Fuck Tesla!

[rivermobster]

Tesla urges court to reinstate hike in emissions penalties

Tesla Inc (TSLA.O) is pressing a U.S. appeals court to immediately reinstate a 2016 Obama regulation more than doubling penalties for automakers who fail to meet fuel efficiency requirements, according to court filings.

www.reuters.com

Huge shocker.

Tesla urges court to reinstate hike in emissions penalties

 

[Ziggy]

CAFE was the catalyst for manufacturers' tiny tin cars that can barely get out of their own way.

 

[rivermobster]

CAFE was the catalyst for manufacturers' tiny tin cars that can barely get out of their own way.

Absolutely. But this is a Whole different ball game when one manufacturer goes after a competitor like this.

Can't get much lower that that.

 

[v6toy4x]

Tesla urges court to reinstate hike in emissions penalties

Tesla Inc (TSLA.O) is pressing a U.S. appeals court to immediately reinstate a 2016 Obama regulation more than doubling penalties for automakers who fail to meet fuel efficiency requirements, according to court filings.

www.reuters.com

Huge shocker.

Tesla urges court to reinstate hike in emissions penalties

Ouch, tough one.
I have my share of polluters but also heavily invested in TESLA,
I gotta go with the money, you are going to have to park those polluters
No more hellcats/ZL1s/Shelbys, that does hurt.

 

[v6toy4x]

I dont think they should be doing that though!

 

[rivermobster]

Ouch, tough one.
I have my share of polluters but also heavily invested in TESLA,
I gotta go with the money, you are going to have to park those polluters

Don't forget to park your boat while you're at it...

 

[Spudsbud]

Lucid

 

[v6toy4x]

Don't forget to park your boat while you're at it...

Whoa, lets slow this down a bit---MY BAD!!!!

 

[Ziggy]

Absolutely. But this is a Whole different ball game when one manufacturer goes after a competitor like this.

Can't get much lower that that.

Right? That tactic was usually reserved for those at the dealership level
It is the new way, 2020 was proof of that fact.

 

[hallett21]

Not that I agree with it but why wouldn’t an electric car company advocate for that? Isn’t this business 101? Take out the competition if you can.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Xring01]

In any new Technology, it takes time for new products to get fully developed, trouble shoot, mass produce enough to get costs down, and develop the infrastructure for that technology to become cost effective for the consumer.

EV Cars are the future. They will eventually overtake Internal Combustion Cars for the most part.
Why, because the Total Ownership Cost, to the consumer will be lower over the life of the vehicle.

Capitalism at its best....

Disclaimer...
I own a Tesla, just sold a GMC 2500 Diesel 4x4 that used to tow a 10,000lb boat with twin Yammy 250s, own GMC 1500, own 65 Mustang, 4 Dirtbikes, 1 Harley, and 1 Ducati... So I have my share of gas vehicles to.

But the key reason why I own a Tesla. It was a business decision. It was alot cheaper than driving a Tahoe or 4 Runner that I used to have... Used to have a gas bills of $500-$700/mth, used to have Fast Track bills of $250-$350/month... take a look at that math over 12 Months...

No I didnt buy my Tesla new... I bought it used at a smoking deal... Could sell it for what I paid for it now.... But that doesnt mean that Tesla is the right car for everyone.... It works for me...

When, EV cars get to that $35K area, with 300 mile range.... You will see a huge shift in the ratio of EV/ICE vehicles on the road. Thats probably about 5 years out, is my best guess. TSLA/GM/F/NIO/XPEV/LI/VW are all working there ass off to get there. The first one who does, which probably have a huge market share.

 

[rivermobster]

Not that I agree with it but why wouldn’t an electric car company advocate for that? Isn’t this business 101? Take out the competition if you can.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I'm a live and let live kinna guy...

There are more than enough customers for pretty much any business out there.

Your best asset Should be a quality product and outstanding service.

NOT your ability to demolish other people's livelihoods.

It's all good, till someone comes after you and yours...

 

[spectra3279]

In any new Technology, it takes time for new products to get fully developed, trouble shoot, mass produce enough to get costs down, and develop the infrastructure for that technology to become cost effective for the consumer.

EV Cars are the future. They will eventually overtake Internal Combustion Cars for the most part.
Why, because the Total Ownership Cost, to the consumer will be lower over the life of the vehicle.

Capitalism at its best....

Disclaimer...
I own a Tesla, just sold a GMC 2500 Diesel 4x4 that used to tow a 10,000lb boat with twin Yammy 250s, own GMC 1500, own 65 Mustang, 4 Dirtbikes, 1 Harley, and 1 Ducati... So I have my share of gas vehicles to.

But the key reason why I own a Tesla. It was a business decision. It was alot cheaper than driving a Tahoe or 4 Runner that I used to have... Used to have a gas bills of $500-$700/mth, used to have Fast Track bills of $250-$350/month... take a look at that math over 12 Months...

No I didnt buy my Tesla new... I bought it used at a smoking deal... Could sell it for what I paid for it now.... But that doesnt mean that Tesla is the right car for everyone.... It works for me...

When, EV cars get to that $35K area, with 300 mile range.... You will see a huge shift in the ratio of EV/ICE vehicles on the road. Thats probably about 5 years out, is my best guess. TSLA/GM/F/NIO/XPEV/LI/VW are all working there ass off to get there. The first one who does, which probably have a huge market share.

Then quit picking winners with tax incentives. Let the market figure it out.

Sent from my SM-G973U using Tapatalk

 

[DaveC]

Keep in mind Cali’s ban on the sale of new gasoline powered cars in 2035 also comes with the goal of eliminating gasoline stations.

Without gas stations in Ca we cannot fuel our boats.

That is their goal and vision.

Some cities up north in CA are already denying permits for the construction of new gas stations

 

[Xring01]

Then quit picking winners with tax incentives. Let the market figure it out.

Sent from my SM-G973U using Tapatalk

Quick Question...
Doesn't the Oil Industry still get Tax Incentives????
How many years have they gotten Tax Incentives????

I cant debate why Gov does what it does... Because thats not worth my time... EV Industry is not alone on Gov Incentives or subsidies.... the entire Renewable Power Generation would fail imediatly with out them... I can keep going... But Oil gets there fair share of Gov money also.

 

[JUSTWANNARACE]

I'm all about EV technology and the performance that Tesla has brought to the forefront. BUT.. WTF is going to happen when EVERYONE has a plug in car? I thing the electric grid needs to be addressed before anything. And at that point the "vehicle tax" on electricity will skyrocket, making and EV no cheaper to operate than a gas vehicle. Not to mention the mining destruction of the earth for the minerals to make the batteries!

Have they figured out how to recycle the batteries yet? Or they still getting tossed in the landfills?

For every action there is an equal and opposite reaction. Some outweigh the others!

And yes I understand alot of these are copper mines that are being shown in memes and such but, how much copper also goes into building an EV?

 

[Sleek-Jet]

What incentives does the oil industry get beyond the same tax breaks available to any corporation?

 

[spectra3279]

Quick Question...
Doesn't the Oil Industry still get Tax Incentives????
How many years have they gotten Tax Incentives????

I cant debate why Gov does what it does... Because thats not worth my time... EV Industry is not alone on Gov Incentives or subsidies.... the entire Renewable Power Generation would fail imediatly with out them... I can keep going... But Oil gets there fair share of Gov money also.

Honestly I don't know. But I do know that any profit Elon makes is from the tax incentives. Oil industry not so much.

I probably would not have any problem with doing away with all the tax incentives

Sent from my SM-G973U using Tapatalk

 

[Sleek-Jet]

Not that I agree with it but why wouldn’t an electric car company advocate for that? Isn’t this business 101? Take out the competition if you can.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Their product can't compete on price, EV's are considerably more expensive that ICE powered vehicles.

So they're best bet is to raise the price of the competition. That certainly is a business practice but not your classic model of free market capitalism...

 

[Ace in the Hole]

Honestly I don't know. But I do know that any profit Elon makes is from the tax incentives. Oil industry not so much.

I probably would not have any problem with doing away with all the tax incentives

Sent from my SM-G973U using Tapatalk

Yep..and he has a team of lawyers to exploit the shit out of them. Back in the days of solar city in HI he really shit all over the state tax incentives and the market before they pulled out...and when they did that they shit on their sales staff. Fuck Elon with a rusty metal dildo.

 

[Ziggy]

Before: The grass is greener over there.(neighbors hot wife)
After: Why has the cost if water increased 10 fold?(divorce, marry hot neighbor)
After after: Dead grass.(new hot wife fucking her new neighbor)

 

[Drew]

I have a hard time even talking about these stupid electric cars. Especially to dumb tree huggers. Those power plants keep chugging away with very little control and are way less efficient than a regular combustion engine that needs to meet or exceed at inspections. Dumb asses think they are saving the world.

 

[v6toy4x]

Yep..and he has a team of lawyers to exploit the shit out of them.

Didnt realize we were talking about the past president!
I am leaving now before I get strung up

 

[Uncle Dave]

3 sides to this story....take the names out and look at what happened.

You as an owner of a company and an independent investor make the decision to invest based on legislation that gets passed.

The next guy in decides to roll back that very legislation that you based your investment on.


Who is the asshole?

 

[Uncle Dave]

Honestly I don't know. But I do know that any profit Elon makes is from the tax incentives. Oil industry not so much.

I probably would not have any problem with doing away with all the tax incentives

Sent from my SM-G973U using Tapatalk

eliminating section 179 probably puts GM and ford into bankruptcy.

 

[Uncle Dave]

What incentives does the oil industry get beyond the same tax breaks available to any corporation?

I dont know that any other industry gets a depletion allowance.

 

[HTMike]

I am not a fan of electric at all. Has anyone seen what these batteries do when the cars get into wrecks ?

 

[Sleek-Jet]

I dont know that any other industry gets a depletion allowance.

Anybody with mineral rights can take that deduction. Not exclusive to oil.

 

[hallett21]

Their product can't compete on price, EV's are considerably more expensive that ICE powered vehicles.

So they're best bet is to raise the price of the competition. That certainly is a business practice but not your classic model of free market capitalism...

Agreed. But doesn’t every industry lobby Congress/government in one way or another to get an advantage?

I’m not happy about this. But I’m far from shocked.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[rivrrts429]

3 sides to this story....take the names out and look at what happened.

You as an owner of a company and an independent investor make the decision to invest based on legislation that gets passed.

The next guy in decides to roll back that very legislation that you based your investment on.


Who is the asshole?

Musk makes no money on his cars. This whole deal is a back door sham to Elon’s real profitability verticle.

He makes his money selling his Carbon Credits back to the very people he competes against. Tesla is just a shell company for the real “industry” he’s poured his heart and bet his wallet on.

Tesla’s stock isn’t indicative of the profitability of his car business. It’s the Carbon Credits the Tesla manufacturing generates that is driving the price.

I don’t blame him. It’s legal but, ethically I suppose you could smirk a bit.

 

[Desert Whaler]

Fuck Tesla and those gay-ass cars . . . people are so stupid.

 

[LuauLounge]

 

[BajaMike]

View attachment 985223

They should be taxing Tesla for all the carbon they produce in their manufacturing process.

 

[v6toy4x]

Fuck Tesla and those gay-ass cars . . . people are so stupid.

Not saying I dis agree but you and I both will be in a very small minority easily within our life times, unless you are quite a bit older than me!
I remember black and white TV and no remote, phones with cords hooked to the wall, clutches in cars along with carburetors, and computer monitors that took up 75% of the desk, I remember the birth of the internet for christ-sakes let alone the cell phones. Techniology moves at a very rapid pace and in big chunks if you ask me. I would bet in 10 years time we will witness monumental changes in the way we commute, either elec or hydrogen will lead the way. I want in on the ground floor so which one is it going to be?

 

[Uncle Dave]

Anybody with mineral rights can take that deduction. Not exclusive to oil.

Interesting didnt know that.

The big subsidy oil and gas get is the no charge protection from the US 5th fleet through the straights of Hormuz and Persian gulf to help protect the petrodollar standard.

That's cost the US taxpayer trillions, while the oil gas companies enjoyed the profits without the associated bill.

Im not ant oil and gas - I have more gasoline burning vehicles than just about anyone here, but a subsidy is a subsidy.

 

[Uncle Dave]

View attachment 985223

Any American car company could have chosen to do this.

No one did but Tesla.

 

[Uncle Dave]

I'm all about EV technology and the performance that Tesla has brought to the forefront. BUT.. WTF is going to happen when EVERYONE has a plug in car? I thing the electric grid needs to be addressed before anything. And at that point the "vehicle tax" on electricity will skyrocket, making and EV no cheaper to operate than a gas vehicle. Not to mention the mining destruction of the earth for the minerals to make the batteries!

Have they figured out how to recycle the batteries yet? Or they still getting tossed in the landfills?

For every action there is an equal and opposite reaction. Some outweigh the others!

View attachment 985204

And yes I understand alot of these are copper mines that are being shown in memes and such but, how much copper also goes into building an EV?

Cobalt has been increasingly engineered out of lithium batteries with a switch to nickel,

but the platinum for catalytic converters that comes from the same mines has not.

same meme change different substance.

 

[2Driver]

Electric is the future, because once every car on the road has a 1/2 ton lithium battery in it the earth will begin to cool.

 

[bonesfab]

There is a whole bunch wrong with all of this. This whole deal is a disaster in the making for the end consumer. 1st if it wasn't for government kickbacks and Tesla selling clean air credits they would not be here. 2nd. The state is going to loose a fuck ton of money in gas tax. Where do you think they will make that up from?? Electric bills will be going through the roof. 3rd The grid can in no way shape or form handle it. There isn't enough grid now let alone for 100k more electric cars to plug in. Power companies need to up grade, That means spend money, where are they going to get it?? From we the consumers. 4th is the enviromental disaster the batteries from these buckets of shit are going to cause. Absolute scam on the people just like china virus.

 

[spectra3279]

Don't know if it holds true on the tesla, but my dodge diesel compared to a prius. The manufacture of a prius produces more bad emissions than the manufacture of my truck plus what it will produce during its entire life span.

Sent from my SM-G973U using Tapatalk

 

[Uncle Dave]

They should be taxing Tesla for all the carbon they produce in their manufacturing process.

They pay the same freight in manufacturing as everyone else.

 

[JUSTWANNARACE]

Cobalt has been increasingly engineered out of lithium batteries with a switch to nickel,

but the platinum for catalytic converters that comes from the same mines has not.

same meme change different substance.

Right!! Which nickle still has to be mined!

And being a contractor that see's cordless tool batteries being thrown in the trash left and right because you cant recycle them seems to be counter intuitive to what the EV pushers are not understanding!

My point being EV, at this point in technology, is not "environmentally friendly"! People think this is the "save the world" approach and it is far from that in reality!!

I am no expert by far, nor do I tend to know alot about it. I just know what I see I guess! And "common sence, isnt so common"!

Not to mention most that push for the EV are the ones that hold stock. They could give 2 shits about the "environmental impact" as long as their portfolio is growing.

Just my $.02

 

[Uncle Dave]

There is a whole bunch wrong with all of this. This whole deal is a disaster in the making for the end consumer. 1st if it wasn't for government kickbacks and Tesla selling clean air credits they would not be here. 2nd. The state is going to loose a fuck ton of money in gas tax. Where do you think they will make that up from?? Electric bills will be going through the roof. 3rd The grid can in no way shape or form handle it. There isn't enough grid now let alone for 100k more electric cars to plug in. Power companies need to up grade, That means spend money, where are they going to get it?? From we the consumers. 4th is the enviromental disaster the batteries from these buckets of shit are going to cause. Absolute scam on the people just like china virus.

Short memory...

If it weren't for the US government there would be no Auto manufacturing period- remember the bailouts?

We can make more power pretty easily with domestic sources- we have more natural gas than just about anyone else on earth.

 

[Uncle Dave]

Right!! Which nickle still has to be mined!

And being a contractor that see's cordless tool batteries being thrown in the trash left and right because you cant recycle them seems to be counter intuitive to what the EV pushers are not understanding!

My point being EV, at this point in technology, is not "environmentally friendly"! People think this is the "save the world" approach and it is far from that in reality!!

I am no expert by far, nor do I tend to know alot about it. I just know what I see I guess! And "common sence, isnt so common"!

Not to mention most that push for the EV are the ones that hold stock. They could give 2 shits about the "environmental impact" as long as their portfolio is growing.

Just my $.02

One mine uses child labor in Africa - the other is domestic and does not.

The maths been done on the long term costs of the ICE and BEV cycles cradle to grave and the BEV is far less polluting overall.

Engineering Explained does a pretty good job highlighting cradle to grave costs of both

For me I could care less about that - to me its about control and flexibility of fueling and vehicle performance - For an Auto the BEV is the superior performer. For a truck its along way from being usable for me.

 

[Uncle Dave]

 

[bonesfab]

Short memory...

If it weren't for the US government there would be no Auto manufacturing period- remember the bailouts?

We can make more power pretty easily with domestic sources- we have more natural gas than just about anyone else on earth.

If it weren't for the government, We would all be much better off. Name one thing the government hasn't fucked up they touched???

 

[LowRiver2]

I am not a fan of electric at all. Has anyone seen what these batteries do when the cars get into wrecks ?

I have
Yes it has to be a bad crash but it’s enough to keep me from buying one.

Can’t help but think every electric car bought is one car closer to eliminating gas powered boats, sxs’s and quads

 

[Uncle Dave]

If it weren't for the government, We would all be much better off. Name one thing the government hasn't fucked up they touched???

Hard to remember where they got it right......

 

[LowRiver2]

Talk to any transmission shop owner about hybrid transmissions. The CVT’s they put in are basically throw away transmissions. Need a rebuild? Buy one from an accident. So the battery and junk CVT are now trash and a low percent of both can be recycled.

“Green” on the new side does not equate to “green” at the end of the use cycle for hybrids.

 

[Uncle Dave]

Talk to any transmission shop owner about hybrid transmissions. The CVT’s they put in are basically throw away transmissions. Need a rebuild? Buy one from an accident. So the battery and junk CVT are now trash and a low percent of both can be recycled.

“Green” on the new side does not equate to “green” at the end of the use cycle for hybrids.

Teslas have no transmission.