etc. It is not in your best interest to get rid of them. Regardless of how you count them - clicks, new IPs, posts, whatever, the activity that P&G and Grads drives, breeds more activity.

No one person or handful of people is going to grow or shrink the site certainly. But a single heavy contributor leaving my constitute a small "dip" of "activity" temporarily. Such a dip is probably just absorbed by the noise and is unnoticed. As you noted in the past we have had this conversation, and I have always said you have done a masterful job of monetizing people's free time.

I'm assuming that these days the forum is also a pipeline for the brand and RE, certainly more than just boating, as there are many more lurkers than their are posters.

 

[Havasu Hangin']

Note the first page in this thread, everybody else said the same thing.. He's the only one being pounded on.

Oh...he's not the only one...I see it. But the mob mentality...if one guy throws that Molotov cocktail, and others join in, if you stopped the first guy, would the others had done it on their own?

 

[TeamGreene]

RDP is a gathering place where like minded people get together to share common interests and knowledge, so you have to ask yourself would you keep inviting the same asshole over to your house who has continually insulted your other houseguests/friends or would that person get left off the invite list. It's really that simple.

 

[Activated]

I don’t get it really.

Just don’t read his posts if it bothers you that much.

I enjoy busting his chops and if he says something really dumb...well that’s Grads for you.

 

[wet hull]

I believe the Orion bottom was originally tooled off the 25 Daytona? At least that is what Martin told me 15 - 20 years ago.. I know it didn't drive like a 25 Daytona (the first one didn't.. I actually took it to the river and ran it)

RD

That's what we always thought but when you look at this boat it has the same nose design between sponsons. My boat has a drop down type design in the nose. It doesn't just come out flat like a Daytona. I know the first boat didn't run well until they added something to rear.

 

[Universal Elements]

I learned something new today....

RDP is no longer. KDP - Killer Dave’s Place is the new site!

 

[Rajobigguy]

I really don't get why it is such a big deal to just put Grads on the ignore list and go on with life. I did it a couple of years ago and things got better but everyone that keeps breaking out the pitch forks to do battle with him is just as guilty of taking everything off track.

 

[Magic Mike]

I live 2 hours from Parker, I’ve wanted to move there since the first time I was there 30 years ago.
I’m injured right now, had a couple surgeries and need a few more. This site teaches me so much about boats and brings me daily to where I wish I could be. It helps me a lot in a really bad time in my life by keeping the dream alive.

Just like in person, if you don’t like someone, ignore them or tell them to F’off and then ignore them.
Be thankful for this site, your boat and family. Don’t sweat the small stuff, it could be worse.

 

[RiverDave]

@RiverDave

Holy crap you are on a roll!

The bottom line is that it is your forum, you run it as you see fit. Ban whoever you want, permanently or temporarily, for whatever reason, you won't see me complaining.

With regard to the revenue/advertising, clearly the forum is driven by the collective members' activity. If the advertisers care about the specific metrics or not, that is another matter. If I was new and was going to advertise here I could come on and lurk for a week and see that there certainly is activity and traffic. That said if everyone ceased posting for 6 months, you cease to have a product to sell, which was my main point. That is obviously unlikely to happen.

And I agree with you that over time, numbers do go down. "Negative" activity certainly keeps things "active" which is why you keep Grads around, keep the P&G section open, etc. It is not in your best interest to get rid of them. Regardless of how you count them - clicks, new IPs, posts, whatever, the activity that P&G and Grads drives, breeds more activity.

No one person or handful of people is going to grow or shrink the site certainly. But a single heavy contributor leaving my constitute a small "dip" of "activity" temporarily. Such a dip is probably just absorbed by the noise and is unnoticed. As you noted in the past we have had this conversation, and I have always said you have done a masterful job of monetizing people's free time.

I'm assuming that these days the forum is also a pipeline for the brand and RE, certainly more than just boating, as there are many more lurkers than their are posters.

It's like that golden quarterback in pop Warner football that has carried all those other kids for those seasons.. One day he's either gonna get old and move on, or his family is gonna move away. Everybody is gonna say "We are so screwed without this kid." yet somehow someway another one always comes along and fills the spot.

I just happened to send this (not for advertising reasons, but a marketing proposal for something else... We might be going boat racing next year) to someone yesterday.

We are right on track where we need to be.. Grads has had little if any influence on the overall #'s. Site growth is on the same line as it has been since we made the switch to Xenforo a few years back.

FB group is doing alright as well

I was unable to get the IG #'s, because to be honest I don't have the login to the RDP IG account.. LOL. Which shows about how much I pay attention to IG.. . Just not enough time in the day. The daily stats are where you start to see what you are talking about with regard to individual, or smaller group participation being up and down. Noting how many threads are posted / posts are posted.. and what is actually happening hourly on the forums, and tying that to an individual or individuals actions etc.. but that is some serious rabbit hole shit.

RD

 

[RiverDave]

I live 2 hours from Parker, I’ve wanted to move there since the first time I was there 30 years ago.
I’m injured right now, had a couple surgeries and need a few more. This site teaches me so much about boats and brings me daily to where I wish I could be. It helps me a lot in a really bad time in my life by keeping the dream alive.

Just like in person, if you don’t like someone, ignore them or tell them to F’off and then ignore them.
Be thankful for this site, your boat and family. Don’t sweat the small stuff, it could be worse.

I hear similar stories to that from a lot of people. There is a guy recovering in the hospital from open heart surgery right now in Florida, and I spoke to him on the phone and he was very grateful for the site and it's content. Others that get stuck in colder climates either by work or for other reasons also have a very optimistic view on things.
RD

 

[DILLIGAF]

I am much kinder, more forgiving, now....lol.

I remember you being a pain in the ass for a while....lol

 

[BHC Vic]

I hear similar stories to that from a lot of people. There is a guy recovering in the hospital from open heart surgery right now in Florida, and I spoke to him on the phone and he was very grateful for the site and it's content. Others that get stuck in colder climates either by work or for other reasons also have a very optimistic view on things.
RD

The site has good and bad, but I can honestly say it changed my life for the better. It sounds strange but it’s the honest truth

 

[RiverDave]

Since we are full blown on "RDP" as the subject now.. My biggest "want" or if I could change anything to the site.. It wouldn't be Grads.

It would be to get more members posting up more pics of their weekends on here. Honestly from a tech point of view it really isn't all that different from FB, but I have watched some of the membership migrate to posting pics more on their personal FB's and even other group pages, and move away from here. Of course that's on a personal level, some members like KnotonDuty etc.. General overall growth of the site is up consistently so I'm not concerned from a biz perspective.

We are running the best software to make that as easy as possible, and have even added video to the mix (granted it does buffer on initial playback unless you have lightning speed.. I'm working on that).


The second thing I'd want to change is someone posting something up, and someone immediately saying something negative. It makes me want to punch myself in the nuts when some asshole does that.

RD

 

[Badchoices03]

I think at this point you add this hat to your store, would probably be your biggest seller, send some profit to Grads for going away, everyone is happy. [emoji23]


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