Boat Brokers Lake Havasu crooks???

[Feelin Nauti]

Wife and I went boat shopping, we were looking for a small tritoon and stopped in at boat brokers lake havasu. We found a veranda tritoon that we liked and sat down with a salesman named Morgan. Morgan proceeded to print out a nada value sheet for the toon. When reviewing it both my wife and I knew right away something was amiss. We thanked him for his time and went to lunch. We researched the year make and model and confirmed the boat we were looking at was largely misvalued by Morgan on the nada sheet he gave us.
We found the company brochure for the year make and model and indeed many items Morgan had listed as options were indeed included in the standard package for the toon, furthermore he quoted the toon as a Vertex series, when in fact it was a VP series as confimed by Veranda themselves by the vin on the toon. Thats a huge difference in base value to say the least.
After lunch we went back to discuss with Morgan the errors in his valuation nada sheet and he looked me right in the eye and said "thats how we run our valuations" incredible, unsuspecting and less knowledgable boaters would make good victims in this situation. We reviewed what we confirmed was standard items to his add on options and made an offer that was still above high retail, he took it to his sales mgr/finance mgr and never even call the owner of the toon for our offer, he just returned and said the offer was unacceptable. and was rejected, in the time for him to walk five feet and return we never saw either of them pick up the phone to call the owner with our offer.
Incredible !! the registration on the toon is from Oregon wonder if the owner knows they're not getting notified of offers?

their high retail evaluation came out to $ 74,425.00 yet our high retail priced correctly came out to $ 48,885.00 huge difference

Are all boat dealers like this? or is this place just that special? I think they got pissed dealing with someone who was smart enough to research the boat rather then someone who is overcome with excitementt and not paying attention. Anyone else had experience with this dealer getting the same results ?

 

[sintax]

well mistake 1 was entertaining discussion of a "nada value". Thats the most ridiculous thing out there, and has zero application in todays world.

If that was the case, I should be buying a shit ton of $20,000 1990's schiadas.

 

[Waffles]

Its been a hot minute since weve had a good call out thread.

 

[Ace in the Hole]

Are all boat dealers like this? or is this place just that special? I think they got pissed dealing with someone who was smart enough to research the boat rather then someone who is overcome with excitementt and not paying attention. Anyone else had experience with this dealer getting the same results ?

First mistake you made was pulling into their lot... Their reputation is very easy to lookup online....as well as their markup on consignment boats they leave out to bake in the sun.. Everything on that lot is higher than giraffe pussy.

There is plenty of reputable dealers and brokers in Havasu....Preston, Ricky etc...

 

[Havasu blue label]

Horrible co

 

[crzy2bealive]

Heard a lot of bad things about that place. Not sure how they stay a float.


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[riverroyal]

And away we go…….

104500 takes my toon. Special Monday noon price

 

[Todd Mohr]

I bought a boat from them in May, smooth transaction, they were very transparent with information. NADA is just not accurate for a true retail value, it sucks if you are financing.

 

[ONE-A-DAY]

The boats they have on the lot never move and just bake in the sun for months, those that are out there are some pretty crappy ones to begin with.

 

[Todd Mohr]

They were busy delivering boats the morning I picked up mine, But some of the boats have been there a while. The one I bought was never put online, it was only there a day or two.

 

[Feelin Nauti]

I bought a boat from them in May, smooth transaction, they were very transparent with information. NADA is just not accurate for a true retail value, it sucks if you are financing.

not financing much as i can put down of 70% so would not be a big loan

 

[Javajoe]

BOAT JOKERS

 

[rivermobster]

well mistake 1 was entertaining discussion of a "nada value". Thats the most ridiculous thing out there, and has zero application in todays world.

If that was the case, I should be buying a shit ton of $20,000 1990's schiadas.

x1000

 

[Bigbore500r]

Wife and I went boat shopping, we were looking for a small tritoon and stopped in at boat brokers lake havasu. We found a veranda tritoon that we liked and sat down with a salesman named Morgan. Morgan proceeded to print out a nada value sheet for the toon. When reviewing it both my wife and I knew right away something was amiss. We thanked him for his time and went to lunch. We researched the year make and model and confirmed the boat we were looking at was largely misvalued by Morgan on the nada sheet he gave us.
We found the company brochure for the year make and model and indeed many items Morgan had listed as options were indeed included in the standard package for the toon, furthermore he quoted the toon as a Vertex series, when in fact it was a VP series as confimed by Veranda themselves by the vin on the toon. Thats a huge difference in base value to say the least.
After lunch we went back to discuss with Morgan the errors in his valuation nada sheet and he looked me right in the eye and said "thats how we run our valuations" incredible, unsuspecting and less knowledgable boaters would make good victims in this situation. We reviewed what we confirmed was standard items to his add on options and made an offer that was still above high retail, he took it to his sales mgr/finance mgr and never even call the owner of the toon for our offer, he just returned and said the offer was unacceptable. and was rejected, in the time for him to walk five feet and return we never saw either of them pick up the phone to call the owner with our offer.
Incredible !! the registration on the toon is from Oregon wonder if the owner knows they're not getting notified of offers?

their high retail evaluation came out to $ 74,425.00 yet our high retail priced correctly came out to $ 48,885.00 huge difference

Are all boat dealers like this? or is this place just that special? I think they got pissed dealing with someone who was smart enough to research the boat rather then someone who is overcome with excitementt and not paying attention. Anyone else had experience with this dealer getting the same results ?

It's a double edged sword.

You're gonna want that NADA sheet optioned to the "moon" if your financing the boat, because the banks use NADA for valuation and only finance a % of NADA value. Some boats well for well ABOVE NADA these days....

As far as sales price - market dictates worth ultimately, research what other comps are selling for and pay what you feel is acceptable. NADA value does not have be the sales price of the boat. Do you have a realistic idea of what the boat is worth in the market, and area?

 

[pronstar]

Book value in this market is meaningless.

Even for automobiles, the market is changing so fast that dealers are basically setting their own values based on their market and experience.

The “books” can’t keep up.


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[jetur]

In "07" I traveled to their lot once from PHX to trade in a "93" Nordic scandia MCOB. I was trading it in on a "05" Nordic Rage MCOB. Just looking to go a little faster and get something newer. The newer Rage was hammered dogshit compared to the Scandia I already had. I pulled the Scandia home. The salesman and I had a difference of opinion about the condition of a nice boat.

 

[RiverDave]

They are a pretty large outfit that sells a good amount of inventory. I personally wouldn't list a boat with them for sale, but I wouldn't have a problem buying a boat from them, but I am pretty aggressive when it comes to buying, and know what I want and what I'll pay etc..

I know the owner Dean and he's a good old farm boy, that has done very well for himself over the years. I also know James their sales manager, he was formerly of JR Motors.

RD

 

[wzuber]

Book value in this market is meaningless.

Even for automobiles, the market is changing so fast that dealers are basically setting their own values based on their market and experience.

The “books” can’t keep up.


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Yep...it's basically like R.E. the latest like for like sale creates the newest comp. The boat business just doesn't have the MLS tracking etc. For verifiable valuation. It's all based by consumer/dealer $ agreement/sale price.

 

[outboard_256]

You offered $25k less than asking and were offended when they didn't call the owners with the offer? Especially in this market when the boat will probably sell for asking price.

 

[CLdrinker]

I have always said this.
Kelly and Nada’s opinion don’t mean shit to me.

If you are selling something I want and you bring up either of these. I simply say go sell it to them then.

The buyer sets the value, the seller decides if they will accept it or not.

 

[boatpi]

Dean Messemer is the owner I’ve known him for a while over 25 years haven’t had any dealings with him in the last three or four years. He’s got a huge outfit owns all the land his service hasn’t always been the best but I’ve never known him to do anything dishonest. The boats are definitely bake in the sun but then again that’s Havasu as far as value everything stated as above it’s an insane market right now. If you don’t need a boat right now I would wait until next spring.

I can’t see it getting any worse.

 

[2Driver]

well mistake 1 was entertaining discussion of a "nada value". Thats the most ridiculous thing out there, and has zero application in todays world.

If that was the case, I should be buying a shit ton of $20,000 1990's schiadas.

Yep, but in this case the poster is saying the opposite.

The seller manipulated NADA to his benefit by adding for “options“ that are not options and are already included in the retail price. That is a common mistake by newbie sellers on craigslist, but not for a professional boat seller. He knew what he was doing and it was a bold faced deliberate deception of value. IMO

 

[Feelin Nauti]

You offered $25k less than asking and were offended when they didn't call the owners with the offer? Especially in this market when the boat will probably sell for asking price.

uh no, the difference in my offer and their selling price was definately less than the 25k you guessed or assumed. the point of the post was how they manipulate the price and value sheet and couldnt care less if they are wrong....pricing out the wrong model is pretty slimy in my opinion. also as already stated in my post is we offered more than high retail....reading comprehension really helps if you apply yourself....and who said i was offended ? I simply walked away as it appears many have done before me...but thanks for your uniformed post....

 

[The Prisoner]

Keith Sayre sold me my boat There. Looong time ago. Can still barely see our signatures on the paperwork. Faded paperwork but not faded boating memories.

 

[Feelin Nauti]

Dean Messemer is the owner I’ve known him for a while over 25 years haven’t had any dealings with him in the last three or four years. He’s got a huge outfit owns all the land his service hasn’t always been the best but I’ve never known him to do anything dishonest. The boats are definitely bake in the sun but then again that’s Havasu as far as value everything stated as above it’s an insane market right now. If you don’t need a boat right now I would wait until next spring.

I can’t see it getting any worse.

granted it is insane right now but no need to fraudulently raise the values higher, nor is it beneficial to the customer to let the boat rot in the sun, i understand capitalism quite well and everyone tries to make as much as they can but the response I got when pointing out their errors was just pure "I dont give a shit type of attitude" and yes wife and i are content to wait for the market to soften but I will call out anyone who attempts to commit fraud knowingly, a better and honest response would to have had them redo the value sheet correctly but they had no intention or desire to do that

 

[FreeBird236]

granted it is insane right now but no need to fraudulently raise the values higher, nor is it beneficial to the customer to let the boat rot in the sun, i understand capitalism quite well and everyone tries to make as much as they can but the response I got when pointing out their errors was just pure "I dont give a shit type of attitude" and yes wife and i are content to wait for the market to soften but I will call out anyone who attempts to commit fraud knowingly, a better and honest response would to have had them redo the value sheet correctly but they had no intention or desire to do that

I can understand why you're a little pissed, but just move on, you actually probably got lucky. They may not be dishonest unless you classify price gouging as dishonest, they've had Covid pricing for years on below average quality merchandise.

 

[ONE-A-DAY]

And then there is Cowboys Marine and RV.............stellar place and their motorhomes all smell like ass.

 

[ClownRoyal]

I'm waiting for the market to take a dump and then buy a 2004 Magic Deckboat/496HO for what it is really worth - $65K.

 

[LargeOrangeFont]

I'm waiting for the market to take a dump and then buy a 2004 Magic Deckboat/496HO for what it is really worth - $65K.

Don't hold your breath. When new ones are around $200K to start, used deck boats will never be $65K again.

 

[Feelin Nauti]

I can understand why you're a little pissed, but just move on, you actually probably got lucky. They may not be dishonest unless you classify price gouging as dishonest, they've had Covid pricing for years on below average quality merchandise.

not pissed consider this a public service announcement as we were unaware of their reputation

 

[traquer]

Did they photoshop the Nada print out? Or just missquote the wrong data from Nada? Those are two different things.

 

[gqchris]

And then there is Cowboys Marine and RV.............stellar place and their motorhomes all smell like ass.

When I worked at LBYS, you could always assume one thing when the RV's arrived, Gas Tank Empty, Shitter FULL!

 

[gqchris]

Did they photoshop the Nada print out? Or just missquote the wrong data from Nada? Those are two different things.

Yup, Honestly, the only people that care about NADA are the loan processors sitting in their cubicle at the bank. It means NOTHING otherwise.

 

[Feelin Nauti]

Did they photoshop the Nada print out? Or just missquote the wrong data from Nada? Those are two different things.

misquoted i have the copy the gave me

 

[cold_one]

Yup, Honestly, the only people that care about NADA are the loan processors sitting in their cubicle at the bank. It means NOTHING otherwise.

Yet if you try and sell a boat over NADA people will make a call out thread against you and call you a crook.

Hope this guy doesn't try and buy a used truck anytime soon, the lounge will be full of these threads. I think he has been living under a rock and doesn't know about the pandemic. Hope he doesn't try and buy lumber either.

 

[Feelin Nauti]

Yet if you try and sell a boat over NADA people will make a call out thread against you and call you a crook.

Hope this guy doesn't try and buy a used truck anytime soon, the lounge will be full of these threads. I think he has been living under a rock and doesn't know about the pandemic. Hope he doesn't try and buy lumber either.

Wow you do not know me but make alot of assumptions about me negatively? I hope what ever anger issues you are having get better so that you can enjoy life as much as I do....see I can assume things about you but in the long run it doesnt serve anyone any good...how about we keep the character assassinations out of the thread and stick to the point i was making that a boat dealer was willing to ignore their errors and present an honest evaluation of the product they were trying to sell and even went so far as to say "thats how they have always done it" . and then i asked if my experience was normal for this dealer or maybe not ? if they had come back and said our prices are dictated by the current market i can live with that as I'm fully aware of the markets right now but thats not what happened but their will always be haters...flame suit on !

 

[riverroyal]

I'm waiting for the market to take a dump and then buy a 2004 Magic Deckboat/496HO for what it is really worth - $65K.

sold my 05 for 65k. That was 6 years ago. You will wait so long youll be dead before that happens

 

[merc_400r]

uh no, the difference in my offer and their selling price was definately less than the 25k you guessed or assumed. the point of the post was how they manipulate the price and value sheet and couldnt care less if they are wrong....pricing out the wrong model is pretty slimy in my opinion. also as already stated in my post is we offered more than high retail....reading comprehension really helps if you apply yourself....and who said i was offended ? I simply walked away as it appears many have done before me...but thanks for your uniformed post....

He got that $25k directly from your original post.

"their high retail evaluation came out to $ 74,425.00 yet our high retail priced correctly came out to $ 48,885.00 huge difference"

That huge difference you refer to is $25,540. Actually sounds like reading comprehension isn't your strong suit, when you even wrote it, hahaha.

Sounds like you walked into a dealer and try to low ball them, plan didn't work and when you couldn't afford the boat you came on here and made a call out thread. But now when everyone doesn't agree with you "NADA" price you are trying to back pedal. I really feel for small businesses that have to put up with people like this. They advertised a price for a used boat, if you can't afford it move on, no need to drag a company that can't defend them selves through the mud.

 

[Feelin Nauti]

He got that $25k directly from your original post.

"their high retail evaluation came out to $ 74,425.00 yet our high retail priced correctly came out to $ 48,885.00 huge difference"

That huge difference you refer to is $25,540. Actually sounds like reading comprehension isn't your strong suit, when you even wrote it, hahaha.

Sounds like you walked into a dealer and try to low ball them, plan didn't work and when you couldn't afford the boat you came on here and made a call out thread. But now when everyone doesn't agree with you "NADA" price you are trying to back pedal. I really feel for small businesses that have to put up with people like this. They advertised a price for a used boat, if you can't afford it move on, no need to drag a company that can't defend them selves through the mud.

more assumptions from someone who knows nothing about me nor what happend, show me in my post were i said what i offered ? in fact I said i offered more than high retail (again reading comprehension is NOT your strong suit) so he assumed incorrectly just like you are now on what i offered but thats you right, display all the ignorance in your reading skills that you can its quite entertaining, if you think offering more than high retail is "low balling" well your entitled to your opinion. Where am I backpedaling? have i changed anything in my original post? said anything different that was in my original post? please point this out to me ? who said I was looking for people to agree with me ? more assumptions on your part I simply asked if my experience was normal or was it not, clearly it was on the normal side...per others comments...and I stated facts as per Veranda manufacturer verses what they quoted, is that my fault because I just dont throw my money out the door? if you think i could'nt afford the boat that is laughable too I just spend my money wisely and deal with honest and upright sellers, if the start of the transction is shit, my experience has taught me any follow up will be shit too.

 

[hallett21]

They’ve always been known to sell stuff on the expensive side and low ball you on the trade in.

I bet they have to make a minimum of 20% to justify the space a consignment boat takes up.

After all they are a business and are there to make money. We may look at boats as our pride and joy while they just see dollar signs. Storage, HVAC and electricity all cost money. If they are moving product I don’t see why they would change their business model.

If you want VIP treatment Horizon, MOM, OD1 and the like are what you’re looking for.

As far as valuation I believe it’s on the buyer to do their due diligence. Which sounds like you did. If the owner said I won’t take a nickel under X. Well then they won’t call the owner unless your offer is X + 20%.

Hope you find what you’re looking for [emoji1303]


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[Havasu blue label]

it Will come back down deck boats for 60 and and property values in havasu reset you will start hearing at breakfast I should of saved more money from realtors . Keep trying to convince yourself it’s ok

 

[outboard_256]

uh no, the difference in my offer and their selling price was definately less than the 25k you guessed or assumed. the point of the post was how they manipulate the price and value sheet and couldnt care less if they are wrong....pricing out the wrong model is pretty slimy in my opinion. also as already stated in my post is we offered more than high retail....reading comprehension really helps if you apply yourself....and who said i was offended ? I simply walked away as it appears many have done before me...but thanks for your uniformed post....

You know the only times NADA prices come into the conversation at all is when your asking for a loan. Sounds like you couldn't pay the asking price in cash and asked for a loan. The guy brings out the NADA guide to show you what they can offer. You storm out unable to pay that price. You come back a few hours later with a lower NADA guide price. This actually hurts your case as a common trick dealers do is inflate the NADA price with "add-on's" that the loan company can't verify since its not in the VIN. He is trying to get you a higher loan amount by saying its $75k. But you come in saying its only worth $50k (which the bank will only loan you 80% on) and he laughs at your offer. He is trying to help you out by getting a higher loan so you can afford the $75k price but instead you make a big deal again. He probably says "Look pal, we didn't cry when you came in earlier and couldn't afford the boat and walked out, we aren't going to cry this time." You went home made this thread literally calling them "crooks" in the title and siting only NADA price guides as your "facts" against them.

 

[Bobby V]

As far as valuation I believe it’s on the buyer to do their due diligence. Which sounds like you did. If the owner said I won’t take a nickel under X. Well then they won’t call the owner unless your offer is X + 20%.

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Yep. 25 years ago I let Boat Brokers sell my boat. We agreed on a price and they would get whatever they could. I got a call a week later telling me it was sold. Never asked how much they got. Not sure if they still sell the boats this way

 

[guest hs]

Wow just wow that’s all I can say!

 

[GOTTBoat]

“Boat Brokers Lake Havasu crooks?”

“…how about we keep the character assassinations out of the thread and stick to the…”

I think it’s a little late for that lol

 

[MonkeyButt70]

I have a saying that holds true more times than not. “ Rejection is Protection” and it works for most things when they are not right.

 

[Gonefishin5555]

I've always assumed they can pull those pricing guides up on their computer and add/subtract any % they want to the base price. Its just a tool to manipulate the numbers usually to their advantage. I don't see why it even went in that direction. Just tell them to skip the Bs and offer $60K or whatever you thought was a fair price. My rule is I don't even bother showing up unless I have some kind of price range from them on the item I'm interested in. So if its not in the ad or I can't get that info over the phone I don't go.

 

[Justfishing]

If you went in to a restaurant and your hamburger was supposed to come with fries and a drink. But when you get the bill it charges extra for the fries and drink would you say something or just pay the bill?

If a business is going to use NADA as a pricing guide then they should use it appropriately. A business is free to set whatever price it wants but it shouldnt use NADA to fraudulently misrepresent the value per NADA.

Knowingly inflating the NADA guide to get a higher loan is fraud. A business that promotes that is unethical.

A business should present fair and accurate data. If you dont agree with the NADA value then dont use it.

 

[stephenkatsea]

Maybe not the best place to sell on consignment. Seems much of their inventory is often owned by BBs.

 

[2FORCEFULL]

Heres the real deal, and how sales work... the owner can ask what ever they want... the buyer has to decide what it's worth.... nada is ridiculous... if you make and offer and it's what you would pay.... doesn't make them crooks if they say no... the tool the buyer has, show numerous boats that are the same and their price... I read the thread and never seen the make , model and year.. so to justify your remark that the boat is only worth 50 ,and they are crooks for not accepting your offer.... could you show where they are selling for 50k???