Fuck Tesla!

[Racey]

haha ! defense (well keep armwrestling over it !)

If that is our definition of subsidy then you would probably agree that the tech industry is subsidized by the patent system?

 

[sirbob]

Not that I agree with it but why wouldn’t an electric car company advocate for that? Isn’t this business 101? Take out the competition if you can.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Let’s not let sound reasoning and a logical strategy prevail!

That said - F*ck Tesla.

I used to say that because I didn’t like the owner / thought the product looked dull and unimaginative etc.

Now I think I say that b/c I didn’t buy the stock at $50!

 

[rivermobster]

Tesla is worth more...which is bullshit. There biggest annual profits came from buying BTC. All funny money

I said "cash rich". Not who is worth more.

Even still, I find it hard to believe Tesla has more assets, cash or otherwise, overall than Ford. IF that IS what you are trying to say, do you have anything to back that statement up?

 

[Uncle Dave]

If that is our definition of subsidy then you would probably agree that the tech industry is subsidized by the patent system?

I wouldnt say subsidized in that case - Id say protected by..

 

[Racey]

I wouldnt say subsidized in that case - Id say protected by..

LOL but isn't that exactly what the oil ships get, protection

My point being that when we so greatly loosen the term subsidy, it becomes meaningless. As it can apply to almost anything bat that point

 

[Drew]

For me the volt was the best thing I could do. Work is 30.4 miles. I make it there on almost all battery. Maybe 2-4 miles gas. I think it’s going to cost me around 60 a month to charge at home. Work I charge for free. My truck was roughly 80 every other day. Probably 200 a week average. The car cost me 6k. I’m hoping it pays for itself within the year. I’m considering buying my wife a Tesla. The suburban uses a lot of gas as a daily. Window tint helped a lot View attachment 985329

You owe all of us per mile. Road tax is for taking care of the roads. It’s in the cost of fuel. Get ready to pay per mile. It’s coming

 

[napanutt]

I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again, we didn’t buy our model 3 to be green.
Fuck Greta and her agenda.
I wanted something fast and sporty to replace the 06 BMW.
Granted it’s not as fit and finished as a BMW but it’s just as fast if not faster for around the same price.
Will I drive it across the country? Hell no. That’s what our ICE vehicles are for.
Funny participating on the FB Tesla groups. Amazing how many Tesla owners only have one vehicle.

 

[Uncle Dave]

Model X

City of Perris (Coronado Plant), to Lost Lake
In middle of July to Middle of August day time at 12 noon to simulate time and weather temp.

10 to Blythe, northbound Az Ehrenburg and cut across to Lost Lake.

Go for it and report back

Having a hard time finding lost lake on any map you dont mean Duncan Arizona do you?

 

[Uncle Dave]

LOL but isn't that exactly what the oil ships get, protection

My point being that when we so greatly loosen the term subsidy, it becomes meaningless. As it can apply to almost anything bat that point

The original question used the word "incentive" - I changed it to subsidy in casual discussion.

True "subsidy" can mean a host of things -

Ok - lets focus on the protection of oil as an incentive.

Are you trying to say there isnt a cost ?
Or that the oil company doenst get the protection....
or that they pay for it ?

 

[Uncle Dave]

I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again, we didn’t buy our model 3 to be green.
Fuck Greta and her agenda.
I wanted something fast and sporty to replace the 06 BMW.
Granted it’s not as fit and finished as a BMW but it’s just as fast if not faster for around the same price.
Will I drive it across the country? Hell no. That’s what our ICE vehicles are for.
Funny participating on the FB Tesla groups. Amazing how many Tesla owners only have one vehicle.

People get so fixated on fighting green they miss everything else.

 

[rivermobster]

Having a hard time finding lost lake on any map you dont mean Duncan Arizona do you?

Damn noobs...

Lost Lake Resort
(760) 664-4413

Lost Lake Resort · 42500 US-95, Blythe, CA 92225

★★★★★ · Resort hotel

maps.app.goo.gl

 

[Uncle Dave]

Damn noobs...

Lost Lake Resort
(760) 664-4413

Lost Lake Resort · 42500 US-95, Blythe, CA 92225

★★★★★ · Resort hotel

maps.app.goo.gl

I know right.....I had a house one the keys for about 15 years to boot...\

 

[Racey]

True "subsidy" can mean a host of things -

Ok - lets focus on the protection of oil -

Are you trying to say there isnt a cost ?
Or that the oil company doenst get the protection ,
or that they pay for it ?

What I'm saying is that calling the US navy a subsidy for oil is no different than calling the patent system one, or the 911 system a subsidy for ambulances and ERs, the TSA a subsidy for airlines etc etc....

When we talk farm subsidy we are talking direct cash payouts, what you are talking about here is just a general benefit that anyone shipping anything enjoys. At the end of the day, the people buying the oil are paying, which pretty much happens to be the entire country.

The oil companies didn't beg for the navy to secure that area, they didn't even have to ask, and furthermore because of a litany of international laws regarding weapons, are prohibited from providing their own meaningful security anyway.

In the end who pays? Easy, everyone that uses oil, the entire country, every single last one of us. There isn't a person alive in the US who doesn't.

 

[Uncle Dave]

What I'm saying is that calling the US navy a subsidy for oil is no different than calling the patent system one, or the 911 system a subsidy for ambulances and ERs, the TSA a subsidy for airlines etc etc....

When we talk farm subsidy we are talking direct cash payouts, what you are talking about here is just a general benefit that anyone shipping anything enjoys. At the end of the day, the people buying the oil are paying, which pretty much happens to be the entire country.

The oil companies didn't beg for the navy to secure that area, they didn't even have to ask, and furthermore because of a litany of international laws regarding weapons, are prohibited from providing their own meaningful security anyway.

In the end who pays? Easy, everyone that uses oil, the entire country, every single last one of us. There isn't a person alive in the US who doesn't.

The whole 5th fleet is committed to this - what other business endeavor gets a whole fleet dedicated to it?

One estimate is the true cost of this is actually 3 dollars a gallon - that the US taxpayer swallows.

 

[Uncle Dave]

Model X

City of Perris (Coronado Plant), to Lost Lake
In middle of July to Middle of August day time at 12 noon to simulate time and weather temp.

10 to Blythe, northbound Az Ehrenburg and cut across to Lost Lake.

Go for it and report back

I picked 105 ambient and 74 in the cockpit.

Looks like a 1 shot deal no charges needed in an X with about 7 places on the way to charge?

 

[rivermobster]

You kids are missing the big picture here...

Musk...

Has sided with Obama...

To kill the main reason we are ALL on this board.

Act accordingly.

 

[Racey]

The whole 5th fleet is committed to this - what other business endeavor gets a whole fleet dedicated to it?

One estimate is the true cost of this is actually 3 dollars a gallon - that the US taxpayer swallows.

What other business has a 1.3 trillion dollar domestic market?

The US consumes 150 billions of auto fuel a year, does the 5th fleet comprise 50% of the entire US military budget? Because at cost of $3 a gallon it would.....

 

[mjc]

We will continue to build more capacity just like we always have.

Electricity prices will always go up as will electrical load.

We will keep building peaked plants and investing in commercial slice batteries to fix the problem.

Nothing but wind and solar in CA now, so not the best ways to make power.

 

[Uncle Dave]

What other business has a 1.3 trillion dollar domestic market?

The US consumes 150 billions of auto fuel a year, does the 5th fleet comprise 50% of the entire US military budget? Because at cost of $3 a gallon it would.....

If it were simply protecting our oil wed need a lot less protection- we protect the worlds oil.

Iv seen all kinds of numbers against this protection 81B a year is the one that SAFE floated out in 2018.

Does any other single business receive this benny? We haven't counted money spent on protecting oil for wars yet.

 

[Uncle Dave]

Nothing but wind and solar in CA now, so not the best ways to make power.

Not without spinning backup it sure isnt optimal

If we had spinning backup the renewables would be all upside awesome.

Solar is a big reason we dont have more brownouts and the reason that " peak use" shifted from mid day to afternoon.

 

[Racey]

If it were simply protecting our oil wed need a lot less protection- we protect the worlds oil.

Iv seen all kinds of numbers against this protection 81B a year is the one that SAFE floated out in 2018.

Does any other single business receive this benny? We haven't counted money spent on protecting oil for wars yet.

Yeah just the entire US economy who is the beniciciary of cheap and consistent supplies of energy for the last 75 years.... Right or wrong that's the cold truth

 

[Uncle Dave]

Yeah just the entire US economy who is the beniciciary of cheap and consistent supplies of energy for the last 75 years.... Right or wrong that's the cold truth

We have been - no denying that, its the truth. I agree.

There is also no denying that cheap oil has come at great cost, which is also the truth.

 

[Uncle Dave]

Nope but I can dump motor oil, cooking oil, transmission fluid. Damn near anything and it can run on it. It may not like it but it will still run on it.

What vehicle is this ?

The only thing that can even feasibly do it is a pre DPF diesel - and doing that straight for a full tank is a recipe for disaster.

even if you could and decided to do this how many in your neighborhood without power can do that?

 

[Uncle Dave]

From an interesting article


On Thursday, Trump renewed his call for the 15-nation oil producer group OPEC to tamp down crude prices, which are near four-year highs. Trump suggested that OPEC members like Saudi Arabia, Iraq and Kuwait owe the United States, saying "We protect the countries of the Middle East, they would not be safe for very long without us."

To be sure, government agencies like the Environmental Protection Agency and the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration don't factor in the cost of protecting oil supplies when they set fuel policy. The agencies say the cost is actually zero because the Pentagon wouldn't save any money if it stopped defending foreign crude flows. It would simply reallocate those funds elsewhere. A 1992 Congressional Research Service assessment came to a similar conclusion, SAFE notes.
However, SAFE says this approach doesn't account for opportunity cost. In other words, the military could devote budget dollars to other priorities if it wasn't focused on protecting the parts of the world that supply the nation with oil, particularly the Persian Gulf.

"If we can reduce our dependence on oil, we could reduce our presence in the Gulf and use the funds for other critical military priorities, like cybersecurity or hypersonic weapons," said General Duncan McNabb, former commander of the U.S. Transportation Command and a member of SAFE's council.

Defending Persian Gulf oil is a "major distraction" from "existential defense issues," said John Lehman, former Secretary of the Navy under President Ronald Reagan and another member of SAFE's council.

"Our existential threats are what we should be concentrating on. We should concentrate on East Asia and an increasingly revanchist Russia," he said.

 

[rivermobster]

What vehicle is this ?

The only thing that can even feasibly do it is a pre DPF diesel - and doing that straight for a full tank is a recipe for disaster.

even if you could and decided to do this how many in your neighborhood without power can do that?

My 7.3 can run on most anything. So I'm told anyways. I've never actually tried it to find out!

 

[LowRiver2]

I picked 105 ambient and 74 in the cockpit.

Looks like a 1 shot deal no charges needed in an X with about 7 places on the way to charge?

View attachment 985405 View attachment 985408

Ive never said it could not be done
The question I have is can you make it there perris to Lost Lake, no stops and leave the AC on?

Also, I was told the model X has two motors running at the same time.
If true, doesn’t that take more juice than a single motor model, and does yours have one or two motors?

And if you do stop for a charge, what is the layover charging time, in 115 degree heat?

Add in idea of pets, kids for that part of the equation.....

Enlighten us

 

[Xring01]

You can buy a Toyota Camry or Honda Accord that will have a lower TCO than any Tesla. You just paid a premium up front to not pay for fuel down the road. The mileage you drive will determine if it was a real savings or not.

I dont think you are factoring in the cost of Fast Track in California... Electric Vehicles get Fast Track Lanes for free....
I have my spreadsheets, that I created, to determine my TOC on what I was driving, with a yet to be produced Toyota Rav 4 Plug In, and a used Tesla Model S.... spreadsheet doesnt lie... Used model S, saved me $5K/year, that was not accounting for resale value... which would have made more savings/year.... imho...

50mpg vehicles still have to buy gas..., still have to pay for fast track... still need oil changes,

I charge at home for .12cents/kwhr.... and fast track is free.... So a full range charge on my car is $8-$9....., fast track is a minimum savings of $250/mth, sometimes $350.... that math is not debateable... those are hard facts, that can easily be caluculated...

I stated in my post... thats my math... that may not apply to everyone.... because not everyone travels as much as I do, or has the need to use fast track...

 

[Xring01]

Ive never said it could not be done
The question I have is can you make it there perris to Lost Lake, no stops and leave the AC on?

Also, I was told the model X has two motors running at the same time.
If true, doesn’t that take more juice than a single motor model, and does yours have one or two motors?

And if you do stop for a charge, what is the layover charging time, in 115 degree heat?

Add in idea of pets, kids for that part of the equation.....

Enlighten us

Supercharging Teslas is very simple... probably over 50% have two motors... Range is Range.... battery capacity if capacity...
Now driving up hills, just like gas motor, is not as efficient in either... so mountain type areas, you dont get as much range in either..

New Tesla Cars.... say 2019 and above, charge faster than 2018 and below for the most part...
For Example..
a 2019 Model Y, S, X, that arrives at a Super Charger with less than 30 percent charge... can get 150 miles of range added in 15 minutes. The AC is running the entire time, so the dogs/family are fine... (Older cars it might take 20 minutes to get 150miles of range, depending on empty the battery is upon arrival).

However, to fully charge any tesla.... saying you need to go from 10percent to say 95-100 percent, can take 45minutes to an hour if you need to fully charge...

I charge at home... in Murrieta... I leave my house wiht 276miles of range... heading to vegas.... charge at the Baker Supercharger center for about a half hour, because, when I get to vegas, I dont want to arrive on to low of a charge... Honestly for me it works... because I typically have my lap top out in the charging station, doing work, emails etc.

 

[LowRiver2]

I dont think you are factoring in the cost of Fast Track in California... Electric Vehicles get Fast Track Lanes for free....
I have my spreadsheets, that I created, to determine my TOC on what I was driving, with a yet to be produced Toyota Rav 4 Plug In, and a used Tesla Model S.... spreadsheet doesnt lie... Used model S, saved me $5K/year, that was not accounting for resale value... which would have made more savings/year.... imho...

50mpg vehicles still have to buy gas..., still have to pay for fast track...
I charge at home for .12cents/kwhr.... and fast track is free.... So a full range charge on my car is $8-$9....., fast track is a minimum savings of $250/mth, sometimes $350.... that math is not debateable... those are hard facts, that can easily be caluculated...

I stated in my post... thats my math... that may not apply to everyone.... because not everyone travels as much as I do, or has the need to use fast track...

Ive done fast trak on the 10 since it started, great time saver. That said, what makes you think that the fast trak stickers on EV’s won’t end once the governing board decides there are “enough” on the roads like they did to hybrids?

The 30 minute break works for you
Dogs and young kids, not so much
That’s a niche topic though.

The question I have is what is the actual recycle value (percentage of vehicle/parts on an EV vs a gas powered car?

I can tell you hybrids are less percentage wise (recyclable) ,than gas vehicles

Everybody ( green folks) , talk about the eco friendly benefits of these vehicles new.

No one is talking about the recycle, salvage, environmental impact in terms of disposal of these vehicles/parts

The day will come when the focus comes on the end results. Just has ‘t happened yet.

 

[Christopher Lucero]

The whole 5th fleet is committed to this - what other business endeavor gets a whole fleet dedicated to it?

One estimate is the true cost of this is actually 3 dollars a gallon - that the US taxpayer swallows.

The US military is the world's largest consumer of petroleum products, and for the most part consumers also compete with the military for the supply...thus less war, cheaper fuel.

OPEC will occasionally grant cheaper prices when it serves their purposes, but once USA seized the Fracking opportunity, it put them on the run.

FWIW, converting the consumer transport fleet to electricity will relieve our military/consumer competiton

 

[propcheck]

In any new Technology, it takes time for new products to get fully developed, trouble shoot, mass produce enough to get costs down, and develop the infrastructure for that technology to become cost effective for the consumer.

EV Cars are the future. They will eventually overtake Internal Combustion Cars for the most part.
Why, because the Total Ownership Cost, to the consumer will be lower over the life of the vehicle.

Capitalism at its best....

Disclaimer...
I own a Tesla, just sold a GMC 2500 Diesel 4x4 that used to tow a 10,000lb boat with twin Yammy 250s, own GMC 1500, own 65 Mustang, 4 Dirtbikes, 1 Harley, and 1 Ducati... So I have my share of gas vehicles to.

But the key reason why I own a Tesla. It was a business decision. It was alot cheaper than driving a Tahoe or 4 Runner that I used to have... Used to have a gas bills of $500-$700/mth, used to have Fast Track bills of $250-$350/month... take a look at that math over 12 Months...

No I didnt buy my Tesla new... I bought it used at a smoking deal... Could sell it for what I paid for it now.... But that doesnt mean that Tesla is the right car for everyone.... It works for me...

When, EV cars get to that $35K area, with 300 mile range.... You will see a huge shift in the ratio of EV/ICE vehicles on the road. Thats probably about 5 years out, is my best guess. TSLA/GM/F/NIO/XPEV/LI/VW are all working there ass off to get there. The first one who does, which probably have a huge market share.

So then what is the solution for the folks who cant get away with an EV and the idea of outright bans on ICE vehicles? Do we just bow down and conform? Toss the fleet it the trash and magically print some money to buy all new over a five year span. I am all for new tech and industry shift but shouldn’t it be a shift to something better not because of regulation?

 

[mesquito_creek]

Nothing but wind and solar in CA now, so not the best ways to make power.

WA, OR, NV, ID, UT, AZ and WY are fully integrated. They trade power in real time, 15 minute increments and next day. In AZ we love CA solar, at times its so cheap they can't give it away! When someone says you can't make solar after the sun goes down they are incorrect. You can make solar for a couple hours in CA after the sun goes down in AZ 400 miles away.

California ISO - Prices, Today's Outlook

View an interactive map showing current wholesale energy prices, including cost breakdowns, for thousands of price points across the grid.

www.caiso.com

Every dot on that map is a willing generator to sell you a couple MW for a price.

 

[Uncle Dave]

Ive never said it could not be done
The question I have is can you make it there perris to Lost Lake, no stops and leave the AC on?

Also, I was told the model X has two motors running at the same time.
If true, doesn’t that take more juice than a single motor model, and does yours have one or two motors?

And if you do stop for a charge, what is the layover charging time, in 115 degree heat?

Add in idea of pets, kids for that part of the equation.....

Enlighten us

If you look you'll see I ran it on the older P90D - the dual motor version.

I ran it at 105 and cabin temp at 74 with 400LB in the car. So yes the air would be on sth whole time you added 115 degrees after the fact.

You can go to EV trip planner and run it yourself with all the variables you want then you can tell us.

I would guess the max you'd need is about a 15 min stop under any condition with the older car, but you can play with the variable all you want.


The newer cars have much more range than the early X in any case so anything you buy today will easily one shot this trip loaded.

 

[Uncle Dave]

The US military is the world's largest consumer of petroleum products, and for the most part consumers also compete with the military for the supply...thus less war, cheaper fuel.

OPEC will occasionally grant cheaper prices when it serves their purposes, but once USA seized the Fracking opportunity, it put them on the run.

FWIW, converting the consumer transport fleet to electricity will relieve our military/consumer competiton

So you are claiming there is no cost to protect the oil? Not sure I understand.

 

[Christopher Lucero]

So you are claiming there is no cost to protect the oil?

I don't see how that was inferred. I am interested to hear your interpretation, just to be sure we agree...

You edited your post to say "Not sure I understand" Ask me a question about what you don't understand so we can mutually digress.

 

[spectra3279]

What vehicle is this ?

The only thing that can even feasibly do it is a pre DPF diesel - and doing that straight for a full tank is a recipe for disaster.

even if you could and decided to do this how many in your neighborhood without power can do that?

Yep an old diesel. And none around me. My state has not pulled the stupid shit komifornia has. Plus we have plenty of hydro electric.

One of my trucks ran 3 years on nothing but used oil and transmission fluid. Still runs great.

Sent from my SM-G973U using Tapatalk

 

[Christopher Lucero]

Yep an old diesel. And none around me. My state has not pulled the stupid shit komifornia has. Plus we have plenty of hydro electric.

One of my trucks ran 3 years on nothing but used oil and transmission fluid. Still runs great.

Sent from my SM-G973U using Tapatalk

yeah, melted candle wax, crude even.

such a simple device - contained explosions in compressed detonation. Rudolf: genius.

 

[Xring01]

So then what is the solution for the folks who cant get away with an EV and the idea of outright bans on ICE vehicles? Do we just bow down and conform? Toss the fleet it the trash and magically print some money to buy all new over a five year span. I am all for new tech and industry shift but shouldn’t it be a shift to something better not because of regulation?

Quick Question..
What was the price of Microwaves in your kitchen when they first came out?
What was the price 5 and 10 years later...
How about the first big screen TV, first flat screen, LED, VCR, Computer....

As all technologys mature, manufacturers learn how to build those products for less cost, based on lots of engineering principals, and developing the supply chain to get the raw materials they need cheaper.

So the key cost of EV Vehicles is the Battery.... just like the motor is on ICE...

However ICE engine is very mature... the cost of a ICE motor is probably not going any lower, because that is a mature technology..

Battery Tech.. is in its infancy.... what happens when the cost of a battery is 25% cheaper than a ICE???? Have you thought about that? What could happen to EVs...

Please re read my original posts... I stated I thought it would be about 5 years before we get to $35K cars with 300 mile range... at that time, is when we can see a huge shift. Why, because its cheaper for the consumer...

Seriously, create a spreadsheet for all of your vehicles.
What is your annual fuel bill for each? What is your annual maintenance cost for each?
Take a wild guess how much $$$ in maintenance I have spend on my TSLA.... yep.... Zero... no oil changes..
Yes I go thru tires, because its fun bitch to drive...

My thoughts are very simple. Costs of EV will come down, they are less expensive to own/operate. When that initial purchase price comes down, and EV have a range that the consumer is comfortable with at that price.. EV Take over.. Why, because it just makes financial sense.

I dont thing ICE will ever go away. The classic cars will always be around, some will never want to change. Doesnt mean thats its a better financial decision though.

Please remember... TSLA is pushing for 1Million Mile Batterys... .and we all know electric motors last alot longer than ICE... There are many TLSA's on the road with well over 500,000 miles already...

If/When Solid State Batterys become a cost effective product.... WOW.... 1000mile range will be nothing.... Maybe 2000miles... Thats the technology that may change everything. Take a look a Quantumscape.... QS is there stock symbol. RIght now they are 5 years out... but they may get there sooner... Better yet, they have alot of competition.

 

[Christopher Lucero]

Quick Question..
What was the price of

As all technologys mature, manufacturers learn how to build those products for less cost, based on lots of engineering principals, and developing the supply chain to get the raw materials they need cheaper.


I dont thing ICE will ever go away. The classic cars will always be around, some will never want to change. Doesnt mean thats its a better financial decision though.

There is room for both ICE and Electrics in the markets for personal transport and motorized entertainment. The fact that electric motor torque readily exceeds very complicated ICE stoichometry (and complicated torque conversion systems - "transmissions") should be compelling since it does it with lower computer processing overhead, fewer moving parts, and much lighter weight. Nonetheless, I have seen people who still maintain VERY old aircraft and engines - even hit-or-miss engines like this one.

Like a good (woman) friend told me long ago...with proper maintenance, anything can be made to last forever

 

[LowRiver2]

If you look you'll see I ran it on the older P90D - the dual motor version.

I ran it at 105 and cabin temp at 74 with 400LB in the car. So yes the air would be on sth whole time you added 115 degrees after the fact.

You can go to EV trip planner and run it yourself with all the variables you want then you can tell us.

I would guess the max you'd need is about a 15 min stop under any condition with the older car, but you can play with the variable all you want.


The newer cars have much more range than the early X in any case so anything you buy today will easily one shot this trip loaded.

Again
Pretty sure those charging station’s weren’t as plentiful two years ago, and, 115 can be the temps easily along that route past indio most of July into August.

You still haven’t given us a percentage of what an average ev car can be recycled vs a gas car, or what costs are to dispose of thousands of lithium ion batt’s vs recycling lead acid batt’s
In terms of what is best for the planet.

 

[dnewps]

I said "cash rich". Not who is worth more.

Even still, I find it hard to believe Tesla has more assets, cash or otherwise, overall than Ford. IF that IS what you are trying to say, do you have anything to back that statement up?

What I am saying is that Tesla made more money this year on Bitcoin than selling cars.

 

[hallett21]

Now the fun part for Cops and the public:
All EV’s will be easily able to be shut down in the next 20 years. Stolen or felony suspect ? Get the car info., type into a system: car shuts down.

As for hackers or cyber attacks on commuters on freeways: would be an interesting mass casualty terror attack spread over a large geographical area.
Interesting to delve into those scenarios

Pretty sure they can already do that on any modern car.

For sure anything that offers “WiFi”.

Wasn’t this the big deal when the manufacturers locked out the tuners. It wasn’t for emissions as much as it was for cyber attack/terrorism?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Xring01]

Pretty sure they can already do that on any modern car.

For sure anything that offers “WiFi”.

Wasn’t this the big deal when the manufacturers locked out the tuners. It wasn’t for emissions as much as it was for cyber attack/terrorism?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Yep,,, newer F, GMs and pretty much all of them.... can all be shut down remotely.

 

[propcheck]

Quick Question..
What was the price of Microwaves in your kitchen when they first came out?
What was the price 5 and 10 years later...
How about the first big screen TV, first flat screen, LED, VCR, Computer....

As all technologys mature, manufacturers learn how to build those products for less cost, based on lots of engineering principals, and developing the supply chain to get the raw materials they need cheaper.

So the key cost of EV Vehicles is the Battery.... just like the motor is on ICE...

However ICE engine is very mature... the cost of a ICE motor is probably not going any lower, because that is a mature technology..

Battery Tech.. is in its infancy.... what happens when the cost of a battery is 25% cheaper than a ICE???? Have you thought about that? What could happen to EVs...

Please re read my original posts... I stated I thought it would be about 5 years before we get to $35K cars with 300 mile range... at that time, is when we can see a huge shift. Why, because its cheaper for the consumer...

Seriously, create a spreadsheet for all of your vehicles.
What is your annual fuel bill for each? What is your annual maintenance cost for each?
Take a wild guess how much $$$ in maintenance I have spend on my TSLA.... yep.... Zero... no oil changes..
Yes I go thru tires, because its fun bitch to drive...

My thoughts are very simple. Costs of EV will come down, they are less expensive to own/operate. When that initial purchase price comes down, and EV have a range that the consumer is comfortable with at that price.. EV Take over.. Why, because it just makes financial sense.

I dont thing ICE will ever go away. The classic cars will always be around, some will never want to change. Doesnt mean thats its a better financial decision though.

Please remember... TSLA is pushing for 1Million Mile Batterys... .and we all know electric motors last alot longer than ICE... There are many TLSA's on the road with well over 500,000 miles already...

If/When Solid State Batterys become a cost effective product.... WOW.... 1000mile range will be nothing.... Maybe 2000miles... Thats the technology that may change everything. Take a look a Quantumscape.... QS is there stock symbol. RIght now they are 5 years out... but they may get there sooner... Better yet, they have alot of competition.

I understand all the principle you have expressed and I agree with them the issue will be how fast these technologies develop and how soon we are forced to adopt them through government regulation.

 

[LowRiver2]

newsflash: everything is going in that direction. OnStar is the VERY old instance of that capability

Its an example , not an end all

 

[Christopher Lucero]

Its an example , not an end all

you are trying to have it both ways...is it a problem or not?

 

[Christopher Lucero]

forced to adopt them through government regulation.

IDK... forced? Go the easy way or the hard way....life is short.

 

[Christopher Lucero]

I don’t care, guess you don’t know which side of govt. I’m on as to what I deal with.

All good, Im commenting on what is coming and the potential for things that can go wrong/ enforcement from my background.

Ultimately it will be the Supreme Court that rules how intrusive this tech will go into all our lives.

Do I like the fact I can fire a 5.56 round at a Robbery suspect behind a wall and it will track and hit him? Yes

Am I worried that that same round can be hacked to come back at me? Sure

Every action has a reaction. We all need to look ar pros and cons in all things tech.

I know you know what you were trying to say, but it did not come out very clearly...was that on purpose?

and - really? - Supreme Court? yikes! not everything is a constitutional issue, but that seems to be the 'safe haven' once an argument becomes too weak for rational support.

 

[Xring01]

I understand all the principle you have expressed and I agree with them the issue will be how fast these technologies develop and how soon we are forced to adopt them through government regulation.

What CA trys to do, and what actually gets done are two different things.
Yes, they are pushing.... doing there best, but that doesnt mean they will be successful..
If CA politicians got everything they wanted, then why do so many people own guns in CA....
See... they can try, doesnt mean they always succeed.

 

[Christopher Lucero]

What CA trys to do, and what actually gets done are two different things

...but the trend is clear...what you see in Calif is where the world is headed. too many instances of this from the past and in the present to ignore that socioeconomic statistical truth