If you choose not to Vaccinate....

[Uncle Dave]

Should you be allowed hospitalization in the case of severe symptoms requiring urgent care?

Should people be allowed to have it both ways?

My loyalty to my constitution says you should absolutely be allowed to refuse, but I do think choices should come with consequences.

 

[Danger Dave]

If you choose to defund the Police should that preclude you from calling them when you are being assaulted?

 

[JUSTWANNARACE]

So you're saying that if you dont get the vaccine you should not be able to get treatment if you get sick?

If so, that is absolutely asinine!!

Do they treat the flu for those that dont get a flu shot?

Dumb!!

 

[RodnJen]

Tough one for sure. In healthcare I think the severity of the situation will determine access and care. HC providers will be tasked with providing PPE.

Businesses will likely have the right to refuse service. Government provided services including police, fire and public education probably not.

 

[SBMech]

Until they can prove conclusively that they can actually identify it ( false positives at like 45% or something ridiculous).

When they can prove that there is a vaccine ( this is not a vaccine if you can still catch it and transmit it).

When I get to say how my money is spent (MY tax dollars spent on illegals and back door funding schemes).

At that point right after they refuse medical services to illegals, smokers, automobile accidents, and every other random thing that can happen,

I would entertain a conversation about it.

 

[Uncle Dave]

If you choose to defund the Police should that preclude you from calling them when you are being assaulted?

As much as I think that would be poetic justice, we all know when what happens when anti police libs get in trouble - they call the police.

 

[charred1]

Should you be allowed hospitalization when you smoke and get cancer?

 

[Uncle Dave]

So you're saying that if you dont get the vaccine you should not be able to get treatment if you get sick?

If so, that is absolutely asinine!!

Do they treat the flu for those that dont get a flu shot?

Dumb!!

I ask the question to see how the debate goes....

The flu never shut down global commerce, although it kills a lot of people or did.

 

[Uncle Dave]

Should you be allowed hospitalization when you smoke and get cancer?

Let me change up the question a bit.

If you smoke should you be allowed to stand in line for a lung transplant?

 

[Backlash]

Or, when you choose to drive a motor vehicle and get into an accident needing hospitalization. Nobody "Made" you drive your car prior to the collision. You just chose to, and no fault of your own, something terrible happened. Same scenario in my mind.

Yes you should be able to receive treatment, vaccinated or not. No, a person should NOT feel compelled to get a vaccine just to enjoy the freedoms this very country provides.

 

[Uncle Dave]

Until they can prove conclusively that they can actually identify it ( false positives at like 45% or something ridiculous).

When they can prove that there is a vaccine ( this is not a vaccine if you can still catch it and transmit it).

When I get to say how my money is spent (MY tax dollars spent on illegals and back door funding schemes).

At that point right after they refuse medical services to illegals, smokers, automobile accidents, and every other random thing that can happen,

I would entertain a conversation about it.

Totally get the point of the identification question, and the definition of a vaccine.

Is smoking a random thing that happens?

 

[SNiC Jet]

The flu never shut down global commerce,

As with the flu, Covid did not shut down anything........ Foolish "knee jerk" reactions did.

 

[Uncle Dave]

Or, when you choose to drive a motor vehicle and get into an accident needing hospitalization. Nobody "Made" you drive your car prior to the collision. You just chose to, and no fault of your own, something terrible happened. Same scenario in my mind.

Yes you should be able to receive treatment, vaccinated or not. No, a person should NOT feel compelled to get a vaccine just to enjoy the freedoms this very country provides.

Driving isnt a freedom its a privilege that comes with mandatory compliance in at least two matters. (or so most states have determined)

You are forced to wear seatbelts and to obtain insurance.

Should you be allowed to skip these things under the guise of "freedom"?

 

[JUSTWANNARACE]

I ask the question to see how the debate goes....

The flu never shut down global commerce, although it kills a lot of people or did.

And covid shouldn't have either and that becoming more apparent as time goes on!

 

[Uncle Dave]

As with the flu, Covid did not shut down anything........ Foolish "knee jerk" reactions did.

Pretty much.

 

[Uncle Dave]

And covid shouldn't have either and that becoming more apparent as time goes on!

View attachment 990951

I get totally get the irony.

4 people at my company of 200 were purported to die from it.

 

[SNiC Jet]

My loyalty to my constitution says you should absolutely be allowed to refuse, but I do think choices should come with consequences.

So if you do not conform.....you must pay the price?
Freedom does comes at a cost........but blackmail should never be associated with that cost.

 

[Uncle Dave]

So if you do not conform.....you must pay the price?
Freedom does comes at a cost........but blackmail should never be associated with that cost.

If you chose not to vaccinate against tuberculosis and get it - is that "blackmail" or simply a consequence of your choice?

 

[Backlash]

Driving isnt a freedom its a privilege that comes with mandatory compliance in at least two matters. (or so most states have determined)

You are forced to were seatbelts and to obtain insurance.

Should you be allowed to skip these things under the guise of "freedom"?

I think you missed the point I was trying to make, or maybe I didn't clarify it with the post. I'm merely stating people should not be forced to get a bullshit "Vaccine" that isn't a vaccine. Period. Plain and simple. It should be a choice left up to the individual, that's it.

My reference to driving wasn't about the privilege of driving, or the requirements of insurance, etc. I was simply stating that a person makes a choice to drive or not to drive, and hypothetically, ends up in an accident. Should that person NOT be offered medical services after the collision simply because they made a choice? Had they not driven their vehicle that day, they may not have been involved in an accident. If they weren't involved in an accident and injured, they wouldn't need hospitalization for their injuries. It was a choice they made, plain and simple. And by your argument, now you're suggesting we refuse to provide that person medical services because they made a choice to drive?

 

[SNiC Jet]

If you chose not to vaccinate against tuberculosis and get it - is that "blackmail" or simply a consequence of your choice?

This example is ridiculous..... you are confusing laws of nature with laws of man. TB is NOT the entity denying you healthcare.....man is.

 

[Uncle Dave]

I think you missed the point I was trying to make, or maybe I didn't clarify it with the post. I'm merely stating people should not be forced to get a bullshit "Vaccine" that isn't a vaccine. Period. Plain and simple. It should be a choice left up to the individual, that's it.

My reference to driving wasn't about the privilege of driving, or the requirements of insurance, etc. I was simply stating that a person makes a choice to drive or not to drive, and hypothetically, ends up in an accident. Should that person NOT be offered medical services after the collision simply because they made a choice? Had they not driven their vehicle that day, they may not have been involved in an accident. If they weren't involved in an accident and injured, they wouldn't need hospitalization for their injuries. It was a choice they made, plain and simple. And by your argument, now you're suggesting we refuse to provide that person medical services because they made a choice to drive?

You brought up driving not me.

Im asking should choice not to vaccinate should come with any consequences.

 

[Uncle Dave]

This example is ridiculous..... you are confusing laws of nature with laws of man.

You are equating consequence of a decision to "blackmail conformity and punishment"

Freedoms and rights aren't something that can be imposed on others which is why healthcare cannot be a right.

In other words lets say you decide not to vaccinate - you have no right to be taken care of. Its a decision made by someone to do so and a service they provide.

Pick a disease with a vaccine for it lets say you deny it.

Should an insurance company cover a claim for you if you got the disease you refused to vaccinate for? (flu is not a disease)

Lets say we could for 100% sure determine if you had it or not to remove that variable.

Which position has higher moral ground here?

 

[Backlash]

I thought referencing a fairly simple example would support my beliefs and explain why I feel the way I do. I'll try harder next time.

No, the choice to receive this vaccine should be left up to the recipient. And if that person ends up hospitalized, well, then maybe they will rethink their choices in the future. But you can't refuse medical services to a person simply because they did not receive this vaccine. Ask any doctor you know what they will do when treating a patient once they realize that patient didn't get this "Covid-19" vaccine. Do you really think they are going to turn and walk away and refuse treatment? No.

I've made the decision NOT to take this vaccine for my own personal reasons. If that means I have to jump through extra hoops to board a plane, or I can't go to the hippest restaurant in town, or I can't attend some liberal agenda-supporting sporting event, so be it. I'll live.

Show me proof that this vaccine is safe and has no short or long-term side effects, then maybe I'll reconsider. As of right now, no thanks.

 

[Uncle Dave]

I thought referencing a fairly simple example would support my beliefs and explain why I feel the way I do. I'll try harder next time.

No, the choice to receive this vaccine should be left up to the recipient. And if that person ends up hospitalized, well, then maybe they will rethink their choices in the future. But you can't refuse medical services to a person simply because they did not receive this vaccine. Ask any doctor you know what they will do when treating a patient once they realize that patient didn't get this "Covid-19" vaccine. Do you really think they are going to turn and walk away and refuse treatment? No.

I've made the decision NOT to take this vaccine for my own personal reasons. If that means I have to jump through extra hoops to board a plane, or I can't go to the hippest restaurant in town, or I can't attend some liberal agenda-supporting sporting event, so be it. I'll live.

Show me proof that this vaccine is safe and has no short or long-term side effects, then maybe I'll reconsider. As of right now, no thanks.

In the US we treat everybody regardless so the discussion is philosophical.

lets narrow down your generic use of the word "treatment" to treatment for covid vs a vaccine for covid.

I dont want to put words in your mouth, but if I hear what you are saying is that - you feel you should be able to be treated for covid despite choosing not to be vaccinated for it, and that you should suffer absolutely no consequence for your decision should your personal reasons for not getting prove to be incorrect.

 

[RVR SWPR]

This might be considered a benefit of Vaccines. Very few of these machines around today.
Bottom line,yes or no vaccination a personnal decision.

 

[SNiC Jet]

In other words lets say you decide not to vaccinate - you have no right to be taken care of.

Why should my rights diminish simply because I made what is in your opinion.....a poor decision? Who are you or anyone else to make that determination? Gov?

Its a decision made by someone to do so and a service they provide.

They chose the profession........if they deny......they are not worthy of the profession.

Should an insurance company cover a claim for you if you got the disease you refused to vaccinate for? (flu is not a disease)

Yes.....they chose and priced accordingly to accept those risks.


We the people are free to make decisions......that is a trait that made our Nation what we are....and what the Liberals are laboring endlessly to destroy......it appears you have picked your side.

 

[Racey]

Should you be allowed hospitalization in the case of severe symptoms requiring urgent care?

Should people be allowed to have it both ways?

My loyalty to my constitution says you should absolutely be allowed to refuse, but I do think choices should come with consequences.

What an idiotic preface. To be clear who exactly will make this decree to allow or prohibit healthcare?

Hospitals will treat whatever ailments pay. Just as they always have.

50-80k dead a year from the normal flu for the last 50 years, but now all of a sudden we are having this stupid ass debate?

Puhlease.

 

[Backlash]

Yes, I do. And if I'm admitted, treated for this virus, and released a few days later in good health, I would expect my healthcare provider to cover that, regardless. Have you noticed any clauses in healthcare coverage where a patient is refused coverage simply because they haven't been vaccinated? I haven't.

 

[Racey]

You are equating consequence of a decision to "blackmail conformity and punishment"

Freedoms and rights aren't something that can be imposed on others which is why healthcare cannot be a right.

In other words lets say you decide not to vaccinate - you have no right to be taken care of. Its a decision made by someone to do so and a service they provide.

Pick a disease with a vaccine for it lets say you deny it.

Should an insurance company cover a claim for you if you got the disease you refused to vaccinate for? (flu is not a disease)

Lets say we could for 100% sure determine if you had it or not to remove that variable.

Which position has higher moral ground here?

Flu absolutely IS a disease no different than Covid in this context.

 

[Racey]

Should you be denied healthcare for all other ailments if you DID get the vaccine since the side effects are unknow and may have been caused by the vaccine that you knowingly took?

I said it a year ago and i'll stand by it today, The public's (over)reaction to Covid is way worse than Covid itself.

 

[Uncle Dave]

Why should my rights diminish simply because I made what is in your opinion.....a poor decision? Who are you or anyone else to make that determination? Gov?



They chose the profession........if they deny......they are not worthy of the profession.



Yes.....they chose and priced accordingly to accept those risks.


We the people are free to make decisions......that is a trait that made our Nation what we are....and what the Liberals are laboring endlessly to destroy......it appears you have picked your side.

You answer is that you feel you should be able to get Covid treatment if you refuse a covid vaccine and that your decision should carry no consequence.

Its ok to answer that way, Im just curious to see how people feel about it.

Most that refuse feel they should be able to get the same treatment as this that dont.

 

[Uncle Dave]

Flu absolutely IS a disease no different than Covid in this context.

Fair enough on the disease part.

Lets ask a simple question - should there be a treatment consequence to not vaccinating? (for any disease)

 

[Uncle Dave]

Should you be denied healthcare for all other ailments if you DID get the vaccine since the side effects are unknow and may have been caused by the vaccine that you knowingly took?

I said it a year ago and i'll stand by it today, The public's (over)reaction to Covid is way worse than Covid itself.

I agree - the reaction was worse than the disease.

The first part is interesting - and goes back to should we put faith in the CDC WHO or any organization.

 

[RVR SWPR]

LHC Medical Center issues a card indicating your when where & what vaccination. They advise in the future carry this card at all times. Not sure what coming down the pipeline from the biden circus regarding yes or no vaccination.

 

[Uncle Dave]

Why should my rights diminish simply because I made what is in your opinion.....a poor decision? Who are you or anyone else to make that determination? Gov?



They chose the profession........if they deny......they are not worthy of the profession.



Yes.....they chose and priced accordingly to accept those risks.


We the people are free to make decisions......that is a trait that made our Nation what we are....and what the Liberals are laboring endlessly to destroy......it appears you have picked your side.

Do you believe healthcare is a right?

 

[Uncle Dave]

Its always interesting discussing vaccines. People get incredibly emotional.

Im torn on them myself knowing two people that had horrible problems

1. an old boss had a kid that was perfectly normal until he was vaccinated and became severely autistic.
2. an actress I know had huge problem when some idiot gave her child 50X the proper dose and the kid has never been the same.

I put up the question to see how the debate goes.

 

[Uncle Dave]

This might be considered a benefit of Vaccines. Very few of these machines around today.
Bottom line,yes or no vaccination a personnel decision.

View attachment 990958

Are you referring to the polio vaccine stopping this , or something else?

 

[Racey]

Fair enough on the disease part.

Lets ask a simple question - should there be a treatment consequence to not vaccinating? (for any disease)

Isn't there a treatment consequent built in? since you catch the fucking disease?

Likewise isn't there also a consequence if you take the vaccine and die, skin melts off, etc?

The entire point of hospitals are to rectify those types consequences, it's literally their sole reason for existence, from a market standpoint, not a policy one.

 

[LowRiver2]

Should you be allowed hospitalization in the case of severe symptoms requiring urgent care?

Should people be allowed to have it both ways?

My loyalty to my constitution says you should absolutely be allowed to refuse, but I do think choices should come with consequences.

Patient: always admitted, argument is null and void
Hospital staff: Vaccinated or ordered to wesr mask at work
Been that way for decades with flu vaccine, no brainer
Employees have a choice to vaccinate or mask up

 

[Racey]

Here is how stupid this is from an argument standpoint:

Should a mechanic refuse to work on your car if you didn't put water in the radiator?

IT'S HOW HE MAKES HIS LIVING.....

 

[DWC]

LHC Medical Center issues a card indicating your when where & what vaccination. They advise in the future carry this card at all times. Not sure what coming down the pipeline from the biden circus regarding yes or no vaccination.

Buddy and his wife from Vegas just got and heard the same last week. The people that jabbed them said something like “you’re gonna need this” and “you’ll see why soon”. Part of me doesn’t believe just because some jackass is authorized to jab you doesn’t mean he has “top secret” info. The other part thinks it wouldn’t surprise me

 

[SNiC Jet]

Do you believe healthcare is a right?

Please do not confuse offering compassion with providing Free Healthcare.........

 

[Uncle Dave]

Here is how stupid this is from an argument standpoint:

Should a mechanic refuse to work on your car if you didn't put water in the radiator?

IT'S HOW HE MAKES HIS LIVING.....

No one died from an overheated engine..well maybe but very few.

If you had to triage one bed with all thing being equal would you give it to a guy dying of a disease he didnt vaccinate for or another guy in a different situation?

 

[RVR SWPR]

Are you referring to the polio vaccine stopping this , or something else?

Not sure your age? Point is Salk vaccine was welcomed in 1953 - 54. I do not remember or aware of much debate.The schools handled.

 

[JUSTWANNARACE]

You answer is that you feel you should be able to get Covid treatment if you refuse a covid vaccine and that your decision should carry no consequence.

Its ok to answer that way, Im just curious to see how people feel about it.

Most that refuse feel they should be able to get the same treatment as this that dont.

Do I not pay for insurance just like the next guy?

This is why I am completely against standardized(government run) health care. Because that allows the government to control the "who does and who doesn't" narrative more so then private health care!

Doctors take an oath for a reason. And this discussion is one of the reasons! Jmo

 

[pronstar]

If they didn’t politicize the shit out of this from the get-go, we wouldn’t even be having this conversation.

Seriously.

There were known, proven treatments that politicians literally banned.

If Trump said the sky was blue, you can be sure it would be racist to call it anything other than green.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

 

[Uncle Dave]

View attachment 990968


Please do not confuse offering compassion with providing Free Healthcare.........

Then in post 26 when you say why should your rights would be diminished - we agree you had none anyway.

 

[SNiC Jet]

Then in post 26 when you say why should your rights would be diminished - we agree you had none anyway.

I have the right to go to the hospital for treatment, same as anyone.......your are and were advocating that right be taken away because I refuse a vaccine.
To be clear....FREE Healthcare is NOT a Right!

 

[Uncle Dave]

This thread is exactly why I dont agree with "the government shou


Do I not pay for insurance just like the next guy?

This is why I am completely against standardized(government run) health care. Because that allows the government to control the "who does and who doesn't" narrative more so then private health care!

Doctors take an oath for a reason. And this discussion is one of the reasons! Jmo

You do pay like the next guy- the question is how much should you or anyone else pay for other peoples decisions?

Doctors take oaths but triaging exists in extreme circumstances. If faced with two choices why would a doctor chose to give a bed to someone who elected not to protect themselves against something they were dying of (take covid out and put any disease in)

This is not so different than the planned parenthood abortion discussion where I separate a woman's right to choose from my obligation to pay for her choices.

 

[Uncle Dave]

I have the right to go to the hospital for treatment, same as anyone.......your are and were advocating that right be taken away because I refuse a vaccine.
To be clear....FREE Healthcare is NOT a Right!

I did not advocate for that.

Im asking what if any consequence that should yield.