LS Fanboys, please stop making me hate LS engines

[Sharp Shooter]

Ho Le Fuk...

You have me seriously confused the @Bigbore500r and @LargeOrangeFont

I've Never done an LS swap EVER!

I'm the guy that knows how to diagnose and tune, with no computer required.

Please never again lump me in with the LS fan bois above. Thank you for your attention to this matter.

I didn't say you were an LS fan, I said you were a mechanic that could handle an LS swap (in so many words). I could've inserted any decent mechanics into that. lol

 

[rivermobster]

I didn't say you were an LS fan, I said you were a mechanic that could handle an LS swap.

Well yeah, Stevie Wonder could handle an LS swap though!

It's not exactly what I'd want on my resume. It's more embarrassing than anything else!

 

[Blackmagic94]

For one


LSx firing order sounds like shit and is further enhanced when going from duals to a y pipe singles. Hence any 4th gen f body ever.

 

[77charger]

Ls are great but a traditional small block or big block just sound cooler and are really simple for anyone who is mechanically inclined.Compter controlled efi is also great til theirs a problem you cant diagnoxe and take it to adealer they too cant figure out WTF is wrong because the check engine light aint on or its not showing up on their computer.

Seems like only a few can do this and they are true mechanics not parts changers.

 

[spectras only]

After I twisted #1 OEM cast connecting rod in my boosted Miata, running 7000 rpms at the track. it withstood 30+ boost before blown rod/piston. Built a donor 1.8 block, 4340 H-beam rods with L 19 ARP bolts OEM forged crank, it should last with modest 15PSI boost on the track. Problem with BBC/BBF is rotation mass. Bigger problem with BBC is the steep rod angle. If you still run carburator, hydraulic the engine by flooding the engine, you'll bend rods. BBC's smaller crank/ rod journals in BBC are 1/2" smaller vs BBF journal . Chevs were externally balanced, requiring matching harmonic balacer and flywheel, BBF up to 1976-78 were internally balanced with neutral flywheel and Harmonic balancer. Build more power in the ford, you take 460 block, use 429 crank with long rods. I had the LS6 in my 72 24 Spectra, great engine, less TQ than a 460 Ford. The LS small block with OHC and solid lifters would be my choice in a hot rod build. In the meantime, the twin 6.2 in my boat more than make up against a single BBC in power and safety to get me home without relying on tow in case one conks out.

 

[Sharp Shooter]

Ls are great but a traditional small block or big block just sound cooler

We all hear the new Mustangs, Camaros and any number of Dodge cars racing around late at night- every night. The poppy, crackly exhaust note of these cars isn't the music of old.

 

[Bigbore500r]

We all hear the new Mustangs, Camaros and any number of Dodge cars racing around late at night- every night. The poppy, crackly exhaust note of these cars isn't the music of old.

I too miss the sound of a 15 second pass thru turbo mufflers

 

[Bigbore500r]

Why are you bringing my name up ? I don’t LOVE LS motors at all. In fact, never owned one in a car...... was just having a discussion on them in an Internet forum

I was mending fences lol.....
Just showing u that I acknowledge and appreciate the assets of smaller motors in the correct context

 

[LargeOrangeFont]

Your original statement that it would smoke the w12 in torque and HP are completely inaccurate per your own posted specs. Maybe you should go back and compare your numbers to rivermobsters. Or are you going to start using Liberal math? LOL.

Like I said, Why would I compare a modded LS to a OEM W12. If you want me to, I will, but then the crying will begin, because a W12 has no aftermarket.

I can build a reliable 800-1300 HP forced induction LS engine from a catalog. That is just fact. Everyone in this thread knows that, that is why they are crying about the LS platform is soulless and “It is just too easy to make power”.

RiverMobsters entire premise was that the LS is “dinosaur” pushrod technology. Ok well why does the “dinosaur technology” make the same power as a “high tech“ W12 in a smaller, lighter package that is more fuel efficient from the factory. Any level of mods beyond stock in and LS9 or LT4 will run circles around a W12.

 

[Sharp Shooter]

BBC's smaller crank/ rod journals in BBC are 1/2" smaller vs BBF journal . Chevs were externally balanced, requiring matching harmonic balacer and flywheel

Crankshaft main journal diameter Chevy 2.749 Ford 3.000
Crank rod journal diameter Chevy 2.20 Ford 2.50

65-69 Big Block Chevys were internally Balanced. My 540 is Internally balanced.

 

[LargeOrangeFont]

We all hear the new Mustangs, Camaros and any number of Dodge cars racing around late at night- every night. The poppy, crackly exhaust note of these cars isn't the music of old.

Agreed. This ain’t the best, but far from the worst.

 

[DLow]

Like I said, Why would I compare a modded LS to a OEM W12. If you want me to, I will, but then the crying will begin, because a W12 has no aftermarket.

I can build a reliable 800-1300 HP forced induction LS engine from a catalog. That is just fact. Everyone in this thread knows that, that is why they are crying about the LS platform is soulless and “It is just too easy to make power”.

RiverMobsters entire premise was that the LS is “dinosaur” pushrod technology. Ok well why does the “dinosaur technology” make the same power as a “high tech“ W12 in a smaller, lighter package that is more fuel efficient.

Uhhhh … You already did.

 

[Sharp Shooter]

I too miss the sound of a 15 second pass thru turbo mufflers

You're probably alone with your 15 second pass.

 

[LargeOrangeFont]

Uhhhh … You already did.

If I need to prove to you that the aftermarket support for GM V8 engines made in the last 65 years is unmatched by any other engine platform developed by man you are in the wrong thread.

I can build a SBC, BBC or LS out of a catalog that will run circles around a W12.

 

[rivermobster]

If I need to prove to you that the aftermarket support for GM V8 engines made in the last 65 years is unmatched by any other engine platform developed by man you are in the wrong thread.

I can build a SBC, BBC or LS out of a catalog that will run circles around a W12.

You remind me of arguing with a female...

Anytime they can't win the argument, they just change the subject!

The facts are...

The LS is a dinasour pushrod engine that came out in 1997. It's way past it's prime.

The LS is a cheap azz performance engine. As you have stated, anyone with a credit card and an internet connection can build a whole bunch of HP.

The LS is Seriously played out in the performance world. Isn't that what the first post in this thread was about?

Real mechanics are few and far between anymore. Most LS swapers couldn't diagnose their way out of a paper bag.

And as for my out of the lane comment, I'm pretty sure everyone knows real supercars with real HP do not come from GM.

I'll take a Ford GT 40 over a Vette ANY day of the week...

 

[LargeOrangeFont]

You remind me of arguing with a female...

Anytime they can't win the argument, they just change the subject!

The facts are...

The LS is a dinasour pushrod engine that came out in 1997. It's way past it's prime.

The LS is a cheap azz performance engine. As you have stated, anyone with a credit card and an internet connection can build a whole bunch of HP.

The LS is Seriously played out in the performance world. Isn't that what the first post in this thread was about?

Real mechanics are few and far between anymore. Most LS swapers couldn't diagnose their way out of a paper bag.

And as for my out of the this lane comment, I'm pretty sure everyone knows real supercars with real HP do not come from GM.

I'll take a Ford GT 40 over a Vette ANY day of the week...

View attachment 1021563

Whose changing the subject and deflecting now LOL? Why did you abandon the Germans so quickly?? Defend your W12 and explain why that the dinosaur tech of pushrods makes pretty much the same power as the pinnacle of German engineering. So let’s deflect back to Fords!

When I pulled apart a Porsche 928 engine like 22 years ago to port the heads I learned the esson that you haven’t yet learned.. KISS. Zee Germanz are smart but they also do a lot of dumb stuff trying to show you how clever they are.

And there is a woman argument if I’ve ever heard one. “I’ll take the $400k thing over the $60k thing ANY DAY” No shit captain obvious the Ford GT is a better car. It had better be for 6x the price. Oh and BTW, the Ford GT40 you are lusting after had PUSHRODS the picture you posted is of a Ford GT.

GM does not make a super car, they make sports cars - that was in Car and Driver for sure!

Is the LS played out? Yes of course. You can go waste your time and money to go slower with less reliable and/or more expensive parts. You can hang out in the garage diagnosing yore problems like a “real mechanic”. I’ll be on the track running my car and using the money and time I saved on more track time.

That is why the SBC, BBC and LS platforms are so popular. The shit is reliable and it works. You’ve yet to explain how anyone else is “doing it better” than the “dinosaur tech”

 

[rivermobster]

Whose changing the subject and deflecting now LOL? Why did you abandon the Germans so quickly?? Defend your W12 and explain why that the dinosaur tech of pushrods makes pretty much the same power as the pinnacle of German engineering.

When I pulled apart a Porsche 928 engine like 22 years ago to port the heads I learned the lesson that you haven’t yet learned.. KISS

And there is a woman argument if I’ve ever heard one. “I’ll take the $400k thing over the $60k thing ANY DAY” No shit captain obvious the Ford GT is a better car. It had better be for 6x the price. Oh and BTW, the Ford GT40 you are lusting after had PUSHRODS the picture you posted is of a Ford GT.

If you insist...

The W12 comment I made was directed to Racey. He said the imports don't make torque. That statement is clearly wrong.

And as for you thinking the W12 is high tech? Bentley dropped it years ago. It's also a dinasour engine that came out in 2001.

And as for Ford being more expensive than GM? (And , yes, I made a mistake throwing the 40 in there) .That's how it's always been. And also goes back to the whole point of this thread.

You put one in your Mazda cause it was cheap entertainment. I'm sure it's a blast to drive. .

 

[Blackmagic94]

For the record. The guy claiming to be expert owns a rx7.















Without a turbo lol

 

[Gelcoater]

For the record. The guy claiming to be expert owns a rx7.















Without a turbo lol

Or even a Wankel

 

[spectras only]

Agreed. This ain’t the best, but far from the worst.

Your car looks too clean for a track rat. Do you wash it after every session?

 

[LargeOrangeFont]

For the record. The guy claiming to be expert owns a rx7.















Without a turbo lol

And the other guy claiming to be an expert has a jet bote with a junkyard pullout BBC

 

[LargeOrangeFont]

If you insist...

The W12 comment I made was directed to Racey. He said the imports don't make torque. That statement is clearly wrong.

And as for you thinking the W12 is high tech? Bentley dropped it years ago. It's also a dinasour engine that came out in 2001.

And as for Ford being more expensive than GM? (And , yes, I made a mistake throwing the 40 in there) .That's how it's always been. And also goes back to the whole point of this thread.

You put one in your Mazda cause it was cheap entertainment. I'm sure it's a blast to drive. .

Ask the last guy I whipped at the track how that pushrod tech worked out...

Turbo Porsche track car converted to 2WD with a sequential trans.. bad ass piece. He couldn’t get around me.

Once again... what is “high tech“ if you are now abandoning your W12 argument?

 

[spectras only]

Ask the last guy I whipped at the track how that pushrod tech worked out...
View attachment 1021600

Turbo Porsche track car converted to 2WD with a sequential trans.. bad ass piece. He couldn’t get around me.

That's because a lot of P car drivers need more practice. Don't ask how I know, haha

 

[LargeOrangeFont]

That's because a lot of P car drivers need more practice. Don't ask how I know, haha

Yea... there is that. Their stress levels are real however.

 

[LargeOrangeFont]

My shit ain’t the best, but I keep it clean.

 

[River Dirt 2]

I’m plenty happy with my

LS/LT motors….

 

[MK1MOD0]

I was mending fences lol.....
Just showing u that I acknowledge and appreciate the assets of smaller motors in the correct context

All good. For the record, I personally dig a big block. Whether it’s a GM Ford or Mopar. Something about a big cube motor just sounds too cool, and does it for me. I still want to build a first gen Nova, with a big cube ” W“ motor. And make it look like a factory original.

 

[Blackmagic94]

And the other guy claiming to be an expert has a jet bote with a junkyard pullout BBC

Lol says the guy with a bay liner.

 

[LargeOrangeFont]

Lol says the guy with a bay liner.

You gotta have something better than that

 

[LargeOrangeFont]

All good. For the record, I personally dig a big block. Whether it’s a GM Ford or Mopar. Something about a big cube motor just sounds too cool, and does it for me. I still want to build a first gen Nova, with a big cube ” W“ motor. And make it look like a factory original.

I’m seriously considering going solid lifter in my RX7 when I refresh the top end. A big block sounds cool, but a small block at 8K sounds nuts.

But fucking triceratops were driving around LS powered corvettes, so I don’t know, maybe it won’t work .

 

[Rajobigguy]

Speaking of great sounding engines. There was a guy that used to frequent the Doughnut Derilects gatherings that had a first gen T-Bird with a 312 Y-block running about 15to1 compression and the snap of his exhaust note was pure music.

 

[Sharp Shooter]

Speaking of great sounding engines. There was a guy that used to frequent the Doughnut Derilects gatherings that had a first gen T-Bird with a 312 Y-block running about 15to1 compression and the snap of his exhaust note was pure music.

When I was little, my Dad had a '57 with a 427.

 

[spectras only]

Best sound of all my cars was my 66 427 Vette's, period. To make the sound of my 99 Viper better, it needed the removal of the cats and install free flow Magnaflows for the tail pipes.

 

[LargeOrangeFont]

Best sound of all my cars was my 66 427 Vette's, period. To make the sound of my 99 Viper better, it needed the removal of the cats and install free flow Magnaflows for the tail pipes.

That is one of the best sounding vipers I’ve heard. They usually sound like 10 beehives.

 

[spectras only]

Member at our track used to run a 5.0 Mustang GT that sounded awesome. He now has a new 350 GT that sound like shiat but runs much faster.
Another friend has a classic McLaren 427 with Kinsler intake. Only problem he has now, no tracks in Canada allow him to run it with it's deafening 114 dB, only couple of parade laps at some events. It sucks.

Video of Porsche driven by our buddy Scott [ Porsche factory racer ] 3 yrs ago.

Our cheap 95FR Formula 2000FC [ Pinto OHC dry sump engine ] ran 2:04 by my son since this video. Capable going below 2:00 [ my son's goal ] . My son's best run so far

Once you ran open wheels, all the V-8 engined race cars feel like tanks. We're getting a Radical CF bodied with Hayabusa shortly. Best time of those is 1:59 by best driver. My son will meet those numbers for sure, pissing of the old timers, haha.

 

[LargeOrangeFont]

Member at our track used to run a 5.0 Mustang GT that sounded awesome. He now has a new 350 GT that sound like shiat but runs much faster.
Another friend has a classic McLaren 427 with Kinsler intake. Only problem he has now, no tracks in Canada allow him to run it with it's deafening 114 dB, only couple of parade laps at some events. It sucks.

Video of Porsche driven by our buddy Scott [ Porsche factory racer ] 3 yrs ago.

Our cheap 95FR Formula 2000FC [ Pinto OHC dry sump engine ] ran 2:04 by my son since this video. Capable going below 2:00 [ my son's goal ] . My son's best run so far

Once you ran open wheels, all the V-8 engined race cars feel like tanks. We're getting a Radical CF bodied with Hayabusa shortly. Best time of those is 1:59 by best driver. My son will meet those numbers for sure, pissing of the old timers, haha.

I probably should have just went to a Radical when they were cheap several years ago. They pass me in the corners like I’m tied to a tree.

 

[Racey]

People calling pushrod motors "dinosaur tech" and then including LS into that is kinda ironic, since the LS singlehandedly proved that 2 valve pushrods are in fact totally capable of competing against overly complex 4 valve DOHC motors, in performance, economy, and longevity.

20 years ago I remember thinking GM was out of their minds putting all of their chips into a modernized small block while Ford, Dodge, Toyota had began moving into overhead cam motors. Well boy did they prove me wrong. The overhead cam motors have proven to be oil burning, super expensive to repair, and didn't gain significant economy over GMs dinosaur tech that was was cheaper to build and had way more available options for modification.

Edit:And I'm not personally a fan of LS motors in marine applications either BTW.

 

[DRYHEAT]

People calling pushrod motors "dinosaur tech" and then including LS into that is kinda ironic, since the LS singlehandedly proved that 2 valve pushrods are in fact totally capable of competing against overly complex 4 valve DOHC motors, in performance, economy, and longevity.

20 years ago I remember thinking GM was out of their minds putting all of their chips into a modernized small block while Ford, Dodge, Toyota had began moving into overhead cam motors. Well boy did they prove me wrong. The overhead cam motors have proven to be oil burning, super expensive to repair, and didn't gain significant economy over GMs dinosaur tech that was was cheaper to build and had way more available options for modification.

“Rut ro”, now you’ve gone and done it.

 

[LargeOrangeFont]

People calling pushrod motors "dinosaur tech" and then including LS into that is kinda ironic, since the LS singlehandedly proved that 2 valve pushrods are in fact totally capable of competing against overly complex 4 valve DOHC motors, in performance, economy, and longevity.

20 years ago I remember thinking GM was out of their minds putting all of their chips into a modernized small block while Ford, Dodge, Toyota had began moving into overhead cam motors. Well boy did they prove me wrong. The overhead cam motors have proven to be oil burning, super expensive to repair, and didn't gain significant economy over GMs dinosaur tech that was was cheaper to build and had way more available options for modification.

Edit:And I'm not personally a fan of LS motors in marine applications either BTW.

As you rightly noted, DOHC engines are also more expensive to make. The machining operations specifically take longer and are more intricate and there is way less tolerance for core shift.

A Dodge 3.6 pentaster engine costs more to make then an entire Hellcat engine, including the supercharger.

 

[LargeOrangeFont]

“Rut ro”, now you’ve gone and done it.

No shit. Next Rivermobster is gonna break out in song over how great the BMW V10s were

I threw the guy a bone with the Honda K series... he walked right by it and went for the W12

 

[Blackmagic94]

As you rightly noted, DOHC engines are also more expensive to make. The machining operations specifically take longer and are more intricate and there is way less tolerance for core shift.

A Dodge 3.6 pentaster engine costs more to make then an entire Hellcat engine.

Also more parts in cost as well.

 

[LargeOrangeFont]

Also more parts in cost as well.

Agreed.

 

[rivermobster]

People calling pushrod motors "dinosaur tech" and then including LS into that is kinda ironic, since the LS singlehandedly proved that 2 valve pushrods are in fact totally capable of competing against overly complex 4 valve DOHC motors, in performance, economy, and longevity.

20 years ago I remember thinking GM was out of their minds putting all of their chips into a modernized small block while Ford, Dodge, Toyota had began moving into overhead cam motors. Well boy did they prove me wrong. The overhead cam motors have proven to be oil burning, super expensive to repair, and didn't gain significant economy over GMs dinosaur tech that was was cheaper to build and had way more available options for modification.

You're killin me Smalls...

What's the first available option any LS owner HAS to do to his engine??

A fucking oil catch can!!!

There are.more TSB's on the LS using oil than any other engine on the planet. There are multiple class action lawsuits on this issue!

A crappy PCV system, poorly designed valve covers, super thin rings all contribute to the well documented excessive oil usage this thing has has since day one.

Add all this to the fact you have to spin the LS high to make real power, and you have an engine that sucks oil like no other.

Thanks for the laughs guys. Carry on!

 

[SoCalDave]

Just to add to the discussion...

my build, New guy.

I have a 69 Camaro convertible. It's a pro-touring car (I hope that isn't a bad word around here). I was running a 427 small block Chevy striker motor with a Winston Cup top end, full roller, converted to fuel injection with a Big stuff 3 ecm., six speed 9 inch, yadda yadda yadda. I decided...

www.ctsvowners.com

 

[spectras only]

My friend has the Supra SE Raptor with the 6.2 S/C Indmar engine. It's a beast. gets up and go, using it every day. No problems with oil consumption. I'd love those engines in my boat.
https://www.supraboats.com/models/se

 

[Blackmagic94]

My friend has the Supra SE Raptor with the 6.2 S/C Indmar engine. It's a beast. gets up and go, using it every day. No problems with oil consumption. I'd love those engines in my boat.
https://www.supraboats.com/models/se
[/QUOTE

That’s a Ford motor

 

[spectras only]

Ford should have never stopped building the 6.2 for the F-150, also the 5.4 DOHC 32V Intech that was in some Navigators!

 

[MK1MOD0]

Ford should never have stopped the 6.2 for the F-150!

6.2 with a good old supercharger is ...... MONEY ! 700 HP easy peasy. And reliable.

 

[SoCalDave]

Currently acquiring parts for my next mod/tune on my LSA. Looking forward to a 20% gain to the rear wheels.

 

[LargeOrangeFont]

You're killin me Smalls...

What's the first available option any LS owner HAS to do to his engine??

A fucking oil catch can!!!

There are.more TSB's on the LS using oil than any other engine on the planet. There are multiple class action lawsuits on this issue!

A crappy PCV system, poorly designed valve covers, super thin rings all contribute to the well documented excessive oil usage this thing has has since day one.

Add all this to the fact you have to spin the LS high to make real power, and you have an engine that sucks oil like no other.

Thanks for the laughs guys. Carry on!

That’s all you got? It uses oil?

The first mod to pretty much any modern car is adding a catch can. They ALL have undersized PCV systems. And drink oil through them.That is not a problem unique to LS engines.

Spinning ‘high’ to make power? - demonstrably false and in OE applications they make peak power at a lower RPM than comparable DOHC engines.

Next you’ll try to tell the class they don’t turn enough RPM...